Project Hoopty a GN impersonator with a 488 Olds [Archive]

carguykeith

11-22-2011, 09:34 PM

Hi all, haven’t posted on here yet but figured I should give a little back for all of the information I have received from this site, so here goes.

I guess I’ll start with what isit, well it started life as a gray vinyl topped 81 Buick Regal limited with the all powerful 5.7L diesel and I actually drove it that way for a full year before I changed anything (read super poor sophomorein college).

By this point the motor was going through more coolant and oil than it was diesel so it HAD to go. Being the non-sensible car guy I am, I saved every penny I made that summer and rebuilt a basically stock Olds 455 and shoe horned it in. I know and Olds motor in a Buick is odd, but since the diesel block is Olds it was easiest to keep it that way and reuse all the accessories.

The next year was the suspension, but I was still doing it on the super cheap. So just one of those PST super rebuild kits with polygraphite bushings, drop spindles, some IROC springs (from the same car I got the wheels from) and a huge swaybay up front then, air bags, boxed control arms, a stock rear antisway and no-hop bars in the back. I also got this idea I could do body work, so I pulled off all the chrome, the half vinyl top patched the holes with bondo and rattle canned sandable primer gray the whole car. About time for a picture I guess:

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My last year in college I finally had enough cash to get it painted so I gave it the old college try by going through another couple of coats of spray bomb primer, adding a fiberglass cowl induction hood, changing out the front clip to an 86/87, then dropping it off at Maaco… It actually looked pretty good from about 10ft away for the first year or two.

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I of course destroyed the original TH350, but my uncle rebuilds trannys so I had him put together a TH475 (basically a 400 with a lower/ stronger first gear). Then I blew up the posi 2.73 7.5” I had pulled from a junk yard when I put the 455 in (the original rear was a peg leg 2.23). So I put in an 8.5” 10 bolt from a Grand National and added c-clip eliminators (losing one axle out the side of the car was MORE than enough for me). Lastly Ialso got tired of the IROC wheels and got some 17x8 centerline sabres with my first real paycheck, which were high style in 2001...

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carguykeith

11-22-2011, 10:01 PM

Ok I've tried two different computers and three different browsers and nothing will let me insert a picture in a reply. Am I missing something here? I have direct link for everything on imageshack I just can't get the popup window for inserting a picture....

muthstryker

11-23-2011, 05:56 AM

Cool car, as far as your picture links go. Just put the link in between these HTML tags... https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif That insert image popup window does the same thing.

BulldawgMusclecars

11-23-2011, 07:32 AM

Always good to see another G-body project on here, especially a Regal!

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 08:49 AM

Thanks for the welcome and assistance on images, tried to do an html tag but had the format wrong. Anyways back to the build.

This is where things slowed down for a bit, I met a girl, followed her up to Alaska, bought a house and got married. In those 5 years I drove the car all of about 4 times (one of those being up the AlCan highway) but the drive up took out a wheel and killed the power steering pump then once I got up here I no longer had a shop or any car buddies. So she got parked in the back yard and neglected…

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First I built a shop so I had somewhere to work that didn’t involve my or the wife’s car being out in the cold. This isn’t the place for shop buildups but the basics are 26x30 with a scissor trussed roof to allow for a lift, in floor heat, a 200amp breaker panel, hot/ cold water, a beer fridge and a urinal.

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Luckily I was able to convince the wife this was sweat equity and didn't need to come out of the car fund.

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 08:54 AM

While the shop was being built I started buying parts for and building the motor, since I could do that in the garage and continue to park both rigs in it. In retrospect I would have done things differently, but 5 years ago a turbo LS build was WAY too much money for me and big inch full roller motors where the best way to make power with street manners in my mind. Here are the specs of the now completed motor, I hope to have it dyno’d in the next month or so and will update when I do.

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Here is the long block all buttoned up.

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I went ahead and built a test stand to run the motor out of the car, totally worth the extra effort!

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Here’s the motor in the car and almost all of the accessories installed.

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And completely installed in the car.

