How do YOU paint "Ghost" stripes/flames/accents, etc.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Hey guys,

I've got a question for the bodymen and painters on here. What is your method to laying down ghosted stripes? My Dad was a body and paint man for 10 years, but he worked in collision, so I'm not sure if his method for laying down ghosted stuff is still the best way to do it. Especially since he hasn't worked in a bodyshop (as a paid employee atleast) in 25 years. So for arguements sake, lets say someone wanted to lay down some ghosted stripes on a black car. Hood, trunk and spoiler. How would you do it? I'd prefer to stay away from any sort of HOK or really expensive stuff, as I've got access to Speis Hecker stuff.

Thanks for the help!
Ralph

[TonyL]

ive always seen pearl used to create the stripes. or flames.

my friends camaro was recently done with three shades of pearl, it was wet sanded and cleared like 6 times. looked awsome.

[MuscleRodz]

Ghosting a black vehicle is not done the same as anything else. With everything else, normally you lay a black or dark base for the ghost with a transparent top coat. With black, I would base the car in black, and depending on the effect depends on what color ghost base I would use, white, silver, red, etc. I would then top coat with a transparent black and clear.

Mike

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Mike and Tony, thanks for the responses.

Tony,
From what I've seen they all use pearl as well. Post up some pics of that Camaro!

Mike,

As the base for the ghost, is it just a regular paint or is it thinned/reduced differently, anything done to prep it? Desired effect in my case would probably be silver or possibly a candy red. Hmm, this doesn't sound too difficult, I'm thinking heavily about ghosting some stripes on my SS this winter, since I will probably repaint the hood anyways.

Thanks for the help!

[astroracer]

When I did my truck I used white BC/CC. I based it first, taped off the flames (this was a twelve hour process...), degreased the flame pattern, shot the pearl blue, untaped, degreased and then shot the clear topcoat.
I used straight clear as a carrier for the pearl powder but you could put any color down as a base for your flames. Like Mike said it really depends on the look you are after. My flames turned out exactly like I wanted them because I did a few test panels before hand to test the colors. I don't call my flames "ghost flames". I call them "stealth flames" because they are almost invisible until the sun hits them right. The ones on the lid really pop when the sun is high...
Do some experimenting first and let us know what you decide on. There are so many possibilties....
Mark

[CAMAROBOY69]

Ralph I saw some really tasteful ghost flames on a 57 this weekend and got some pics. The pics are in this thread https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8695
I also want to paint some sort of ghost flames onto my silver Camaro eventually.
From all the research I have checked into and the professional painters I have talked to. This is usually how they do ghost flames.

1. Spray Base color on car
2. Tape off car for flames
3. Spray flames with pearl of same color as base using clearless base or clear coat. Depends on what color flames you want.
4. Untape flames and clean up any sharp tape edges
5. Spray entire car with multiple coats of clear

Here is the 57 from the thread I listed above.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img277.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0050399xe.jpg)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img277.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0050400oj.jpg)

Here are some awesome ghost checkered stripes on Brent Jacksons 69 Camaro
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ProdigyCustoms]

Be careful when using pearls over black, what usually sounds like a great idea for a cool looking black pearl, almost always turns into mud on black. Black is just so dominate a color that it changes the color of the accent pearl.

For example, it sounds like purple mica over black would give a cool effect? It generaly turns black muddy brown! Sounds like red mica over black would look cool? Makes pure baby **** brown, with sparkle, LOL!

The fact is adding pearl to any solid or pastel color to try to trick the color up, almost never works. Now if it is a pearl color, like a blue, it is very simple to add more pearl for a ghost effect.

So, by some spray cards and do some test, or you may end up with a Brown Corvette that was supposed to be this real cool purple pearl black!

[Happyfunballs]

Ghost flames have taken on new meaning as of late, simply because of the new types of paints and paint technology. IMO, the true process of painting ghost flames(or scallops) would be painted with an over-reduced, tinted version of the base coat, then a light coat of the original base put over that to conceal the flames. The problem with this is once you over-reduce a metallic, it's prone to mottleing, so it's better to tint a clear with the original basecoat. Anyway, for me, black is the most fun to ghost. The color options are endless, as are the paint types...candies, liquid, powder, or paste pearls, etc. You can make them as subtle or as loud as you want buy changing the material and process. IMO, the eaisest and most effective way of ghost flaming a black base, is to lay out the flames, mix a pearl powder with an over-reduced intercoat clear and use a touch-up gun and just hit the edges....lightly. Then pull the tape and clear. The amount of flames you see, in this case, would depend on how much pearl you added to the clear, and the number of coats. I like to "bring up the color" so I'll use a little less pearl and a few more coats, but also keeping in mind that a high number of coats will give you a tape line. Usually, I can spray a ghost flame job without any tape lines under the first coat of clear. Flames really are fun, both to look at and to paint.

