2 -gen front suspension/ frame

[Olav]

Due to Norwegian DOT we cannot have aftermarket arms, spindles, frames and so. Even springs is is a problem. But easy fix. What can be done with the stock parts ? Anyone cut and welded arms and mounting points ? Anything that look original after painting. ? Olav

[neki67]

Some Del-a-lum bushings in the (reinforced?) A-arms, good shocks (e.g. Koni, Bilstein, etc.), better sway bars, Lee steering box, A-quality ball joints (Howe?), tie rods, etc. It will look stock but perform outstanding. Mind you, 2nd gen's are far superior, suspension and steering geometry wise, in stock form than 1st gen's.

Are you allowed to upgrade to larger and wider wheels and modern rubber?

[srh3trinity]

I agree with the above, the second gen suspension was a big step up from what I have read. You can get a lot of performance out of a build up of a stock subframe.

[ProdigyCustoms]

If you can get away with some welding the Speedtech Street Fighter Kit is awesome and is likely as good as any aftermarket subframe. Cost is close to a subframe.

For bolt in stuff, Ridetech would be a great choice. Ride Tech arms, bolt coil over conversion, combined with one of our 12.7 600 steering boxes, and you will have a good handling piece that might not skirt the legal rules

[mikedc]

How many Norwegian vehicle inspectors would know the difference between a 1st and 2nd-gen front subframe? I would just get a 2nd-gen setup because it still looks like 1960s/70s factory assembly-line parts.

If you got caught, you could just claim ignorance. What do you have to lose? (Even if they did notice the replaced subframe, I am assuming they would not permanently kick the car off the roads as long as you brought it back for another inspection with the stock parts back on it later.) I'm guessing that the car was originally from the USA and got shipped over to Europe at some point . . . you could just claim the front end must have gotten swapped before it came over and you didn't know.

[neki67]

How many Norwegian vehicle inspectors would know the difference between a 1st and 2nd-gen front subframe? I would just get a 2nd-gen setup because it still looks like 1960s/70s factory assembly-line parts.

If you got caught, you could just claim ignorance. What do you have to lose? (Even if they did notice the replaced subframe, I am assuming they would not permanently kick the car off the roads as long as you brought it back for another inspection with the stock parts back on it later.) I'm guessing that the car was originally from the USA and got shipped over to Europe at some point . . . you could just claim the front end must have gotten swapped before it came over and you didn't know.

Mmmm, you're definitely missing something here!

[Twentyover]

Am I brain dead or just reading this wrong?

Olav's sig says 79 Camaro. In his post he doesn't identify a specific car, but since the thread title is 2-Gen front suspension I'm assuming he's referring to that car. He also says no parts that don't appear stock.

So we give him one suggestion that is a catalog of clearly aftermarket parts and another that suggests he replace his what is most probably his second generation F body subframe with..... a second gen F body subframe.

My useful input--you could try relocating the upper ball joint rearward in the control arm and the lower ball joint forward in the A arm to get more caster. You can probably grind the weld in a relocated A-arm ball joint socket and the mounting holes so it would not appear to have been modified. You could-but that would be wrong :). A taller upper ball joint will help with bump steer. You may be able to sneak that one by the inspectors.

[dipren443]

Here, a thread I started ages ago...

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?8096-Guldstrand-Mod-on-2nd-Gen-Camaro

[Henesian]

As someone who actually read that you can't change the Arms, Spindles, Frames, and even Springs(How are they going to know?), things that are easy to hide if they look under the hood or under the car are the shocks and springs. I would put in Hotchkis 2" lowering springs(or a stock looking alternative, Moog 5662 springs which are from a third gen car that will drop the front a bit more than the Hotchkis's and are 700lb/in, and look stock), yellow Bilstein shocks or Red Konis, and change all the bushings. The car can handle unbelievably well with stock control arms. I would also get a 1-1/4" front sway bar as was stock in a 2nd gen T/A, I don't know about Camaros. You can do the Guldstrand Mod, but it's permanent damage to the subframe. if I were you, I would just an AFCO Race 20032-2-LF(I think that's the right number) tall upper balljoint for 70-81 camaros, and the normal height AFCO race joints for the lowers.

