Project GNXcess...Twin Turbocharged, 6.0 Powered '83 Regal T-Type!!!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

My parents bought a new, black 1986 Regal T-Type when I was 16 years old, and I have loved these cars ever since. I went on to buy a T-Type of my own in the early 90s, and it got me back and forth to UGA. That one got a color change (from silver to black), a new exhaust sytem, and a chip, and that was about it...money was tight, and my other cars; a 1957 Chevy BelAir with a 327 and a 4 speed, and a 1963 Nova SS with a 377/TH350, and a 9" rear; got most of my attention. I reluctantly sold the car at the GS Nats in 1995, and used the money to put a down payment on my first new car: a 1995 Z-28.

Since the first time I drove a turbo Buick, I loved it, but the sound and instant torque of a V-8 just wasn't there. I couldn't help but think back then how cool it would be to apply the technology of that turbocharged 3.8 to a V-8, and make and easy, drivable, 600hp. That was the 1980s, and that kind of power in a modern fuel injected car was unheard of. I had thoughts of finding a clean, standard Regal and building a GN clone, but with a 455, fuel injection, and a pair of GN turbos. That project, like many others, has stayed in my head all these years, and now, a quarter of a century later, its time has come.

Project Grocery Getter, a 1983 Malibu wagon with an LS376/480hp/4L70E that we did last summer for our late friend, Tom Gerrard, directly led to this project. For one thing, it got me behind the wheel of a G-body again, for a solid week, on the Hot Rod Power Tour. It also led to a literary project, which I can't go into detail about yet. This car will be featured throughout, as we tear it down to a bare shell, and bring it back with some of the best parts on the market. RideTech (suspension), BRP/Musclerods (mounts and headers), Chris Alston's Chassisworks (14 point roll cage), ISIS Power (electrical system), RnD Fabrication (radiator, and possibly the intercooler), GNS Performance (lighting, fender braces, GNX fender vents,and possibly more), Metco Motorsports (fuel rails, breathers, etc.) and many others will be showcasing their products here. Ben Weissman, SRD ART here on the board, will be doing the rendering.

Since someone before me already blasphemed by pulling the carbureted 3.8 turbo engine (no loss there) and replacing it with a carbureted Vortec 350, I have no problem building this car with a "corporate" engine! Plans include a 6.0 litre LQ4/LQ9 block with a forged rotating assembly, LS3-type heads (exact specs yet to be determined), and a modified set of BRP headers to accomodate twin turbochargers. I can't bring myself to put an automatic in this car, so it will be getting a T-56. Color is undecided for now, but it will definitely be dark, and all trim will be blacked out. I'll use an '87 GN style grille and header panel, and the fenders will be flared slightly (no bolt on flares for this one). I'll get the pics of the starting point up tomorrow!


Here is the rendering by Ben of http://www.streetroddesigns.com

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/GNXSproof3-1.jpg

[SS PUNISHER]

Should be awesome!
Can't wait to see how this turns out

[csouth]

You really have your hands full over there Joe...lol

[SparkyRnD]

and it's only going to increase! These guys do some great work, and word is quickly getting out.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

You really have your hands full over there Joe...lol

Chris, we're bursting at the seams, and will probably be hiring at least 1 or 2 more full time guys soon, just to handle the current workload. We're also weighing our options on possibly moving to a larger building, though I'm not sure I want to give this one up since the visibility is so good. I can't complain though, being this busy is a good problem to have.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The pics.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0735-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0729-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0728-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0740-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0727-1.jpg

The car is a T-Type Limited, so it has the "casket handle" door pulls, and the rocker moldings, both of which will be going away. Interestingly enough, it has manual windows, which is pretty odd for a Limited. I'm debating on keeping that...changing it ove will be easy enough.

It was funny, yesterday when we went to pick the car up (in the 'hood, in West Atlanta/Austell near Six Flags), the owner brought something to my attention that I had somehow missed. He was pointing at the VIN tag, and said " I knew this car was a bad ************ when I saw AK47 in the VIN numba!" Sure enough, all '83 T-Types have "AK47" in the VIN. I'm almost as into guns as I am cars, and have a couple AKs myself, so that sealed it! If I hadn't already named the project, I'd call it "Angel King"!

BTW, the engine in the car now runs great. Its a Vortec 350 from a late 90s truck, with an Edlebrock carb and intake, and a new set of headers. If anyone needs a good engine to drop into a project, hit me up. I'll be pulling it in a few days, along with the TH2004R.

[ProStreetZ28]

I can't wait to see this project come together! A twin turbo LS engine in a T-Type should be sweet!

[Protournova]

Like you my Dad owned a T-Type when I was 16.. The first "hot rod" I ever drove, been hooked ever since.. keep the updates comin.. Subscribed

[carguykeith]

I actually kind of like the color scheme it has now, I seriously considered a Foose style 2-tone with silver and black when I painted mine but was overwhelmed enough just doing a solid color.

Mine was a limited also, and I found A LOT of jute and sound padding all over the place that was saturated with water and who knows what else. I would guess 30lbs worth of worthless crap came out of the car by removing it all...

Oh and LOVE the motor choice! If I were buidling my car today, that is the exact motor I would build (though probably single turbo to keep it simpler).

[SicMonte]

Ok....sunscribed to this thread!!!

I am planning on doing a 6.0L in my monte. I got a free LQ4 out of my buddy's 01 2500. Please please please take a lot of pics of the motor build/swap. Any info on the motor build would be awesome!!

I like the fact that you are blacking out the car...seems to be a common theme these days!! You already know that I love this theme...see signature lol.

Looking very forward to the progress on this build!!! Maybe this build will result in some g body specific parts??

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Ok....sunscribed to this thread!!!

I am planning on doing a 6.0L in my monte. I got a free LQ4 out of my buddy's 01 2500. Please please please take a lot of pics of the motor build/swap. Any info on the motor build would be awesome!!

I like the fact that you are blacking out the car...seems to be a common theme these days!! You already know that I love this theme...see signature lol.

Looking very forward to the progress on this build!!! Maybe this build will result in some g body specific parts??

There will be tons of pictures of this project, so don't worry about that...along with a full listing of what was used, and where it came from. This is my personal vehicle, and a "shop car", so once its done (and probably before!), it will be driven extensively, and driven hard. Like Sparky's Project Sabre, this one is going to be autocrossed (with all the boost dialed out of it, of course), but I'm also going to try my hand at other forms of racing, too. You'll see it on Power Tour, and as many American Streetcar Series, LSx Fest, and Goodguys events as possible, and my ultimate goal...Bonneville (2013).

New parts being developed as a part of this build are a distinct possibility, but we'll also be showcasing a lot of other parts that will be new to the market. All in all, there are lots of good parts on the way for G-bodies, particularly Regals.

[ProTourGSX]

No love for Regal/GN/T-type here, so your project is already an improvement (replacing 3.8L with LS* powerplant)! Looking forward to seeing concept & progress!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

No love for Regal/GN/T-type here, so your project is already an improvement (replacing 3.8L with LS* powerplant)! Looking forward to seeing concept & progress!

I could never pull a "real" turbo Buick motor...one of the '86-'87 intercooled versions...but a hot air motor, I would have no issues. Fortunately someone along the line replaced it with a nice Vortec 350 anyway. I mainly wanted a T-Type for 8.5 rear (which I later discovered the '83s don't have), the Hydro-Boost, and of course, the hood. That stuff alone is worth what I paid for the car.

[SicMonte]

Will you have this done by RTTS? I'll be there and challenge you to a duel!!! lol

BTW...I've been to bonneville...and if you need any "pit help" I'm available...just saying.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Will you have this done by RTTS? I'll be there and challenge you to a duel!!! lol

BTW...I've been to bonneville...and if you need any "pit help" I'm available...just saying.

Its doubtful...I don't even have the engine yet...but who knows? I may throw a stock short block in it, and a set of long tubes, and go for it. The turbo setup likely won't be done by then. I'll be in touch on the Bonneville offer, though, for sure!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Jeff from BRP came by earlier to drop off some parts for another project (Lonestar), but he'll be back tomorrow night with my mounts and a couple of sets of headers for GNXcess. One set, the long tubes, are mainly for mockup...the other set will be the basis of our turbo headers, if all goes according to plan. We'll be pulling the 350 out this weekend sometime, and mocking everything up with another engine I have on hand.

[rfalker1]

im interested!!! Best of luck

[monteboy84]

I love it, subscribed.

-matt

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Its funny, I haven't been able to sleep all week, because I'm so anxious to get to work everyday to work on all these cool cars! And finally, doing one for myself again!

[monteboy84]

I hear ya on that one. I left my car in storage for nearly 7 years without really touching it, now that I have it back out to work on it I can't stop thinking about it.

-matt

[csouth]

:
Chris, we're bursting at the seams, and will probably be hiring at least 1 or 2 more full time guys soon, just to handle the current workload. We're also weighing our options on possibly moving to a larger building, though I'm not sure I want to give this one up since the visibility is so good. I can't complain though, being this busy is a good problem to have.

Well I think I know one of your potential employees...:secret: I understand about you being hesitant about moving, your location is very visible. It definitely needs to be weighed out because we know in business location can make or break you....

That car is really clean. It will definitely make a nice piece once finished. Thats if you ever have time...lol

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Since I have several commitments based on this car, I'll have to make time. I can't sleep half the time anyway, might as well be at the shop!

[csouth]

Since I have several commitments based on this car, I'll have to make time. I can't sleep half the time anyway, might as well be at the shop!

Can you say "futon"?....lol

[BulldawgMusclecars]

If I was a sinlge guy, there would already be one here! I've got a shower, fridge, and 1 full bath and 2 half baths...who needs a house/apartment!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Tomorrow the small block/TH-2004R will come out of GNXcess...can't wait! :firefire:

[kmdracer]

Awesome. I tried to talk my Dad into buying a GN when they came out. He went with a pale yellow base Regal instead.

[deejai35]

Another nice project. My mom had an 83 Buick Regal growing up. Ive always like those G-bodies.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I really think these cars' (G-bodies in general, and Regals in particular) time has come. They are still available, cheap (by the standards of just about any other project car), and the aftermarket is growing. You could build a nice Regal for less than a nice starting point 1st gen Camaro, and actually have something different.

[SS PUNISHER]

I personally prefer regals over any other g body. I can stare at a GN all day and not wanna change a thing but then I look at my monte and the gears start grinding.....

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I picked up the BRP/ MuscleRods swap kit and headers tonight on my way home. The headers are 1 7/8 longtubes, which I'm mocking up for BRP. The headers I'll actually use are being built at Hedman/Husler in nearby Alpharetta GA. They will be midlength, and uncoated, so we can modify them for the twins.

[Protournova]

If I was a single guy, there would already be one here! I've got a shower, fridge, and 1 full bath and 2 half baths...who needs a house/apartment!