Not sure if anyone is interested, but here are ALL of the details for the engine build:

488 CID Olds 455 with Rocket Racing heads, 10.25:1 comp ratio, full roller

Short Block:
• Stock F69 block, filled with hardblock to water-pump holes, clearance for stroke, machined for Torrington cam thrust bearing, enlarged oil drainback holes from heads. Decked squared 10.165, align honed with ARP studs and 5-main halo girdle installed, bored .30 over
• Factory forged crank, offset ground to 4.5” stroke. With .003/ .004 rods and main clearances
• BME aluminum BBC 6.815” rods, with .011 rod side clearance
• Custom Wiseco 24cc dish 560g pistons (.020 in the hole), std moly rings
• Rocket Racing blueprinted oil pump with bolt on 7/8” pickup
• Cloyes hex-adjust double roller timing chain set at 2 degrees advance to put cam at “straightup”
• Lunati mechanical roller cam 249/ 252 @0.50 .592 lift and 112 lobe separation, with roller thrust bolt
• BHJ SFI harmonic balancer (weight removed and entire rotating assembly internally balanced)
Long Block:
• Rocket Racing heads (fully assembled to match cam w/ springs, keepers, valves, retainers, guide plates and rocker studs)
• .028 Cometic layered head gasket
• ARP head bolts
• Harland Sharp 1.6 ratio roller rockers
• Smith Brothers pushrods (5/16 x .083 x 10.0, 4130 w/ 0.040 oil holes)
Exterior:
• 1150 Dominator (7320) changed to annular boosters, enlarged idle air bleeds, reduced idle jet size, jetted with 84’s and 91’s and 4.5 PV in primary only, 4 corner adj 1.25 screws out each
• Mallory Pro Comp 140 fuel pump/ 1407 (non-return) regulator
• 12 Gallon foam filled fuel cell, 8AN flexlite throughout fuel system
• NOS “big shot plate” and progressive controller (just wired and using as spacer, not plumbed)
• Rocket racing intake modified by RR for dominator, otherwise untouched except I added 4-corner cooling with 8AN flexlite hose
• Ebay special fabricated aluminum valve covers
• CSR Electric water pump and electrical fan with VSD controller
• Frank’s front plate with Alternator hole, modified to fit power steering pump
• MSD distributor (locked 32 degrees, bronze gear), variable timing adjuster, 8.5mm plug wires, 6-AL ignition and HVC coil
• RobbMc starter
• Braille no weight B14115 battery in trunk
• SFI 16.1 Balancer/ flexplate (weight removed, internally balanced)
• Moroso 7qt oil pan (modified to fit halo) w/ Lokar LS-1 oil dipstick modified to fit motor
• Accel u-groove plugs, P/N: ACC0516
• Peterson Oil filter, Setrab oil cooler (block tapped 3/4& 1/2NPT with all 12AN Starlite hoses)

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 09:00 AM

Sadly I actually had the motor completely done and running on an engine stand I built almost a year ago (actually the week after new years to be exact). Then running again in the car and even drove it a half dozen times this summer. But,as car projects go (at least for me) I just go it reassembled after a complete disassembly due to the cam thrusting into the block…

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Not what you want the magnetic plug to look like!

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The shiny spot is where the metal was coming from.

Luckily I noticed the metal in my oil before any real damage was done, so just a torrington thrust bearing for the cam, a quick cylinder hone/ crank polish some new bearings/ gaskets and I’m good to go again.

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Just need to put it back in the car and install the intake, valve covers and front plate.

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 09:12 AM

Now that I got the motor all done and ready, along with a shop to finally be able to work on the car I started by tearing everything apart!

The first thing I did was remove all signs of any “bodywork” from the previous paintjob as quickly as possible. Let’s just say neither MAACO or I did the car any favors… The paint could literally be rubbed off with a bare finger and it was only 7-ish years old. The good news is that I hadn’t done as much damage as I could have and a buddy that has done A LOT more body work than I have helped me get everything back together.

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So a bunch of hammer/ bondo/ sanding hours and a couple coats of primer later the body was finally ready for some real paint.

