Greetings! 6,500 MILES starting tomorrow!!!

[Moparposterchild]

Hi guys. I'm relatively new to this board, but I've lurked here from time to time. I was talking with the Optima guys a few weeks ago and they asked if I was gonna do Power Tour this year which I am. Then I proceeded to tell them about my entire trip and they said I needed to come on here and let you guys know about it because they say this community really responds to and supports guys who build their cars and really use them.

So, here's the deal. I'm doing Power Tour for the 6th time. The catch is, I live in Los Angeles and will be driving my car, not trucking it to Detroit. Me and my buddy Ted will be leaving LA tomorrow morning and will be Denver bound. 1,000 miles is the goal for tomorrow. Then Thursday on to at least Des Moines IA or further, and Friday we will be rolling into Detroit. He and I did this trip two years ago, so we are not strangers to long road trips. Back the I was in my 1970 Duster and he was in his 1964 Dodge 330.

From there we will do the entire Power Tour and once that's done I will be traveling to a couple of places in Texas and New Orleans LA for business. One day off in New Orleans and then we will be driving back from New Orleans all the way to Los Angeles. I also plan on participating in whatever autocross and racing events that may be part of the Power Tour.

I map-quested the trip and it works out to be around 6,500 miles over the course of about two weeks. I'm seriously pumped for the trip. Been waiting all year for this.

Now for my car... This year I will be driving my 1972 Dodge Charger SE. It's set up to be very versatile. Here's the basics:

392 Fuel Injected new-gen HEMI
Viper 6-speed manual trans
RMS Alterktion front suspension
QA-1 adjustable coil-overs front and rear
Dana 44 rear with 4.10 gears
RMS Street Lynx 4 link rear
Wilwood 6 piston brakes front and 4 piston rear
Foose Challenger wheels 19's front and 20's rear
Micheline PS2 tires 285/35/19 front and 335/30/20 rear

Car has A/C, rack and pinion steering, navigation, satellite radio, bluetooth, etc. All the creature comforts.

I'm anticipating close to 20 MPG. Car is on the dyno as we speak getting a final tune and hp/tq numbers.

Here are some pics... see ya on the road!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/1201phr13z1972dodgecharger-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/1201phr05z1972dodgecharger-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/1201phr04z1972dodgecharger-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/1201phr06z1972dodgecharger-1.jpg

[wiedemab]

Sounds like an awesome trip! Best of luck. The car looks great too! Be sure to post some pics of it all covered in bugs!

[mpozzi]

Love it, too!! You're six Power Tours ahead of me.

Mary Pozzi

[BonzoHansen]

Love it, too!! You're six Power Tours ahead of me.

Mary Pozzi

me too. we got to fix that.


well, I did the last 2 stops in 2006 but that don't count!

[Bill Howell]

Welcome to this board KW, great to have you here. I Love your SE, looks a lot like mine except you took the vinyl top off. Sweet cars indeed. Have fun and be safe on the PT.

[Rick D]

Cool trip, so what would you be doing in New Orleans on business??:git: I love your builds and they are not Chevys! By the way love your music to!!!

[Ron.in.SoCal]

If it doesn't viloate the code, who is this Rick?

[DTM Racing]

Welcome to the board, I look forward to seeing you there!

[Rick D]

If it doesn't viloate the code, who is this Rick?

Kenny Wayne Shepherd!! http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/1201phr_1972_dodge_charger/index.html

[Moparposterchild]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

A trip like this would be normal without its hiccups and it seems the day has started with a few minor ones, but they have delayed our departure way longer than I'd hoped. As I write this I'm still in Los Angeles fixing my a/c unit. It's not the units fault... Yesterday the car was dyno tuned and put out a respectable 460hp to the rear wheels. I wasn't there but asked the tech over the phone to make sure th computer could see the a/c when I was turned on and up the idle so the car wouldn't stall and die. He obliged, but today I realized that in addition the computer needs to turn both cooling fans on when the a/c is engaged so that the system won't build up pressure and shut the compressor off. Right now we are wiring up some relays to remedy the issue. I have done the Power Tour in a car without a/c once. I've paid my dues and won't do it again!

