Project Mayhem version 2.0

[Vicinity]

As some of you may have followed my chronicles of trying to get my car running, I have some unfortunate news.

As of yesterday, I had the car 100% complete and ready to go. I started her up and she didn't turn over once before starting. That was actually rather nice. I took her out for a drive, nice straight stretch of road out in front of the shop, got to about 20 and I lost compression, had no power. Had to limp it back into the shop. First thing I did was pop the valve covers off. I was greeted with the pleasant sight of a creamy white foam in the valve covers. Water in the oil. I drove that engine a good 4 miles. I sat there and thought to myself, what would PT.com do? The answer? A nice little 5.3l or 6.0l, whatever I can find at a reasonable price. So today, I'm off surfing the junkyards to find my next powerplant. Wish me luck.

I'll leave you with this, the last time she'll have a SBC in her ever, ever again.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/20120619_120623_242-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/20120619_130517_439-1.jpg

[Vicinity]

Alright, my choices are:

LS1 (Gto, 56k miles) complete (all accessories + harness and computer [everything]) $2200
LS1 (Camaro, more miles, forgot the number) not complete (all accessories + cut harness and computer) $1600
6.0 LQ (100~k miles) not complete (all accessories + cut harness and computer) $1600
5.3l (variety miles) complete (everything) (acc harness computer) $1000

With a budget of $4000-$5000 (including a T56 I need to buy eventually), what would you choose? I'm leaning toward that GTO motor, but it'll eat a big part of my budget.

[craigs73]

gto motor......its all aluminium unlike your 6.0 and 5.3 and it is complete ready to go....better jump on that before someone else does

[Vicinity]

Well, I'm buying an engine at the end of today, so hopefully it won't be gone by then.

[cencalc6]

Go for the GTO Engine......good luck with the rest of the build,your Car looks very nice.

[Vicinity]

Didn't have a chance to pick it up today. But I'll be knocking at the door tomorrow morning!


Go for the GTO Engine......good luck with the rest of the build,your Car looks very nice.

Thanks!

[andrewb70]

Welcome to the 2.0 club....

I would lean towards the biggest displacement, aluminum block engine that you can find. The GTO LS1 is a good option or you might want to check out a 5.3L aluminum engine.

Andrew

[Vicinity]

Welcome to the 2.0 club....

I would lean towards the biggest displacement, aluminum block engine that you can find. The GTO LS1 is a good option or you might want to check out a 5.3L aluminum engine.

Andrew

They don't have any aluminum 5.3's. I like this junkyard because they're literally 2 miles down the street from the shop I'm working on my car in.

Quick question if anyone sees it, I know the Fbod oil pan needs modification to fit (with setback mounts??), can a gto pan be worked over the same way?

[andrewb70]

..... can a gto pan be worked over the same way?

No. The GTO is has a sump in the front.

Andrew

[Vicinity]

No. The GTO is has a sump in the front.

Andrew

Ack. So it appears the GTO engine will already be more costly to swap.

[andrewb70]

Ack. So it appears the GTO engine will already be more costly to swap.

There are guys that want the GTO pans for swaps into Nissans and Fords. You can easily sell it.

Andrew

[Vicinity]

There are guys that want the GTO pans for swaps into Nissans and Fords. You can easily sell it.

Andrew

Oh, really? Ok, that's actually pretty cool, then.

I'm tallying up this, so I'm at $2650 for the GTO engine (assuming a straight swap for the oil pan), and $2550 for the Camaro (including a $950 new harness from Speartech). Both would need PCM reflashed, etc, so I'm not tallying that right now.

As long as the GTO accessory drive would fit, it'd be golden.

[andrewb70]

Whatever number you come up with, tack on an extra 1000-1500 and you will be close...LOL

Andrew

[Vicinity]

Whatever number you come up with, tack on an extra 1000-1500 and you will be close...LOL

Andrew

Hence why I'm not tallying. :rotfl:

[Vicinity]

One more quick question, does the harness have to be reworked or will it fire with just the vats delete?

[Vicinity]

Due to unforseen circumstances, I didn't get the engine today. I'll be waiting at the office door tomorrow morning to get it. They threw in a flywheel and knocked $100 off the price.

It comes with a 3 month warranty, so my goal is the have the car in working order in 90 days.

I hope the lead times on PCM reprogramming aren't too wild.