So how do you hold back the smile when the better half sends you to the "dog"house... sorry for the cheap pun but I couldn't help myself.

[carguykeith]

Would be great to see some definitive pics showing the BRP kit and 1 7/8 headers fit in a G-body, ls1tech.com had conflicting reports.

[gardnerme]

This build is going to be dangerous for me. I had an '87 Turbo T WE-4/WO-2 car for about 16 years and I still love the lines of that body. My fear is that since I have direct access to watch this one progress in person that I am going to feel the need to pick one up and play "copy-cat" of sorts. It will be fun to watch, Joe!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

So how do you hold back the smile when the better half sends you to the "dog"house... sorry for the cheap pun but I couldn't help myself.

We're still newlyweds (been together almost 5 years, married for almost 10 months), so no dawg (Georgia spelling!) house yet!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Would be great to see some definitive pics showing the BRP kit and 1 7/8 headers fit in a G-body, ls1tech.com had conflicting reports.

I have installed this combo before, in a 1983 Malibu Wagon (Project Grocery Getter), and had absolutely no issues with fitment. It is a very tight fit, but they do fit. You just have to get everything perfectly aligned, and they fall into place. I did trim the edge of the plastic inner fender on the passenger side (IIRC), but that was mainly because they were cheap repros and I thought it might melt.

I'll take plenty of pics this time around, showing the clearance, so there won't be any doubts. Hopefully the basis for my turbo headers will be done in a few days (they didn't have any uncoated ones on hand, since they only sell them coated normally). If they work out well, we may be marketing our own G-body turbo headers, based on them. I doubt Hedman would want to build such a specialized header themselves, though I will run it by them first.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

This build is going to be dangerous for me. I had an '87 Turbo T WE-4/WO-2 car for about 16 years and I still love the lines of that body. My fear is that since I have direct access to watch this one progress in person that I am going to feel the need to pick one up and play "copy-cat" of sorts. It will be fun to watch, Joe!

The WE-4 is one of my favorite turbo Buicks; a good friend of mine from Conyers had one. Get the rack in your Camaro yet, Mike?

[SparkyRnD]

yep, he installed and posted pics in his Camaro thread

[gardnerme]

The WE-4 is one of my favorite turbo Buicks; a good friend of mine from Conyers had one. Get the rack in your Camaro yet, Mike?

I did! As soon as you tell me you have a parking space for it, I will bring it to you. I am eager for you to start your magic!



OK - maybe not really "as soon as."

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I should have two gone this weekend, so we'll have room! I'll keep you posted.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The goodies we got from BRP/Musclerods. The headers are their 1 7/8 longtubes.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0778-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0779-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0780-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0781-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0782-1.jpg

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Customer cars come first, but we did get the mangled deck lid changed out today, and started stripping the interior. Someone is coming by tomorrow to hopefully buy the engine, but either way its getting pulled out no later than Friday. I'm ready to get an LS motor sitting in there! Initially we'll just be doing a mockup, with another engine we have lying around. Anyone local have a good 6.0 iron block for sale? I just need the block, since everything else will be new.

[SRD art]

Hey Joe- I've been absolutely buried with school last few days and didn't realize you started this thread, so a belated congrats on getting a decent car to work with. AK47, now that's funny.

I agree. I've always been a hard core Nova fan, but since buying a G-body about 4-5 years ago for a driver I found my second favorite ride. When I first bought one I read that they were good drag cars but not much else. Thanks to some dedicated G-body fans that's all changing, and I can't wait to see when there's as many G-bodies as there are F and A bodies from the GM side at events. I know I'm building mine with full intent to whoop some F-body tail on the autocross and road courses.

I still don't know what to do with my street-strip Nova's small block, I've had no luck selling it locally so I'm thinking a sleeper G-body set up for playing with the imports in drift racing may be not far down the road. Would be fun to pull up to events with the wagon towing a 79 Cutlass coupe set up for slidin' sideways. Anyways 'nuff about my cars, just glad to see the "GNX" project has started rolling. If I weren't so far away I'd love to help you get it built. ;)

..."Hold on tight, this AK47 has more kick than you might expect!" Lol!...

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks Ben! I just sold the long block to a guy on Craigslist, to put it in his cargo van! I was asking $950, but since he didn't need the Edelbrock Vortec intake, the Edelbrock 1406 carb (new), the non-CC HEI with Accel Super Coil, or the chrome long tube headers, I gave him a discount...to $800...since he had no use for any of that stuff! Already sold the carb to another member here! More $$$ for the LS build! A friend of mine is getting me a sweet deal on a new-in-the-crate 6.0 iron block (less than $600 delivered!), and the rest of the proceeds will go towards either my rotating assembly, or a set of heads.

The Ak-47 thing cracks me up...when the former owner said it, I couldn't help but think of Samuel L. Jackson in "Jackie Brown"!

(not work/kids safe for language!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z2ucmARq-k

[SRD art]

Ha! Well since all that stuff was really worth only $150, I'd say he got a good deal. Lol!!! ;)

Sounds like a great plan!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

LONG day! We got the 350 pulled, and its now waiting on a dolly for its new owner to come by in the morning. Now that the engine is out of the way, we'll continue the teardown tomorrow (front clip, HVAC, and interior). The pillow back seats and "casket handle" door pulls have to go!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I'm getting my parts list together for the engine, and so far this is what it looks like:
- new 6.0 LQ4 block, bored to 4.030
-Eagle forged LS7-spec crank (enables the use of an LS7 dry sump system)
-Eagle H-Beam 6.125 rods
-Mahle 20cc dished pistons (L76)
-GMPP CNC Ported LS3 heads
-Holley 300-117 intake (won't clear the hood, I'm sure, but that is being addressed :headbang:

Still working on thecm specs, fuel delivery, turbos, etc. but this is a good start.

[csouth]

LONG day! We got the 350 pulled, and its now waiting on a dolly for its new owner to come by in the morning. Now that the engine is out of the way, we'll continue the teardown tomorrow (front clip, HVAC, and interior). The pillow back seats and "casket handle" door pulls have to go!

Whats wrong with casket handles and pillow back seats?...lol

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Whats wrong with casket handles and pillow back seats?...lol

In a luxury-oriented car? Nothing. They don't really go with the theme here, though!

[csouth]

In a luxury-oriented car? Nothing. They don't really go with the theme here, though!


I was totally kidding.....

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I was totally kidding.....
I thought so, just forgot the smiley! :lol:

[Protournova]

Keep the seats I think you can take him in the 1/4:

http://www.break.com/index/the-gas-powered-la-z-boy.html

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Keep the seats I think you can take him in the 1/4:

http://www.break.com/index/the-gas-powered-la-z-boy.html

Just what I need, another project idea...

[Protournova]

Admit it yur already thinking "tube chassis, twin with a turbo...etc." LOL!

[csouth]

What are you actually looking to do with the interior? I bought seats for mine a long time ago, but I'm unsure now.... Thats what happens when projects take forever to complete...:hand:

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The interior is going to be pretty much stock appearing, but black...I was never a fan of the light gray, or gray and black of the T-Types and GNs. I'll use aftermarket front seats though...something supportive, possibly Corbeaus. There will be a cage, too, but I'm building it with several venues in mind. reminds me, I need to get an SCTA rule book... :hmm:

[linkstar69]

6.0 and twins, I'm keen to watch this one.

[SS PUNISHER]

I'm gonna be watchin this one a little closer now.....

[csouth]

The interior is going to be pretty much stock appearing, but black...I was never a fan of the light gray, or gray and black of the T-Types and GNs. I'll use aftermarket front seats though...something supportive, possibly Corbeaus. There will be a cage, too, but I'm building it with several venues in mind. reminds me, I need to get an SCTA rule book... :hmm:

I'm debating if I want to keep my GTO seats or go to a race seat like a Recaro or Corbeau...

[SRD art]

Just what I need, another project idea...

Is that the infield of a Nascar race? You might be a redneck if your recliner is as fast as your pick up...

Out here in Utard they fancy going 50+mph on bar stools...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euhMm1R9Uuo

I guess this guy one upped the diesek starter motor powered electric ones though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caZRyH4ueAg

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I took the day off today, but still wound up going to Pull-A-Part in search of Regal parts. I scored a complete dash in gray, minus the instrument cluster which I wouldn't use anyway. It's in better shape than my original, and doesn't appear to have been doused in silicone like it does. More than likely it will be dyed black.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The front end sheetmetal is coming off, and everything under the hood is being removed right now, including the HVAC system. Pics shortly!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

A little progress...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0812-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_0813-1.jpg

[Ppd1979]

Had 88 g-body from when I was 16 till 30, always loved and can't wait to get another.
Subscribing to this thread.

[sokoloka]

I still see some HVAC in there!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I still see some HVAC in there!

Yeah, we got a little sidetracked on another project...but its on the way out!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0818-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0819-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0820-1.jpg

[SicMonte]

Looks aweful familiar.......lol.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Right now, it just looks awful!

[carguykeith]

That's the only way to do it, just rip all of that crap out of there!

[jackfrost]

Looks aweful familiar.......lol.

yeah... looks identical to my project. :)

[BulldawgMusclecars]

A little more progress.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0831-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0830-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0829-1.jpg

Some rust in the passenger rear floorpan...I knew it was there, no big deal.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0828-1.jpg

Bumper and tank removed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0827-1.jpg

[Protournova]

Still looks to be in good shape. Gotta be feeling good at this point!

[BLWN1]

Curious to see how the twin headers work out.. I ve been looking at a few of the stainless works setups for mine or my corvette.. still undecided.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Curious to see how the twin headers work out.. I ve been looking at a few of the stainless works setups for mine or my corvette.. still undecided.

Me too. I should have the basis for them Monday night, so I'll try to get the motor mocked up in place before then. If they work out, and they are interested, it may be come a production piece. If they aren't interested, I may just offer then myself. I figure there is a market for this, without the higher cost of a 321 stainless header.

[BLWN1]

Keep me posted, stainless ones are 900-1000 range for twin headers.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Sure thing! Here are a few quick shots I took while the Regal was outside today, getting a much needed underhood bath. You can see the quarter panel damage in this shot...it got us a great deal on this car, and won't be terribly difficult to fix.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0842-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0843-1.jpg

Factory Hydro-Boost.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0844-1.jpg

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I just checked the FedEx tracking #s...my RideTech suspension will be here tomorrow!:firefire::drool::twothumbs:bananna2::woo t::headbang:

[SicMonte]

I just checked the FedEx tracking #s...my RideTech suspension will be here tomorrow!:firefire::drool::twothumbs:bananna2::woo t::headbang:

what did you get from Ridetech??

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The complete coilover suspension system, front and rear. I think there may be a few other goodies in there, too, but I'll wait 'til they get here so I know for sure!

