Lets call this Brainstorming on a budget. 68 Camaro re-build needs help...

[whytry]

Hello all,

Been going thru some major changes and about time to get my project back on track. Its a 68 Camaro, dreams of becoming a Procharged LS.... What I am trying to do here is get ideas on how relatively inexpensive I can complete my swap for while still being able to have fun (I have 2 boys 5 and 3, so all funds can't go to this project) but even now my boys are asking if they can go in "daddy's fast loud red car" when it gets hot out again... N I don't wanna disappoint my kids... So I am gonna try my best...

Car currently has no motor, was a 468 with a F1R Procharger, and a TKO-600 with RST Mcleod clutch. Ford 9" that needs a new 3rd member for drivetrain.

I still have the TKO-600 and the Procharger to use but I wanted to see what others would do if they were in my situation, like sell the TKO, and get a complete LS and tranny pullout (prob from Travis) and start there and then get the bracket for the Procharger from A n A (I think that was it, I saw a post in the Power adders section about a similar setup) and go from there? Things like that....

Now keep in mind I have minimal skills when it comes to welding and boxing the frame, etc... So anything that requires me to cut front crossmember is going to be an issue for me in the car's current state... Ideally I would love to figure out what/how to setup a LS with a Procharger and using alternator and AC for accessories without having to cut frame or make my own bracket.. I know it might be a dream but I'm trying to get it all on one thread rather than post several different ones in each specific forum.....

My current thoughts from everything I have found so far are as follows...

LQ4 or LQ9 with that bracket from A n A for the procharger and Vette accessories, with LS2(?) intake and maybe some minor head work on some L92 heads,and probably using one of the LS swap header, motor mount, and tranny crossmember install kits, but again there are so many and varying opinions here as well, I'm kinda lost.... Mating that with my TK0-600 and converting to Hydraullic clutch, but I am not sure exactly how this is done, bellhousing change I'm assuming but again haven't checked it out yet in the tranny section on the board yet.....

Am I on the right path? Input very much needed

Unless someone out there is looking for a car to sponsor, in that care PLEASE CALL ME.... :cheers:

[MrQuick]

Hi Brad, long time.

The first thing I would do is figure an honest budget, then make a goal of the project, set a plan of attack, then impliment milestones or stages you should be at a specific time frame. in the mean time start shopping for bargins. also start networking as you are to get help finding parts.

as far as sponsership, too bad you didn't have plans to build a second gen f body.

[RobNoLimit]

If you decide to sell the 600, let me know. I have used many aftermarket hydrolic throwout bearings, and, i'm over 'em. My mext build will go back to a slave outside the bellhousing. Once you've pulled a trans a few times to service/replace the trick hydrolic throwout, you'll understand.

[whytry]

Yeah been awhile vince!!!! Trying to get back.... Major life changes making it really different than for me. Budget wise.... Thats some of the reason for my post, I don't know what I should be budgeting for this setup this time around. It's just gonna be something I will fine tune as I go n once I get some ideas from here. I've searched around for ideas on the budget based on others here.... But this is definitely something I'm gonna do just the timeframe is what could change based on build prices.. I know the motor is key for the rest of the budget, so once I get the motor I can better establish a budget...

[SparkyRnD]

sell the TKO, and sell the ProCharger. Get a nice LQ4/t56 combo and do a program, headers, intake, cam and possibly heads. Will be more than powerful enough to have a ton of fun, and the TKO / ProCharger sale will help fund most of the other parts

[BonzoHansen]

Hi Brad, long time.

The first thing I would do is figure an honest budget, then make a goal of the project, set a plan of attack, then impliment milestones or stages you should be at a specific time frame. in the mean time start shopping for bargins. also start networking as you are to get help finding parts.

as far as sponsership, too bad you didn't have plans to build a second gen f body.

what he said. budget, intended use, go from there

on a side note, who wants to give 2nd gen guys stuff? I like stuff! lol

[Tom Welch]

Ditto on what Mr. Quick said, the ls motor is the way to go, no welding is really needed, we are currently doing 2 swaps right now in our shop, we haven't needed to weld anything, yet. You and a good friend can do this swap without any trouble if you plan it out carefully.

