can't get banjos to stop leaking- tips?

[Ishmael]

I'm using the banjos that I got from stopflex with new copper washers and I just cannot get the lt1 rear calipers to stop leaking. I have successfully stripped the holes in both calipers. Seemed too easy. Any tips for the next set?

[ehummelman]

Do you have to use banjo fittings? If you can use an adapter screwed into the caliper it will likely seal better.

[Ishmael]

I've never heard of a banjo adapter. Is that what its called?

[dhutton]

Probably a stupid question but did you use copper washers on both sides of the banjo?

[neki67]

To comfort you; I had the exact same problem. I had the stripped threads repaired with helicoils. Should have been done from the factory but I guess the beancounters wouldn't allow it.

Bear/Bare (?) in mind: the helicoil should be perfectly square to the mating flange. I had mine done by a machine shop, cost a bit more but it doesn't leak anymore and/since you can properly tighten it.

[dipren443]

Probably a stupid question but did you use copper washers on both sides of the banjo?

Second this. Was just about to post the same question.

I am running banjo adapters on my LS1 rears with no issue.

[Skip Fix]

Some copper washers seem to seal better than others, I've had to swap washers and sometimes really crank the bolt down to crush them correctly.Be sure they are the correct size and not too small or too large to get crushed in the grooved area on the caliper and bolt head.

[ehummelman]

I've never heard of a banjo adapter. Is that what its called?


I've never heard of a banjo adapter. Is that what its called?
No, it's just an adapter that fits whatever thread you have on the caliper and converts to either AN or the typical brake line tube nut sizes.
For example:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LNG-45240/?rtype=10

[TheJDMan]

No, it's just an adapter that fits whatever thread you have on the caliper and converts to either AN or the typical brake line tube nut sizes.
For example:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/LNG-45240/?rtype=10

OK, That link is to a 1/8 pipe thread adaptor which will work if your calipers are threaded for 1/8NPT but it will not fit any banjo fitting type thread. For example, my calipers use a m10x1.00 banjo fitting.

[Nick Ostas]

make sure you do not have any powercoating on the mateing surface

[Ishmael]

Yes, I had copper washers on both sides. That made me giggle a bit. Actually the hoses came with what I believe was aluminum washers or maybe tin? They were silver at any rate. I couldn't get those to seal up with the front calipers so I switched them out and they now seal up on the second set of fronts.
I asked a shop about installing helicoils and the calipers are actually cheaper for me.
Caliper paint could be under that surface.
It just seems like the bolts are never long enough to get grip in the caliper. I ended up buying slightly longer ones for the front. I should have book marked the source.

[Ishmael]

I had another idea. I stripped the threads on the front calipers as well. I got 4 bolts all the same in a kit. If I remember the front bolts weren't the right ones. When I tried to thread them into the new calipers they didn't go in very easy but were close. I bought different bolts m10 something that were slightly longer than the ones I had and they went in easier.
When I put the bolts in the rear caliper in (months later than when I did the front end) they started sticking almost immediately and I wondered why they were getting sticky early. I'll bet I've got the wrong bolts for these as well. Anybody know what pitch 95 rear calipers are supposed to have? Its m10 x 1. 1.25 or 1.5.

[neki67]

I asked a shop about installing helicoils and the calipers are actually cheaper for me.

Correct; new/rebuild calipers are cheaper but you will still have to be very carefull to not strip the threads, correct thread (M10 x 1) or not. Helicoils will prevent that.

[Ishmael]

Are helicoils harder to strip?

[Ishmael]

Thanks for the size btw.

[Apogee]

Are helicoils harder to strip?

M10x1.0...and yes, helicoils use a hardened steel spring as a thread insert, so they're generally much stronger than aluminum, cast iron, mild steel threads.

Tobin
KORE3

[ehummelman]

OK, That link is to a 1/8 pipe thread adaptor which will work if your calipers are threaded for 1/8NPT but it will not fit any banjo fitting type thread. For example, my calipers use a m10x1.00 banjo fitting.

i was just trying to illustrate what an adapter looked like, not giving a particular part # or application. :)

[neki67]

W.r.t. the helicoils; on mine they used helicoils intented to replace the stripped thread for glowplugs/injectors on certain diesel cylinder heads . These specific helicoils have a new mating flange/surface attached to them so the sealing will always be square/perfect!