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carguykeith

11-23-2011, 09:16 AM

Notmuch on this video you can’t see by the pictures, but it’s a nice reminder forme just how tore apart she was:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJFkDTHD8ao

Oh that reminds me, I also decided I better put a role cage in the car since I knew I would be taking it to the ¼ mile and it better be faster than 11.50’s…. So the whole interior was gutted and the body was removed from the frame. Besides, now I can call it a frame off rebuild!
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I was really wishing I could have funded the 2 post lift for this part!
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In case you were wondering it’s not too hard to get the body OFF the frame, the hard part was getting it back ON and all squared up with the frame…

I know the role cage is much disputed on here but I put a lot of work into keeping it all out of the way and even made the door bars removable. I have a plan to keep the back seat actually usable for at least one person without killing whoever rides back there (think 4-point harness). I will say this though, between the 6-point cage and the poly body bushings the chassis REALLY tightened up.

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 09:47 AM

Then I figured if I’m going to do all of this I might as well redo the interior, so out the rest of the stock stuff went. Besides, this made it much easier to re-wire the whole car. Well that’s not true I did re-used the lights, wipers, and ignition switch from the factory harness…

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Next I painted all of the blue interior pieces black (that vinyl additive paint works very well, my buddy was very impressed and was kicking himself for passing on a couple of projects due to not liking the interior color.

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Prior to install:

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Dash assembly re-installed:

Sorry the pictures get a little overlapped here, but besides re-wiring and the 6-point cage using Chris Alston’s removable door bar kit I also made a custom gauge panel, dyed the seats, installed new carpet/ headliner, a B&M Mega shifter, a Recaro drivers & Procar passenger seat (got the Recaro on Craigs list with the plan to buy another one new, but they are really expensive) and finally Scott Rod Fab door panels to finish off the interior.

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Not the prettiest wiring job but I’m ok with it and I can access everything by just dropping the glove box out of the way.

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Before someone asks, I better explain the big light in the middle, it’s a shift light that comes on 300 RPM before the rev limiter kicks in.

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Here’s the cage all mocked up but not welded yet:

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The top of the rear spring cups make a good location for the rear down bars, just need to weld some plate to give a good flat surface.

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Trying to keep everything as out of the way as possible, this is where the front bars meet the frame right behind the body mount.

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Here she is all welded up with the interior pieces that had to stay in the car. Note the rear firewall riveted and fire caulked in place.

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Here are the door bars welded in.

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 09:52 AM

It was nice at this point I was startign to see teh light at the end of the tunnel, gettign the iterior all back together made me feel a lot better for some reason...

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The front dash back in one piece and all wired up.

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Here is the back seat all assembled, notice no seat belts at all right now as I didn’t want to mess with the third 4-point and no way anyone is riding back there with just a lap belt.

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Here is the front seats and doors all assembled, I really like the door panels and was surprised how much weight they removed. I'm guessing between removing the crash bars in the doors and stock door panels I took 20lbs out of each door!

CruizinKev

11-23-2011, 10:03 AM

cool car!! good to see another g-body here! looks great! :twothumbs

mert.celet

11-23-2011, 10:04 AM

Looks like You're living a dream. Nature, Fresh air, A Beautiful house and a 455 :)
Subscribed

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 10:14 AM

Ok so that takes care of the interior, but I really wasn’t ready to paint until I got it off of jackstands, so I ought to talk about the brakes and suspension upgrades. I had spent way too much putting the motor together and way too much time on the bodywork so this is definitely where I cut some corners. I know you guys don’t really approve on skimping here, but if I was ever going to drive this thing I needed to dial back the costs a little bit. Anyways, it’s still way better than it was last time and light years better than stock. First major change was the brakes, so with some Flynby brackets/ hubs and a couple of good eBay scores I upgraded to C5 equipment in the front.

New vs. Old:
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I went ahead and reused the too big 1 5/16 swaybar, the stock lower control arms with polygraphite bushings, the Moog 5662 springs and the drop spindles to save some cash. However I did upgrade to proforged upper/ lower balljoints, QA1 Stocker Star adjustable shocks, and Speedway 8” chromoly upper control arms to help with suspension geometry. While I was ordering from Speedway, I also bought an AFCO circle track steering gear, power steering pump and reservoir to finish it all off. I also picked up the weld on rear disk kit that uses my stock front calipers, but haven’t found the time to install them yet.