[mikedc]

(Oops, sorry I read the thread wrong. I obviously thought we were talking about a 1st-gen Camaro.)

[LeighP]

Tall ball joints...that won't stand out. Convert to the 1LE brake set up...uses factory GM B body spindles and 12" rotors off a late 80's Camaro or Firebird 1LE car....use the stock calipers.
It'll all look factory. you may not be able to fit all that under 15" wheels though. Mine just fit under Pontiac Rally II steel 15" rims...with a bit of filing on the caliper for clearance.
At the back, since you probably can't fit discs, get the B body 11" drum conversion kit...big finned drums with lots more shoe area...still looks stock (all factory parts) - check Master Power Brakes' website.

For your control arms, the stock stuff on a 2nd gen isn't bad...if you want more camber, get offset upper control arm cross shafts...paint them black, they look stock enough and you'll gain some adjustment range for more camber.

[Olav]

Hi all!

Sorry for not answering earlier. Hav been buisy after we came back from Florida. I'm finishing my job and preparing for a new one. Anyway here is my suspension and brakes as it is now. BTW car is not finish but if there is something more I can do without making a big job out of it i will try to do it now. But pri 1 is to get it painted and running.

Front:
Stock arms with PST polygraphite bushes. I know they sqeak.
32mm/ 1 1/4" roll bar PST
Pro shocks adjustable - Pro Touring/ Dave
Springs, dont remember but i will replace them anyway. Think they are from mid 70's A-body. They had thicker coils than the original. Cut to fit
Corvette C5 13" brakes and hydraboost.

Rear:
Vettebrakes and products composite springs. (Have heard there have been some issues with the cracking.)
LS1 12" Camaro brakes
22mm / 7/8" rear sway bar.
Guldstrand mod on front spring mounting bracket.
Pro shocks adjustable - Pro Touring/ Dave


Chassis:
G-brace. Pro touring/ Dave
Subframe connectors. Pro Touring/ Dave
Alu bushes. Pro Touring/ Dave


Thanks!

Olav
.

[neki67]

Well, I would advise to look into a (Fays) Watss Link and if you decide to go that route, replace the bushings in the leafs with friction free (spherical/Johnny) joints. Let the Watts link do the Lateral free positioning and let the leafs twist as free as possible.

When it comes to yearly inspection you can always remove the Watts and reinstall after it has been renewed. That's off course iff the inspectors consider it a problem.

[Olav]

Thanks!

I was acually looking into watts link or panhard rod a few days ago. This will put less stress on the "famous" composite cracking springs and and doing it's job to center the rear. Front bushes replaced with joint's also a common mod. Don't think a watts link will be a problen because I keep the original suspension design ( they don't se the springs are of comosite) and the watts is also easy to remove if they want. Actually it's only removing the rod's because it not illegal to bolt frames to the undercarrige :-)

As for front tall upper ball joint seem like a good idea.




Olav

[MonzaRacer]

Olav if you need a heavy water proof lube to go on the poly bushings I work for a place and get you a bottle of Mighty's brake and rubber parts lube. 8 oz bottle should work for all your needs aND you can lube your brake parts with it so as to limit squeaks there too. Any hardware with rubber in it in brakes we lube with this stuff and I always hit all pad points and the backs between the caliper and pad backing to keep down squeaks,, trust me this stuff is slick and thick.
We had a guy roll in with stuck caliper and the rotor was RED, pads smoking hot and crumbling and this stuff was still spread on backs of pads nad water WONT wash it away.
Let me know if you want some, I do have paypal and all we would need is to figure shipping costs. Bottle is same size as antiseize bottles.
Honestly give Markus at SC&C for some ideas on mods you can use and conceal.
Good Luck
Lee