Engine Ideas? (sorry for posting in the wrong section)

[my72vette454]

I posted this in the engine section a while back but got no replys so sorry for posting in the wrong section but I am ready to spend money and would like some suggestions. I am building off an 83 454 block and want to come up with a nice forged reciprocating assembly that will handle 1000 hp. I am thinking about an eagle 4340 crank and rod setup with arp rod bolts and 9310 wrist pins, je forged flattop pistons with hellfire rings. I will be using open chamber oval port heads for now. Should I stay with the stock stroke or go with a stroker kit? What head gaskets are good to use and should I o ring the block? It will be turboed and will be seeing 15 lbs of boost on occasion. It will have a 4L80E trans behind it with 3.08 gears and I would like to get 20 mpg out of it cruising if possible. Will going with a stoker kit make any difference on fuel economy? I am taking the block to the machine shop monday so I need to get my parts list finalized asap.

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[WELTERRACER]

a 496 stroker would be nice... but you dont need much at all to make that 454 make 1000 HP...

A longer stroke would make more torque but you will probobly not get the traction it takes to harness it anyways..

Just make sure to use 8.5-9.0 compression so you are safe on pump gas and buy some good aluminum cylinder heads... (cast heads hold too much heat)

You dont need a huge cam but a mild one with a 112 centerline will work awsome

[my72vette454]

What brand of internals are you using in your new engine?

[WELTERRACER]

I bought CAT rods off of ebay... and a MADDOGRACING crankshaft from ebay also..

I believe these parts are actually SCAT as if you compare the scat rods to the pictures and specs of the rods i bought they are identical..

Stock Big block rods are supposidly good up to 900hp according to ATI.. as long as you keep them below 6500rpms..

[ProdigyCustoms]

Eagle 4340 stuff is fine for what you want to do. I would not stroke it as I would not want the additional torque from the long arm. Also the short stroke is easier on the mains.
Head gasket, you could O ring, but they are a pain in the ass to seal. I like Cometics.
I do not think the stroker will make a noticable difference in fuel economy, ut as was said above, you really do not need it. Too much torque will be a enemy.

[yody]

I feel sorry for anyone who risks ruining their engine by going cheap and buying "CAT" products. I would throw those rods in the trash can, you can think they are made by scat, but they are not

[yody]

and you would be a fool to run stock BBC rods in a 900 hp motor!!

[Red73]

Once you get the engine finished, what are you going to do to the rearend so that it can handle 1000hp? Rod

[JoshStratton]

Is it even possible to run a 1000 HP engine with 20mpg? I think 1000 HP is a LOT beyond the scope of Pro-Touring. I think you are into Pro-Street at that point. For a real Pro-Touring car 350-450 HP is MORE than enough....but I will leave that to others who have been in the scene longer than me. I am still doing bodywork :(

[WELTERRACER]

I feel sorry for anyone who risks ruining their engine by going cheap and buying "CAT" products. I would throw those rods in the trash can, you can think they are made by scat, but they are not

I have the rods and crank at the machine shop right now... They told me they are AWSOME and good to go.. They are not UNDERCUT like ive been told before and are everything they are claimed to be.. 4340 forged/shotpeaned/doublemagnifluxed!

They only thing the machine shop is doing is balancing the rotating assembly!..

I wont push my engine over 800hp just due to the fact that my block/tranny and rear end just wont take it.. Im not at all worried about the engine internals!!

You just dont have any faith do ya? :hmm:

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I have the rods and crank at the machine shop right now... They told me they are AWSOME and good to go.. They are not UNDERCUT like ive been told before and are everything they are claimed to be.. 4340 forged/shotpeaned/doublemagnifluxed!

They only thing the machine shop is doing is balancing the rotating assembly!..

I wont push my engine over 800hp just due to the fact that my block/tranny and rear end just wont take it.. Im not at all worried about the engine internals!!

You just dont have any faith do ya? :hmm:


Sorry to get off track here, but Welter, what clutch are you using?