Oh I also changed out the brake master cylinder for an aluminum unit for a 91 Carpice and the steering intermediate shaft / ragjoint for a non-ragjoint unit from a jeep Cherokee.

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For the rear suspension, I also cut a couple of corners but do really like the stance and ANYTHING is better than the previous boxed/ poly bushed factory arms and no-hop bars! As it sits now I have Edelbrock Upper control Arms, stock lower control arms boxed with polygraphite bushings, QA1 stocker star shocks, F-body isolators (GM PN: 10290379) Moog 5959 springs w/ exactly one coil cut & HR parts-n-stuff weld in LCA braces and a Hellwig pro-touring anti-roll bar (PN 55809).
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I guess now would be a good time to talk about the tire/ wheel combination I’m running. I’m sure this won’t get much appreciation here but they are just off the shelf aftermarket BMW wheels. Beyern Rapp for a 5 series 18x8.5 with 5 3/8" BS front/ 18x9.5 with 5 3/4" BS. I did put some extra cash into the tires though, Nitto 245/40 NT01s in the front and 285/40 NT05R’s in the back. Right now I’m using some 1” bolt on hubcentric adapters in the rear but this winter I will be notching the frame so I can ditch the spacers.

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Here is what they look like on the car:

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 10:20 AM

Let’s see… That covers the motor, interior, suspension/ steering and the wheels/ tires right? I guess since I have the pictures I could show a couple of other details like the trunk holding the fuel cell/pump and the Braille battery:

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Then there is the mock up of the fiberglass bumpers and trim panels:

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Oh and the front and rear frame horn reinforcements, which also doubles as the replacements for the massively heavy factory bumpers. If someone is interested in the specifics it’s 3x3x1/4 Aluminum angle.

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Notice I couldn't resist the temptation to make sure the posi still worked…

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Some probably noticed the surroundings of the last picture so I probably should wrap this up with the paint job. The buddy that helped with all of the bodywork also painted his car in my shop last year, so we made the “paint booth” re-buildable and I kept everything for when “Hoopty” was finally ready. Basically it’s just a 2x4 frame with plastic sheeting stapled to it. Then a dozen furnace filters on one wall and a used forced air furnace blowing air out on the other wall. The paint is nothing special, after the Feathercoat primer I went with a layer of black epoxy sealer then a basic basecoat/ clearcoat all of the PPG Omni variety. The sad thing is I’m pretty sure the Maaco paint job almost the same cost that this paint job was and I bet this paint looks a lot better 7 years later!

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 10:25 AM

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First pulled into the booth, after wet sanding but before getting all trimmed out.

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Epoxy sealer done, I have to admit I seriously considered just leaving it like this but figured I could always hit the car with 400 grit and spray some flat clear later...

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Here it is after 2 base coats.

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And finally after both coats of clear

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This one shows the luster and the orange peel the best I think.

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Out of the booth and reassembled!

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Just a cell phone shot but you get the idea on the refleection...

I tell you what, it was tough taking sandpaper to brand new paint but it did make a big difference once it was all done. I’m a little too much of a chicken with the buffer so the paint doesn’t shine quite as much as I would like it to. Oh well I was never after a show car quality paintjob, just wanted a nice looking coat of paint. If I’m honest with myself; I would say critically looking I took it from a 20 footer to a solid 5 footer, which is good enough for me.

mc84_zz4

11-23-2011, 10:27 AM

Nice ride! I am jealous about the shop, heated floors make a HUGE difference.
Nice match to the house too.
:twothumbs:

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 10:34 AM

Of course as with any project on here, I’m definitely not done with the build… Besides the re-installation of the motor, I also have a bunch or work to do on the rear-end. I already have the weld-on metric rear disks, TA Performance cover, 3.73 gears, UMI Rotojoint lower control arms/ relocation brackets and reinforcement arms. Now I just need to order the Truetrac and 30 spline axles so I can install it all and do the rear frame notch…

Also I noticed the front didn’t settle as much as with the old motor (which makes sense with AL heads, rods, front bumper and front plate/ accessories). So I really need to cut off half a coil of the front springs to bring the front end down an inch or so.