My friends issue is slightly larger than mine. When we first pulled away thinking we were hitting the road, we got half way to the freeway and I wanted to turn back because of my a/c not blowing cold. When we did he and I both noticed his idle was really high... Like 2,200. When we pulled in the shop we found that he'd somehow lost fuel pressure. He's running a race prepped aluminum Keith Black Hemi, so it's not something we want to take any chances with. Right now we are searching for a new fuel pump.

I'm just hoping to get on the road at some point today. No matter how far behind we get, the trip will be a blast.

[Reckn8]

We were supposed to leave this am also. Had to have rearend rebuilt today, long story, we'll leave thursday. See ya in Detroit! Supposed to rain friday saturday I see.

[Moparposterchild]

4:14pm and I have ice cold a/c. We are searching for a fuel pressure regulator for my friends car. I wanted to leave at 5am. Looks like we will be lucky to be rolling by 6pm. Just in time for LA rush hour traffic!!

[RS_Customs]

Welcome to the site. Cool SE! Should be a great trip.

Robert

[SparkyRnD]

awesome car, and sounds like a heck of a fun trip!

[LeighP]

Wow, what a trip...and in that car...brilliant!
Live the dream!

[rockytopper]

See ya at the Last Stop have a safe and fun trip...

[blue1968roadrunner]

Car looks good! Similar plans for my 68 Roadrunner, which I have to start for it to actually get finished, so I'm interested to see how it does on the trip and the track! Good luck, be safe, and have fun!

[Bigblue73]

Welcome Kenny and have a safe trip. We'll see you guys in St. Louis.

[SPCHIV]

Hey Kenny, this is Chiv. Parker and I won't be making the trip this year, too busy. I will be able to catch up with you in Arlington though. Be safe and have fun.

[J-440]

Yo Kenny, love your previous cars and especially this new one. 3rd gens look great when done right. On a side note, my wife is childhood best friends with your cousin Tiffany Fountain-Anderson. You ever in the Houston area, I'll show you my 68 and whip us up some jambalaya. Have a safe trip bro, and yeah I wanna see that thing covered in bugs also.

[*ryno*]

if you have any issues coming through the Joplin mo area. please let me know. i have a full shop. hopefully you'll have no more issues.
if you have not found your buddies needed parts, you may want to try bill at Hawaii racing in Simi valley.
safe travels

[*ryno*]

also , just a heads up. i just looked over the route from IL to Miami ok. they have you guys running through Carthage mo on hwy 96, they just closed that bridge down and its a mess, your better off staying on the interstate hwy 44 all teh way through Missouri.

[Jim Nilsen]

What? a little A/C gonna slow you down? "You know you gotta suffer if you wanna sing the blues"

Cool to have you aboard, awesome car. Even more awesome music!!!!

[Hydratech®]

Hey Kenny - remember this one of the Extreme Lee?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/kwspointinatbrakes2-1.jpg

I'm tickled that you also ran one of our systems on your 406 Duster, and now another on your '72 Charger:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/kws72charger-1.jpg

Let me know how we may be of further service in your future builds.

Thank you for choosing Hydratech!

Welcome to Pro-Touring.com - Have a good trip, and a also good time in Detroit (my ol' home town) - keep us posted :cheers:

[BuddyP]

Awesome car and wow what a cool trip! Hope to have mine done next spring. Heading up to Muskegon in the morning with the boy, maybe we'll see ya!

[Moparposterchild]

This has been a rough trip for me and Ted so far. His Keith Black Hemi blew up and we had to leave his car in Denver.

My 72 Charger is having serious vapor lock issues and we can't figure out how to remedy it. We replaced the pump today and the new one is doing the same. Best we can do is zip tie bags of ice and drive 40 miles at a time. We haven't even made it to the Power Tour yet. We are in Iowa right now. Gonna drive to champaign IL tonight when it's cool outside and meet everyone tomorrow . The only time we can drive any real amount of miles is at night when it's cool out.

My buddy Ted was thinking of adding an additional small 5-7 psi fuel pump ahead of the aeromotive one to help push the fuel along so no air build up in the original pump. I don't know if that'll do anything or not.