[SicMonte]

The complete coilover suspension system, front and rear. I think there may be a few other goodies in there, too, but I'll wait 'til they get here so I know for sure!

Let me know if you need any help with setting up those rear coil overs. I just got mine all done and had to use some differnt parts to get the ride height I wanted.

I havent done the fronts yet...keep me informed on those!!

I am doing the write up on the rears as we speak.


Just got the write up done for the rears....

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?86978-Ridetech-G-Body-Rear-Coilover-Install

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Let me know if you need any help with setting up those rear coil overs. I just got mine all done and had to use some differnt parts to get the ride height I wanted.

I havent done the fronts yet...keep me informed on those!!

I am doing the write up on the rears as we speak.


Just got the write up done for the rears....

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?86978-Ridetech-G-Body-Rear-Coilover-Install

Thanks! Should be here within the next couple hours...

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Wouldn't you know, within minutes of the last post FedEx showed up! I got the front and rear RideTech StrongArms, plus the coil overs for front and rear, the MuscleBar front sway bar, and the rear swaybar, with all the hardware. As usual, everything was very well packed with dense foam padding, so that everything arrived in great shape. I'll post pics shortly, and hopefully have everything installed by the end of the day! Many thanks to Bret Voelkel, Jason, Darren, and everyone else at RideTech!

[SicMonte]

Wouldn't you know, within minutes of the last post FedEx showed up! I got the front and rear RideTech StrongArms, plus the coil overs for front and rear, the MuscleBar front sway bar, and the rear swaybar, with all the hardware. As usual, everything was very well packed with dense foam padding, so that everything arrived in great shape. I'll post pics shortly, and hopefully have everything installed by the end of the day! Many thanks to Bret Voelkel, Jason, Darren, and everyone else at RideTech!

By the end of the day??????? Def take pics of the front coilover install...Im curious as to what Im about to undertake!!

What spring rates did you go with?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

By the end of the day??????? Def take pics of the front coilover install...Im curious as to what Im about to undertake!!

What spring rates did you go with?

Oh, I'll take plenty of pics! I'm not sure what spring rates they sent yet...I did tell them I was using an iron block LS and a T-56...but I'll find out shortly. I got tied up on the phone before I could get the coilover boxes open.

[Streetbu]

Can't wait to see how this comes out!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Christmas time at Bulldawg Musclecars!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0906-1.jpg

I had previously mocked up this spindle, which is a Belltech 2" dropped 1998-up S10 Blazer 2WD spindle. They are a direct bolt-on, use a replaceable hub, and with the stock S10 Blazer rotor and caliper are a good G-body upgrade. We have different plans, though, and are using a KORE3 bracket set to allow us to bolt up Corvette C5 or C6 rotors and calipers. More on that later.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0907-1.jpg

The frame and hardware look pretty crusty, but it doesn't take much effort to buzz that down to bare steel.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0904-1.jpg

I didn't get as far on this today as I would have liked, but more tomorrow!

[CornHusker4Life]

I dont think I every had that good of christmas. Excellent parts and even nicer work!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks! It feels a little strange working on something of my own again!

I got a little sidetracked on the Buick yesterday, and decided to test fit the new steering shaft, then remove the shaft and box to clean up the frame rails a bit before mocking up the new suspension. I hope to get back to the suspension later today.

We have a LOT on the agenda for the next 6 weeks on this car...frame notching, mini-tubbing, frame reinforcements/boxing, roll cage, a quarter panel replacement, some floorpan work, and a whole new firewall. We'll also have an LS1/T56 combo thrown in for mockup, and start laying out the headers and turbo plumbing. Unfortunately, I don't think the ones BRP sent are going to work...with the mods they need, I'll probably be better off starting from scratch. I wanted stainless anyway, since I only plan to build this car once.

[csouth]

I dont think I every had that good of christmas. Excellent parts and even nicer work!

Yeah, that definitely qualifies for Christmas in February :santa3: ....Joe you have to be one of the hardest working guys here. Hats off to you....

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Chris, this is my passion and I'm lucky enough to be able to do this full time now. I wear a lot of different hats around here...manager, builder, business owner, marketer, and customer service...and it takes a lot of time. If I didn't love it, I wouldn't be able to do it. I work nearly twice the hours each week I did in my last position as a stockbroker, and I never get tired of it. Tired, yes...tired of what I am doing, no.

[SRD art]

I'm right there with ya Joe. How can you do something you love and get tired of it?

When my bones don't work like they're supposed to is when I quit building hot rods. Sort of like when Richard Petty finally retired, at that point it was just time and he probably wouldn't have if people weren't concerned about him.

[scogin918]

You would think that in time, somebody would come up with a replacement frame for the G-bodies. I know form experience that there is absolutely no room to do anything. Especially in the back wheelwells. Have fun. I am looking forward to see how this turns out.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

Get the ride tech stuff installed yet?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

You would think that in time, somebody would come up with a replacement frame for the G-bodies. I know form experience that there is absolutely no room to do anything. Especially in the back wheelwells. Have fun. I am looking forward to see how this turns out.. Schwartz makes one, and Morrison has done one too, for the Holley GP, but it was a one off and isn't a bolt in.

[TomT]

Cool build Joe!

I'm looking forward to seeing your progress.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Get the ride tech stuff installed yet?

Still working on it!

[SicMonte]

tick...tock...tick...tock...

Just messing with you!! I havent even started on my front coil overs yet...im stalling big time!!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Yeah, its been one of those days for about the last week...every time I get off the phone with a customer, and get started back on it, the phone rings again! I really need a receptionist! Plus, it doesn't help that I'm documenting everything I do, and one thing leads to another. I decided to do a quick wire brushing of the front frame section so that it would photograph better (I'm pretty OCD...I didn't want to get any grease on my new RideTech parts!). I was going to remove the steering box, but I'm switching over to a Jeep steering shaft, so I went ahead and mocked that up. I also started removing the Hydroboost, since we'll be starting on the new firewall soon. At least the dash is out, so that went quickly.

[scogin918]

. Schwartz makes one, and Morrison has done one too, for the Holley GP, but it was a one off and isn't a bolt in.

I missed the Schwartz one. Just watched the video on it and it was really nice. A little on the high side, but it depends on what your goals are I guess.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

We're dealing with a little "while we're at it" right now. It started off, I was just going to mock up the suspension...but the frame was pretty nasty, so I cleaned it up a little first. I wanted to test fit a Jeep steering shaft before removing the steering box, which needed to come off to clean up the frame, so I stopped to do that. We had a 525hp LS3 that had been mocked up in another project, and a T56 in another still, and since we had the BRP mounts and 1 7/8 longtubes on hand, we figured this was a good time to do the mockup on that, too....so off came the original engine mounts. So, the engine and headers are in, and the suspension is in progress. Please note that the headers are not the turbo headers...these are a pair of conventional longtubes that I wanted to demonstrate. The actual headers we will run are going to have to be built from scratch, since there isn't anything in BRP's inventory that is easily adapted to a turbo setup.

The old steering coupler, or as its more commonly called, rag joint.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0923-1.jpg

The Jeep piece that replaced it:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0930-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0933-1.jpg

Mocked up with the Belltech 2 inch dropped spindles ('98-'02 S10 Blazer 2WD). I probably won't be able to use them with this setup, but I didn't have a set of stock ones on hand. I'll either use the stock version with C6 Z51 or Z06 brakes, or possibly Wilwoods on the stock spindles.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0944-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0940-1.jpg

With a Z06 rotor for reference:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0941-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0942-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0945-1.jpg

A few more shots of the headers

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0947-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0948-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0952-1.jpg

The collectors, and of course my "borrowed" snot green T56. I really like the bolt-on collectors and the slip fit ends. No gaskets to blow out!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0951-1.jpg

A shot of the T56 poking though, through the massive hole in the firewall left when the HVAC unit was removed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0949-1.jpg

We'll form a piece of sheetmetal to go cleanly around the shifter. This is just rough cut at this point.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0950-1.jpg

[BulldawgMusclecars]

As you can see, a G-body has one of the ugliest firewalls to ever come on a GM vehicle. It slants way back, and leaves most of the stock HVAC on the outside of the firewall. We have plenty of engine clearance, so our planned firewall mods will be purely aesthetic. We'll build a new cowl area on the passenger side, since the old one was part of the HVAC unit, and bring the firewall out at the top so that it is flush with the bottom part. This will give us a smooth, flat firewall, and still leave plenty of room for engine access. The space there is essentially wasted, making the underdash area more crowded than it needs to be. By doing this, we'll have plenty of room for a Vintage Air setup, and the cross bar for our roll cage, the PCM, and anything else we want to tuck out of sight.

[carguykeith]

Looks great Joe, you'll love the jeep steering shaft MUCH better than the stock rag joint but I was surprised how much I had to collapse it to fit.

So to fit the headers, do you need to rock the motor out of its mounts from side to side to slide them up? Were they installed at the frame height shown in the pictures? How is the clearance on the drivers side at the rear lower control arm frame bracket?

Love your idea on the firewall, really wish I would have done more than just wirebrush and shoot mine with DP90... At a minimum I should have at least cut off the seam and weld/ground it smooth.

[SRD art]

Nice!


That steering wheel and trans makes me look forward to Christmas again. ;)

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The headers were put on with the engine and trans bolted in..On the drivers side we removed the collector, put in the two pieces, and slid the collector on. For the passenger side only half was pulled out. It was very easy overall. There is plenty of clearance at the rear of the lower a-arm. I'll get a pic of that tomorrow. The steering shaft does have to collapse a bit, but it still has enough travel for safety IMHO, and I'm sure the steering response will be better too. Glad you like the firewall idea!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Nice!


That steering wheel and trans makes me look forward to Christmas again. ;)

Be careful, you might get that steering wheel for Christmas! :enguard:

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The front Musclebar...nice and beefy!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0974-1.jpg

The splined arm and end link are really nice.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0973-1.jpg

Z06 rotor and caliper, for mockup. I'm debating between these and Wilwoods.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0971-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0970-1.jpg



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0969-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0968-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0966-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0963-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0962-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0961-1.jpg

[BulldawgMusclecars]

So to fit the headers, do you need to rock the motor out of its mounts from side to side to slide them up? Were they installed at the frame height shown in the pictures? How is the clearance on the drivers side at the rear lower control arm frame bracket?



I tried to get a pic of the lower control arm bracket, but it kept getting out of focus. Clearance on the bolt is a little tight, but nothing hits.

[ArtosDracon]

If you decide to dump those spindles I can think of a half dozen guys that would take them off your hands, one or two that are in GA even.

[carguykeith]

I tried to get a pic of the lower control arm bracket, but it kept getting out of focus. Clearance on the bolt is a little tight, but nothing hits.

