Anyone have pricing for DSE 4 link ?

[96Z28SS]

Anyone have pricing for DSE 4 link rear suspension?

I would like to use it for my 69 Camaro

[Ralph LoGrasso]

$1495 without coilovers. Koni's are $280 each. Springs are $55 each.

[96Z28SS]

Does it work with mini tubs, and wil they sell it with a narrowed rear end so its a complete kit. All you'd have to do is weld it in place.

[Ralph LoGrasso]

I'm not sure on either account, sorry. Your best bet would be to email DSE.

[Steve1968LS2]

I saw the product and it is a very nicely packaged deal.. I can't imagine that it would not work with thier minitub kit..

[Sparky67]

Does it work with mini tubs, and wil they sell it with a narrowed rear end so its a complete kit. All you'd have to do is weld it in place.


It will work with their mini tub kit. I spoke to Kyle at the GoodGuy show in Columbus about it. It does have a different crossmember than what they package in their mini tub kit. As for the Narrowed rear end, that you would have to talk to Kyle about. Kyle stated that they will start production on the kit in about 2 weeks.

I am getting the four link for my 67 camaro, but my Currie 9 inch Rearend is an Extreme Duty housing, which is 3.25" housing tubes and mine has the rear brace. DSE is modifiying their kit so it will work with my rearend.

[70ptta]

is this only for first gens or do they make a 2nd gen kit too

[tharber]

I talked to Frank this morning, they will be shipping in August. The shock crossmember is more to the rear with this vrs mini tub kit. They will have the actual pics on their site by this afternoon. He said this kit would allow a 275 rear tire on 9.5 rim. $1495 plus numerous shock options. They will offer a rear housing with this shortly.
TH

[96Z28SS]

I talked to Frank this morning, they will be shipping in August. The shock crossmember is more to the rear with this vrs mini tub kit. They will have the actual pics on their site by this afternoon. He said this kit would allow a 275 rear tire on 9.5 rim. $1495 plus numerous shock options. They will offer a rear housing with this shortly.
TH

I hope it allows a bigger tire than a 9.5 rim, thats not really worth it then.

I want to fit a 335/35/18 tire under there.

[daryn67]

Fairly certain what he is saying is that a 275 will fit without the minitub in place, but I may be wrong.


Daryn

[daryn67]

They do now have a picture of the real thing on their site under News.



Daryn

[tharber]

Sorry, the 275 rear tire was with NO mini tub.

Tim

[tharber]

I placed my order this morning for the 4 link and deep tub kit. The 4 link will not ship until August but I'll post up pics when it arrives.

Can anyone give me their opinions on DSE's shocks? I did not order those beacuase there are not specs to compare to say a QA1 shock...not that I know anything specific about them either.
Tim

[camcojb]

There will be a couple of shock options. They have an aluminum bodied shock initially and are working on a steel bodied shock at a lower price.

The kit retails for $1495 minus shocks/springs and includes everything else needed for install. Marquez Design is selling them at an introductory price of $1360. We are now taking orders for these. You will not be charged until they ship. Freight costs aren't known at this time but for the West Coast guys figure app. $130. or so. The further East you go the cost drops.

Production should be caught up and shipping should start around the first of August. There is also a kit for the 68-74 Nova's which should be available the end of August.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif




Jody
__________________
My Cars

[70ptta]

what about 2nd gen f bodies

[camcojb]

what about 2nd gen f bodies


Nothing yet, but I'd guess they will bring one out with the current popularity of those cars.

Jody

[Kenova]

........... There is also a kit for the 68-74 Nova's which should be available the end of August.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif




Jody
__________________
My Cars

YES :bananna2:
Ken

[VenturaII]

Is running exhaust past this setup a problem?

[camcojb]

Is running exhaust past this setup a problem?


It does make it tighter, but you can definitely get an exhaust through there.