[Tom Welch]

I re-read your first post and no frame cutting is needed when using the appropriate oil pan, check Prodigy's website for an example of whats out there. A stock lq4 or lq9 with ls3 heads, intake and the right cam is staring at 500 hp, easily.

[MonzaRacer]

So my question is is a LS mandatory? If not think of something a little more easy to do like a single or twin turbo sbc. See I am doing this instead of doing a LSx one because I have majority of hard parts and my car(77 Monza )isnt set up to mod for an LSx easy,,,,its been done but dang man, when you have to spend anywhere from $800 to $1500 EVEN if running a carb for ingition and headers and mounts.
Honestly I am still looking at buying my own tubing and using my little tig welder(it was $378 plus tax from Thermal Arc) and build my own turbo headers. looking at Ebay turbos. Smoove69 already proved old plain jane Turbo coupe turbos can run hard, and over on the theturboforums.com Marty (trbo355) proved that even a cast piston/cast crank boat anchor CAN run hard and never blow.
Me I am first going to get new job or shop opened up, then build my 6in rod 302 chevy, all forged parts, use my old school double humps as they are nearly done and nearly free.
I intend to use a LT1 intake, use Megasquirt FI to run it and build my own dis ignition for it.
My trans will most likely be a th350 and I will eventually upgrade to Corvette brakes with adapters from Kore3.
since I want to track this car, Iwill most likely use Ridetech coil overs first then work on adding ShockWaves in front later and CoolRide in back.
I also will finish my rear suspension kit that does away with the torque arm to give more room for dual exhaust.
I am looking for 17 in wheels to clear my brakes and appropriate size tires.

Now for your car, get a carb setup by the guy over on theturbofourms.com with the crutch is the easiest, if you get things tuned in with a wideband O2 using the crutch, which is simply an externally activated power valve.
It can be done for considerably less than a mid to high end FI set up allowing a blow through setup to run well and be safe.
Any reasonably well built sbc could make considerable power and be inexpensive and hard running and drivable (http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/the-builds-board-hall-of-fame-builds/how-long-till-it-grenades-%28-it-never-did!-go-figure-%29-grenade-part-2-to-come/).
Look at that link, read a few pages before you discount turbos for power adder over a procharger.
Heck even a reasonably well built big block with few addresses to longevity and holding head gaskets and a mild turbo big block could be fun.
Also why lose the trans, there is nothing wrong with it. And there are several ways to handle clutch duties.
I keep seeing cookie cutter cars all got same or similar drivelines and while they make power, you say you dont have a money tree, so go with cheaper , dare to be different, plan, and all the fun is still there.
The guy in that link is running an sbc, transbraked th400 and 9in ford with 3.00 to 1 gears and knocks down 20+ cruising. With your trans and it having overdrive you could run so hard and still get good mileage.
Money or brains,,,anyone can throw in an LS an charge lots of parts to make them fit,,,honestly the hard so many dance the LSx dance it makes me WANT to run old school engines.
Just my thoughts, use your ingenuity and build a fun car and enjoy. Oh and dont be afraid to DARE TO BE DIFFERENT!
Heck my first iteration of my car was going to have a Northstar in it.

[MonzaRacer]

Points for running junk:
357sbc cast pistons,crank, one cylinder sleeved 100k+ worn out
991 truck heads 1.74 intakes 1.50 exhaust LT1 springs.
TPI intake mild clean up 58mm BBK throttle body
MSD crank trigger/gutted ditributor
Commander 950 with TPI harness
Comp268h cam from trash can, mismatched lifters
2 85-86 GN stock turbos Freightliner intercooler
55# injectors
Wideband O2
Transbrake th400, 3.00 9in 31 spline locker Dutchman axles custom torque arm that doubles as snout reinforcement
M/T ET Streets
Fast dont have to be expensive!

