Cudas<> Camaros

[band1t]

Hey All,
I am wondering about 2 cars I dont under stand.
How come on tv builds and tv adds its always the 1969 Camaro
But on the auction block the 1970 cuda is king

How come they dont do a build off with the cuda and tv adds with the cuda?
I mean lets see a build off and do a custom cuda ...who cares how rare they are
or if its the rich mans muscle car

Maybe Mario Andretti would like to hear the sound of a 340 383 440 and the Hemi
with them mufflers instead of a vette

(if I had a Cuda Id give the Factory specs and Paint the FINGER and hack away and DRIVE IT)

[Amatouring]

They are both great cars and can both make amazing PT cars but there are and were more first gen camaros so they cost less and have more aftermarket support. Once the heavy fabrication begins, the cost evens out because custom parts don't care what they get welded to. While I am definitely not a rich man, I do like my 70 cuda. It leans a little more towards bolt on restomod than real pro touring, but I do like to drive it hard even with no finger on the back.

[MonzaRacer]

Cause Mopar fanatics sometimes spend more for their crap, even if it isnt worth anymore. Heck when a ChryCo engine costs 5 times as much as a Chevy its like my laptop is equal to a MacBook Pro of same vintage,,,and guess what,I have even ran the hacked OSx on it,,,not impressed.
It kind of like when my high school went apple instead of IBM PC,,,when me and my cousin both graduated,,,him from different Indiana high school,,,, he went on to Purdue for computers,,, and knew more about them than the professor at Purdue.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

you know what i always wondered?

they made the least 67 camaros.. but you can find them THE MOST on craigslist.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[CreepinDeth]

Because the Chevy is affordable.

Classic Chrysler products skyrocketed in value for some odd reason.

[band1t]

Because the Chevy is affordable.

Classic Chrysler products skyrocketed in value for some odd reason.

That I dont understand I can take a 318 cuda and its worth $20,000 tops.
take the same 318 cuda drop a crate Hemi in it and its Hundreds of thousands.

Maybe someone should drop a 426 hemi in the 1969 Camaro to see what people would pay
I mean people put a 350 chevy in Ford T-Buckets all the time

[bigtime]

well we can start with build numbers. they only made 50k 1970 barracuda's total versus 281K 1969 camaros.

Don't forget most mopars were neglected untill the chevys got all bought up and by then the collectors realised mopar made alot of factory muscle cars but in limited numbers.

[johnparts]

It is all in production numbers. A ZL1 Camaro will fetch a heafty sum as well because so few were made or a 69 rs z28 with the dual quad cross ram intake will get up there as well. I like the fact that Mopars were finally brought into the high end market but they are rediculous price wise.

[novaderrik]

i remember when i passed up a perfectly running and solid 340 Cuda for $1500 because i was 19 and i'm a Chevy guy dammit and screw those stupid Mopars..that was almost 20 years ago.. i'd have made a pretty good chunk of cash off that car if i'd got it and held onto it for a few years..
i don't remember similar 67-69 Camaros ever being that cheap in similar condition- they've always been at least $5000 cars for the entire 22 years i've been into cars..

[band1t]

It is all in production numbers. A ZL1 Camaro will fetch a heafty sum as well because so few were made or a 69 rs z28 with the dual quad cross ram intake will get up there as well. I like the fact that Mopars were finally brought into the high end market but they are rediculous price wise.

OK, I think Production number are off today BECAUSE I can call year one buy a 1969 camaro body
build it into a z28 Zl1 or SS car and got down to the DOT and say VIN it as a Z28 Zl1 or SS car

[DartorDemon]

Because the Chevy is affordable.

Classic Chrysler products skyrocketed in value for some odd reason.

Simple supply and demand. There arent as many of the high value chrysler products. The more common stuff(like my duster) is still relatively cheap to buy and build. Not to mention the challenger/cuda has not be effed out styling wise. So people still find them new/interesting.

A 1st gen camaro has been done in every possible way and IMO is very boring.

[andrewb70]

There is one concept that is central to the study of economics, and it is very applicable in this case. Enjoy...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYuHUdE_pys

Andrew

[High Plains Mopars]

Hey All,
How come they dont do a build off with the cuda and tv adds with the cuda?
I mean lets see a build off and do a custom cuda ...who cares how rare they are
or if its the rich mans muscle car



That I dont understand I can take a 318 cuda and its worth $20,000 tops.
take the same 318 cuda drop a crate Hemi in it and its Hundreds of thousands.