In retrospect I wish I'd had the tank modified and had the pump mounted inside, but that doesn't matter at this point. We are gonna take a look at it tomorrow with some fresh eyes and see what happens.

If you're curious the components are as follows.

The components are as follows:
392 3rd Gen Hemi fuel injected crate motor
Stock repro 72 gas tank with a return line
Aeromotive 750hp electric fuel pump mounted inline on passenger side frame rail after the aeromotive fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator is Mopar on the fuel rails running 58psi

[CarlC]

Try leaving the gas cap loose to allow air in.

After you get back, check this out. It's a great match for your setup http://www.vaporworx.com/

If you come out to another one of the Hotchkis track days you can check mine out.

Good luck.

[Moparposterchild]

Thanks for the suggestion, but we have drilled a hole in the cap and even run it without the cap with no luck.

[Hydratech®]

I remember this happened to Scott Gulbranson and Jody Bernard back in 2005 on the Hot Rod Power Tour while they were running Steve Sandlin's Chevelle. They actually got through it with some genuine hill billy engineering by rigging up an a cooler full of ice in the trunk and running a few coils of fuel line through the ice!

I dug up that old thread on Lateral-G.net (but all the pics have since been removed):

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=1133&page=2&highlight=vapor+lock


* One big fat cooler that will hold a few bags of ice
* Duct tape
* Long section of fuel line, and some hose clamps
* Some copper or aluminum tubing for better heat transfer in the ice?
* Not sure how you're going to get the fuel line in / out of the trunk

Project for the day! Git'r done LOL

I even sat on the side of an interstate for a few hours with Matt Delaney during the '06 Hot Rod Power Tour when the fuel pump failed in his monster supercharged Duster too! Seems like fuel systems never cross anybody's mind as a potential road trip problem, and then there you are on the side of the road. DOH!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/P1010053JPG-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/P1010049JPG-1.jpg

[diesel25lrs]

Did you guys get the fuel issue figured out? Good luck & remember your having fun! Lol...

[RS_Customs]

Did you guys check the filter when you had the pump off?

My buddy has a a1000 on his car and we kept having weird pressure drops and we kept thinking vapor lock, so we were trying all sorts of things to solve it. One of the times it was apart he pulled the filters and found they were clogged up with the coating he had used for inside the tank. These were the mesh AE filters. He washed them out and it ran great for a few days. Knowing that was the problem we dropped the tank out and had it acid cleaned and re-coated.

Not sure if your problem might be as simple as the filter, but worth a try.

Robert

[Denvervet]

If haven't been told probably return line taking engine heat into gas tank. If gas tank feels hot....that's your answer.
I feel for you I have been working for months to go and my big 572 in my camaro won't cool enough ...I feel your pain. Hoped to hook up in ok instead but looks like that's out now

[Moparposterchild]

I thought about that and felt the tank yesterday and it was pretty hot to the touch. Problem is trying to figure out what to do about it.

[EFI69Cam]

There are three ways for heat to get into the fuel:

from the fuel rails
from the exhaust
from the fuel pump

A return based fuel system sends the fuel on a constant heat gathering loop.

A returnless system can help with the first two, the returnless vaporworx system will help with all three.

On my BBC 69 Camaro I had the a1000 pump mounted on the rail with a return system just as you described, the pressure in the tank built up to the point that it caused the soldered on sump on the tank to fail. The fuel would boil inside the tank when I removed the cap. Hot fuel cavitates easier damaging the pump and generate more heat starting a downward death spiral.

For now you could insulate the fuel lines and tank anywhere they get close to the exhaust system.

[Denvervet]

Someone suggested cooling coils n the trunk. I'd be inclined to look into putting some sort of cooler on the return one...oil cooler type. Speedway motors in Lincoln is sort of nearby and outfit circle track cars with than sort of thing.

[Lomonte]

Well, did you hook up with the Tour?

[BCHALK22]

^^^????

[Moparposterchild]

Sooooo,

Here's the LONG story. Forgive me for the long post.