Jody

[69bigblock]

Another question on the exhaust location. You said it was tight but do you need the tail pipes custom made or stock location is fine.. Just wondering because I have 3" tailpipes and really don't want to change them

[camcojb]

Another question on the exhaust location. You said it was tight but do you need the tail pipes custom made or stock location is fine.. Just wondering because I have 3" tailpipes and really don't want to change them


I wouldn't be surprised to see that they had to be moved slightly at the rear where they go past the rear end. If a guy bought one of the kits like from Stainless Works or Torque Tech that is mandrel bent for the car but not assembled, there's probably enough wiggle-room to get it through with no mods. But if you installed and welded up the exhaust on a car without the 4 link you would be lucky if they just happened to clear with it. In other words, you installed the system with lots of room back there, now there's less. You would have moved the pipes a little differently if it would have had the 4 link in there to begin with.

Jody

[68protouring454]

its not too late to get this in your car is it?? would love to hear how it drives
jake

[camcojb]

its not too late to get this in your car is it?? would love to hear how it drives
jake


It's a bit late for me to have any chance of having the car at SEMA. I may swap over later.

Jody

[olds87]

Is this setup is the same to the el mule have?

[camcojb]

Is this setup is the same to the el mule have?

Very close. They did the Mule install at DSE. DSE then made some changes to make it less obtrusive on the rear seat for the production version.

Jody

[olds87]

Cool,I just was looking at the mule rear end.

[olds87]

Can you use it on a road corse?

[camcojb]

Can you use it on a road corse?

Absolutely. It is a handling suspension, not specifically for drag racing.

Jody

[olds87]

Okay

[olds87]

Do you have to cut some stuff on the rear to order to fit right?

[camcojb]

Do you have to cut some stuff on the rear to order to fit right?


You have to remove the stock spring pads on the rear. You can also mini-tub the car at that time but it is not required. You'll be welding on the new upper/lower/shock brackets, and the front mounts for the upper bars. The front lower bars hook to the stock front spring area of the car. There is also an upper crossmember that gets welded in for the shocks and brackets. It does require some fabricating but all the pieces and instructions are there. You will also need to purchase shocks/springs.

Jody

[olds87]

Can you run a swaybar on the rear like the mule to stiffen up the suspension?

[camcojb]

It comes with a panhard bar for lateral movement. You don't have to use a standard sway bar with this system. However the Mule has one it appears.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Jody

[olds87]

okay. Thanks for talking with me. Take care.

[69speed]

I will be very interested to see how the exhaust fits in there. I had no room over the top when I finished my 4bar setup. Of course, my car is fully tubbed and very low. It was the panhard bar that gave me the most trouble.

[camcojb]

I will be very interested to see how the exhaust fits in there. I had no room over the top when I finished my 4bar setup. Of course, my car is fully tubbed and very low. It was the panhard bar that gave me the most trouble.


It can be done, but is tight. Here's the Mule with almost the same system; hard to see but it fit in there somehow.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Jody

[69bigblock]

Thats good to know about the exhaust. I do have the mandrel bent 3" pipes, but made sure that they didn't weld them on....
That will make a nice winter project :idea:

[VenturaII]

I remember seeing in Popular Hot Rodding how they notched each side of the fuel tank to help get the exhaust through on the Mule.

[Damn True]

Is it just the photo or does the panhard look a bit undersupported?

[Kenny]

I also have a question, is it just the picture or are the upper arms only about half the length of the lowers? I understand sometimes compromise is a fact of life, but to call it a road race system, just doesn't pass the sniff test..... It does make for a pretty install though! Please educate me if I'm off.

[4MuscleMachines]

Third question, do you have to use a special order rear end housing or will it work with the oem on the car?

[Sparky67]

Third question, do you have to use a special order rear end housing or will it work with the oem on the car?

No, you don't have to use a special order rear end housing. I was at the Columbus show, when DSE first showed it. DSE had it setup with a 12 bolt housing. Your better option though would be to sell your 12 bolt rear end, because first generation parts are very high dollar now. Then you could install a new rear end (For example a currie nine inch).

[Damn True]

Anything special required to graft a 12 bolt or 9" into the rear clip?

[TitoJones]

I have a question regarding this as well-
How do you make sure you weld the brackets on the housing in the right spots? Do they supply a jig? I would be worried that you could have the brackets off by a few degrees, or worse yet, not in the right spots and miss the bar locations by a bit.
Also, how do you weld them onto the rear without warping the tubes?

Tyler

[parsonsj]

Also, how do you weld them onto the rear without warping the tubes?