[MonzaRacer]

so you have a carb, why not try a carb , msd ignition, some reasonably priced headers and a pan swap. And cant traditional SBC trannys be mated to LSx? I mean gee whiz one reason I have not even gave LSx a look for either of my cars is because it costs so dang much. I mean its great some people can swing it but after engine,trans,parts, mods for parts to fit my cars we are talking 5k to 10k range and I dont really want to have that much in BOTH cars at first and be able to drive it.
So many people keep harping on LSx yet I see the prices NOT coming down at all and if anything going UP. I mean God help me but $850 to $1000 headers? Please its bad enough that swap sbc headers for my Monza are now up to almost $500, makes me glad I have my little tig welder,,Ill figure out tubing and rebuild what I need ,,or design new ones and build them.
But good luck which ever way you go.
Was wondering,,,why not figure out issue with old engine,,,might be simple fix. Seen many an engine that got ran with antifreeze for several days before owner found it and they lived after fixes.

[Vicinity]

so you have a carb, why not try a carb , msd ignition, some reasonably priced headers and a pan swap. And cant traditional SBC trannys be mated to LSx? I mean gee whiz one reason I have not even gave LSx a look for either of my cars is because it costs so dang much. I mean its great some people can swing it but after engine,trans,parts, mods for parts to fit my cars we are talking 5k to 10k range and I dont really want to have that much in BOTH cars at first and be able to drive it.
So many people keep harping on LSx yet I see the prices NOT coming down at all and if anything going UP. I mean God help me but $850 to $1000 headers? Please its bad enough that swap sbc headers for my Monza are now up to almost $500, makes me glad I have my little tig welder,,Ill figure out tubing and rebuild what I need ,,or design new ones and build them.
But good luck which ever way you go.
Was wondering,,,why not figure out issue with old engine,,,might be simple fix. Seen many an engine that got ran with antifreeze for several days before owner found it and they lived after fixes.

I'm just tired of messing with it. It may very well be in perfect working order and it's something small I can't figure out. I've been playing with it for damn near a year now, and I still can't figure it out. I really don't know a ton about SBC's. I do know a little more about LS engines, as I've owned one and worked on it before. I'd honestly be more comfortable with one sitting under my hood at this point. I'm gonna try and offload the 400 cheap, so someone might really luck out and it was just my stupidity and impatience.

[Vicinity]

Oh. As of right now, this is my parts list:


Griffin Aluminum Radiator $300 Summit
LS1 Fan and Shroud $150 Ebay?
Griffin Wiring Harness for Fan $100 Summit
Rick's Camaro EFI Tank $550 Rick's Camaro
Engine $2100

PCM Reprogram $150 PSI
Wiring Harness $450 Speartech

T56
Clutch Kit LS7 $450-500
Driveshaft $ Cost of service
Crossmember $80+ Cost of service
Clutch Master Plate $80 ATS

[Vicinity]

Day One

Today's update, I got the engine, paid $2000, it's actually a 54k mile engine. Ordering a new harness and computer from PSI, I talked with the owner, Jon, who seems like a very knowledgeable guy. Plan to clean the engine up a little, it's REALLY dirty.

I need to figure out what oil pan I'm gonna use, whether Fbody or one made for this application. Also, any opinion on engine mount plates? I'm going to run manifolds for now, I'm 100% just trying to get the engine ready to fire, longtubes will be something toward the end of the summer.

61295

61296

61297

:)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[acegto]

One step closer!

[geberhard]

so you have a carb, why not try a carb , msd ignition, some reasonably priced headers and a pan swap. And cant traditional SBC trannys be mated to LSx? I mean gee whiz one reason I have not even gave LSx a look for either of my cars is because it costs so dang much. I mean its great some people can swing it but after engine,trans,parts, mods for parts to fit my cars we are talking 5k to 10k range and I dont really want to have that much in BOTH cars at first and be able to drive it.
So many people keep harping on LSx yet I see the prices NOT coming down at all and if anything going UP. I mean God help me but $850 to $1000 headers? Please its bad enough that swap sbc headers for my Monza are now up to almost $500, makes me glad I have my little tig welder,,Ill figure out tubing and rebuild what I need ,,or design new ones and build them.
But good luck which ever way you go.
Was wondering,,,why not figure out issue with old engine,,,might be simple fix. Seen many an engine that got ran with antifreeze for several days before owner found it and they lived after fixes.