Thanks for trying, I'll take your work for it that it fits. The three different headers I've been around on G-bodies that has been one of the tightest areas so I was concerned. It's nice they did the slip connection on the collector, that allows for the car to be much closer to the ground to rotate them in there.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

If you decide to dump those spindles I can think of a half dozen guys that would take them off your hands, one or two that are in GA even.

Thanks, but I'll hang onto them. I had planned to run stock '98-up S10 Blazer spindles on this car, considering that the suspension alone should get me low enough, but put the BellTechs on for now since I had them, and didn't have any stock Blazer spindles on hand. If they don't go on this car, they'll go on my son's '87 GN. I haven't started on that one yet, but I will be doing a build thread on it by summer. We have a little over two years to do a full rebuild on it (as a mild pro touring car), since I want him to be alble to drive it as soon as he turns 16.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks for trying, I'll take your work for it that it fits. The three different headers I've been around on G-bodies that has been one of the tightest areas so I was concerned. It's nice they did the slip connection on the collector, that allows for the car to be much closer to the ground to rotate them in there.

The only thing that was kind of close was the bolt, and it could be cut down if desired but it isn't necessary. I really like the slip fit collectors. That is the one thing that I get a lot of scepticism from street-oriented customers on, but it makes things so much easier for installation, as well as maintenance.

[gardnerme]

I saw this particular installation in person today (I thought I could sneak in while Joe wasn't looking but he caught me) and I must say that LS motor fits in there NICELY! It and the cradle look like there were made around each other yet there is plenty of clearance at the firewall for access to whatever. It is going to look just plain sick under the hood of this car when it all really comes together. Nice job, Joe!

[bonecrrusher]

Oh snap - LSx - Coilovers - Z06 brakes... you just got my attention!

[NBM-WU8]

Thanks, but I'll hang onto them. I had planned to run stock '98-up S10 Blazer spindles on this car, considering that the suspension alone should get me low enough, but put the BellTechs on for now since I had them, and didn't have any stock Blazer spindles on hand. If they don't go on this car, they'll go on my son's '87 GN. I haven't started on that one yet, but I will be doing a build thread on it by summer. We have a little over two years to do a full rebuild on it (as a mild pro touring car), since I want him to be alble to drive it as soon as he turns 16.

Should there be any problems running the drop spindles with the Coil Overs? I would assume that if it sat too low the car could be adjusted up enough to via coilover adjusments. We are looking at getting the Ridetech upper and lowers, swaybar and coilovers for our 88 SS LS3 project. We already have drop spindles for the car since we purchased the Baer Track4 set up with them already assembled. Any insight? Though to be sure I guess I really just need to call and speak with Ridetech.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

It might be too low; I haven't taken it off the stands to check yet. If not, I'll leave them in place...if so, they'll go on my sons's GN. There aren't any clearance issues now, so any problems will be ride- height related.

[SRD art]

Mark @ SC&C told me my car was too low to do what I want it to in autocross. I wanted it dropped 3-3.5" and he advised that 2" was about just right for a g-body's geometry. Then again, maybe he was talking specifically about the parts combination I'm using. I'm in mourning for the loss of the big drop so maybe a different car as a really dropped "fair grounds cruiser" as Mark called it, might be in my future as a daily driver.

I'm really curious how yours with more drop will handle compared to mine. Although it's still February I'm sure you're getting as antsy as I am for summer cone dodging events!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

This afternoon I stopped by one of my favorite old- school junk yards and picked up a RH quarter panel for GNXcess. This particular yard has been around since 1969, and unlike most yards they don't crush any of the good stuff. I spotted several other parts I'll be going back for, too...chassis braces, bucket seat brackets, and a few other goodies.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Mark @ SC&C told me my car was too low to do what I want it to in autocross. I wanted it dropped 3-3.5" and he advised that 2" was about just right for a g-body's geometry. Then again, maybe he was talking specifically about the parts combination I'm using. I'm in mourning for the loss of the big drop so maybe a different car as a really dropped "fair grounds cruiser" as Mark called it, might be in my future as a daily driver.

I'm really curious how yours with more drop will handle compared to mine. Although it's still February I'm sure you're getting as antsy as I am for summer cone dodging events!. I'd tend to agree with Mark on that one. I really didn't intend to put them on this car, but when I went junkyarding for spindles I couldn't find any that still had the hubs. I wound up buying these in a pinch, for a writing project I'm working on, and used them for mockup since I haven't been back to the yard where I typically buy them. Take it from me though, if you really want a slammed look springs alone aren't enough to do it right. For that, I'd probably use an air setup.

[SicMonte]

Mark @ SC&C told me my car was too low to do what I want it to in autocross. I wanted it dropped 3-3.5" and he advised that 2" was about just right for a g-body's geometry. Then again, maybe he was talking specifically about the parts combination I'm using. I'm in mourning for the loss of the big drop so maybe a different car as a really dropped "fair grounds cruiser" as Mark called it, might be in my future as a daily driver.

I'm really curious how yours with more drop will handle compared to mine. Although it's still February I'm sure you're getting as antsy as I am for summer cone dodging events!

Marcus told me the same thing but I went ahead and lowered mine alot more than "I should have" and it seems to handle fine! I know the geometry isnt perfect and im sure everything is wrong in the chassis builders eyes...but with stock control arm and shock mounts this thing handles very well!! I autoX and track day it all the time...no problems. Now I do have alot done to this car suspension wise and Im sure all that helps.

[keithq69]

Hey Joe,

I've been following this build and the other you have going on here.
Your work is great, I hope to be doing an LS3 swap in the future.
One thing I noticed about the spindle in the picture, are you going to cut the steering arm off and use a bolt on steering arm?
To me this looks like a rear steer steering arm. the tie rod pivot is inboard of the ball joint mount. For a front steer application the tie rod pivot should be outboard of the ball joint.
As far as I know, if you were to draw a line from the steering arm through the ball joint it should meet the center line of the rear axle in the middle of the car.
This will ensure proper ackerman geometry.
Anyone else have thoughts on this? Am I misinformed?

Thanks

Keith.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I'm no suspension engineer, and I know this spindle has some inherent flaws as far as geometry goes (I talked to Mark Savitske a bit about that last week), but this spindle and it's cast- in steering arms are dimensionally identical to a G- body spindle. You could accomplish the same thing with the original spindle, but the caliper bracket would have to be machined off and replaced with a bolt- on style, and you'd have to come up with a hub. A clean sheet of paper design may have some advantages, but in essence this spindle is no worse than the factory design.

[keithq69]

Thanks Joe.

I'm not an engineer either by any means.
I just noticed that it was positioned inboard of the ball joint. I have never worked with a G-body car before so I'm not familiar.
When you look at the early first gen spindle it uses a bolt on steering arm that positions the arm inboard of the ball joint because it's rear steer.
That same spindle on say a 70 Chevelle that is front steer has a steering arm that positions it outboard of the ball joint.
If GM did it the way yours is done I guess it works, I can't see them doing it otherwise.
I'd like to hear from some of the guys on here that do suspension design and see what they think.

Keith.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

A few shots of the rear RideTech suspension

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0975-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0976-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0977-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0979-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0980-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0978-1.jpg

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Some of you will probably notice...that isn't an 8.5 10 bolt! The '83 models didn't come with them, apparently, and my quick glance under the rear when I bought the car was mistaken! Definitely need to get my eyes checked! Anyway, I had already determined that, while the 8.5 is a great rear and is "enough" for 95% of the applications out there, it wouldn't have been for this one. This car will actually get fittted with either a fabricated 9" Ford, or a heavily beefed Ford 8.8 with 9" housing ends.

[SRD art]

Keith- I'm a Nova fan first, then the G-body. 68-74 Novas, 67-69 Camaros, and 68-72 A bodies all share the same spindles. Having the steering arms bolt on is kinda neat, especially for us goofy rear steer car owners that can swap on A body disc brakes by swapping the steering arm side to side. The G-body is a goofy car in itself with lots of room for improvement. The only spindle that corrects steering arm issues I've seen is the one SC&C carries, although there may be others I haven't come across. Unfortunately they're a bit spendy and out of a lot of folks' budgets. With the right other parts used with stock spindles a lot of the g-body poor geometry issues can be corrected, and I think more and more time is being spent developing parts for g-bodies. I for one am excited about that. I like the early cars but they're getting more and more rare and the g-bodies are like the fox body mustangs of the 80s and 90s, tons of potential and they're everywhere. In time I think even they will be all bought up and we'll be looking at improving something else instead. Unfortunately some of us will have to tear off the lift kits and 24" rims to find a decent one for sale, lol! At some time in the future I think hot rodders will be really feel the pain of mourning the point where car manufacturers dropped rear drive cars for the most part. Till then, when earlier Mustangs, Novas, Camaros, and Chevelles are beyond a lot of folks' project budgets, we can still buy a g-body.

Joe- I've read all over the internet that the GNs and even more rare GNXs are the only g-bodies that heve the 8.5 rear. Folks have even said the the 442s came with a 7.5. Personally I've never seen an 8.5 on anything but a GN. No wonder they're so expensive when you find one. Even so, they need to be built bullet proof to handle real power like you'll be producing anyway. Just my opinion, but I'd really be sad to see a 9" in your GNXcess. Anybody can do that. I want to see you put 1000 hp through an 8.8 and show the world you have a decent product on the shelf. I know you can do it, so... do it.

SicMonte- I love low cars. If I could have all worlds my wagon would have the frame on the ground at car shows. I suppose bags would be great for that. As much as I want to have my car 3+" lowered for the aggressive look my top priority is whoopin' some 1st gen F body trash on the autocross with a grandpa car. I'm glad you mentioned that you went lower, I've been real curious about it. I've seen your car in videos and I love everything about it. It'll be really neat to see how it all plays out- how Joe's, yours, mine, and others' g-body cars compare in handling with the different suspension set ups. Either way, it'll all probably be like drag racing. Only 10ths of seconds separating all of us. Dang! I thought I got away from chasing 10ths when I retired the drag Nova, lol! Oh well, gotta spend money somehow I guess, lol!

Sorry to hijack the thread a little Joe, I'm learning from your thread, I hope my thoughts have added to what's going on here too.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

As I suspected, it sits pretty low with the dropped spindles! I haven't made any ride height adjustments yet, basically just installed everything and put it on the ground. It definitely needs the stock height spindles, especially when considering the weight of the front sheetmetal, the turbos, intercooler, bumper, etc.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0981-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0982-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0986-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0983-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_0984-1.jpg

[GeoffP]

Wha'didja get a bonus buy on LS3's? Doesn't the one in your car make something like 3-4 that have been through your shop in the last year or so?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Joe- I've read all over the internet that the GNs and even more rare GNXs are the only g-bodies that heve the 8.5 rear. Folks have even said the the 442s came with a 7.5. Personally I've never seen an 8.5 on anything but a GN. No wonder they're so expensive when you find one. Even so, they need to be built bullet proof to handle real power like you'll be producing anyway. Just my opinion, but I'd really be sad to see a 9" in your GNXcess. Anybody can do that. I want to see you put 1000 hp through an 8.8 and show the world you have a decent product on the shelf. I know you can do it, so... do it.