You don't. The housing will have to be straightened if the axle ends are already on. Ideally, you'd weld on your brackets, then have the ends jig-welded on, tested, and straightened in a press if they aren't square. There is simply no way brackets can be welded to the tubes of a rear end housing without affecting the alignment of the axles.

jp

[68protouring454]

So, with all of this considered, what is the TOTAL price of this kit, installed and running??????? It sure seems there's a lot of hidden cost in the kit , as far as straightening axle, welding kit without a jig, which holy **** that could turn out to be a serious mess for people, you would think they would of thought about this before hand., maybe i do not know??

[68protouring454]

So, with all of this considered, what is the TOTAL price of this kit, installed and running??????? It sure seems there's a lot of hidden cost in the kit , as far as straightening axle, welding kit without a jig, which holy **** that could turn out to be a serious mess for people, you would think they would of thought about this before hand., maybe i do not know??,

[camcojb]

So, with all of this considered, what is the TOTAL price of this kit, installed and running??????? It sure seems there's a lot of hidden cost in the kit , as far as straightening axle, welding kit without a jig, which holy **** that could turn out to be a serious mess for people, you would think they would of thought about this before hand., maybe i do not know??


Marquez Design is selling the kit for $1360. which is complete minus coil-overs. The Koni's from DSE are $650/pair with the kit purchase. The rest is fab work on your end.

A couple of things. This kit comes with very good detailed instructions with specific pics and measurements as to where the brackets go. They can also be welded on without distorting the housing tubes if you use your head and do small welds, going side to side to not overheat an area; pretty much how you have to do sheetmetal repair. DSE just did one this way and checked it and it was fine. They do recommend having it checked afterwards, but it is doable if you're careful and take your time.

This is a no-compromise kit as far as fit finish, and how it works. There was concern over upper bar length but the instant center on the car is where it is supposed to be. It flat out works, and if you need specific info on instant-center or anything related get ahold of DSE for more specifics. The bottom line is that like all the rest of their products they do not compromise function. There is no way to make a 4 link a complete bolt-in; you are going to have some cutting, welding, and measuring. But the end product works very well. It is not for everyone, but most of you who build your own cars can install this kit.

Jody

[Camaro Zach]

Don't worry about warping your axle housing. People weld bracekts for link bars on them all the time and have no problems. Just dont weld like a dumb@$$ and put a rediculous amount of heat in one area. The lower bars mount in the origional spring perch so it is EXTREMELY straight forward on installing the lower bars. Then center your axle, set your pinion angle and mock up the upper bars maybe tack them lightly and MEASURE MEASURE MEASURE check everything then weld some and check again and before you know it it'l be done.

[BRIAN]

Not really sure if welding it correctly is being a dumb ass. The best way to have it done is when you purchase your housing just send them the brackets and the instructions.

I have used S&W and the fees are so reasonable there is no reason to do it yourself. They weld them in a jig and also put the ends on at the same time. Welds are beyond perfect so there are no worries later on.

I have in the past attempted to do it myself but you are usually compromising the weld trying to keep the heat down. Just not worth considering the consequences if something goes wrong.

[JoshC]

No, you don't have to use a special order rear end housing. I was at the Columbus show, when DSE first showed it. DSE had it setup with a 12 bolt housing. Your better option though would be to sell your 12 bolt rear end, because first generation parts are very high dollar now. Then you could install a new rear end (For example a currie nine inch).




Very good point. Who makes a rear end that is "ready to go" with this set up? If anyone.

[Camaro Zach]

Not really sure if welding it correctly is being a dumb ass. The best way to have it done is when you purchase your housing just send them the brackets and the instructions.
Ok so your saying by putting exessive heat in one area would be welding correctly? dont think so.. And how would sending them the instructions along with the brackets to be welded on be the best way? They would have no idea of what angle the brackets should be welded at compared to the angle of the pinion. And DSE isnt going to show you what angle because every car is different. The proper way would be to adjust the link bars halfway out and set the pinion angle, that way if something goes wrong and you need to adjust it you have plenty of slack forward/back to adjust. Then once you get the pinion angle set and you know where the brackets need to be welded you can build a jig and weld it yourself or pay someone else to weld it. If your not confident in your welds then maybe you should have someone else do it for you.

