Faulty Leaf Spring Anyone???

[DippedInSauce]

Hey guys, I'm aware that a lot of you have utilized the wide range of four link rear suspension kits offered for your 1st gen F-Bodys. There are however some who like me, still use the factory style leaf springs. I've had my car since 2002 and its been through many resto mod transformations. Most of them have proven to positively effect and enhance my car. There have however been a few acceptations. With that said, who has ever had a rear leaf spring completely snap in half??? Not the entire spring but maybe just one of the 1-4 steal sections which strap together to form the leaf spring? Please share your experiences. Weather it was an oem leaf spring your 2500 turbo diesel snapped while towing an RV or in my case the leaf spring on my 3000 lb 1st Gen F-Body while driving 40 miles per hour in route to the gym. :banghead:

[rustomatic]

When I used to drive a truck for a living, I was actually red-tagged at a scale (Cordelia on I-80, if you're wondering) for having a whole bunch of broken leaves on my tractor. I think that rather than breaking from a load (I only hauled mail, which was light), the breakage actually occurred from axle twist under torque, largely as a result of driving around too much without a trailer. Torque, when applied haphazardly, twists the leaf-sprung axle like a *******... It's two cents...

[DippedInSauce]

Hey Rustomatic, thanks for your reply. Yeah I live in the East bay area so I'm pretty familiar with 80. Your haphazardly applied torque theory is far more respectable than what the leaf spring manufacture suggested as the probable reason for my leaf spring failure. I was told it was due to the weight of my speaker enclosure i have mounted behind my rear seats just above my rear axle. The rep for the manufacture said that the springs are engineered to handle my cars factory weight and that the 44 pound enclosure was most likely responsible for my failure. My car has an ls2 with a tune and has never seen the track. I wonder if my motors 400lb torque rating could cause the snap even if the rpms are on the lower end of the spectrum??

[neki67]

On my 67 I started with the original monoleafs with 2" lowering blocks in between. At 40+ years old and having a show off driver/owner the left one finally succumbed. It snapped right underneath the axle as, according to what I read later on, are designed to do (weak point).

[DippedInSauce]

Interesting. Yeah I didn't have any lowering blocks installed. Just the pads supplied by the leaf spring manufacturer. The spring has three sections and the middle one snapped right in the center. I wonder if the speaker enclosure the manufacture pointed out as being the cause somehow aged the spring 40 years?? .

[dontlifttoshift]

The rep for the manufacture said that the springs are engineered to handle my cars factory weight and that the 44 pound enclosure was most likely responsible for my failure.

WTF?!? There are no emoticons to display what I think of that statement. That rep is an idiot, plain and simple.

I have heard of monoleafs and multileafs developing cracks at the hole where the alignment pin go but I have never seen a leaf spring (that wasn't 40 or more years old) crack.

[DippedInSauce]

Yeah I've been asking around for months and found noone who has been able to produce a similar experience. And yes I'm an engineer in Telecommunications so not quite the same playing field but I interpreted the manufacture's theory as bs also .

[DippedInSauce]

Yeah I will never buy another Hotchkis product. They are crooked and cut corners in order to increase their profits.

[DippedInSauce]

Lmao!! Yeah it was pretty insulting. And the fact that hotchkis had the nerve to sell that as the likely cause is insane. As soon as I'm able to allocate $3000 I can order my G-Link and feel confident hauling passengers & groceries.

[DippedInSauce]

Rod and Mr Wright: you are right. I did contact John Hotchkis himself who asked for a write up of all that had happened. He then handed me off to Henry Hancock who agreed to compensate me for 75% of my losses as long as I signed a release form. After I went over the form I emailed mr Hancock back to get the document updated with my name and inquire about the other 25% and they pulled a 180 and cut all communication and forwarded me to their attorney. Once I finish my current project at work I'll file the small claims documents. And as for the comment "good when selling and poor after sales" that's on the money. When I was left stranded in southern CA after a Farman ball joint failed, my insurance company paid Hotchkis $3600 to replace my front suspension. After driving 350 miles back to northern California I was shocked at how poorly my car handled. The SPC uppers had a Howe balljoint which saved my car form destruction. I replaced it for safe measure and reinstalled the spc's along with hotrodstohell lowers. The car handled 10x better. The Hotchkis arms had my car sitting up far too high and under acceleration the front of the car would do a fast and the furious and lift up. IMO Hotchkis is only good for sway bars NOTHING else.