I think you have been spending too much time on Pro-touring high dollar build threads :D I am surprised more people here are not buying complete cars and parting them out to net a zero cost powertrain plus extra change in your pocket if you buy wisely and re-sell the parts from the car. Sure the market for LS1's is hot, and the price you have on that GTO setup already out of the car is a killer deal. but the market for salvage or junked body 4th gens is not too bad 9I have been seeing them in the $2K-5K range with a lot of recouperable value. Do not want to murk the thread, but to illustrate, I picked up the beauty below cheap (bad clutch), and started parting out. IWth very little effort I have recouped most of the purchase price already and still have a long list of parts I am waiting to sell after I remove the powertrain. Thee are also other things you can use such as the big brake ls1 setup that is excellent and a fraction of the cost of other brake kits out there... Just something to think about. You can also utilize the radiator and dual fan from teh same donor car so further offload in costs...








Warning... hope this pic doe snot pollute the thread :)






https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/5Ga5F85Jd3I53L83Jdc4kd7fefa4acbf715e7-1.jpg

Nothing against the MSD Carb idea, but realistically why? Simplicity is great and all, but you can have a harness built along with PCM flashing done by someone for about $400 including performance mods. Cheaper than the MSD setup, you will have likely more power and gas saving as well.

Also from your list below, there are items you can get away without (I am focusing on keeping within your budget), and still work VERY well.

[geberhard]

BTW congrats on the GTo engine that is the direction I would go based on the options you gave. I Pmes you if you are interested in selling the GTO covers.

A couple suggestions to keep within your budget.

1- do not go with the stock manifolds; instead get these headers - about $399 - I have them on my 67, look amazing, work great!! http://www.dynatechheaders.com/m_camaro_67_69.html#


2-do not go with the EFI tank - really not needed in this iteration. Option two is you can re utilize yours and add a sump for about $50 plus welding cost

3- harness and PCM - ebay has several vendors, I am actually submiting another set for build and PCM reprog for my other project, cost is about $350 with the extra tuning and custom stuff

4- tranny - are you sold on going manual or flexible for an auo with overdrive? a lot of optins here (i.e. 4l80 or a built 700r are a fraction of the cost)

5- oilpan - hummer oil pan - you cna get it new for cheap (I think in the $150 range). Can modify depending of height\stance plan - so plus cost of someone that welds alum

6- mount plates you can get new on e-bay with stock or offset mount location for about $50 :)

Killer Camaro, good luck on the build :)

[Vicinity]

BTW congrats on the GTo engine that is the direction I would go based on the options you gave. I Pmes you if you are interested in selling the GTO covers.

A couple suggestions to keep within your budget.

1- do not go with the stock manifolds; instead get these headers - about $399 - I have them on my 67, look amazing, work great!! http://www.dynatechheaders.com/m_camaro_67_69.html#


2-do not go with the EFI tank - really not needed in this iteration. Option two is you can re utilize yours and add a sump for about $50 plus welding cost

3- harness and PCM - ebay has several vendors, I am actually submiting another set for build and PCM reprog for my other project, cost is about $350 with the extra tuning and custom stuff

4- tranny - are you sold on going manual or flexible for an auo with overdrive? a lot of optins here (i.e. 4l80 or a built 700r are a fraction of the cost)

5- oilpan - hummer oil pan - you cna get it new for cheap (I think in the $150 range). Can modify depending of height\stance plan - so plus cost of someone that welds alum

6- mount plates you can get new on e-bay with stock or offset mount location for about $50 :)

Killer Camaro, good luck on the build :)

I really appreciate all the info you gave.

The reason I'm on the fence on the headers, is because I have Ridetech's Tru Turn, and it SEVERELY limits me on both headers and an oil pan.

The EFI tank, I've tried cutting a used tank before, and it exploded. I'm very hesitant to sump out my tank, and a new one is roughly $250, I can get the Ricks Camaro tank for $550. I'm still on the fence on this one.

I'm selling the harness and PCM for about $250 (well it's listed) and Jon at PSI quoted me $700 for a brand new harness and brand new computer with his tune.

Totally have to have a T56, this is where I'm splurging my budget. Unfortunately, it's the hardest item to find, and appears it's going to be the most expensive... yay demand.

I'm so mixed on the Hummer pan. I've heard some horror stories on it because it hangs so low. It has me super nervous. Do you have any links to it being modified? If I could cut like an inch or so out of the bottom I'd be more relaxed, but I'd be puckered up driving it like that.

Here's the mount plates I've found from LS1Tech researching. http://carshop.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/74328/LS1GM I'm curious as to whether I should buy offset mounts to move the engine back or not, though.

I got your PM on the Fuel covers, I'd be up for selling them, but I have no idea what they're worth. I remember back in the day, I wanted Corvette covers on my 01 Camaro LS1, and they were crazy overpriced.