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Anyways this is how it sits now ready for all of the above changes:

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Both of our rigs together.

Unfortunately I didn’t get a ¼ mile time that day which was the last test and tune of the seaason, the starter decided to quit working and with an auto trans that was the end of the day.

Here she is getting trailered home:
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Robb MC was great though, they took a look at the starter 2 years after I bought it and determined a bearing had unseated itself keeping the armature from fully engaging so they fixed it within 24hr of receiving it free of charge and even paid shipping.

Here is another video I shot, showing the car all put together, also happened to catch how easy the starter turns over the big motor with the distributer locked at 32 degrees of timing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_vm3LyrgYY

I also like the fact that this is almost exactly 6 months after this video is shot; Kind of puts it all in prospective I think.:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJFkDTHD8ao

In case anyone wants just the facts of the whole build, here is a list I put together like the one for the motor:

DRIVETRAIN

Exhaust:
• Kooks 2” primary G-body headers, ceramic coated.
• Summit 3” x-pipe and welded mufflers with dumps in front of the rear axle

Transmission:
• Turbo 475 with 2.48 1st, 1.48 2nd gear ratios
• 3,200 RPM Stall Coaan 10" converter
• B&M Mega shifter with neutral lockout and reverse wired into it
• 1350 u-joint output flange to 3” steel driveline

Rearend:
• Currently: 8.5” 10-bolt, stock 28-spline axles, posi, 3.08 gears, mark willliams c-clip eliminator.
• Purchased but not installed yet: 3.73 gears, , TA diff cover, 1350 pinion flange
• Planned: 30-spline axles (still researching best mfg/ $) Detroit tru-trac

STEERING/ SUSPENSION

Steering:
• AFCO racing power steering pump with remote reservoir and AFCO 12.7:1 gear.
• All new Moog steering components, Jeep Cherokee intermediate arm (no rag joint),
• Grant 15” Steering wheel

Front Suspension:
• Speedway motorsports 8” (left) chromoly upper control arms
• Power Performance Motorsports tall upper and lower ball joints
• Belltech 2” drop spindles
• Stock lower control arms with polygraphite bushings
• Alignment is: 3 degrees caster -.5 Camber and 1/8 toe in
• Moog 5662 (Iroc Camaro) springs
• QA1 Stocker Star 12-way single adjustable shocks
• Hellwig solid 1 5/16” antisway bar

Rear Suspension:
• Currently: Edelbrock adjustable upper’s, stock lower control arms boxed with polygraphite bushings, QA1 12-way adjustable shocks, F-body isolators (GM PN:) Moog 5959 springs w/ a coil cut & HR parts-n-stuff weld in LCA braces. Driveline loop and Hellwig pro-touring anti-roll bar (PN 55809)
• Purchased but not installed yet: lower arm relocation brackets along with UMI non-adj lower control arms with rotos and control arm reinforcement braces.

Brakes:
• Master cylinder replaced with 91 Caprice aluminum unit
• (when rear disks added)Distribution block removed t-fitting and proportioning valve installed in its place.
• Front: full C5 Corvette conversion, using flynby brackets& hubs and GM everything else.
• Rear: circle track weld on GM metric disk kit (going to install when rebuild rearend)
• Linelock to B&M shifter handle button

Tires/ Wheels:
• Front: 245/40 NT01s on Bayernn “Rapp” 18x8.5 ET15
• Rear: 285/40 NT05Rs on Bayernn “Rapp” 18x9.5 ET15 (1” hubcentric spacer until frame notch)

INTERIOR/ EXTERIOR

(Started life as an 81 regal limited with 5.7L diesel)