[TonyL]

Here's how my friends turned out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[TonyL]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[censo69]

A lot of it depends on just how gost you want to make my painter and I spent about a week laying the fame outline alone and then about an other week of trying diffent colors and spraying techniques the result was a metallic blue base with three sets of different colored gost flames overlayed on it and though the stripes. I would post a a pic but it over a meg in size does anyone know how to reduce it so I can post it? I first tried some colors on a test card but found the card dosen't show the true portntial so I found a junked caddy hood and fixed it and used that as my test pannel. If you send me an email I can email the pic to you guys and tell yo how we did it.

Vince

[CAMAROBOY69]

I just updated post #6 with some pictures of ghost flames.

[68protouring454]

i do not do alot of custom stuff, but i do on occassion, i like applying my base, thn taping off my design/stripe etc, then use either lquid or poweder pearl mixed into a colorless basecoat, apply, but do not build up much, alittle pearl goes along way, then untape and clear, works real nice but there are 100 ways to do it, using the colorless you still get some color thru the pearl from the base and it does not much up
ralph whats getting ghost flames?
jake

[MuscleRodz]

Mike,

As the base for the ghost, is it just a regular paint or is it thinned/reduced differently, anything done to prep it? Desired effect in my case would probably be silver or possibly a candy red. Hmm, this doesn't sound too difficult, I'm thinking heavily about ghosting some stripes on my SS this winter, since I will probably repaint the hood anyways.

Thanks for the help!
If you want candy red, I would just apply over the black and only put on enough coats to get the effect you want. But be careful, as Frank said, it can look brown if not done right. HOK has a new candy base that is easier to apply than the clear candies.

Silver could be applied over base, then use a transparent black, black mixed with clear, and apply till happy. Then go to staight clear. Or you could try a silver pearl right over the black.

I don't like pearls so much as I like HOK's "ICE" pearls. You don't notice so much until the sun hits them and they pop without mudding the base color.

Mike

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Thanks for all the responses and tips, guys. I'll have to let my Dad read this one, as some of it is over my head.

Mark,
I guess I'm going for more of a mix between stealth and ghost. I remember seeing the pictures you posted of your truck a while back, that thing was awesome and the ghost flames looked great on there!

Adam,
The stripes on Brent Jackson's '69 are exactly the effect I would be going for, minus the checkered accents. The process you described is the process my Dad said he would use. It looks like on black, things change a bit, though. The silver ghost flames on the '57 look awesome.

Frank,
Thanks for the heads up! I definitely don't want a **** brown pearl car, lol! I'll definitely buy some test cards or see if my uncle has an old hood or panel lying around that I could paint and test out the colors. These stripes need to be for the wow factor, not the ow factor, lol.

Happy,
Thanks for the help! One of the things I was worried about was tape lines, as I was checking out some local cars at shows recently, and some of the tape lines really stood out. Most guys had pin strippers cover them up, but I guess that's not an option with a ghost job. Thanks for detailing your processess. Sounds like it would be extremely doable for me since I'd be able to do it using all off the shelf paint minus the pearls.

Tony,
That looks great! Funny thing is, my uncle just had his '72 painted black and added some semi-ghosted flames. They look almost identical to that in terms of color and layout. They look absolutely awesome in person, so I'm sure your buddies camaro must really stand out at shows!

Vince,
I'd love to see your car. I'd reduce the pic for you, but I don't have any imaging software myself. There is some free software out there, but your best bet would be to just post in the multimedia forum. Ask someone if you can email them and they can reduce the file size. One of the mods in there should be able to do it for you.

Jake,
The ghost flames will be going on my '01 SS if I can pull it off. I'm almost definitely going to repaint the hood over the winter, and I figure while I'm at it, I might as well take the spoiler and trunk deck down to bare meta, err. composite and lay out some stripes. My problem is on the one hand I REALLY like the all black car, but on the other I really want some sort of striping to set the car apart from others. A ghosted ZL1 type stripe just seems like the best of both worlds. You're right there definitely are 100 ways to do it. I'll probably try a couple of the methods and see which works best for me or in this case my Dad who will most likely spray the car (keep costs down to just paint).

Mike,
Thanks for the response. The more I think about it, the more I would probably do silver ghost accents. Using a regular silver would probably be the most economical decision for me, so it's probably what I would use.