Sorry to hijack the thread a little Joe, I'm learning from your thread, I hope my thoughts have added to what's going on here too.

The 8.5s also came in T-Types with the 3.8 turbo engine (can't verify for sure if the non-turbo T-Types had them or not), but from what I have read they started in 1984, not 1983...I had hoped that was either incorrect, or that one had been swapped in. Interestingly, the T-Types were usually lighter (faster) than the GNs, with aluminum rear brake drums and aluminum bumper supports vs the ferrous stuff found on other cars. The Monte SS never had an 8.5, but the 4-4-2s did. Did they all? I have no way to verify that, but every one I have ever inspected had the 8.5.

I'll definitely do an 8.8 for this car, but I'm a little concerned that it won't live long on the dragstrip with a manual transmission and the boost set on "kill". For 95% of the usage his car will see, the 8.8 will work. I usually go overkill on drivetrain parts, since I hate doing anything twice, but in this case I may go ahead with the 8.8 first and see what happens. If it will last in this car, it will last in anything. If not, the 9" will go in. One of my main purposes in building this car is as a rolling test bed, so expect there to be changes made as we explore other options with these cars.

No apology necessary, Ben!

[SRD art]

I stand corrected on the 8.5s, just goes to show once again you can't believe everything on cyber space. ;)

I agree, and sounds like you've got a great back up plan with the 9.

Aren't there 8 sec Mustangs with 8.8s though? If so, yeah it'll be an 8.8 housing and nothing internal is still Ford products, but it's still an "8.8". How fast do you anticipate the car going? I'm sure the weight of the car will be more than a drag prepped Mustang, but even at mid-high 9s or 10's I'd think the 8.8 would hold up fine. I've personally seen GN's running mid-high 10s on an 8.5, and I hear (here we go again with knowing what is good info and what is smoke dreams) the 8.8 is even stronger than a 12 bolt. I guess I'm really just curious about how much abuse an 8.8 can really handle.

I also forgot this won't be an automatic car. I guess that does add a little shock to the system right? Just run some bias slicks at about 8lbs of pressure, you'll be fine. Of course you'll have to change your shorts after a trip down the track too, lol!

PS If my Nova doesn't sell here I have an almost brand new set of 275-50-15 BFG drag radials that we can abuse a little if they'll clear your brakes.

[SRD art]

How much clearance do you have at the side frame rails? Before I took it all apart this time around I had about 4.5" right behind the front tires and about 6" right in front of the rear tires. Maybe a little low but it was fine for driving, even in the "land of garbage roads" Utah. I don't think I ever measured the front cross member height but I could plow snow with it, lol!

The photo below is drive height with 16" wheels, it's not photoshopped or anything.

[Protournova]

Not to turn this thread into a 8.8 versus 9 but from what I understand the 8.8 has less parasitic lose then the 9... so if you could make a 8.8 work you would be better off.. yes/no??

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Wha'didja get a bonus buy on LS3's? Doesn't the one in your car make something like 3-4 that have been through your shop in the last year or so?. Lol, no, this is only number 2 for LS3 crates;,this is the 525hp version bought for Lonestar. Space is at a premium right now, and when Jeremy pulled the engine fro Lonestar to finish the firewall, we stuck it in GNXcess to do it's mockup. I don't have my engine yet, and it will be an iron block 6.0. An aluminum block would never take the power levels I'll be capable of with the twins.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I stand corrected on the 8.5s, just goes to show once again you can't believe everything on cyber space. ;)

I agree, and sounds like you've got a great back up plan with the 9.

Aren't there 8 sec Mustangs with 8.8s though? If so, yeah it'll be an 8.8 housing and nothing internal is still Ford products, but it's still an "8.8". How fast do you anticipate the car going? I'm sure the weight of the car will be more than a drag prepped Mustang, but even at mid-high 9s or 10's I'd think the 8.8 would hold up fine. I've personally seen GN's running mid-high 10s on an 8.5, and I hear (here we go again with knowing what is good info and what is smoke dreams) the 8.8 is even stronger than a 12 bolt. I guess I'm really just curious about how much abuse an 8.8 can really handle.

I also forgot this won't be an automatic car. I guess that does add a little shock to the system right? Just run some bias slicks at about 8lbs of pressure, you'll be fine. Of course you'll have to change your shorts after a trip down the track too, lol!

PS If my Nova doesn't sell here I have an almost brand new set of 275-50-15 BFG drag radials that we can abuse a little if they'll clear your brakes.. Keep in mind that I have many goals for this project beyond autocross and road courses; with the planned 408, it should be capable of at least high 10s in the 1/4 with no boost. The turbos I'm running will be capable of flowing enough air to support 2,000 hp... not that I will go anywhere near that level. 1200 to 1400 on the strip or a land speed event will be a gracious plenty! I'll grow into that kind of power, though, so the 8.8 should be ok til that point. There are going to be plenty of compromises, but I'm perfectly willing to change the setup for each purpose. I don't have the time or money to build several high end cars that are purpose built to accommodate all my interests, so I'm building one. The turbos should come on softly enough to preserve the 8.8; the T56 will probably be an issue first! I expect the weight to be 3700ish, with the extra weight of the cage, turbo plumbing, and the intercooler and alcohol tanks, dry sump, etc. I'll pull as much dead weight out as I can, though.

[SRD art]

I've heard that too about the loss. Maybe once you get the turbo motor together we can dyno your car Joe, then pull the motor and put it in my car with the 9". Lol!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Not to turn this thread into a 8.8 versus 9 but from what I understand the 8.8 has less parasitic lose then the 9... so if you could make a 8.8 work you would be better off.. yes/no??. Yes, that is true. Like a 12 bolt, the pinion location consumes less power than a 9". That also is the reason for it being slightly weaker. I have always been on the 9" side of that argument, but I have had no issues with the 8.8, even in the Vortech blown 5.0 coupe I was driving 11 years ago. It made 517rwhp, through a 28 spline 8.8 with stock axles and traction lock.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I've heard that too about the loss. Maybe once you get the turbo motor together we can dyno your car Joe, then pull the motor and put it in my car with the 9". Lol! it's funny, though, I have seen street driven 4th gen F- bodies go from 7.5s (technically 7 5/8, but still just a sucky Vega rear) dyno virtually the same after a 9" swap. Its probably not as big an issue as most make of it. I do know that it's a lot tougher to push a 9" equipped car!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

How much clearance do you have at the side frame rails? Before I took it all apart this time around I had about 4.5" right behind the front tires and about 6" right in front of the rear tires. Maybe a little low but it was fine for driving, even in the "land of garbage roads" Utah. I don't think I ever measured the front cross member height but I could plow snow with it, lol!

The photo below is drive height with 16" wheels, it's not photoshopped or anything. I'll measure tomorrow. I'm more concerned with proper geometry than ground clearance, though you need to watch that too if you're driving on Power Tour. Those MI and OH roads are awful!

[SicMonte]

im building a 8.5 rear for my car...but the stock 7.5 is holding up like a trooper for now!!

Any build pics of the front coil overs?

[SicMonte]

Keith- I'm a Nova fan first, then the G-body. 68-74 Novas, 67-69 Camaros, and 68-72 A bodies all share the same spindles. Having the steering arms bolt on is kinda neat, especially for us goofy rear steer car owners that can swap on A body disc brakes by swapping the steering arm side to side. The G-body is a goofy car in itself with lots of room for improvement. The only spindle that corrects steering arm issues I've seen is the one SC&C carries, although there may be others I haven't come across. Unfortunately they're a bit spendy and out of a lot of folks' budgets. With the right other parts used with stock spindles a lot of the g-body poor geometry issues can be corrected, and I think more and more time is being spent developing parts for g-bodies. I for one am excited about that. I like the early cars but they're getting more and more rare and the g-bodies are like the fox body mustangs of the 80s and 90s, tons of potential and they're everywhere. In time I think even they will be all bought up and we'll be looking at improving something else instead. Unfortunately some of us will have to tear off the lift kits and 24" rims to find a decent one for sale, lol! At some time in the future I think hot rodders will be really feel the pain of mourning the point where car manufacturers dropped rear drive cars for the most part. Till then, when earlier Mustangs, Novas, Camaros, and Chevelles are beyond a lot of folks' project budgets, we can still buy a g-body.

Joe- I've read all over the internet that the GNs and even more rare GNXs are the only g-bodies that heve the 8.5 rear. Folks have even said the the 442s came with a 7.5. Personally I've never seen an 8.5 on anything but a GN. No wonder they're so expensive when you find one. Even so, they need to be built bullet proof to handle real power like you'll be producing anyway. Just my opinion, but I'd really be sad to see a 9" in your GNXcess. Anybody can do that. I want to see you put 1000 hp through an 8.8 and show the world you have a decent product on the shelf. I know you can do it, so... do it.

SicMonte- I love low cars. If I could have all worlds my wagon would have the frame on the ground at car shows. I suppose bags would be great for that. As much as I want to have my car 3+" lowered for the aggressive look my top priority is whoopin' some 1st gen F body trash on the autocross with a grandpa car. I'm glad you mentioned that you went lower, I've been real curious about it. I've seen your car in videos and I love everything about it. It'll be really neat to see how it all plays out- how Joe's, yours, mine, and others' g-body cars compare in handling with the different suspension set ups. Either way, it'll all probably be like drag racing. Only 10ths of seconds separating all of us. Dang! I thought I got away from chasing 10ths when I retired the drag Nova, lol! Oh well, gotta spend money somehow I guess, lol!

Sorry to hijack the thread a little Joe, I'm learning from your thread, I hope my thoughts have added to what's going on here too.

If we all ever get to the same event.......that would be rediculous!

I have rode in/driven a host of different g-bodies all with different suspensions. I can honestly compare all the cars as no two felt the same. One had the full DSE set up, another had DSE and SC&C stuff, while mine has Ridetech and SC&C stuff. All the cars feel different due to the set ups and the engines. They all felt good but there seemed to be definate pros and cons in each car. Non of them felt like a 1st gen camaro with all the bells and whistles for sure...but damned close!! Im excited for this season!!

[SRD art]

I'll measure tomorrow. I'm more concerned with proper geometry than ground clearance, though you need to watch that too if you're driving on Power Tour. Those MI and OH roads are awful!

I'm not going as low this time, more like 6-6.5" all around. Focusing more on correcting the geometry than trying to lower the cg. I think the car should ride pretty well and handle great when it's done.