[DippedInSauce]

Rod, yes I will never recommend another Hotchkis product EVER again and will go out of my way to warn others. If I were on the freeway when their leaf spring snapped in half, my car and my self would have been totaled. I've seen the conditions at the Hotchkis shop in so cal as I've been there. Both Hotchkis and B&M (so cal based) are faulty profit over quality hungry operations. Mark at SC&C is the most helpful, informative, legit individual I have encountered throughout my entire build. Spc is great. And hotrodstohell IMO offers the best bolt on replacement lower arms. And yes they are equipped with Howe lower balljoints also.

[David Pozzi]

I've been a Suspension section Moderator on this forum AND on the Team Camaro forum for over 10 years. I have NEVER heard of a Hotchkis leaf spring breaking. I'm not saying yours didn't break, but if it did it is the first one reported on this forum out of what must be thousands. It IS entirely possible for a leaf spring to get the wrong heat treatment and fail. I have also seen a LOT of truck leaf springs break over the 48 years of farm repair I have done. I have a lot of experience with Hotchkis parts for first and second gen Camaros including their A arms, and they work as good or better than other well known brands. The only Forum issues I have seen posted have been ride height variations due to car weight or parts chosen, and ride quality depending on the members likes or dislikes. Quite a few years ago there was a batch with the center bolt too far forward, the springs were recalled. I have been to their shop many times & seen the work done there and don't share your opinion. I DO agree Mark at SC&C IS a great guy.

I would advise you to not continue name calling of Hotchkis as "Crooks", ETC in this Forum, & please stick to the facts or the moderators will intervene. We have a Feedback Forum section for issues like this where each party can present their case. I advise you to use it rather than bringing up a dead thread from May 2011 on ride height to inject your complaint. https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?80179-1969-Camaro-drop-leaf-spring&p=908351&highlight=#post908351
Here is the Feed Back Forum link: https://www.pro-touring.com/forumdisplay.php?121-Feedback

I understand there were some problems in getting this resolved. I hope you get something worked out with them.

[David Pozzi]

If Hotchkis posts in this thread, it will be moved to the feedback forum & all other posts will be deleted. The feedback forum only allows the vendor & Customer to post to avoid "piling on" posts that while they may be somewhat informative, they don't bear directly on the customer's complaint.

[DippedInSauce]

Add Content

[DippedInSauce]

Nope none of that! The car is a cruiser and high speed freeway road tripper. No burnouts no road racing no abusing. I was driving 35mph up hill to the gym. They broke cuz they weren't tempered correctly from what I'm told.

[DippedInSauce]

Pics of the car

[Hotchkis]

Hi All,

I have been monitoring this thread and have been discussing with the moderators here, and feel its time to set a few things straight. Also would like to thank our customers and friends who have chimed in. First and foremost, for the past 19 years I have built my company on a reputation for superior engineering, quality parts and excellent customer service. We try to make every customer happy and deliver outstanding quality and performance with every part we sell, and we back them with a warranty. That said, when a customer does have a problem, we try to rectify it as quickly as possible with the goal of making the customer happy. Unfortunately, in this instance, despite repeated efforts to do our best to make this customer happy things haven't worked out. I will outline what transpired below.

As soon as Chris contacted Hotchkis, we shipped him a replacement set of leaf springs free of charge. This was in spite of the 8 year old leaf springs being out of their 3 year warranty and Chris modifying the parts with traction bars. Installation of the traction bar constitutes a violation of the warranty since it increases the stress and load on the leaf spring.

Chris then contacted us and claimed his car incurred damages and demanded compensation. As Hotchkis’s President and owner, I spoke with Chris via phone and requested he send a sample of the broken spring and an itemization of the expenses he incurred. Chris supplied the itemized list of expenses but has repeatedly refused to send a sample of the broken spring.

At that point, I asked our General Manager, Henry, to try to find a way to make Chris happy. We made the following offer:

“In order that we maintain our reputation for superior customer service we will agree to compensate you for your inconvenience in this matter for the amount of $2,171. Per our conversation the following items total $2,171:
• Alston shock $175
• Installation of replacement leaf springs $400
• Body work $1346
• Rear tire. $250
• Total: $2,171.00"

The only item we did not agree to pay for was the installation of the Competition Engineering traction bars, which we believe may have been at least partly to blame for the incident. Again this was purely an effort to soothe an unhappy customer, with an eight year old set of springs. Chris committed to this arrangement and said that he would return the damaged leaf spring in the pre-paid box provided by Hotchkis, but at the last minute he changed his mind and declined the offer and asked for more.

We believe in making excellent suspension parts, here in the USA, providing the best customer service experience and backing everything up with real people who really know and understand the muscle car market. This type of incident is regrettable, but fortunately has been extremely rare. In fact, we've never experienced anything quite like this in nearly 20 years.