Interior:
• Competition engineering 6-point roll bar with bent rear bars through package tray and Chris Aston’s door bar kit for both doors.
• Camlock 4-point for passenger and 6-point for driver
• Recaro driver’s seat using modified (1"lower and further back) g-body seat sliders, passenger seat is Procar Sportsman on its sliders.
• Gutted dash, removed entire HVAC system, kept all lights and windshield wipers operational
• Added secondary fuse block, braile battery in trunk, custom gauge panel and HVAC/ radio panel.
• Painted interior black with vinyl additive paint, new black headliner and carpet, sealed trunk/ passenger wall/ package tray with .032 Alum sheet.
• Replaced doors with non electric doors, removed door crash bars and installed custom flat black aluminum door skins (by Scottrod Fab)
• Removed column shifter and installed B&M Megashifter between front seats

Exterior:
• Fiberglass front/ rear bumpers, bumper fillers and 2” cowl induction hood
• Gutted/ welded bumper shocks, added aluminum angle bracing at front and rear frame-horns
• Removed front inner fenders, all wheelwell trim pieces, rocker trim and vinyl top, filled all holes, blacked out all window trim.
• Installed 84-87 header panel, grill and aero mirrors, changed to black door handles/ locks
• All body bushings replaced with hyperflex poly kit
• Full body gloss black re-paint, including 2 coats primer, epoxy sealer, 2 coats base, and 3 coats clear

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 10:38 AM

Well that about wraps everythign up to date. I will update this once I actually have some time to work on the car again. I guess I should mention kid #2 showed up the 22nd of August, so I haven’t been spending much time out in the shop the last couple of months... He’s sleeping through the night now and the wife and I are starting to settle into a good schedule so hopefully it will be pretty soon.

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hessdawg

11-23-2011, 03:30 PM

nice ride
can you tell me how you modded the ls1 dipstick?
do you cave any pics of that ?
also where did you gey your oil fill tube and breather ??
thanks brad

carguykeith

11-23-2011, 04:28 PM

Mert, Bulldawg and Kevin thanks for the compliments.

Dave yes heated floors are the ONLY way to go, especially somewhere cold. I keep my shop at 50 and it's more comfortable to work in that some I've been in up here that were 70 degrees. The matching was the wife's call, but am glad I did as it turned out better than I would have guessed.

Brad, I got the idea from a writup on realoldspower.com but looks like it was lost in the last server crash so I'll paste in the instructions I saved from the post. HERE (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/518206/1978-oldsmobile-cutlass/page-6) is a link to the pictures that came with the writeup.

Ok guys, while I dont have pictures yet, I thought I would start a post telling you what it takes to put the Lokar LS1 Dipstick (PN ed-5008) into an Olds. I did the fitting on my SBO, but the dipstick that I am replacing had the stock marks on it still and I took these measurements for the stock guys.

The first thing you must do is flatten out one side of the lower aluminum nut at the bottom side of the dipstick tube. On my motor I had to sand off enough of the metal that the threads were just starting to show through on the top piece of the lower dipstick tube assembly (you will see what I mean when you have the piece in front of you). Curve the very bottom piece a smidge so it does not come in contact with the curvature of the block by where the dipstick will go through the block.

Now, onto the tube cutting. It takes two 11/16" wrenches to take the top of the dipstick tube apart. There are three pieces you need to be concerned with when taking this apart: the top piece (where the dipstick itself locks into), the mounting bracket (this part centers around the top piece) and the lower piece that the hose actually goes through and the top piece threads into. Once you take the top piece off, slide the lower threaded piece down the dipstick tube to the bottom. You should wear gloves when doing this so you don't poke holes in the end of your fingers like I did ( ). Sliding this piece down will make it much easier because you will not have to compress the braiding back through this piece). Comparing the Lokar dipstick to the stock Olds dipstick that I had in my car, I measured that you need to cut 2 1/4" to 2 3/8" for the "Full" mark on the dipstick to be pretty close. Use a high speed cutoff wheel, or wrap the tube with some masking tape (about 2 full wraps) and use a very fine tooth hacksaw with the hose held in your vise (Aeroquip's soft jaw vise inserts help ALOT).

After you make your cut, carefully slide the lower threaded section back to the top of the dipstick tube but DO NOT slide it completely off. I slid mine up until the hose was about 1/8" past the threads in the lower piece; then slid the mounting bracket back on and then the top piece. Once you have reassembled everything, compare the Lokar to the stock one again. All I did to verify this was to put the dipsticks in each of the tubes, lined up the ridge where the dipstick tube stops going further into the block and then looked at the "Add" and "Full" marks on the dipsticks.