[Vicinity]

Trying to plan out my fuel system right now, I'm gonna go with a Tanks Inc setup, which is $450, and has an internal Walbro pump, rated to 450 hp, off that to a Vette Reg, and from there up the 3/8 body line to the rails.

Now, as I understand it, EFI requires spec'd hose and spec'd clamps. Does it just have to exceed a PSI rating? Or is there something else I need to look at? I'd really like to use some of this black braid nylon stainless line. It's basically stainless flex line with blaid nylon on top, so its safer to cut and handle. It's rated to 250 PSI and for all oils fuels and fluids. I found some EFI rated clamps on Jegs, I plan on using those.

If you're wondering why I don't use AN fittings, I don't want to invest in a 37* flare right now, I will at some future point, when I go back and make everything look good.

[Vicinity]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

While nothing too extravagent, I planned my fuel system for the update. Gotta love MSPaint.

[Vicinity]

Here's where were at. Going to get chains today to yank that old engine out, and going to try to test fit the new engine.

61500

61501

[ATOMonkey]

Interested in the autopsy on the old small block.

[twosaturns]

Interested in the autopsy on the old small block.
likewise. I bet it's a hairline crack in one of the heads. no big deal.

[Vicinity]

400 is out, a visual inspection shows no signs (no obvious cracks in the head or block), but the driver's side head is very oily and the copper spray I used is worn off. This is the same head that was giving me problems before and prompted the head gasket replacement.

I don't have the patience to tear the engine apart in this heat (95~ outside right now), but if I get a minute next week, I'll yank the heads back off and reinspect.

[Vicinity]

Heat is gone! So, Progress!

I got my MAST pan from Travis (Daytonayellaz), here it is bolted up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/20120713_165750_986-1.jpg

Test fit 1:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/20120713_182908_794-1.jpg

Everything fits great, except for the alt, the alternator output bolt (?) is preventing the driverside motor mount from resting completely.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/20120713_182923_554-1.jpg

Other than that, it's fine. Any recommendations?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/20120713_182933_211-1.jpg

[Vicinity]

According to the internet, who is an expert in everything, the GTO and Fbody Alternators mount in exactly the same spot. But the Fbody alt is actually slimmer, can anyone confirm this? As it doesn't appear to be a huge topic, I've spent about 8 hours trying to search for it every different way I could think.

[Vicinity]

Ok, the Fbody alternator is actually slightly smaller and the charging lug is located in a different spot, so it will indeed work.

Also, ordered my harness/pcm from PSI.

Now looking into tank options, Tanks Inc is still at the top of my list due to budget, etc.

[Vicinity]

Ordered the Tanks Inc unit, it's nice, although, you get what you pay for. The powdercoat on the tank is cheap and chipped in the mail. Not a big issue for me, but some might like to know. Also got my wiring harness in the mail, still waiting on the PCM.

Got a picture of the alternators, so if anyone needs to know, or is curious. This problem drove me nuts, so I hope it helps someone.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/20120722_114156_228-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/20120722_114209_210-1.jpg

[Vicinity]

Well, I can finally update my thread. Another nod to Travis, aka, Mr. Daytonayellaz, he hooked me up with that awesome Mast pan, now he has a Viper Spec T56 ready for me. Things have slowed down on this because of waiting for parts, so it didn't go as quickly as I hoped, but I still have about 30 days to meet my goal.

My PCM was lost in the mail, so PSI is sending me another which should be here this week. I've decided to go with a McLeod adapter housing for the Dodge speced Trans, and likely an LS7 flywheel. Also going with the Hooker headers since Ridetech used them on the 48hr Camaro and it cleared the Tru Turn. Ordering the final parts next week.

I'll need to get a driveshaft fabbed up with a Viper yoke, any recommendations?

[PhillipM]

I don't think your going to be happy with that fuel tank... Can you say not running below a 1/2 tank of fuel? If you can, return it and call Ricks for a VaporWorks tank. You will thank yourself everytime you DON'T have to put fuel in it to keep it above the evil half tank monster. Becuase it will actually work how it is supposed to. Just my opinion after doing it wrong for so many years. Okay that's all from me.

[Vicinity]

I would have gotten a Ricks Tank, but considering the cost of the tank rivals that of the cost of the engine, I cannot afford it. I'd rather have a car I can drive for a half tank than a car that sits on jackstands for another year. This tank has a tray in the tank, so it shouldn't be quite as bad as other tanks. I've heard that 1/2 empty thing about other tanks but not these. I realize they aren't going to be perfect, but it just needs to work.