[my72vette454]

Thanks for the replys everybody. When I say 1000 hp I mean I want an engine built to take that much power just for durability reasons then the 7-800 or so that it will see occasionally see wont stress it too much. The only way it would ever see that much would be on race gas and lots of boost and I wont be doing that hardly ever. I am doing a dana 44 rear from a C-4 vette and a 4L80E trans for the rest of the drivetrain. Right now with my 3.08 gears and a 4 speed I can get 14-15 mpg cruising 75-80 mph and it didnt change with addition of the turbos either. other people I have talked to with big block vettes have been able to get 20 by going with an overdrive trans so I hope I get to be so lucky. I have always been inspired by the banks twin turbo cars of the past 25 years and the newer ones I have came across ie Meanie's C-4, Chicayne, Monte Williams, just to name a few. When I came across this site a few years back I found guys that have many of the same ideas as I have had for years. So with all my ideas as well as lots of ideas I have gotten from here I am building my dream car. I want my vette to be streetable, have good handling, be comfortable and as fuel efficient as possible, but wickedly fast when the need arises so out of all the power adders it seemed turbos were the way to go for me. The system I built for my car allows me to retain all the acessories...a/c, power steering, ect and is very driveable, you can get in it a little around town and it acts like a normal big block but if you floor it and count to 2 you better be paying attention as it will roast the tires off at anything under 70 mph which I think is pretty cool by the way. The motor I have in the car now was real tired and was burning a quart of oil every 300 miles and it is a low compression motor so I figgured it would be good to try the turbos on since it was already on its way out anyways. It lasted for about 8 tanks of gas and lots of "tuning" later but now has tons of blowby so its time for a new one. Sorry for writing a whole chapter but I wanted to share some background info. Anyways thanks again, I am getting my parts list filled out.

Mike

[yody]

weltracer, do a search on any forum like team camaro, or team chevelle on CAT products and be prepared to read for awhile........

[WELTERRACER]

weltracer, do a search on any forum like team camaro, or team chevelle on CAT products and be prepared to read for awhile........

This is what about the internet that entertains me the most.. One or two people have a failure with a part on just about anything.. being a car part or a snowmobile part ...so on and so forth.. and they go on the internet and post something about it and NOW all of a sudden every part made by that manufacure is junk... LOL

I have a buddy with a 500hp 383 stroker LT1 and he just rebuilt his motor this spring and when the checked his crank, it was cracked... IT IS A SCAT CRANK..

Now does this mean that every Scat crank is junk??

Below is a picture of the CAT RACING RODS im using matted up with the SPeedpro pistons im am going to use!! The rods come with ARP racing bolts.. and are 630 grams each, they are made from top of the line aircraft quality 4340 forged steel and the rods and caps are made in two different processes for added strength, they are best used in engines makeing over 700hp..

[WELTERRACER]

Sorry to get off track here, but Welter, what clutch are you using?

I am using a stock replacement clutch made by ZOOM..

I dont do 6500 rpm clutch dumps, so i did not feel the need to go to an overpriced Racing clutch!

When you have over 600hp.. it doesnt take much to smoke the tires or beat the honda next to you.. LOL :seizure:

[yody]

sorry, not that you probably care, but I am not convinced, pictures wont' tell you much, and how do you know they are made of 4340? Also please explain how making the caps in a seperate process makes them stronger? And I am not talking about 1 or 2 people either.....

[yody]

BTW Scat is also made offshore, the only thing SCAT I would buy is a billet crank, which I believe is made in house. However Scat stuff is better than eagle, except for the rods. Ever wonder why CAT is pretty much only sold on ebay? Because no machine shop will risk using their stuff in their engines. Ask your machinist what kind of warranty this motor is coming with. Also you say you have a stock clutch and will have over 700hp?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Only thing I can say about Cat is the one set I have seen (some 5140 I beam rods) were bad off on size and balance. I am of the opinion that if you cannot afford at least a Eagle Crank / rod set up, you cannot afford to make any horsepower above it. Nothing sucks worse then a $7000 motor with cheapo parts blowing apart, when $8000 may have kept it together.
And for the record, the last Eagle crank I got had 1/1000th taper in it and had to be ground. So I ain't saying Eagle is all that either, but I have not broke it yet!

[wendell]

The thing that makes SCAT atractive is that they perform QC in house in CA. The chinese forging houses will make anything you tell them to make and make it as well as you tell them to make it but... you HAVE to hold them to your specs with an agressive QC program.

Ebay rods can hold together in a 700hp small block. You can run 12psi with a 9.5cr. 2 bolt mains will hold a 60lbs crank at 10,000rpm... it's all possible. it comes down to risk/benifit.

[WELTERRACER]

tollerances could be off on any mechanical part that is why engines are always balanced and blueprinted before assembly..

Does anyone have an actual FAILER to talk about?

Yody... i didnt say my cluch was stock... it is just a stock replacement made by zoom..

[JoshStratton]

This is a really interesting post. Thanks for all of the great info and opinions! I am not too experienced with building engines. I built one VW engine but never got to start it cause the project sold. I am learning a lot with this thread.