I cut a little more off of mine (about 2 3/4") since I run 5 qts in the pan and that puts the oil level that much farther down in the pan. DO YOUR OWN MEASURMENTS to verify what I am telling you to do. I am only giving these as a guideline for you to get started. There is a little bit of adjustment that you can do if you do cut the piece too short, but be careful. Once I had the dipstick to the right length, I flipped the secondary bracket piece (bolts to the piece that goes inbetween the two top aluminum pieces) and then curved the dipstick forward to mount on my center header bolt.

I tried to explain everything as best I could since I don't have the pictures on this computer yet. Once you get the dipstick in your hands I doubt anyone with any mechanical ability would have a problem completing this.

WS6

11-24-2011, 07:23 AM

Great looking car and motor choice. At the time, did you know just how much of a monster you could have built that Olds DX engine into? Those are coveted blocks for serious Olds builds.

carguykeith

11-25-2011, 12:45 AM

WS6, thanks for the compliments.

As for the dx... Sadly no, this was 97 or maybe 98 when I swapped out the diesel and information on the internet for performance Olds was hard to come by. Mondello was selling a stroker kit but it was high $$ compared to just throwing in a stockish big block. Had I kept the dx block I probably would have built a turbo small block instead of this stroker big block but not many dx block here in Alaska and I stumbled across a BB with a forged crank so went with it.

WS6

11-25-2011, 02:34 PM

ah yeah, the internet has definitely changed things. Back then I had no clue about the DX blocks either. All the same, a 488 Olds is a hell of a choice.

hessdawg

11-25-2011, 04:59 PM

awesome write up on the ls1 dipstick

do you know where you got your strait oil fill tube ant the filter for it?

did you run pcv at the back of the intake?

carguykeith

11-25-2011, 09:10 PM

Oh oops I missed you had asked about the breather, I just used the stock one and cut it short with a hacksaw. Then topped it off with a K&N universal breather, I believe the ID is 1 1/2" so I used THIS ONE (http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=62-1450) but probably better double check.

You're right the PVC is coming out of the back of the intake to the passenger valve cover, I just used THIS BAFFLED GROMMET (http://www.amazon.com/Spectre-5333-Combination-Baffled-Grommets/dp/B00062ZIAE/ref=sr_1_7?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1322283367&sr=1-7) to keep the oil splash down.

SRD art

11-26-2011, 08:59 AM

Glad to see great progress after the dog house photo, lol! Keep it coming.

carguykeith

02-28-2012, 01:56 PM

Well not much of an update, but figure if I put something up here it would keep me motivated…

I finally got the front springs trimmed (took exactly 1/3 of a coil off of brand new moog 5662). I think it settled the front down about perfect. I would guess I have a total of 3 ½” of drop in the front now with 2” drop spindles, ½” taller lower ball joints and the roughly 3/4” from the coil cut.
The way I’ve always measured suspension change is by taking a length from the fender lip to the center of the hub (this takes out all differences due to tire/wheel sizes). If anyone has a “stock” height g-body and wants to measure, I’d love to know what I actually have… Using the above method, I come up with 13 ¼” by the way.

Next on the list was narrowing the frame rails for wider tires. I was really hoping to get this done while I had the body separated from the frame and all the extra room to work, but didn’t have the time if I was going to drive the car at last season and REALLY wanted to use a plasma cutter for it but didn’t have the budget for one at the time. I can say that I am glad that I waited for the plasma cutter, it made short work of the removal process for sure!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

There are a ton of write-ups from people much more talented than I am on how to do this so I am not going to go into a ton of details here, but I will say if you are going to reuse your existing frame rail to leave the bend and say ½” after attached and make it fit INSIDE the frame. I didn’t do that on my first side and it was a real challenge to get the plate and frame ground down to meet up and still have enough metal left no not worry about burn through when welding it back up. I didn’t think to get pictures of the second side until it was all done but Ben has some good ones on his buildup here:

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?80582-Pumkinator-A-G-Body-G-Machine-grocery-getter&p=885747#post885747

I was able to get mine line up and welded finally, but I would NOT recommend doing exactly like I did in these pictures.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

In the end I am extremely pleased with how it all came out and should be able to fully tuck 315’s once I wear out these 285’s. The second picture is from under the frame to give you an idea how much is left.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

There is some controversy on the net about the strength left in the structure after narrowing and some using as thick as ¼” plate instead of the original frame rail. In my mind though I could justify the added labor, weight or expense.