[68protouring454]

i do not care who you are, the axle tube will move no matter how you weld it, its just most people would not feel it when driven, thats why alot of guys weld onthere tubes etc and do not have it checked. and yeah to get the proper penetration you will move the tube, whether its spot welds or stich, a street driven car is pretty forgiving to axle runout etc where as something that is raced you do not want any excess as you would not want the bearing to fail
just another added cost to the dse kit
jake

[camcojb]

i do not care who you are, the axle tube will move no matter how you weld it, its just most people would not feel it when driven, thats why alot of guys weld onthere tubes etc and do not have it checked. and yeah to get the proper penetration you will move the tube, whether its spot welds or stich, a street driven car is pretty forgiving to axle runout etc where as something that is raced you do not want any excess as you would not want the bearing to fail
just another added cost to the dse kit
jake


I'm just passing on what Kyle told me. He has done them and they did not move, at least not enough to measure. He does recommend having it checked after welding. If this applies to the DSE kit it applies to every 3 or 4 link conversion, as well as anything that requires you to weld to the axle tubes. I welded the new perches on my Currie rear and took it to the local axle shop; no movement, nothing to straighten.

He will be offering housings with the brackets already installed and straightened if need be. They are not available yet.

Jody

[yody]

well, i welded my axle tubes to my pumpkin and also welded on brackets for the hardline to softline brake lines. It was a good amount of welding, like a goof off i didn't measure anything, but my axles slid in perfectly and rotate great. I would think if there was any binding you would feel it when putting in the axle. Otherwise you guys might be getting too anal.

[68protouring454]

only in extreme cases will the axles not slide in, in most cases there will be excessive misaligment, which in time will eat wheel bearings, you will know once you put some miles on it, you could very well have gotten likely but i bet you got a bit more run out than you would want.
So anyone have any numbers yet for one of these kits installed with shocks etc ready to go?? none of this kit crap cause it isn't a kit if there are more parts to buy.
What does dse get to install this so called complete kit??
jake

[camcojb]

only in extreme cases will the axles not lide in, in most cases there will be excessive run out, which in time will eat wheel bearings, you will know once you put some miles on it, you could very well have gotten likely but i bet you got a bit more run out than you would want.
So anyone have any numbers yet for one of these kits installed with shocks etc redy to go?? none of this kit deal cause it isn't a kit if there are more parts to buy.
What does dse get to installk this so called complete kit??
jake


You're frustrated it seems, but not sure why. I gave the prices earlier, but here they are again:

DSE Quadra Link = $1360
Koni coil overs and springs = $650./pair

installation, you'd need to get ahold of DSE, I have no idea what they charge. This is all the parts you'll need.

Jody

[yody]

Kudos to Jake for being one frustrated dude!

[68protouring454]

yeah, thanks for the kudos.
jody, will you guys ever be offering installation or just sales of the dse stuff??? i just want an idea of how much time is envolved and total cost, so i can make ther best decision i can on rear suspension and it just seems like there are other things that pop up, that are needed with this. what do places around the country charge for re aligning a rear?? Also no one has any numbers yet onthe hrs to complete this swap?? i guess its time to call dse so i can get some answers

[camcojb]

yeah, thanks for the kudos.
jody, will you guys ever be offering installation or just sales of the dse stuff??? i just want an idea of how much time is envolved and total cost, so i can make ther best decision i can on rear suspension and it just seems like there are other things that pop up, that are needed with this. what do places around the country charge for re aligning a rear?? Also no one has any numbers yet onthe hrs to complete this swap?? i guess its time to call dse so i can get some answers


Jake, As far as I know DSE is the only one to install one so far. We got the first kits sold outside their shop, and they only shipped late last week, so I don't think they've been out long enough to have anyone install one.

Marquez Design does install all the DSE products. We have two 4 links in line now, but haven't received the kit yet to be able to tell you how hard the install is and how long it took.