We lanned on leaving at 5am Wednesday May 30th. Ted called the night before and told me we needed to push it back to 10am. OK. I arrived at 10am and the guys at the shop were finishing up a few things on his car. I took mine for a spin to make sure everything was in working order. My A/C wasn't working right so we spent the next several hours diagnosing that issue. Finally got that one figured out, so we thought. There was a loose wire in the a/c system that tells the compressor to come on when the unit is turned on. Wire was reconnected. All seemed well.

Around 3pm we started to roll out. We got about half way to the freeway and my a/c was blowing warm air. I called Ted and we decided to turn back. As we headed back, his idle jumped up to 2,500 rpm and he seemed to be losing fuel pressure. We went back to the shop, diagnosed my problem, which was both cooling fans weren't coming on when the a/c was on and therefore not allowing the compressor to stay on for very long. We wired up a quick fix relay to force the fans on when the a/c was switched on and all was well. In the meantime the guys were swapping out a fuel pressure regulator, and eventually a fuel pump on Ted's car, finally to find out he also had a bad fuel pressure gauge that was giving us false readings. Once all that was done it was about 6:30pm and we finally hit the road for real.

The first evening of driving was great. Everything went well. We drove from LA to St. George UT without issue. All seemed well and we were looking forward to a great trip. We arrived in UT around 2am, found a hotel and went to bed.

We woke up the next morning prepared to head out and Ted went to start his car and had no spark. After a few minutes of me searching on my phone, I found an Autozone with a MSD box in stock. We bought it, installed it in the parking lot and off we went. After driving for a little while we arrived at the last fuel stop before this well know stretch of highway that spans 111 miles with no cell service or services whatsoever... no gas, lodging, anything except a rest stop with bathrooms. We fueled up, I noted that I was getting 24mpg, and we headed down into the danger zone. Now, I have done this drive several times between Denver and L.A. and I always call my office and let them know we are entering this stretch of highway and if they don't hear from me within 3 hours to call for help. We made it about 60 miles in and all of a sudden my car began surging and starving for fuel. It was close to 100 degrees out and my car was vapor locking. We pull to the shoulder to check the fuel pump and let it cool off. Once my car has cooled down enough to start, we find that Ted's starter has gone out and won't turn the motor over. After being stranded on the side of the road for a couple of hours a cop pulls up. The friendly cop pushed Ted to see if we can get his car to start in gear, but it didn't work. He pushed Ted up to the one rest stop and called us a tow truck. AAA Premium came in handy.

We had the car towed to Grand Junction CO and made a few phone calls and found "the Mopar guy" in town named Dean. Dean opened up his shop to us and helped us for the next two and a half days as we worked on Ted's car. Long story short, we were way behind, but Dean really helped us out big time. We replaced the MSD box again, went through 4 distributors (every one in town), put a new starter in, and finally found a really bad short in the wiring in the engine bay that kept causing the pickup in the distributors to go out. During all of this I was searching around town for a new fuel pump but no one had the right one, so the best I could do was some heat wrap and cross my fingers. Finally, 2.5 days later Ted's car was running and we were on our way again.

We headed down the road and Ted's car was running great. We got about 40 miles outside of town and my car vapor locked again. I pulled into a gas station, bought some ice, an ice chest, and ziplock bags. I decided to put ice in a ziplock and zip tie it to the fuel pump on the passenger side frame rail. That would get me 30-40 miles at a time. It sucked, but was all I could do for now. Our next gas stop was fine, I zip tied another bag of ice and headed down the road. I pulled out ahead of Ted and kept looking for him in my rearview but he never came into sight. Finally he called and told me he was on the side of the road and his motor had blown. There was a big BANG followed by a big cloud of white smoke and it was dead. We called AAA again and waited for 2 hours on the side of the road. The tow guy finally called and said he'd be at least another hour, so we hid the keys and told him where to find the car and the keys and we headed down the highway.

By this time it was evening and raining so the temps were cool enough for the car to not vapor lock. I made a call to a good friend, Dave Hall at Restore a Muscle Car in Lincoln, NE and he had a fuel pump, so we decided to hammer down all the way to Lincoln. I drove the whole way and rolled into my buddy's parking lot at 5am, tossed and turned in the drivers seat for a couple of hours, maybe got one hour of sleep and Dave showed up at 9am. We put the car on the lift, swapped out the pump and were on the road again quickly... 120 miles later we were on the side of the road vapor locking.