OK, I think Production number are off today BECAUSE I can call year one buy a 1969 camaro body
build it into a z28 Zl1 or SS car and got down to the DOT and say VIN it as a Z28 Zl1 or SS car

These are very broad statements that demonstrate you don't understand the mopar market very well. As others have said, it is simple economics compounded, as Andrew said, by perceived value. Remember that the entire 70-74 E body Cuda production was something around 60,000 units, give or take. By contrast, Chevy produced this many 69 Camaros in one quarter alone and you can buy brand new reproduction bodies for $10k now. You cannot find new Cuda bodies. This alone means they will cost more to acquire, in any condition. That can be a big factor if you are producing a tv show that has budget contraints. If you can build an entire small block 69 Camaro for what it costs to just acquire the rust free Cuda shell without an engine requiring all the same overhaul work, well, your budget is blown and your show is out of business.

A big part of the market that drives value with the mopar guys is that unlike your example of buy a new Camaro body and vin it as an SS, mopar vins carry very specific connotations of what a car was born with that it carrys for the rest of its life that has a huge impact on its percieved value. Yes, your very nice but lowly 318 Barracuda is worth $20k, but simply slapping a Hemi in it does not make a $100k car. The very small, but important number sequence of the vin creates a pedigree that means certain cars will always be worth. Like the ZL1, Hemi Cuda and 6-pak Cudas are infinitely more rare and therefore create a big perception of value to a lot of people. These are the million dollar cars you see on tv. The reality is, in the mopar world, a 74 318 Barracuda can never be worth as much as a 71 Hemi Cuda because of the pedigree. Even it is has a Hemi and if it it was built by any given tv personality. It simply won't happen. If you didn't know it, there is a very distinct difference between a Barracuda and a Cuda that drives a lot of that value and it can't be faked very easily by simply putting badges on it.

Once upon a time mopars were cheap to pick up because not many people concerned themselves with them. Now days, that perception has changed and the inherently low prodution numbers means there are more people trying to buy less product that is out there. To us mopar faithful, it is a double edge sword as it means the aftermarket is finally producing parts for us, but the base cars have gotten so expensive that they are tough to get into now.

BTW, there is a new Challenger body shell in pre-production work by Dynacorn, just like the Camaro version. It hasn't been released yet, but you want to take a stab at price...roughly twice that of the equivilent Camaro. Simple supply and demand brother. Brand loyality isn't a big factor, just simple economics. Now, maybe if everyone who wants to build a new Camaro buys a new Challenger instead, then we'll see prices drop. But until that happens, it costs more to play with the popular mopar models.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Am i the only one but I like the name "Barracuda" more than "Cuda"

it just sounds more aggressive... Cuda sounds like the name of an annoying eastern european jewish nanny.

there go Cuda right there..

"awww waaat?.. youa dona likeme?... nnyyyaaahhhh."
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
^ this kid... scared to death.____________________^ Mrs. Hildemunda Cuda.





























ahaha

[mikedc]

IMHO these cars have just gotten old enough that 1960s/70s brand loyalty is no longer holding Mopar's popularity down. Now the strengths of the Mopars (looks & performance) are becoming the main reason anyone still wants cars of that era. Meanwhile the original downsides of Mopars (bad production tolerances & quality control) have become basically irrelevant since any decent car nowadays has been restored by hand.

[UNGN]

I drove a '71 'Cuda convert to college in the 1980's.

I paid $7500 for it when "k code" '65 289 Mustang converts were selling for $12,000.

My 'Cuda340 would stomp the crap out of 289 mustang and was as rare as a GT500 convert, but 289 mustang guys still blah blah blahed about how much their cars were worth, and "wtf is that, anyway?".

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/71cuda4-1.jpg https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/71cuda3-1.jpg


A few years later in the late '80's, my dad calls me up and says a guy want to sell his 'Cuda440-6 for $6,500. I asked him why he wasn't over there paying the guy $6,500.

He came home with a 27,000 mile, numbers matching 440-6bbl '70, that still had "bicentenial" license plates on it:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/blkcuda-1.jpg

In the early '90's I bought another out of the Fort Worth classifieds for $5K. It was an original Plum Crazy, A/C 440-4bbl:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/plumcuda-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/4404eng-1.jpg

The Truth is that in the '80's and even into the '90's most people didn't really know much about 'Cuda's. Most people have never daily driven one, tried to restore one or lived with one for thousands of miles.

When 'Cuda's got to be crazy, we sold the 3 we had... 2 years too early, it seems, because then they got STUPID crazy. When I saw them selling for 6 figures and then 7 figures, all I could think was "have these people never driven one?"

Mopars aboslutely suck to drive in their stock form, but mopar purests say "you'll kill the value" if you modify it. Not wanting to kill the value, you drive a numb steering, drum braked buckboard that understeers until it oversteers and kills you.

I had already stopped driving my '71 convert 15 years earlier when I bought a brand new '86 mustang GT convert, with that new fuel injection stuff... Speed, handling, ride, braking, shifting, comfort, air conditioning, Leather, tires, fuel economy, steering feel, build quality and it wasn't just a "loose collection of parts flying 2 feet off the ground in close formation"... So what if everyone isn't looking at you mouthing "WTF is that?"