Jody

[68protouring454]

thanks, please let us know how the install goes, and how the welding went on the rear end, it would be nice to hear how the install goes .
i guess even dse as trouble getting products out, i thought the kits were to be sent out the first of august.
jake

[70ptta]

is there a kit like this for a 2nd gen f body

[69injun]

First I have talked to Kyle several times in the past and have to say their customer service is second to none. Just to give you an idea what a great company DSE is remember that when they moved from MI to NC every employee left MI with them and made the move. You have to have a great work enviroment to have that kind of dedication. I have installed their coil over conversion kit on my firebird subframe and had no problems and I am no profesional installer. And as far as the extra costs, I challenge you to find any kit that doesn't have the extra costs you are talking about. I don't know what you expect that a shop charges for checking and straightening a rear end, but it is like and engine rebuild. Would you rebuild an engine and not get it cleaned and magnafluxed first. The cost is not that much, but it can be priceless in that it makes sure everything is as it should be.

[68protouring454]

sorry i touched a nerve but for someone who does not work for dse, you seem very loyal, i am just askin questions, is that ok??
jake

[69injun]

Well yup I think those who have delt with and talked to the folks at DSE, become pretty loyal. But also I believe that this system is a compromize. I know they have been working on it since the mule came out. I know Kyle told me about it at least a year or two ago I think. And I believe that it took so long to be a production piece because they were not going to put it out until it was up to DSE standards. And that being said it is to be the best handling 4link that still allows the back seat to be in place. So if you just want a two seater streat fighter then you may want a different system. I haveing a family with 3 boys I need a back seat. So like most things it is about compromises. All out performace at the track or room for five, or room for five with the best handling you can have with a back seat. And I dont think your extra cost figures are any different than it would be for anyone elses stuff. And I have to say again that if you check the price for checking and straightening a rear are not that bad. But I would give Kyle a call, he is a great guy to talk to and is perfectly willing to sit and listen to you tell him about your car, and offer any help he can. I haven't made it up yet but I live about two hours from their new shop and he is allways inviting me to stop by and pay them a visit.

[alstainlessworks]

If anyone in the midwest is getting this kit with DSE mini tubs, please contact us. We would like to make a tailpipe pattern to work with this kit-we now have one for the Air-Ride air bar kit, and want to be able to supply one for the DSE kit. We are located in Cleveland, Ohio.

Thanks
Al
Stainless Works

[rob07002]

I'll volunteer my convertible if anyone wants to use it as a "test mule"....and see how it works on a drop top.

Kyle you out there?

[ZX10R]

how much does DSE charge "roughly" "guesstimate" for a mini-tub on a stock 68 or 69 camaro to enable the use of 335's in the rear to run this rear suspension setup? 5k? 8k? 10k?

[ProdigyCustoms]

It is a 50 our job on a coupe.

[ZX10R]

It is a 50 our job on a coupe.

what are you referring to?

[sinned]

Just to give you an idea what a great company DSE is remember that when they moved from MI to NC every employee left MI with them and made the move.Actually to be completely accurate you would have to say every employee that was still employed at the date of the move because I know of one who left just before the move.



Absolutely. It is a handling suspension, not specifically for drag racing. Well , that is an opinion because a parellel 4-link is not a "handling" suspension. It may work better than the leafs but there are many "better" options for a handling suspesnion.

[madmax]

what are you referring to?

I think he left out the 'h' in 'hour'. So it just turned into our :)

-Max

[camcojb]

Well , that is an opinion because a parellel 4-link is not a "handling" suspension. It may work better than the leafs but there are many "better" options for a handling suspesnion.

You can fly with leaf springs. You can go even faster with DSE's 4-link. Both systems set up right are more than nearly everyone on this board can possibly need. There might be a handful of guys here at PT who can outdrive this system. So for the masses it's an excellent setup and gives the ride height adjustability.

Jody

[yody]

You can fly with leaf springs. You can go even faster with DSE's 4-link. Both systems set up right are more than nearly everyone on this board can possibly need. There might be a handful of guys here at PT who can outdrive this system. So for the masses it's an excellent setup and gives the ride height adjustability.

Jody


Hmm, and you know this how? have you test driven a car with this suspension? Has DSE done any back to back comparisons? What about it gives ride height adjustability, the coilovers? that is totally seperate, that is because of the shock/spring not the DSE part. So how do you know how "almost eveyrone on this board" can drive or does? Because you don't race your cars doesn't mean everyone else doesn't, or that it is good enough for you does Not mean everyone else would be satisfied. Sounded like a "personal opinion" of yours that reflects your driving habits and car skills.

