Your ABS and Floater Solution

[chicane67]

Teaser shots... and this is all you are getting. But, it's done and this is the finalized product. This system is available for the Ford 9"... and at some time to be released... an application for the Chevrolet 8.5" and 12bolt.



Enjoy...

[parsonsj]

I'm digging it! Can you provide any information about axle sizes?

[tazzz25906112]

Interesting,,, keep me in the loop too please...

[andrewb70]

I'm digging it! Can you provide any information about axle sizes?

From the looks of it the axles will be the same size as C6 outer CV stubs, which I believe use a 28 spline axle, but I am not 100% sure.

Neat solution. A nice blend of custom work and OEM parts.

Andrew

[Payton King]

Are you working with Stielow? He did the exact same thing to his red car(Red Devil) before the last optima Challenge.

[chicane67]

I'm digging it! Can you provide any information about axle sizes?

I'll call ya JP...

[chicane67]

Are you working with Stielow? He did the exact same thing to his red car(Red Devil) before the last optima Challenge.

No. What Mark actual has, started with a conversation that he and I had at the 2009 (or 2010) optima Ultimate Street Car gig post SEMA. He went an even more simplified route... but it's also a limiting route to solve his particular issues with the ABS. I was going the same route when I initially started this endeavor... however, there were some other issues with the more simplified design that have been addressed and are now part of the basic product design of the final product. I felt like having a part with limitations, would just be another band-aid.

Both ideas do the job... it's just that one allows options that the other will never have as they are not built into the basic design from it's inception.

[parsonsj]

I'll call ya JP...

I've been staring hard at my phone. But it hasn't rung yet...

[CarlC]

Don't make me spend more money.....

[chicane67]

Oops... too late. But I already cleared it with Kristin if that makes you feel any better.

[MrQuick]

Nice job my boy, where are you working now?


Who is doing the axles? In house?

Am I sorry for all the questions? No? heh

[BADDRIDE II]

As you and others may know I am very fond of the floater concept so wanted to add some input, so please take with a grain a salt. The quality of your flange seems to be very nice, but I have to ask…..WHY? As I am not sure what has been solved here.

*C5/6 Hubs are VERY heavy (especially the SKF)
*C5/6 Stock Hubs have been known to fail
*C5/6 Hubs are NOT serviceable
*C5/6 Hubs are EXPENSIVE to replace and WILL NEED REPLACING
*C5/6 Hubs are only 28/30 spline and small diameter shaft.
*C5/6 Hubs are of poor design (VERY narrow bearing spread AND are located in-board of WMS)
*ABS can be worked into ANY design cheaply

Serious Off-road has all but done away with this weak style hub unit because of their weaknesses AND the cost to replace them when worn. Chevy/Corvette would do away with them as well but cannot due to the current suspension design (limited distance from steering knuckle face to WMS). So SKF did the best they could and increased flange thickness slightly, spread bearings slightly, and added 3 ball bearings to outer bearing to HELP combat the WMS flange ring from separating AND “ bearing play” from side loading due to poor bearing design.

So it is my thought that if you really run your car hard enough to experience “piston knock-back” and believe you require a “floater”, or run your car at speeds that you think would require additional safety of a “floater”…..somewhat like CORVETTE guys do, you will most certainly need to run the upgraded SKF Hubs to feel any sense of relief/safety. These much needed SKF hubs will run you nearly a $1000 for the pair with ½ -20 studs, installed, and shipped to your door! Not sure what your flange kit will cost…but sure seems like once you get the components needed to make this a marginally worthy performance floater, AND the initial cost of your flange kit….you could have a floater kit that is MUCH stronger AND can be serviced for pennies on the dollar compared to this C5/6 floater. So this idea would appear to the untamed eye to be slightly more affordable initially…….UNTIL its first servicing when the new hub units brake the bank!

I am not saying it will not work for some, but most requiring a floater are not mild cars, i just think that by the time you invest the money to make your kit strong (SKF) and the inevitable servicing cost, money would be better spent in other floater kits that are currently available. Just my $.02 from a consumer’s point of view and is not meant to offend you or others.

[Bryce]

This solves the ABS issue, parking brake issue and adds a floater.

If wheel backspace was chosen for performance rather than looks (think deep dish) then the bearings will see much less load and have much longer life span.

[BonzoHansen]

so with this solution, and afx front spindles, does that make retrofitting say 4th gen camaro or c5/c6 abs into an old camaro w/o being an engineering genius an actual possibility? Is ABS for the ’masses’ the next big thing?

[BADDRIDE II]

This solves the ABS issue, parking brake issue and adds a floater.



If wheel backspace was chosen for performance rather than looks (think deep dish) then the bearings will see much less load and have much longer life span.