Again, I'd like to thank our customers and friends who stood up for us in this thread, we will continue to push forward and develop great parts that are made in the USA and provide excellent value.

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
John Hotchkis

[David Pozzi]

As promised I've moved this thread into the Feedback Forum and deleted most of the posts by other members. My apologies to the members who's comments I deleted but our policy is to restrict posts in Feedback to the involved parties. I did leave some posts because they solicited more information.
Any further posts will be individually approved by the Moderators. This can sometimes take a day or so depending on available Moderator time.
David

[DippedInSauce]

Hi All,

I have been monitoring this thread and have been discussing with the moderators here, and feel its time to set a few things straight. Also would like to thank our customers and friends who have chimed in. First and foremost, for the past 19 years I have built my company on a reputation for superior engineering, quality parts and excellent customer service. We try to make every customer happy and deliver outstanding quality and performance with every part we sell, and we back them with a warranty. That said, when a customer does have a problem, we try to rectify it as quickly as possible with the goal of making the customer happy. Unfortunately, in this instance, despite repeated efforts to do our best to make this customer happy things haven't worked out. I will outline what transpired below.

As soon as Chris contacted Hotchkis, we shipped him a replacement set of leaf springs free of charge. This was in spite of the 8 year old leaf springs being out of their 3 year warranty and Chris modifying the parts with traction bars. Installation of the traction bar constitutes a violation of the warranty since it increases the stress and load on the leaf spring.

Chris then contacted us and claimed his car incurred damages and demanded compensation. As Hotchkis’s President and owner, I spoke with Chris via phone and requested he send a sample of the broken spring and an itemization of the expenses he incurred. Chris supplied the itemized list of expenses but has repeatedly refused to send a sample of the broken spring.

At that point, I asked our General Manager, Henry, to try to find a way to make Chris happy. We made the following offer:

“In order that we maintain our reputation for superior customer service we will agree to compensate you for your inconvenience in this matter for the amount of $2,171. Per our conversation the following items total $2,171:
• Alston shock $175
• Installation of replacement leaf springs $400
• Body work $1346
• Rear tire. $250
• Total: $2,171.00"

The only item we did not agree to pay for was the installation of the Competition Engineering traction bars, which we believe may have been at least partly to blame for the incident. Again this was purely an effort to soothe an unhappy customer, with an eight year old set of springs. Chris committed to this arrangement and said that he would return the damaged leaf spring in the pre-paid box provided by Hotchkis, but at the last minute he changed his mind and declined the offer and asked for more.

We believe in making excellent suspension parts, here in the USA, providing the best customer service experience and backing everything up with real people who really know and understand the muscle car market. This type of incident is regrettable, but fortunately has been extremely rare. In fact, we've never experienced anything quite like this in nearly 20 years.

Again, I'd like to thank our customers and friends who stood up for us in this thread, we will continue to push forward and develop great parts that are made in the USA and provide excellent value.

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
John Hotchkis

I've been away from the forums for a while. This faulty leaf spring incident left a bad taste in my mouth and made driving my Firebird feel unsafe and nauseating. Had the failure I experienced happened on the highway the result would have been horrific. I decided to utilize the knowledge I gained from this horrible incident, remove the body from the firebird and start over. I took a queue from the most helpful, knowledgeable individual I've encountered during my 11 year ownership of this car. Mark at SC&C. I installed an entire new front and rear Chassisworks suspension. Paired with one of their new sub frames. I'm extremely happy with this system. Now I drive the car with the confidence I won’t suffer a life threatening failure.

The body damage to the quarter panel from when the spring let go, inspired a new paint job. I went with GM cyber gray. It’s an awesome color. I now own one of the nicest first gen firebirds in my area.

John, unfortunately your depiction of the reimbursement is inaccurate. John, you never made good on the agreement to reimburse me for the damages I suffered as a result of choosing your product. Your offer was exactly what would’ve been required to make this situation right. But at the last minute you decided to rescind it and I was then forwarded to your Hotchkis legal counsel. If I didn’t reside 400+ miles from what would be the venue for a small claims case, I’d have gladly taken the spring, photos, witness/expert statements to court. I instead focused my efforts on the Firebird. The result was positive, a complete 180. I still have the failed Hotchkis leaf spring. I've made an awesome poster board and will have it on display with my car at ALL the northern and southern California Goodguys shows. I will also bring it with me to the local car shows. If I can get the word out and prevent what I experienced from happening to other enthusiasts, I’ll feel vindicated. Being that the Hotchkis leaf spring snapped in two pieces it fits conveniently in my trunk.