Again, I'll bet the quality of most parts these days are probably all within 10ths of each other if they're set up properly.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

im building a 8.5 rear for my car...but the stock 7.5 is holding up like a trooper for now!!

Any build pics of the front coil overs?

The 7.5s do ok with an automatic car, but I had nothing but trouble with them in 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies that I don't bother with them anymore.
I typically like a lot of gear in my cars, and I learned quickly to invest the $ into a better rear,rather than buying gears, bearings, etc. to set up a rear that wouldn't last. It would probably be fine for most PT cars, though.
I got a few in progress pics on the front coil overs, but you covered everything so well I didn't see the need to post them.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

If we all ever get to the same event.......that would be rediculous!

I have rode in/driven a host of different g-bodies all with different suspensions. I can honestly compare all the cars as no two felt the same. One had the full DSE set up, another had DSE and SC&C stuff, while mine has Ridetech and SC&C stuff. All the cars feel different due to the set ups and the engines. They all felt good but there seemed to be definate pros and cons in each car. Non of them felt like a 1st gen camaro with all the bells and whistles for sure...but damned close!! Im excited for this season!!

I think the reason they didn't feel as good has a lot to do with chassis stiffness. Granted, a stock 1st gen F-body is about as stiff as a wet noodle, but add in subframe connectors, solid bushings, etc. and they are on par with anything. On the G and A bodies, the chassis is so weak that it surprises me that ANY boltons can have a significant effect. The factory used lots of braces to supplement (oddly, Grand Prixs seem to have the most chasssis bracing), and they can be added on and help significantly, but they are basically a band aid. For GNXcess, I'll be running a full 12 point cage, boxing the frame, and adding additional bracing/gusseting wherever possible. I also plan to run solid body mounts.

[SRD art]

I looked for solid mounts with no luck, did you find some???

[BulldawgMusclecars]

No, but I plan to have some produced.

[SicMonte]

I think the reason they didn't feel as good has a lot to do with chassis stiffness. Granted, a stock 1st gen F-body is about as stiff as a wet noodle, but add in subframe connectors, solid bushings, etc. and they are on par with anything. On the G and A bodies, the chassis is so weak that it surprises me that ANY boltons can have a significant effect. The factory used lots of braces to supplement (oddly, Grand Prixs seem to have the most chasssis bracing), and they can be added on and help significantly, but they are basically a band aid. For GNXcess, I'll be running a full 12 point cage, boxing the frame, and adding additional bracing/gusseting wherever possible. I also plan to run solid body mounts.

I have an 8 point cage and that did wonders!!!!

[SRD art]

No, but I plan to have some produced.

Nice!

Sic Monte- did you weld it to the floor or to the chassis?

How are you doing it Joe?

I just went to the floor with 4x4" plates and then boxed the frame. Hoping that will make it stiff enough.

[SicMonte]

Nice!

Sic Monte- did you weld it to the floor or to the chassis?

How are you doing it Joe?

I just went to the floor with 4x4" plates and then boxed the frame. Hoping that will make it stiff enough.

Mine is welded to the chassis...

[carguykeith]

I looked at running solid body mounts but decided on Energy Suspension poly ones instead. Between those and the 6 pt cage the chassis stiffened up A LOT more than I expected. I bet going to a full 12 pt cage and solid bushings turns the g-body frame into a solid piece of steel!

Oh and if you don't feel like making them, you can buy solid G-body bushings here: http://www.tntraceshop.com/1978-1988_G-body_190100.html

They (TNT) also have some nice weld-in rear control arm braces you can add, I'm running their lower ones and was happy with the fit and finish. Still added a set of the braces that tie the upper and lower control arms together, but think the lowers were cheap insurance.

[SRD art]

Thanks for the links!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Yes, thanks Keith! I haven't run numbers on the solid mounts yet, but if its cost effective I'll produce my own. To be legal in just about any sanctioning body, the roll cage has to be welded to the frame on a full framed car, and mine will be no exception. That makes things a little more difficult when you plan to powdercoat the frame, but thats just another problem to solve.

[CruizinKev]

Joe you already know I love this project!!! good work so far man!! :twothumbs :twothumbs :twothumbs

[TomT]

Hey Joe - Looks like you build is moving along! The splined front sway bar is very cool. Any idea what tire size you're going to run on the front?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Not yet, Tom. I'm thinking about building my own fenderwells, since the car will have forward bars on the roll cage anyway, and that may free up a little room. At that point, I may do a little notching if its beneficial.

[SparkyRnD]

I found a top-secret photo of fender fitment for project GNXcess. Super secret items have been blacked out, and the likeness of certain employees has been hidden to protect the innocent, as well as the not-so-innocent:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/Fender-1.jpg


It looks like it might be the beginning of SabrExcess!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

You must have too much time on your hands, Sparky!

[SparkyRnD]

I wish. That was from Feb. 3, and you stepped outside for a second and didn't see me take it. Forgot to post it until a little while ago

[BulldawgMusclecars]

GNXcess has been ignored the last couple of weeks, with all the customer projects in the shop right now, but we'll be getting back on it next week. We're planning to pull the body off of the frame to do the notching, and once thats finished up start replacing the quarter. ben and I have been talking pretty extensively about our ideas for the exterior, and I think you guys will like it. Hopefully he'll have a rendering for us in the very near future!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Since this project is a "shop" car, and not a customer vehicle, it has to get pushed aside from time to time to keep our paying customers happy, and the bills paid. We should be back on it soon, but for the time being here is the preliminary rendering, done by Ben at Street Rod Designs (SRDArt). There are some details that haven't been addressed yet, like the door handles and mirrors, but you get the idea.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/GNXSproof2-1.jpg

The fender flares pictured are similar to GNX flares, but larger, and will be steel and molded into the fenders. The bumperettes will be removed, with the front license plate area removed and replaced with an opening that will be the same width as the grille opening. The hood looks like the stock GN style hood, but is actually going to be a cutom piece that is longer, taller, and wider, to accomodate the Holley intake and give a more sinister look. The door handles will either be stock, or possibly a stock-sized handle that is flush mounted. Mirrors will also likely be stock. Wheels will be Rushforth Rated X's with titanium centers and a brushed lip, probably in 19x10 and 19x12, with Z06 front and rear brakes. Tires will be Nitto NT355s. The front size hasn't yet been determined, but the rears will be 345s (thanks to the flares and a healthy notch). Color will be a graphite pearl over black.

[atam]

Love the look of the red brakes against the black.

[gardnerme]

Joe,

That rendering looks great (nice work, Ben!)! I see that the front clip looks like it is from a 84-87 car. Are you going to use one of those (looks much better) or stick with the '83 that came on it?

Also, when are you and I riding to wherever and ordering a couple of color samples? :naughty:

[PonchoJohn]

Joe,
What is the OE application for the Jeep collapsing column coupler shaft?
Thanks!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Joe,

That rendering looks great (nice work, Ben!)! I see that the front clip looks like it is from a 84-87 car. Are you going to use one of those (looks much better) or stick with the '83 that came on it?

Also, when are you and I riding to wherever and ordering a couple of color samples? :naughty:

Yes, we're using the '84-'87 stuff. The original front isn't bad, but it just doesn't fit the theme for this car. I'm also using the later dash; I found a really nice gray one at Pull-A-Part recently, but its going to be dyed black.

If you want to run by there sometime after work we can, or I could just go pick up both next time I'm over that way.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Joe,
What is the OE application for the Jeep collapsing column coupler shaft?
Thanks!

I'm pretty sure this one came out of a late '90s Cherokee (square body), but just about any of them will work. Try to get one with the stamped splined piece for the steering box, since they are much easier to get on. The cast ones like the one pictured will work, but can be difficult to spread enough to get over the splines.

[PonchoJohn]

Cool!
Thanks!
John

[SRD art]

My favorite part of this design was the front opening for the intercooler. I think overall it'll be a mean looking build.

Joe-The art looked great on my computer. I've looked at it on 2 computers here at school and it looks awful dark. How's it look on your end?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Its funny...it looked dark on my laptop ( I attributed it to my worsening eyesite), but when I uploaded it to Photobucket, and on here, it didn't look as dark. I didn't even see the writing on the rockers until I uploaded it.

[SRD art]

Just got home- it looks great on my wife's computer too. Must just be monitor setting differences.

[SS PUNISHER]

Was dark for me, had to blow it up and turn my phone the right way to see any detail.
Looks furkin killer!

[csouth]

Nice rendering. Glad to finally see the finished concept for this build. Things are moving right along at Bulldawg!

[Stg1Regal]

BulldawgMusclecars

Digging the build project....!!!

Along time ago, at the GS Nationals, I seen a white T-Type with this wild front end/header panel done for the innercooler, but the radiator was in the lower opening and the innercooler was where the radiator was.
The company since has gone out of business, but would love to have this front on my Regal.
Maybe this design can work for ya?

57475
57476

[CRCRFT78]

Just read through this whole thread. I can't wait to see this completed.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

BulldawgMusclecars

Digging the build project....!!!

Along time ago, at the GS Nationals, I seen a white T-Type with this wild front end/header panel done for the innercooler, but the radiator was in the lower opening and the innercooler was where the radiator was.
The company since has gone out of business, but would love to have this front on my Regal.
Maybe this design can work for ya?

57475
57476

That's similar to what we're doing, but instead of fiberglass (I'm presuming), we'll do it in steel, and keep it more stock appearing. Since we're going with an air-to-water intercooler, the heat exchanger in it won't take up nearly as much real estate as an air-to-air unit big enough for our application. I haven't gotten to the stage of figuring out the packaging for all the turbo hardware, though.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Just read through this whole thread. I can't wait to see this completed.

Thanks! Me either! I have only been dreaming about this car since the mid '80s!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Here is the final version:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/GNXSproof3-1.jpg

I also just made arrangements for the roll cage. Its going to be a 14 point Chris Alston's Chassisworks unit, in mild steel.

http://www.cachassisworks.com/p-508-14-point-roll-cage.aspx

[csouth]

Love the change to the wheels. That is going to be NASTY! Will you have it ready for Power Tour?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Love the change to the wheels. That is going to be NASTY! Will you have it ready for Power Tour?

Unfortunately not...Sabre is taking precedence, since Sparky's already committed to several events this summer. Between Lonestar, Haulin Bananas, and a few others we'll have our hands full well into the summer on customer cars. My main goal for the car is to have it done in time for SEMA, and hit all the events next year. I haven't even started on the engine (the one in the pics is just for mockup) yet.

We should at the very least have the cage and chassis work done over the next few weeks, and we'll get started on the body.

[csouth]

I can dig that, since the customers cars pay the bills. I'm was hoping to see one of your projects at Power Tour...

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Hopefully Sparky will join in on the Tour after the Atlanta event...that is likely what I'm going to do.