Now there is truth to your statement and the DSE kit is not a bad piece. However as someone who sells the kit and is obviously advertising it(you), you really have to bring more than that to the table. You out of all people should know that statements like that are going to be picked apart. I somewhat agree with you, if you would of said the exact same thing but substituted "I" in there I would totatlly agree. I am no hardcore racer and I couldn't really tell you without driving a car equipped with that suspension if it was good enough for me or not. But I wouldn't tell everyone on the board that only a small percent of them don't need anything better, especially without either proven data or personal experience. :rolleyes5

BTW the questions I have asked are just questions, so If you have driven with the suspension or have techincal data then please post it so we can see how this suspension works, instead of just figuring it works well since DSE made it(which I believe know what they are doing)

[camcojb]

Jesus Yody, here we go again. I've had every car I've built on a track. Drag strip, and I know that's not what you're talking about. I am not a suspension guru, but then again neither are you. I am a DSE dealer but if I didn't think the stuff worked I would not have entered the thread. My "experience" comes from speaking with people who have raced these suspensions, noteably Mark Stielow. Way beyond an average driver and he's the one who told me what I wrote above as far as the 4 link and leaf springs. He's fast enough to be a pro if he wanted to, has been a lap or two in these cars with these suspensions, and I trust what he says.

Is there a better rear suspension for road racing? Absolutely, but DSE built this as a nice compromise for fit and ease of installation, for street and track. I've ridden and driven in the Mule (4-link) and the Thrasher (leaf spring) and both corner VERY well in my opinion, as well as Marks.

My remark on the handful of very good drivers didn't include you or I! :woot:

Jody

[yody]

Why I have been praised before, but never called "jesus"....how about "godfather" that has a better ring to it :) the suspension does sound good, but like you said I am no suspension guru by a far stretch! lol, :wedgie:

[camcojb]

Why I have been praised before, but never called "jesus"....how about "godfather" that has a better ring to it :)

:cheers:

Jody

[yody]

now just wait for dennis to get ahold of this thread.......better hope there not using polyurethane in the link ends :crying:

[camcojb]

Dennis knows more than me about this stuff. I can debate some things like engine building, efi tuning, painting, etc. but I am not any kind of suspension guru. So I find someone I trust and use their recommendations.

Dennis is a smart guy and obviously knows what he's talking about. In my opinion anyway! A three link may be more ideal for handling. I believe that DSE has enough experience to build a hard-core rear racing suspension. But again, they like to sell the parts they develop and the market would be MUCH smaller in my opinion for this, especially since a race setup isn't going to be a lot of fun on the street; now you can start compromising, but you know how that goes.

The DSE 4-link isn't a hardcore roadrace setup, but wasn't built to be. The quality is very nice and the swivel end links are very cool. Again, my opinion from a know-nothing suspension geek! :jump:

Jody

[yody]

yeah dennis know something or other. Pretty soon their first gen guys are going to have some good choices, the DSE kit and Mean69's three link kit will cover pretty much what al the protouring guys need, you want track duty hardcore handling you can go with the 3 link, if you want smooth drivablity but will give up some hanlding you have the DSE kit, too bad i have a second gen!

[zbugger]

They're apparently working on 2nd gen stuff. From what I've heard, they're looking at how their 4-link will package in a 2nd gen. This however is second hand knowledge, so I can't be positive on it.

[Sparky67]

now just wait for dennis to get ahold of this thread.......better hope there not using polyurethane in the link ends :crying:


NOT POLYURETHANE! Poly is plastic these appear to be similar to 1LE Camaro bushings, which is a high durometer (firmer) rubber bushing.

Jeff

[madmax]

Can a stock gas tank be used with the 4-link? I couldn't remember if the offset shackles or the tubs interfered with it. If it can be used, sweet! The expense of narrowing the tank that can be written off to justify me getting the 4-link.

Thanks,
Max

[BRIAN]

Beyond all the BS I have a question. Do you know what the ride height is when set up properly ie bars parallel or ? Just curious as to how it would sit. If you have measurement from frame to axle that would be perfect.

[sjg34]

I was told by DSE the stock tank will still fit

[madmax]

I was told by DSE the stock tank will still fit

Sweet!

Thanks for the info. There is a $100 towards the system :).

Max