Building scratch frame

[DaveJS]

I'm going to attempt to build a frame from scratch for a 65 A body and use a C4 front suspension and C4 Rear IRS suspension. I could just hack the two frames together not caring about the finished look or performance but I choose not to.

My question is this does anyone have prints for a 64-67 GM A body frame and Prints for a C4 Frame that could be used to reduce the reinvention I,m facing?

Thanks,

Dave

[astroracer]

Go to a good body shop that has a chassis straightening machine. They should have the books or manuals that will give you dimensions for a lot of the hard points on the chassis used for straightening. Another alternative is to pickup a junk chassis for your car to use as a mule.
This is a lot of work, believe me. There are chassis available from the aftermarket to do what you want to do. One way or the other the cost is about the same whether you design and build it yourself or buy one already made...

[DaveJS]

I have an extra frame from another wagon I scrapped out, it looks stright enough. Unless I get I get some laser and build a big killer jig no way to really check squreness. I have the C4 stiiting as a bare roller tube, they body and frame are grafted together at the factory.
Off the top of my head the C4 frame where it flairs out to the rocker is about a total of 1" wider then the A Body. The C4 Suspension does not just "bolt up" or "Fab" right in as some might think. I looked at Schwartz, Alston, Hot Rod Factory and they are all out of my price range being married with children. A local company does rectangular tube bending and can bend the entire frame in 2X3 mild steel if I have prints and even less if I have a Solid Works 3D model for rapid design. Rough estimate was $600-$750 for metal and another $600-$750 for bending. Total price even going over is aprx. $2000, another company up does metal fab and welding. They have slow time after construction season and can fixture and weld the frame up holding it square for as the manager stated $500-$750.
I did try talking to a few of the companies that do make frames and they will either sell me a partial kit or custome built parts on the low side of $8500. So if on the high side each local shops charging $1000 I'm still way under aftermarket frames.

[exwestracer]

I have an extra frame from another wagon I scrapped out, it looks stright enough. Unless I get I get some laser and build a big killer jig no way to really check squreness. I have the C4 stiiting as a bare roller tube, they body and frame are grafted together at the factory.
Off the top of my head the C4 frame where it flairs out to the rocker is about a total of 1" wider then the A Body. The C4 Suspension does not just "bolt up" or "Fab" right in as some might think. I looked at Schwartz, Alston, Hot Rod Factory and they are all out of my price range being married with children. A local company does rectangular tube bending and can bend the entire frame in 2X3 mild steel if I have prints and even less if I have a Solid Works 3D model for rapid design. Rough estimate was $600-$750 for metal and another $600-$750 for bending. Total price even going over is aprx. $2000, another company up does metal fab and welding. They have slow time after construction season and can fixture and weld the frame up holding it square for as the manager stated $500-$750.
I did try talking to a few of the companies that do make frames and they will either sell me a partial kit or custome built parts on the low side of $8500. So if on the high side each local shops charging $1000 I'm still way under aftermarket frames.

The rear is no big deal to mount to a custom frame. You might consider using the complete C4 front stub to save a lot of figuring for all the mounts.

The benefit to using the stock A-body rails is all the body mounts are there and you know they fit. That is where we run into the biggest problems in building full frames; the body mounts need to run right THROUGH the rails in some cases.

[DaveJS]

The first plan was to cut the front stub off and rear suspension from the C4 and weld it to the frame I have. Then the other ideas set in and it started to appear as though a full scratch build would be better in the long run. Here are some of the thoughts of why going to an all new frame came to be.
1. Old frame will need to be sandblasted
2. Will need to box frame
3. Cross bracing with steel exhaust cut outs and driveshaft loop
4. Fabricate new front frame horns, mounts and core support
5. Fabricate new rear IRS mounts and rear cargo area
By the time everything is done very little will be left of the old frame and of that it will be rewelded ground ect, and still look old. If you look at the work that has been done on Widowmaker by Tim to his frame you understand.

[exwestracer]

I'm confused... You said it's a sta-wag frame? SHould be boxed everywhere you're saving it....

[DaveJS]

Yes it is a wagon frame, only A Bodies only converts and Elkys get boxed frames. The roofs are designed to add rigidity to the structure, they do that portion, just leave a huge amount of flex. So what parts of the frame remain wind up getting welded ground boxed and still look old when done.

[exwestracer]

Ahh. I've had a couple Elks way back when, and I always thought the sta-wags used the same chassis.

[DaveJS]

It is the same in every way just not boxed. Finding a 64-67 boxed elky frame in decent shape is big money. Are you sure you don't have a need for a student to make one up? :D

[exwestracer]

It is the same in every way just not boxed. Finding a 64-67 boxed elky frame in decent shape is big money. Are you sure you don't have a need for a student to make one up? :D

Awww, that takes all the FUN out of it, Dave...

[DaveJS]

I still have a tick of metal work to do on it such as.
Full floor and floor braces,
Cargo Area floor and braces
Rear Sail panels
inner and outer wheelwells
Plus left and right quarters.
I have the new metal already and have fabbed up some of the sheet metal replacement parts. So I could easily skip the fun with frames portion and still have enough fun to go around.

[exwestracer]

I still have a tick of metal work to do on it such as.

Full floor and floor braces,
Cargo Area floor and braces
Rear Sail panels
inner and outer wheelwells
Plus left and right quarters.


I have the new metal already and have fabbed up some of the sheet metal replacement parts. So I could easily skip the fun with frames portion and still have enough fun to go around.

So you're building the body from scratch too?!? LOL.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree there are a lot of benefits to building the full frame, especially when you start modifying BOTH ends. I've also found, from being involved with 100s of these things over the years, that if you can just drop the body back on the stock mounts, it's a lot quicker and more likely to get back on the road. Sounds like you're into it far enough to just go for it.

[DaveJS]

I had most of the bolt on parts to just use the stock frame and was heading in that direction. Then somewhere along the line I wanted to run with some of the other folks on this board.