[Ishmael]

Well, the old guy that did it near me no longer does it even though the shops I have contacted all send me in his direction. I've got 2 new calipers in the meantime. The 10x1.0 banjo wouldn't get close to threading into the caliper but worked no problem at all on the second. But the mating surface lloks like hell on the second so... I'm going to keep looking for somebody who does helicoils and try it out on one of my calipers before I send either back in as cores.

[85GPLEf41]

What does the surface that the copper washer seals to on the calipers look like? Reason i ask is because i had replaced calipers on a TuG ground support equipment, i know "super high performance vehicle" LOL...I couldn't get them to seal at all! Well after fighting it for a bit, i pulled another caliper off of the parts shelf and found the inlet to be rough vs the "machined" one on the other caliper, And they were both rebuilt ones from the same manufacturer! Once i reinstalled the machined one on it sealed up perfectly! Just a thought..

[neki67]

Well, the old guy that did it near me no longer does it even though the shops I have contacted all send me in his direction. I've got 2 new calipers in the meantime. The 10x1.0 banjo wouldn't get close to threading into the caliper but worked no problem at all on the second. But the mating surface lloks like hell on the second so... I'm going to keep looking for somebody who does helicoils and try it out on one of my calipers before I send either back in as cores.

Or just buy a kit yourself. Not very difficult to do (http://www.roadstarmagazine.com/2004/03/how-to-use-a-helicoil/) and since you need to do 4 calipers it'll be cost efficient too!

I believe these are the inserts (you know; the ones with the mating flange) I mentioned before: http://www.amazon.com/1-00-9-0mm-Time-Sert-Insert-10101/dp/B001JK23XW/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_6/182-2739715-8817529

Complete kit: http://www.amazon.com/BIG-SERT-M10-1-00-Thread-Repair/dp/B003QB3B1A/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_13

[Ishmael]

What does the surface that the copper washer seals to on the calipers look like? Reason i ask is because i had replaced calipers on a TuG ground support equipment, i know "super high performance vehicle" LOL...I couldn't get them to seal at all! Well after fighting it for a bit, i pulled another caliper off of the parts shelf and found the inlet to be rough vs the "machined" one on the other caliper, And they were both rebuilt ones from the same manufacturer! Once i reinstalled the machined one on it sealed up perfectly! Just a thought..

I thought about that too. They've all had fairly rough surfaces but I figured that's the way they are cast.

[a67]

Couple of things I noticed reading this thread. One is that there is difficulty threading in the banjo bolt right from the start. This to me says that the threads in the caliper are already pulled some. So odds are they will strip out at the slightest hint of torque.

The other is that the copper washers work harden over time. This prevents it from providing a decent seal.

The copper washers can be made soft again (very soft) by heating to a dull red and quenching in cool water. Can use a propane torch as used for soldering copper plumbing, or even a gas range to heat them. Hold the washer by a piece of wire to heat it.

Dunking it in the cool water while still hot knocks off the oxides. This leaves a clean soft copper washer.

Bob.

[Ishmael]

Great tips! I'm trying that one.

[David Pozzi]

If the fitting is dry, a tiny bit of red Locktite on each sealng surface will seal it.

[SShep71]

Anneal the copper washers before you install them. Its an old school tip but it works.

[Ishmael]

I'm definitely trying the washers. I didn't know I could have used loctite. Either of these tips would have saved at least one of those calipers.
thanks guys

[Apogee]

...The other is that the copper washers work harden over time. This prevents it from providing a decent seal.

The copper washers can be made soft again (very soft) by heating to a dull red and quenching in cool water. Can use a propane torch as used for soldering copper plumbing, or even a gas range to heat them. Hold the washer by a piece of wire to heat it.

Dunking it in the cool water while still hot knocks off the oxides. This leaves a clean soft copper washer.

Bob.

This annealing process can also be done with a butane lighter in a pinch if you need to do a field fix and don't have your normal tool box available. Unlike ferrous materials which need to slowly air cool, copper, silver and brass can either be allowed to air cool or quenched in water to get the full soft material condition during annealing.

Tobin
KORE3