This is all I can remember off top of my head,,,so:

Car built buy TRBO355 over on theturboforums.com
Re: How long till it grenades? (10.26 @ 134!!!!!)
« Reply #228 on: September 09, 2006, 07:38:07 PM »


I always get back late but i AM posting as soon as i walk thru the door! Heh heh. Ok boys and girls, the engine is STILL alive but i think the transmission may be wounded. It ran a 10.29 @ 134 on motor and 22 psi and made a weird clunk shifting into second like maybe a torque arm problem. Everything checked out so i hit it with spray and pulled an astounding (for my car) 1.54 60 ft. and (damn this pisses me off) went 10.03 @ 139.75!!!!! F**k me runnin! I about lost it when i got the slip and started beating the dashboard!!! Boost was a way overcooked 25.5 psi on NOS too. We regrouped and leaned it out a bit since the plugs looked like poop and showed waaay rich and cooled it down, soaked the intercooler and hit it again. The car spun and only went 1.74 in the 60ft. and when it shifted to 2nd, the rpm dropped a little soft then it acted like it hit the 6k rev limiter and then slammed into 2nd and held firm. It went 10.46 @ 138 all messed up anyway. I will check the cable to make sure nothing got sloppy but i think the sprag is slipping then catching violently. You would think that one sprag misfire would send it straight to the dumpster though but who knows. But on the bright side, it drove home flawless and also made a 100 mile round trip before the races and averaged 20 MPG!!! I was thinking stupid stuff on the road trip like adding cruise control and maybe better speakers to the stereo system! LOL damn, 20 mpg and almost 9's! I guess i cant bitch but am still ticked off about a 10.03. Oh well, maybe monday i will blow it up on the dyno!

Try that one for cheap power and fun.

[exwestracer]

Not sure what they cost used, but a Vette (or aftermarket) dry sump pan solves ALL your LS crossmember problems, with a bunch of other benefits as well. The rest of the dry sump parts can be had for a grand (shopping carefully).

I'm with Lee on the "junkyard" turbo deal, but using EFI.

[MonzaRacer]

Not sure what they cost used, but a Vette (or aftermarket) dry sump pan solves ALL your LS crossmember problems, with a bunch of other benefits as well. The rest of the dry sump parts can be had for a grand (shopping carefully).

I'm with Lee on the "junkyard" turbo deal, but using EFI.



Yeah Ray, not knocking LSx BUT when it takes $2k to build an LSx less engine for most part with ignition and headers and mounts THEN you have to decide on an engine,,,it just takes the fun out of it. I mean if you CAN spend $5k to get and engine in and running as most of us would HAVE to buy most of the parts.
I wont have $1000 in my complete engien and if I use my TH350 trans included. And I would be able to instal an HEI my old Scorpion intake and one of my Edelbrock/AFB carbs and drive it while doing the FI parts and mocking up most of the turbo stuff, AND be able to source proper suspension part (ie prototype stuff for it).
But ever think of how much fun it would be if you didnt spend $1000 on parts but figured out a pile of used parts AND make it run like stink,,,thats all I have ever been able to afford.
Dont get me wrong I dont begrudge a guy who CAN but its much more fulfilling to take a pile of crap and make a running car.
At least to me, and on a budget look at it from the stand point DO YOU REALLY NEED IT or can you make,build,swap,do with out it?
Like brakes, while I would LOVE to use a Gbody style aftermarket spindle like ATS/L&H, but Ill have to stick with ZQ8 stuff and Kore 3 bracket, and buy Corvette brake parts as I can.
One car I set a min/max of $20 a week for parts, sometimes just buying little things would kill me or I would have to wait two or three weeks to get what I needed But drove car for over 10yrs off and on.

[seancarole]

I'm just curious what happened to the 468 and how was it with tko?
If you are dead set a LS motor $1000 a turbo would be your best deal you can use the cast Corvette manifolds flipped upside down mount two medium sized $800 turbos and run e85 no need for intercooler and it would be best for ease of it all to holly hp efi $1400 for monitoring and $ 2000 for other B.S. and what trans to run. around $5200 good luck

[whytry]

Intentions changed... It was fun yes, but I had a nightmare of a time trying to tune it properly and when I have my little boys running around wanting to go for a ride and I'm messing with the carb because it was "finicky" I finally gave up and sold the BBC.....

I am not very familiar with Turbo's so its new territory to me. But I'm liking the ideas you guys are all throwing at me. Tom, thanks for the tips on talking to Frank to get a setup to bolt right in and no need for frame cutting, etc. I will be calling him shortly......

I guess my biggest fear is running the tubing for turbo's. I am not the best welder and this will be something I farm out to someone and that can be quite costly I'm told... Part of the reason for Procharger... simplier install...