[AintQik]

Dan, I'm sure there is someone local but I'm working in DC and going home to NJ on the weekends. I've got a guy up there that build all my driveshafts for cheap. 3.5" aluminum with all the good stuff is like $300. I think I paid $150 for the custom one in my 50.

[19,69camaro]

Dan,
How did the alternator fit and connect up? Did you need to modify the harness at all? Im also looking at getting a little more clearance but for different reasons. Im running a front steer rack and pinion and need to go over the top of it. Do you think there is extra room to do this?

The project looks great so far. I can't wait to see it up and running.
Aldin

[Vicinity]

Dan, I'm sure there is someone local but I'm working in DC and going home to NJ on the weekends. I've got a guy up there that build all my driveshafts for cheap. 3.5" aluminum with all the good stuff is like $300. I think I paid $150 for the custom one in my 50.

I don't mind paying some shipping for someone who knows what their doing. Mind PMing some contact info?


Dan,
How did the alternator fit and connect up? Did you need to modify the harness at all? Im also looking at getting a little more clearance but for different reasons. Im running a front steer rack and pinion and need to go over the top of it. Do you think there is extra room to do this?

The project looks great so far. I can't wait to see it up and running.
Aldin

Thanks.

Set back one inch, the GTO alternator will not clear, at stock position, it would likely be fine (can not confirm). The F-body alternator is a perfect swap (nothing require to change it out) and it cleared the subframe with barely enough room to run my pinky around it.

I bought a new harness from PSI for $499 and it fit perfect, everything was exact length and was plug and play. The harness was built for an F-body, so it had a 4 wire plug pre-installed, but only used one wire.

[armourmark]

Don't worry about the 1/2 tank comment, the tank you have is not like the spectra ones. The Tanks inc setup was developed by tanks inc in conjunction with aeromotive= no issues.

[Vicinity]

Almost ready to start the car. Waiting on O2 extensions I didn't think I would need, and some tubing to mount the MAF. Both are supposed to be here today. Once I get those, I'll be firing it and reassembling the front end. Hopefully I'll have a video to add tonight. Wish me luck, I'll inevitably need it.

[Vicinity]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/20121005_185444_39-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/20121005_185455_633-1.jpg

It's amazing what starting an engine can do to boost your energy into wanting to get a project done. SO CLOSE.

Checklist:
Clutch Pedal Tab
Serpentine Belt
Wiring Cooling Fans
Install Clutch Assembly
Install Trans
Fab Crossmember
Get Driveshaft shortened

Don't worry, I'm positive I can find a way to turn that list into a 100 things and make it take 3 more years. It's my specialty.

Also, I realized I met my goal. I got the car started within warranty. And I did it on budget. Yeeeeeeeah!!

Under $5k in on this build if I count the money I got selling the old engine and trans. :) I'm expecting to be right around $5k when I get her moving.

[Vicinity]

My first attempt at welding.

Inside the car.

With the carpet still installed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/20121022_181929_175-1.jpg

Only caught it on fire 4 times.

All that needs to be done is trans install and driveshaft shortened.

[Vicinity]

Look who decided to join the party!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/20121026_123919_360-1.jpg

Thanks Travis aka Daytonayellaz!

[daytonayellaz]

Look who decided to join the party!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/10/20121026_123919_360-1.jpg

Thanks Travis aka Daytonayellaz!

Your welcome Dan! Keep after it bro... your getting there:cheers: BTW... I love the sig! :thankyou:

[DJW32]

Nice update. Where can I find info about your suspension setup?

[Vicinity]

Nice update. Where can I find info about your suspension setup?

Here's the link to my old thread, which, I believe, was the last update for my suspension before I changed engines.

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?77914-Project-Viscosity-1968-Camaro

[rfalker1]

Its been a long time Dan, I see you have left the sbc community and went Ls!! I hope it works for the best for you my friend. Car is looking good by the way!!!

[69projectKAOS]

AWESOME!!!!! The car is looking killer, i wanna see a video of her running.! -Dom

[Vicinity]

Sorry I've been neglectful in updates, haven't really had a chance to button down and concentrate on the car.

Had my uncle come over and we got the T56 installed, I'm going to make my crossmember tomorrow. Then I take my measurements for my driveshaft and BAM! Hopefully that's all.

[bluesmoke]

Have you gotten around to hooking up your power steering yet?