Scissor or Lambo door hinges?

[boodlefoof]

Hi all,

I've been considering setting up my Datsun Z project with a "scissor" style or "lambo" door action.

I've been looking online at kits to do this and I can't understand the cost. Honestly... $1000+ for a pair of hinges and a pair of gas struts? Are you kidding?

I was looking at the hood hinges on my '68 Camaro and thinking that they may work. The doors on the Z aren't particularly heavy... but I am concerned about later stability of the hinge... perhaps I'll have to fab some out of some 1/4'' plate?

Anyway, I'm now planning to make my own hinges or modify some hood hinges and am curious if anyone has done this. As always, any thoughts are appreciated.

[Restomod]

Most cars with the way he doors are shaped it will have to lift up and out away from the car. Notice the next pics of a Diablo you see,the doors and body are shaped to allow the doors to go up and forward. Lots of guys on ebay selling them see if they have any universal type hinges.

[F70t/a]

Lambo doors are bitchin!!! make it work bro :usa:

[toddshotrods]

The lambo hinges are dual action to make doors that were designed to open horizontally go up. As Restomod pointed out your openings are not designed to allow the door to swing straight up, so it has to swing out in a conventional manner first, then up. The pivot has to be pretty heavy duty since the entire weight of the door is on this point. It has to do it thousands of times without fail, or significant wear. It also has to support the door in case there is a breeze blowing while it's up. Ever have the wind try to snatch a door from you? Imagine that with the door up in the air like a sail on a hinge that wasn't designed properly!!! It has to also be able to withstand a side load.

Most of the lambo hinges available now let the door swing out far enough that you can actually get in and out without raising the door. That is actually the best solution for a windy day, short of a real lambo style hinge and reworked openings that allow the door to pivot only horizontally.

Here's a pic of one o fthe mechanisms. I have more, if you want to see them.

[my72vette454]

I looked at lambo kits at the sema show last year and there were all price ranges and styles, I liked the looks of the ones that go up the highest. There was a company there that had a lambo kit on a yellow c-5 that looked like a quality built setup and the price was good too. I forgot the name of the company and after I got home I tried to find it with no luck, will be looking for it this year!

[CAMAROBOY69]

I just saw this car at a car show. I really like how the Lambo door hinges look in person. Like they said above. The hinges are designed to go open like a normal car then once the door is out, the hinges fold upward giving the lambo look.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtolambo0kx.jpg)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtolambo28xu.jpg)

[boodlefoof]

Hmmm... hadn't thought about a breeze, but that is a good point.

I had considered the fact that the door can't just swing straight up. I had anticipated angling the hinge to make it swing out a few degrees at the same time it swung up... but this may not work. I actually don't think it would be too tricky to make a two-stage pivoting hinge... I could use a dowel and sleeves for the outward movement, then the hood-type hinge for vertical movement. Just put some sort of limiter on the ring (around the dowel) to keep it from swinging too wide open.

Another question I keep running into as I contemplate this... where would I position the latch and striker? I suppose if I swing out and then up, it could stay in the same place... but if it swung out and up simultaneously, that wouldn't work too well.

Todd,
I'd like to see some more pics of those hinges. I'm having trouble visualizing its action.

[CAMAROBOY69]

Try to swing out, then up. Any other way could bind the fender and the door. Latch will be in the same location as it currently is.
Like we said. It opens just like a regular door. In fact you dont have to even lift it like a lambo door. It sure looks cool.

[F70t/a]

Do they have a kit for 2nd gens?

[CAMAROBOY69]

You should send Jake (68protouring454) a PM. He has experience with installing lambo type hinges and he could answer your questions quicker than I can.

[Blue70]

Boodlefoof

Someone on a 2nd gen forum just jumped in on a group purchase for Lambo hinges and threw up a link

Here it is HINGES (http://thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=304598&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=7)

[boodlefoof]

Thanks for the link Blue70. $800 is better than what I had seen, but it is still well well out of what I would pay for a pair of hinges. I'm looking more along the lines of $150 or so... if it is more than that, I'll make them myself!

Found a couple on Ebay going fairly cheap (relatively speaking)... but most are still horribly expensive.

[Restomod]

I want to know what holds the weight of the door with these type hinges?????

[toddshotrods]

I want to know what holds the weight of the door with these type hinges?????

A small gas strut. It has to be matched to the actual weight of the door for the door to go up smoothly and stay up. Otherwise a good bodybuilding program may be recommended. One of the things you're paying for with the kits is the engineering behind them. The better kits are definitely pricey, but they obviously have a LOT of time in making them work properly for each individual application.

I have been thinking about this mod for a while, but I may go to the next extreme and rework the vehicle and doors to have a more conventional style vertical hinge. I am tempted to make a set of carbon fiber doors and really stout aluminum hinges.

Here's a couple more pics. I nabbed (right-click/save) these pics from another forum - they're not mine.

Also, here's a link to a site. I got this company's flyer while at Super Summit and their products seem to be a cut above everything I have seen to date. Definitely better than the one in the pics, and I thought they were something special when I first saw them. Scroll to the right there's a little flash animation that shows how it works.


http://lsd-doors.com/indexlsd.html

[boodlefoof]

Thanks, that animation really helps me visualize it. Hmmm... does look like it might be a little tricky to build something like that. We'll see what happens. I still have lots of other things to do with this project before I can get to the hinges.