Thanks again for the responses,

[race-rodz-inc]

i couldnt help but chime in here, your guys that are used to 12 hour long flame taping sessions need to try 3M "premask", if you cant find it, dont worry, go to your local sticker guy, it is the transfer paper for applying decals. usually about 20-40$$ for a partial roll depending on size.

the stuff is great, lay it on over your fineline, use a razor to trim it out(very light pressure), degrease and spray. i been using it for a few years, and i cringe everytime i hear about taping flames the old fashioned way. last week i laid out/masked flames on a chevy truck for a buddy, 74 tips, from the front of hood all the way to the back edge of the door, 4 rolls of 1/4" fineline, "premasked, cut out/weeded...... 4 1/2 hours.

as for ghosting over black, here is what i suggest, seems like a few extra steps, but well worth the effort.

black base, lay out your stripes/flames whatever, intercoat clear with silver dry pearl a lil over ruduced (dont want nasty tape edge from build up), a few coats of that, let it flash, unmask, now mix up your choice of color (kandy concentrate in intercoat clear) now start applying the kandy over the unmasked graphics (as long as your black is clean, you shouldnt see any color except where the silver pearl is...and it helps get rid of the tape line build up) keep applying the kandy untill you get the "shade" you are looking for(true kandy's will eventually turn black) the darker the shade you want, the more intense you mix the kandy...so you dont need as many coats. let it flash...tack it off... clear, cut, polish...take a pic and post it here.

using the silver pearl with a kandy will give you a true color, unlike using a colored pearl, that way you dont end up with a nasty ****brown color.

i use HOK products, the cost for intercoat clear is about $20/quart...kandy concentrate is about $25/8oz.... so the price isnt too outa line, and they are easy to use, under no circumstances would i ever recomend adding a regular base color to a clear to try and duplicate a kandy....it just doesnt work right

[TonyL]

ditto on useing "premask" to lay out flames and complicated designs. I did a flame job on a freightliner in like 3 hours with 14" paper. cake.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Race,

Thanks for the response. For some reason I thought HOK was much more expensive than that, and that's why I was leaning away from it. I'll definitely look into the premask, as the stripes on the SS and also my '68 will require lots of tape time.

[BRIAN]

Ralph, Your Spies stuff cost about 3x as much as HOK does. I think the best answer to this question is you have to spray out a couple of test panels. The problem is everybody has a different idea of what "Ghost" flames look like. You can mix most of the HOK pearls into your Spies products. I would use the HOK clear as the Spies stuff is so damn thick it can hurt you in the end. I am helping a buddy out at a shop in Queens and they have an airbrush guy who is pretty good with those "REAL" flame type flames. If you are interested let me know. You could have him do the art and bring it back to your pops to clear it or they can do the entire job. Good luck either way.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Brian,
Thanks for the response. I hadn't realized Spies was so expensive. It's what my uncle's shop uses, so I assumed it would be the cheapest route for me to take. I won't be doing the stripes until over the winter, and I may skip them all together depending what is going on at the time, but if my Dad doesn't think he can handle spraying the stripes, I'll let you know. It's good to know we've got some good painters close by. P.S. If you've got some free time on Sunday mornings you should head out to OBI one sunday with us. It's a pretty good cruise. The more pt'ers the better!

[MuscleRodz]

Spies, Sikkens, or any other of the european paints is some the most expensive paint to buy (excluding wild stuff like chromalusion). It is also some of the best. In the paint business, you get what you pay for.

Mike

[race-rodz-inc]

HOK products are overall decent, solid base coats are inexpensive and cover great, the shimirin bases dont cover for crap(have to use a like colored sealer), the intercoat clear is great, dry pearls also good, i prefer the kandy concentrait/sg100 mix over the UK kandies(easier to work with, dry fast). the clear on the other hand, i have mixed feelings about. its great for bike parts, but i dont think i would recomend it for an overall vehicle job. stick with quality production clears, ppg, is my brand of choice this month.


here are a couple pics of a harley i did a couple weeks ago, HOK products, bc09 planet green base, yellow kandy, green kandy, striping urathanes, uc 35 clear. the silver leaf was "brushed finish" then i used silver leaf flakes to achive a "different" look

the colors look really funky from my $100 pos camera, but you kinda get the idea.

[censo69]

Ok I got my two pictures resized and am going to mak my forst attempt to post them. The tape job was a little rushed but I think it came out rather well. I will definetly be looking into that 3M stuff when I do it on my car for sure. The paint is Sikkens fine metallics, coarse metallics, and pearls. Let me know what you guys think.

[Happyfunballs]

Looks good censo.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Race,

Those tins look great! I'm always impressed with the detail of paint on bikes.

Vince,

Thanks for posting hte pics. I think the paint looks great! The flames look awesome, especially since they're in both the stripes and the base blue. Nicely done!!