[carguykeith]

14point cage is A LOT of cage, are you really planning on a suspension package that will get you into the 8's? I'm sure you will have the power but getting it to hook up and still go around a corner is a lot to ask when you get that fast. It will stiffen the crap out of the chassis which is always nice, just a big step away from easy to get in and out of.

Heck even with my little 6 point cage it takes an extra minute to get going if I leave the door bars in... I figure even adjusting shocks and taking the front sway bar off and maxing out the rear adjustable bar I'm not going to break into the 9's even if I add a 100 shot of nitrous.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

14point cage is A LOT of cage, are you really planning on a suspension package that will get you into the 8's? I'm sure you will have the power but getting it to hook up and still go around a corner is a lot to ask when you get that fast. It will stiffen the crap out of the chassis which is always nice, just a big step away from easy to get in and out of.

Heck even with my little 6 point cage it takes an extra minute to get going if I leave the door bars in... I figure even adjusting shocks and taking the front sway bar off and maxing out the rear adjustable bar I'm not going to break into the 9's even if I add a 100 shot of nitrous.

If I ever do any serious drag racing with this car, I'm sure changes to the suspension will be in order, but I doubt I'll ever do much more than a few fun runs with it. I used to really love drag racing, but it just doesn't interest me that much anymore.

Why a 14 point cage, then?

Its definitely overkill for a typical Pro-Touring car.

For one, it adds much needed stiffness to the front of the chassis, which is where these cars are lacking the most. Also, the front bars will give a convenient mounting point for the turbos, plumbing and anything else that may need to be attached securely. The stock plastic inner fenders don't give many options for that, so we'll fabricate our own, removable panels. Finally, I have always been fascinated by land speed racing, and I'm not going to attempt to go 200mph+ in a brick without a full roll cage.

[carguykeith]

I'm not going to attempt to go 200mph+ in a brick without a full roll cage.

I wouldn't either, 200mph is a damn good reason for the full cage for sure!! I wonder if it's worth talking to the land speed guys before you build it in case they like a different configuration due to the change in potential crashes?

[Verz]

Love the rendering, car is going to look killer. Def keeping an eye on this thread

[93Polo]

Thanks! It feels a little strange working on something of my own again!

I got a little sidetracked on the Buick yesterday, and decided to test fit the new steering shaft, then remove the shaft and box to clean up the frame rails a bit before mocking up the new suspension. I hope to get back to the suspension later today.

We have a LOT on the agenda for the next 6 weeks on this car...frame notching, mini-tubbing, frame reinforcements/boxing, roll cage, a quarter panel replacement, some floorpan work, and a whole new firewall. We'll also have an LS1/T56 combo thrown in for mockup, and start laying out the headers and turbo plumbing. Unfortunately, I don't think the ones BRP sent are going to work...with the mods they need, I'll probably be better off starting from scratch. I wanted stainless anyway, since I only plan to build this car once.

Are you making your own turbo headers or flipping manifolds from something like a truck?

A couple of guys on Chevelles.com were using OEM manifolds which had me thinking about their setups and looking at manifolds when I ran across these running an image search:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tru-Ram-LS1-Exhaust-Manifolds-Polished,53711.html

Flipped I think the placement would work well but I couldn't find anyone who has purchased the manifolds. A 90 elbow off the collector should be a good place for the waste gate.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I wouldn't either, 200mph is a damn good reason for the full cage for sure!! I wonder if it's worth talking to the land speed guys before you build it in case they like a different configuration due to the change in potential crashes?

Most definitely. There are a few changes that have to be made, but they're small things...like thicker floor plates, for one. Lots of those guys start with pre-bent cage kits like the one we're using to save money. That is always a plus, but the main reason here for using one is that the installation is going to be published, and the editor wants a kit to be used, rather than a full custom-bent cage. We'll make small modifications here and there, as needed, to esnure our goals for the project are met.

SCTA/ECTA rules will take precedence, but I should be able to conform to SCCA and NHRA rules also. Since I have access to an extremely talented chassis guy, Phil Patch (you may have seen him in the Hot Rod article in I think May of 2010, about building your own cage), I'll let him handle all that. He mostly deals with NHRA stuff, but from what I have seen it shouldn't be tough to make them all happy.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Are you making your own turbo headers or flipping manifolds from something like a truck?

A couple of guys on Chevelles.com were using OEM manifolds which had me thinking about their setups and looking at manifolds when I ran across these running an image search:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Tru-Ram-LS1-Exhaust-Manifolds-Polished,53711.html

Flipped I think the placement would work well but I couldn't find anyone who has purchased the manifolds. A 90 elbow off the collector should be a good place for the waste gate.

I have a couple sets of 6.0 truck manifolds lying around, and I wouldn't hesitate to use them in most cases. Phil from BRP sent over a set of midlegth headers that he thought would be a good start for a set of turbo headers, but considering the cost and what needs to be done to make them work, we're going to start from scratch and build a set. That way there won't be any compromises for fit, performance, or appearance.

Speedway's site was down for maintenance, so I'll have to check them out later.

[sokoloka]

Love the rendering - excited to watch this progress!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks! Curt is unbolting the body from the chassis as I type this, so we can notch the rear rails and do some other frame mods before the roll cage gets here.

[SRD art]

Since I have access to an extremely talented chassis guy, Phil Patch (you may have seen him in the Hot Rod article in I think May of 2010, about building your own cage), I'll let him handle all that. He mostly deals with NHRA stuff, but from what I have seen it shouldn't be tough to make them all happy.

Man, would I like to see him in action, with a camera and note pad in hand! When have you got the cage scheduled for?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Later this month, but I'm going to video as much of it as possible. Don't worry, you'll get to meet Patch...he does some other stuff for us from time to time. He'll be back to assist with the turbo plumbing, since that is one of his specialties.

[SRD art]

Cooool...

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I just got word that the cage is shipping tomorrow, so hopefully it will be here by the end of next week. GNXcess's body is seperated from the chassis, and tomorrow we'll start stripping it back down in preparation for the rear frame notch, and some additional bracing and boxing. Combined with the cage, some of it may seem like overkill, but this engine...even being based on a production style iron block...should be capable of well over 1200hp at full boost, and a future LSX or similar block upgrade could push it further than that. That said, I'm only doing the chassis fab once.

[pmgm]

Looks like one hell of a build.. Should turn out real nice when its done... Please keep the updates coming..

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Here are a few recent pics...the body is now off the frame, and we're in the process of disassembly. The frame will get a quick blasting, then all the boxing, reinforcing, and notching will be done. We'll give it a coat of black epoxy primer before permanently re-mounting the body (once the cage goes in, it won't be coming back apart). Once everything is done with the roll cage, we'll paint the frame and underbody.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1149-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1150-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1151-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1155-1.jpg

A couple of the body mount locations had some rust...this will be fixed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1154-1.jpg

A view with the mockup engine and trans in place.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1152-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1153-1.jpg

Underneath. Its not horrible, but there is some surface rust, and some holes in the passenger rear floor and the left rear portion of the outer wheel well. Once all the metal work is taken care of (including minitubs), we'll use spray-on bedliner material and then paint it all to match the chassis. Normally I'd do this seperately, but the roll cage causes some compromises.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1156-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1157-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1158-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1159-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1160-1.jpg

[csouth]

Nice progress over there Joe. I'm sure the space next to your shop has got be FULL right now...lol Bulldawg has to be the hottest spot in Acworth right now :twothumbs

[SRD art]

Looking good in the photos Joe. I can't tell on yours but hopefully you've got the rear frame rails connected somehow. On mine I left the trailer hitch attached when I notched it and when it went to the blaster. When I pulled it off to paint the frame, the rails spread apart like a spring, Sproing! I put it back together today and had to use a ratchet tie down to pull them together to get the holes close and then some work to line them up for bolts. I think not only is the frame weak but notching it creates a lot of tension in the rails. Best scenario is weld a cross bar in there at the end of the rails, or maybe second best is at least leave the bumper support bolted on...

[gardnerme]

Joe - I really like the trailer hitch idea! You should totally do that! Thanks, Ben! :-)

[gardnerme]

Bulldawg has to be the hottest spot in Acworth right now :twothumbs

No offense, Joe, but being the hottest spot in Acworth really isn't that difficult. :-)

[CruizinKev]

mockup engine and trans in place.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1153-1.jpg
looks great so far Joe!!! :twothumbs :cheers:

if you remember I still got the problem with my BRP t56 crossmember. looks so much different than yours. looks like mine is way too long - maybe BRP just sent me the wrong piece?!?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/IMAG0264-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMAG0261-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMAG0262-1.jpg

what do you think Joe??

[SRD art]

Joe - I really like the trailer hitch idea! You should totally do that! Thanks, Ben! :-)

Are you poking fun? ;) Not many 1400 hp cars with trailer hitches, unless you're after the fastest streetcar in America title I suppose...

I decided to use the trailer hitch to kill several birds with one stone. 1. allows for towing, not a lot of weight bearing but can tow a support trailer or flat tow a race car or tow dolly your broken down commuter, 2. it's a great place to put a tow hook for certain racing classes, 3. it's huge so it will help with rigid support and a bit of impact safety back there, 4. it's added weight behind the rear tires which will help a bit with weight bias and for traction purposes in drag racing. 5. I bought it for $25 from the wrecking yard. Mine was on a g-body El Camino, but any junkyard receiver hitch could be modified to work.

[GeoffP]

That transmission looks familiar! :)

[BulldawgMusclecars]

looks great so far Joe!!! :twothumbs :cheers:

if you remember I still got the problem with my BRP t56 crossmember. looks so much different than yours. looks like mine is way too long - maybe BRP just sent me the wrong piece?!?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/IMAG0264-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMAG0261-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMAG0262-1.jpg

what do you think Joe??

I thought BRP had gotten that straightened out for you? I'll get with Jeff on it.

I think there is an issue with my crossmember, too...it looks like it needs the earlier type, since my mounting holes don't line up. There doesn't seem to be much consistency among these cars between different years and models.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Joe - I really like the trailer hitch idea! You should totally do that! Thanks, Ben! :-)

My idea of using the receiver to accept a parachute mount (required for Bonneville)? I think it will be pretty cool. Plus, it will come in handy if I decide to take the car to Moreland for a little nighttime racing! Its hard to get a race when your car has a parachute mount!

[gardnerme]

Are you poking fun? ;)

Who, me?! Never!

[CruizinKev]

I thought BRP had gotten that straightened out for you? I'll get with Jeff on it.