At this point we already missed the first day in Detroit and this was the day everyone was driving to Muskegon. We had limped the car to Iowa City and were in the parking lot of an Autozone at 3:30pm. Finally we decided exhaustion and sleep deprivation had gotten the best of us. We decided to get a hotel room, sleep until 9:30pm and drive overnight to Champaign IL to finally meet up with the Power Tour. We were on the road by 10:30pm and arrived at the hotel in Champaign around 2am. Driving at night was not a problem.

The next day we called around to some shops to see if anyone would help us or let us use their facilities. After being rejected by four different places we finally found a place called Peter B's. Peter was fantastic and helped us all day long at his shop and we came up with this temporary fix.

The end result was this:

Problem:
The pump is mounted inline and it's mounted on the passenger side frame rail right around the center of the door. It's too far away from the tank, so it's having to work too hard to get the fuel and the temps weren't helping things either. The main fuel line is a braided stainless hose which isn't good for heat either. Another potential issue is the main line and the return line are two different sizes and they ideally should be the same size. The main and return are also close to the exhaust by the tank and near the headers at the front of the car which isn't good for keeping the fuel in the lines cool either.

Our temporary solution:
Ted decided to try adding an additional 5psi pump right after the tank to feed the primary pump on the frame rail so that it wouldn't have to work so hard to get the fuel. The primary pump could then focus on just delivering the fuel to the engine. We wrapped the lines with insulation to keep additional heat out.

From this point forward we drove the car without incident. I made it to the next two Power Tour stops and then drove the car to my concerts in Austin, Houston and New Orleans.

Somewhere between Dallas and Austin one of my A/C hoses developed a leak. It just so happened that the guys from Classic Auto Air came to my show in Austin. They tried to fix it on the spot, but we didn't have the proper materials or tools with us to get the job done. I drove the car with no A/C in the humid heat and pouring rain to Houston and New Orleans and decided to ship the car to Classic Auto Air in Dallas to have their latest and greatest unit installed in the car and then have it shipped back to L.A.

All in all we drove over 4,000 miles and had a lot of fun, but it was a lot of work too. I've done the Power Tour 5 or 6 times now, pretty much without incident so I guess it was our turn to have an issue.

I'm currently having a tank made with the pump mounted inside the tank and we are going to completely redo the fuel system. The thing about this kind of problem is you'll never know about it unless you drive your car a couple of hundred miles in the heat. This car has never done more than drive to shows and around town.

This trip was a true shakedown and any potential flaws in the car were exposed. All will be addressed and fixed which will give me peace of mind for the future.

[diesel25lrs]

Kenny,
Sounds like you learned some valuable lessons, the really hard way...and as you said-"had a lot of fun" is the main thing to take away! I too hope to do the Power Tour someday but will make sure to learn from you and shake out my car prior to attempting such a feat! Hope to run into you next year on the tour!

[TheJDMan]

Just curious, what actually happend to Ted's car?

[ndians68]

I wondered why i did not see this car at the show in chamaign, glad you all made it, even with all the problems, that is the true way to do a power tour!

[Moparposterchild]

Just curious, what actually happend to Ted's car?

We don't know yet. The car hasn't made it back to LA yet, so we haven't been able to tear into it.

[Moparposterchild]

Kenny,
Sounds like you learned some valuable lessons, the really hard way...and as you said-"had a lot of fun" is the main thing to take away! I too hope to do the Power Tour someday but will make sure to learn from you and shake out my car prior to attempting such a feat! Hope to run into you next year on the tour!

I learned a lot more about fuel systems, that's for sure. I know I should have taken the car out prior to the Power Tour, but I've been working nonstop lately and didn't have the time to just drive for a couple hundred miles to see what would happen. That's the thing with the vapor lock issue... Ive driven this car around town and to shows, but it never would have reared its ugly head without some significant mileage and heat. Live and learn. Next year I guess I'll just have to plan an extra week prior to the PT to give whichever car I take a proper shakedown.