[Restomod]

I think it would be a LOT tricky to build those!! Thanks for the link the vids and animation helped a lot. I would find a local dealer and take the car by there and see what they say. Never know they may cut you a deal for being the guiny(SIC??) pig.

[boodlefoof]

Well, here is a picture of the hinge design I had come up with before seeing the hinges pictured above. It seems like it would be easier to make (because it doesn't have one compound hinge, but uses two different hinges). Instead of a gas strut, it would use a tension spring to hold up the door (like a hood hinge).

Let me know if you think it would work.

Well, that one puts me up to my attachment limit! 1.99MB total out of 2!

[68protouring454]

they look cool, but are not, do not plan on driving the car much cause if your anything over 150 it will be a tight squeeze to get in, the open conventionally but only about 1/5th of the way about 10 inches or so then hit a stop, and thats when they go up, but you have to help them up, and you need a good size area inside behind the fender to hide it, which most old cars do not have, yeah it looks cool, but thats it.
i have put 2-3 sets on, 2 were universal, and one was direct fit, the only change is the way the door mount pads were drilled to fit the correct car, they use one design and just drill it differently for each car that they make a kit for. it would require a ton of fab work , good luck,also your gonna need a huge hydraulic shock to help lift the door as most older doors are heavy as hell, goodluck
jake

[toddshotrods]

It's actually kind of refreshing to hear someone have a negative opinion of these things. There are several people on the Fiero forum with them, and I have seen a lot of people on TV with them. This is the first time I have heard someone with some kind of real experience with them, say something other than they're great.

One thing I have noticed on TV is that when they open the doors they don't seem to have a solid movement like you would expect from a production car. It seems like the owner always hangs on to the door for a second after reaching the desired "altitude" to hide this.

I'm surprised that no one has come up with a successful alternative design. All they do is take the existing design and put some new doodad on it. John your design seems like it would be too big to fit in place of the stock hinges. If you decide to try them, make one and attach it to the wall or something stable so you can work out the kinks. You'll have a better view of how everything is working and won't endanger innocent sheetmetal and fiberglass.

[68protouring454]

exactely, they do not open smoothly at all, kinda clunky, and then you need to help them up and like you said and hold the door to make sure it does not slam down, if it does it will tweak the cowl some and the door will sag and need to be adjusted, and it is just a real poor set up, i'll see if i cot any pics of the installs, the kits i installed were decah
www.decah.net ??
jake

[boodlefoof]

Thanks for the tips guys. I think I will end up trying my design... I just can't see spending hundreds of dollars for some hinges. Trying it on the wall is a great idea.

The space issue is a concern, but with the shape of the new fiberglass fenders I've created, I'll have about an extra 4-5'' of clearance over stock in that area. Also, the Datsun's doors are really pretty light... people say they basically made these cars out of soda cans!

[toddshotrods]

...the kits i installed were decah

That's what the ones in the pics are.

This is giving me ideas, I have to do some modeling... I'll share soon.

[rb70383]

Ok so how do they do it? Lamborghini (http://www.lamborghini.com/) and what other manufactures use "lambo" style doors?:dunno: :confused:

[68protouring454]

simple, the car is designed top have them, these gus are trying to put them on a car that was never intended to have a mechanism to raise the door, thus being no room to properly do it
jake

[Restomod]

Mercedes had "gull wing " doors back in the 50's,the Countach was the first to have the "scissor" doors with the the Diablo carrying on with them. Delorean also had gull wings and several smaller super car builders have used them. It not a new thing......................
BUT all of these cars were designed to use them!

[toddshotrods]

If you look at a Lambo from the side you will notice that the cut lines are kind of V-shaped. Look from the front and you will notice that the pillars and door glass are seriously angled in towards the middle of the car. All this lets the door raise straight up out of, and drop straight back down into, the opening. It's doing the same thing as a Camaro door is doing going out to the side. The hinges have one direction. These are Lambo kit car hinges:

[rb70383]

Ah ok, so does anyone have a pic of an actualy Lambo hinge? Just curious now on how those work. All this is very interesting to me. Now it does explain the shape of the A-pillars to me. All this time and it never clicked that it was because of the doors! DOH!

[boodlefoof]

Brief update...

I've forsaken the idea of the lambo/scissor doors. It just wont work with the shape of the doors after all.

In fact, withthe new fender design it will also be a little difficult to get stock type door action. This is because the flares extend into the door and therefore the door is wider from inside to outside, causing clearance issuers.

Ergo, I'm going to start thinking about gull wing doors. Not quite as cool, but it should solve all of my clearance issues.

[SatisTraction]

it reminds me of all the ricers hanging out int he parking lots

[BuddyP]

I just saw this car at a car show. I really like how the Lambo door hinges look in person. Like they said above. The hinges are designed to go open like a normal car then once the door is out, the hinges fold upward giving the lambo look.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtolambo0kx.jpg)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gtolambo28xu.jpg)

That car was down here at the Coldwater car show this past May.

[colt zantop]

that car is from my home town, jackson michigan, I see the thing daily. he owns "mechanix" shop on the corner of michigan ave and detman. hes got NOs and also its bagged. most of his cars are "thrown together" but that one does seem pretty nice....