I think there is an issue with my crossmember, too...it looks like it needs the earlier type, since my mounting holes don't line up. There doesn't seem to be much consistency among these cars between different years and models.
Thanks Joe! please keep me updated! it looks like I need the crossmember like yours! I bought my kit from BRP's ebay-shop

[BulldawgMusclecars]

We got a package in from UPS Freight yesterday. Thanks, Chris Alston Chassisworks! They got my 14 point cage to me quick, considering they are on the other end of the country.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1171-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/IMG_1172-1.jpg

[SRD art]

Coooool! I figured some of the bars would be pre-bent besides the hoop. Do you have access to a bender?

Fun fun! I think bending the main hoop was the easiest part for me. Getting all the other bends calculated and everything else to line up for welding was the real challenge. Measure twice, bend and cut once, throw it away because you miscalculated anyway, start process over... lol! Overall it was a great learning experience and after all the tubing work I did on Pumkinator I can look back and feel like I came out on top.

Anyways, congrats on getting the parts for the next step!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks Ben! I will be adding a tubing bender to the shop once we move, but for this project I will be using a borrowed one. I am looking forward to having a dedicated area in the next shop, just for metal fab. Brakes, lathes, etc. all take up a lot of room. Space is at a premium for the time being, though.

[CruizinKev]

I thought BRP had gotten that straightened out for you? I'll get with Jeff on it.

I think there is an issue with my crossmember, too...it looks like it needs the earlier type, since my mounting holes don't line up. There doesn't seem to be much consistency among these cars between different years and models.
Thanks Joe! please keep me updated! it looks like I need the crossmember like yours! I bought my kit from BRP's ebay-shop
Joe I sent few emails to BRP but still no answer yet! IDK what to think about them/their customer service/support :help: :dunno: :attn:

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Kev,

I checked with them, and was told that some frames (usually Regals and Cutlass) don't always have a long enough tab to meet up with the end of the crossmember. They explained that a piece would need to be welded on to extend the frame in that area; they don't have a different crossmember. I didn't really like the answer, but that is what they said. Something else to put on the to-do list...

[CruizinKev]

Kev,

I checked with them, and was told that some frames (usually Regals and Cutlass) don't always have a long enough tab to meet up with the end of the crossmember. They explained that a piece would need to be welded on to extend the frame in that area; they don't have a different crossmember. I didn't really like the answer, but that is what they said. Something else to put on the to-do list... very sad!!
oh I know all about that frame extension. I know few g-body frame didn't have them and a few need to be welded in. but that is NOT my problem! if I weld in that frame extension the BRP crossmember still won't fit! overall lenght just too long! just look on here:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/brpt56problem1-1.jpg

I think my crossmember really is a different crossmember piece than yours. I'll measure the overall lenght today and keep you posted!

[jtm311]

Hey Kevin looks like the make-up the difference on the curved part, the left side is shorter than the right :) Maybe get two pieces of angle iron and cut /weld your own ends. I'm sure that sucks on a part you purchased which should fit!


Joe great build thread.
John

[CruizinKev]

oh yeah really sucks! I measured today the length/width of the crossmember - its exact 50" wide/long

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Kev, I emailed your pics to Jeff at BRP. You should be hearing from him soon.

[CruizinKev]

thx Joe! :) i really hope they will get in contact with me because still haven't heard from them yet. in other words their communication is really bad. no reply to my emails. seems like they just like to sell stuff but no help with problems? But I really hope its just a mistake. Thing is I don't want to cut that crossmember. I paid money for all that stuff.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

I don't blame you, sort of defeats the purpose.

[SRD art]

Hey! Will you two guys quit yappin' about parts that don't fit and let's see some progress updates on both of these cars! ;) Lol!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Its been a while since I made an update, and that is mainly due to the shop being too busy lately to work on it. Ben (SRD Art) is coming to work for us later in the month, and we can't wait for him to get here! I'm still trying to hire another full time guy for general mechanical/electrical/light fab, and I'll consider people willing to relocate.

Right now, the frame has been cleaned up and is ready for the modifications to start. First, we're going to notch the rear frame rails and box the frame, add some reinforcements, and put it back in with steel body bushings. Next, we'll replace the rusted right rear floor pan and RH quarter panel, and do the minitubs. After that, we'll build a new firewall and weld in the roll cage.

I had originally planned to powder coat the frame, but had dropped the idea since the scope of the project has grown (doesn't it always?) to include the roll cage, and I didn't like the idea of having to grind off powdercoat to properly weld in the cage. I have seen some shops (Rad Rides, for one) powdercoat their interiors and floorpans, and always thought that would be pretty cool, but "ass"umed that the local powdercoaters couldn't do something like that. Well, I was wrong, and yesterday when I picked up Sparky's frame for Sabre (which looks incredible, BTW!) from the coaters I noticed that they had done some Porsche road racers before...interior, cage, body, and all! In my case, I'm going to have them do the interior (including inside the trunk), cage, frame, firewall and the complete underside in a semi-gloss powdercoat.

The shop that does the coating for us is called Pro Cryo...you can check them out here:

http://www.procryo.com/

They offer media blasting, powder coating, ceramic cotings, cryogenic treatments, and their own "Cryo-Rem" component finishing process.

[SRD art]

Sounds great! I didn't realize they could powder it all but it does make sense. That will be nice when it's done, and super durable.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

very sad!!
oh I know all about that frame extension. I know few g-body frame didn't have them and a few need to be welded in. but that is NOT my problem! if I weld in that frame extension the BRP crossmember still won't fit! overall lenght just too long! just look on here:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/brpt56problem1-1.jpg

I think my crossmember really is a different crossmember piece than yours. I'll measure the overall lenght today and keep you posted!

My vision isn't what it used to be, but Jeff at BRP took a look a your picture and said you have the crossmember backwards; the long side goes to the drivers side, and the crossmember goes in the frame rails, not on top of it. Didn't you already box the frame?

[CruizinKev]

My vision isn't what it used to be, but Jeff at BRP took a look a your picture and said you have the crossmember backwards; the long side goes to the drivers side, and the crossmember goes in the frame rails, not on top of it. Didn't you already box the frame?
okay I see. yes already boxed the frame. so now I know why it won't fit. now it should look like this right??

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/IMAG0272-1.jpg

[SRD art]

That looks about right from my point of view. :cool:

[gardnerme]

That looks about right from my point of view. :cool:

Ben - You don't have time to be surfing these sites right now. Don't you need to get packing?!

[SRD art]

Yep. I would respond that I'm packing wheel bearings today but I don't have time... lol!

Only have time to check my email in the mornings and occasionally see the threads I'm subscribed to. No time for surfing right now.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Hurry up, Ben! We have plenty for you to do! :razz:

One of the next steps in the process is frame notching, for rear tire clearance, and boxing of the frame rails. Once both are done, the chassis will go back in and we'll start with the roll cage installation. Some people use a kit for the frame rail notch, but we're not...its just steel, and we can make our own template and cut it out. Once the guys get back from lunch, we'll start throwing some sparks!

[SRD art]

I keep running into problems and distractions, but coming along. I'll have thread updates soon.

I didn't realize there was a kit for that, and I didn't even think of cutting new sides from sheet stock. Prolly would've been a little easier than trying to weld back in the factory parts I cut out. I'm looking forward to seeing this thing in person!

Have you started on the roll cage?

OK Sparky and Mike, back to the garage I go... ;)

[dsapper]

Any updates? I'm very interested in this thread!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks, but at the moment its on the back burner! We're moving the shop July 1, and trying to clear out as many customer projects as we can so we don't have to move them. We plan to get back on it very soon.

[amanzo00]

Anyone run into problems installng the front musclebar from ridetech into an 85 monte carlo ss?

[85coupe50]

I hope the move has happened and that you guys get back on this project. Looks like GNSEXINESS to me. The rendering anyway.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Thanks! Amanzo00, the chassis is the same as any G-body; what problems are you having?

The move has been finished up, and we're mostly squared away in the new shop, but we're concentrating on customer builds for the time being. I hope to be back on GNXcess in a few weeks.

[amanzo00]

Thanks! Amanzo00, the chassis is the same as any G-body; what problems are you having?

The move has been finished up, and we're mostly squared away in the new shop, but we're concentrating on customer builds for the time being. I hope to be back on GNXcess in a few weeks.


The posi end links just don't seem to line up to the bar holes.

Does anyone know of any bolt in rear disk brake upgrades for the G-Body?

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The posi end links just don't seem to line up to the bar holes.

Does anyone know of any bolt in rear disk brake upgrades for the G-Body?

Is it possible the front of the frame may be sightly bent, from an accident at some point? For rear discs, '88-'97 or '98-'02 F-body rear discs work well, with only minimal mods to the housng end. I actually like the earlier version better, since the e-brake is in the caliper instead of an add-on e-brake drum. We used the '98-'02 style on Project Grocery Getter.

[amanzo00]

Do you have photos of your rear disk setup and ebrake mods you can email me, [email protected]?

The stock sway bar fits on with no problems but the posi links do not align straight up and down with the new setup. I think once the motor is back in things may be better.

Thanks,
Armando

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Mine doesn't have rear discs (yet)...I'm building an 8.8 rear for it, with Moser housing ends (GM style, with press-on axle bearings), and more than likely using Z06 components, or Wilwood. For Project Grocery Getter, we used 4th Gen Camaro parts. Other than cutting off the top part of the housing end, and drilling a couple of holes, the rear brake conversion is prett simple (mostly bolt-on). We did have to space the shocks out a bit for caliper clearance. The e-brake hookp used the 4th gen F-body cables, and the rest was scratch built, but you could probably rob everything you need from a donor F-body.

Some of the pics in this album might help:

http://s813.photobucket.com/albums/zz56/bulldawgmusclecars/83%20Malibu%20Wagon/

[eparr1026]

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[wmskateteam]

what happened with this car?

[Slp223]

Hope this project has not died.

[SRD art]

I doubt this car will be going anywhere anytime soon. Joe has a lot of financial obligations that are more important than building a super car.

Last time we spoke Joe told me he was planning on selling all the Ridetech parts to cover money he owes previous employees, not likely that'll happen either though. On his facebook page he mentioned selling the Ridetech stuff along with a non running Grand National he has, so he can get started on his son's Gremlin project (?).

The Regal would've been a cool project, I did the rendering and would have really liked to see it come to fruition the way Joe talked about it. At this point, for now, it looks like it's merely a dream car? It's too bad, but sometimes plans go astray...

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The project isn't completely dead, but it isn't a priority at the moment, either. I don't have much time to post here often, with the workload of my shop, but I would appreciate it if others wouldn't speculate on my situation or intentions. Due to a move and a complete restructuring /restaffing of the shop, there hasn't been time for personal projects. Our customers' projects come first.
I had considered selling the existing suspension, and replacing it with the new Tru-Turn setup later, but I have since decided against that. The Grand National Ben mentions belongs to my son, not me, and is being sold to fund his Gremlin project.

[wmskateteam]

Well it is a very cool build and I look forward to updates once the time allows