[talbotdd]

Kenny,

Sorry to hear that you had so many issues along the way. If it makes you feel any better we battled our cars the whole way as well. My build only had 18 miles on it when we set off, so I should have known better.

I guess we both just ran out of luck this year. Me, my father, and my brothers have done the tour each of the past 4 years with no issues at all. This year we had nothing but problems. We missed Detroit because of his starter going out. We missed Muskegon due to the shift linkage coming apart inside his trans. We missed Champaign due to my car blowing a tire because my tie rod sleeve came loose. We made it to our hotel at each city around 11 each night after spending every day in some parking lot fixing something.

We actually arrived at our hotel in Champaign just minutes before you pulled in and immediately popped the hood. We had wondered at the time what was wrong with yours - now we know lol.

The next morning we drove mine over to Firestone to get it aligned and the brakes locked up. We spent all day tracking down a new master cylinder and swapping it out since it wasn't quite the same size or fittings. At that point we just packed it up and limped back home to Ohio without ever making a Power Tour stop on time. Made it home at 3am.

Oh well, it all makes for better stories right? I am pretty sure we will remember this tour even more than the ones that went smoothly.

I even ordered a shirt for my dad for father's day that says "Break Down Tour 2012" with a picture of both our cars up on jack stands in an abandoned parking lot with us underneath.

Glad you made it to part of the tour at least and arrived home safe - that's the most important thing.

Hope to see you again next year!

-Dustin

[Quickboat]

Great thread, I learned a bunch of what can and will happen on the road. I guess no matter how much time any money we put into our machines, the unexpected happens. I hope to do one of these tours someday with my brother and now see that the fun and chances of failure multiplies by the number of friends that join the quest! But it is all about bonding with friends and machines on an unknown adventure. Men (women), machines and adventure, this goes back as far as the human know how to build the machine!

Dustin, we're neighbors!

[BuddyP]

Yes deffinatly great thread. Will give me some items to check out on my project here also. Glad all in all it went well Kenny, A long drive across the US is on my bucket list. The drive between LA to east side of the Rocky's has got to be Awsome!

[diesel25lrs]

Happy birthday Kenny! Get yourself a Rick's stainless tank as a present! You won't be dissapointed! Lol...

[SparkyRnD]

This year we had nothing but problems. We missed Detroit because of his starter going out. We missed Muskegon due to the shift linkage coming apart inside his trans. We missed Champaign due to my car blowing a tire because my tie rod sleeve came loose. We made it to our hotel at each city around 11 each night after spending every day in some parking lot fixing something.

The next morning we drove mine over to Firestone to get it aligned and the brakes locked up. We spent all day tracking down a new master cylinder and swapping it out since it wasn't quite the same size or fittings. At that point we just packed it up and limped back home to Ohio without ever making a Power Tour stop on time. Made it home at 3am.


Now THAT is what makes a trip like this cool. Spending time with your brother's and dad working on cars and driving around part of the country, those are the things that you will always remember. While many people love the tour, how truly memorable is it to cruise along with a few thousand other cars? How great of a story is it? No where near as cool, funny, interesting as the experiences / problems you ran into. Those are the makings of good stories and great memories.

[talbotdd]

Sparky,

We have actually had that same discussion a few times since we got back. It was frustrating at the time, but looking back at our "adventure" it was probably the most memorable Power Tour we have been on.

It is more about the relationships you build than the cars.


-Dustin

[SparkyRnD]

Many people think it's about the final destination, rather than the journey. When I drove places with my family as a child, I can only really remember the drive there, much more so than the time spent at X location. I remember the fights, the laughs, and the fun during the drive. It was in my 20's or so that i began to realize that the destination can be anywhere, and could even not be reached, but if you have fun along the way, you'll usually remember that more than anything. Good on ya for making a fun trip!

[Motorcitydak]

So what are you doing for a fuel pump now? I have never heard a bad thing about a Walboro 255, that is what I plan on using. After hearing all the problems with things like vapor lock, excessive noise, vibration and very limited life span of the external pumps, not to mention the cost, I do not see why anyone runs them