I agree is convenient to have ABS/Park Brake integrated (props for design)....but not sure those features trump the priority of the major component itself....the hub unit and its lack of strength. Aside from these "features" that few of us need (but still can incorporate in all other floater kits). All that remains is the weak hub unit and the VERY expensive service/replacement costs.

I do understand what you are suggesting......but if a part (in this case the hub unit) relies on wheel offset to last....it is definately doomed from the start and a weak link. And again, there is NO servicing these hubs and are VERY expensive to keep replacing in stock form or REALLY expensive if upgrading to SKF. Do a simple search on yahoo under "hub unit elimination kits", it is all about getting rid of these type weak hub units, and replacing with the MUCH stronger snout style floater hubs, and has been for many years....our sport is on the "pre" side of this old subject. The ONLY reason Corvettes and others still run these hub units is because it is all that will fit, AND these type hubs are VERY inexpensive to produce and eliminate human error for preload which are both BIG incentives for Manufacturers.

[Bryce]

You always have to make compromises. I am sure the corvette engineers designed around using these hubs for certain reasons. I am sure there are enough people out there that want ABS and will see the hubs as a wear item, maybe its a few seasons of autocrosses or 100K miles of spirited street driving.

[andrewb70]

Let's not get into a pissing match here.

Different people value different attributes. That is what makes the world go round...

This product is clearly aimed at satisfying some very specific requirements.

Andrew

[ace_xp2]

If wheel backspace was chosen for performance rather than looks (think deep dish) then the bearings will see much less load and have much longer life span.

Well, if getting rid of deep dish comes by extending axle length, then you're also looking at a fair amount more axle tube and axle itself, I'd think the weight savings (of deep dish) would be better than non-existent.

[Bryce]

Well, if getting rid of deep dish comes by extending axle length, then you're also looking at a fair amount more axle tube and axle itself, I'd think the weight savings (of deep dish) would be better than non-existent.

I posted this somewhere else too:

How much weight will this save?

Lets say you narrow it by 3" on each side. so a total of 6"

housing: 3" diameter and 1/4" wall thickness has a volume of 12.95 in^3 for both sides
Axle: 1.5" diameter solid has a volume of 10.60 in^3

Density of steel is: .284 lbs/in^3
Total weight is: 6.69 pounds

If we assume the rear housing weighs 250 pounds thats a savings of 2.7%

[SLO_Z28]

As you and others may know I am very fond of the floater concept so wanted to add some input, so please take with a grain a salt. The quality of your flange seems to be very nice, but I have to ask…..WHY? As I am not sure what has been solved here.

*C5/6 Hubs are VERY heavy (especially the SKF)
*C5/6 Stock Hubs have been known to fail
*C5/6 Hubs are NOT serviceable
*C5/6 Hubs are EXPENSIVE to replace and WILL NEED REPLACING
*C5/6 Hubs are only 28/30 spline and small diameter shaft.
*C5/6 Hubs are of poor design (VERY narrow bearing spread AND are located in-board of WMS)
*ABS can be worked into ANY design cheaply

Serious Off-road has all but done away with this weak style hub unit because of their weaknesses AND the cost to replace them when worn. Chevy/Corvette would do away with them as well but cannot due to the current suspension design (limited distance from steering knuckle face to WMS). So SKF did the best they could and increased flange thickness slightly, spread bearings slightly, and added 3 ball bearings to outer bearing to HELP combat the WMS flange ring from separating AND “ bearing play” from side loading due to poor bearing design.

So it is my thought that if you really run your car hard enough to experience “piston knock-back” and believe you require a “floater”, or run your car at speeds that you think would require additional safety of a “floater”…..somewhat like CORVETTE guys do, you will most certainly need to run the upgraded SKF Hubs to feel any sense of relief/safety. These much needed SKF hubs will run you nearly a $1000 for the pair with ½ -20 studs, installed, and shipped to your door! Not sure what your flange kit will cost…but sure seems like once you get the components needed to make this a marginally worthy performance floater, AND the initial cost of your flange kit….you could have a floater kit that is MUCH stronger AND can be serviced for pennies on the dollar compared to this C5/6 floater. So this idea would appear to the untamed eye to be slightly more affordable initially…….UNTIL its first servicing when the new hub units brake the bank!

I am not saying it will not work for some, but most requiring a floater are not mild cars, i just think that by the time you invest the money to make your kit strong (SKF) and the inevitable servicing cost, money would be better spent in other floater kits that are currently available. Just my $.02 from a consumer’s point of view and is not meant to offend you or others.

^Dead on. The SKF hubs are a MUST on anything that is pushed hard. Even the C6 pilot cars didn't run production hubs because they KNEW they were going to fail, and quickly.

I wanted to post this but I already stir enough up around here