The only real load I can see on the frame rear of the control arm mounts are the rear springs and shocks that are about centerline of the narrowed section. In my case the rear downbars from my rollcage are welded directly on top of the spring cups, so that load should be well covered.

Now it’s onto the last thing I wanted to get done before this season, the rear axle. I was definitely in “just get it done” mode when it came to rear-end last year so I literally just unbolted the no-hop bars and stock boxed upper control arms and bolted on the edelbrock adjustables. Oh I guess I changed shocks and springs too, but left the actual rear housing and internals alone.

So time to get some stuff out of boxes and onto the car!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

A list of what all is in the picture above:

-Detroit 30-spline Truetrac
-New 3.73 Ring & Pinion
-Diff setup kit with Timkin bearings
-TA Performance rear cover/ Girdle
-Forged yoke sized for 1350 U-joint
-Lower control arm relocation brackets

Not in the picture but also already purchased and being installed with the above:

-UMI tubular lower control arms (poly on one side and Rotor-joint on the other)
-UMI rear control arm reinforcement braces
-And finally, in the mail right now is the last item, a set of the new Strange Engineering “circle track” 30-spline axles and C-clip eliminators

Oh and one more teaser picture, I guess I better do the brakes too while I’m back there…

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Pretty obvios but, here is another list:

-Wilwood GM III floating calipers
-3” BS steel hats
-11 ¾” by 1 ¼” thick vented rotors
-Weld on caliper mounting brackets

Kind of an odd setup to find on craigslist, but should work out pretty good with the budget C5 setup up front and it was only $250 for everything. No idea what I would do if I swap to a manual tranny and need a parking brake though…

My goal is to have all of this installed and the car running again in less than 3 weeks, so wish me luck.

looter

02-28-2012, 03:41 PM

I'm prepping to do the same frame notch on my a-body....any other words of wisdom before I tackle it?

BulldawgMusclecars

02-28-2012, 03:52 PM

Glad to see you back on it! I really like what you're doing with this car.

carguykeith

02-29-2012, 09:14 AM

Warren, the best advice I can give is look at as many exaples as you can find. I found a bunch of videos on youtube that were very informative. Also there should be a bunch of info on here, try "frame notch" as a search key both on here and youtube.

Joe, thanks! It's good to be out in the shop again, the first 6 months with baby #2 were just too busy...

Tony_SS

02-29-2012, 11:22 AM

Great job Keith.

As for the dogs on a car...that picture is priceless. lol

carguykeith

03-04-2012, 01:15 PM

Got my axles in from Strange Engineering and am VERY happy!

Here is a comparison between the old 28-spline c-clip axles with Mark Williams sealed roller bearing eiminators vs. the Strange "circle track" 30-splines with tapered eliminators with double seals.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/41211361585-1.jpg

Look at the difference in axle diameter at the bearing! That should help with any knock-back issues the floating calipers couldn't handle.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/41211361584-1.jpg

Cutls67

03-05-2012, 04:31 PM

carguykeith

03-06-2012, 04:05 PM

That is a sweet motor. I love the build. I have a couple of questions. I qm starting to collect parts for my own big block Olds motor. One who did your machine work, did you have the crank done locally or did you have one of the big Olds specialist do this? How does it run? Do you think the motor could be built with a little less compression and a different set of heads? I am going to be starting back on my 67 this summer and want a nice running motor to be ahead if a 400 thm and a gear vendors overdrive unit.

Stephan

Thanks for the compliments, I am very happy with the motor even if it was way more $ than I should have spent on it... I'll answer your questions in the order you asked:

-I did have the crank done locally, but only because I live in Alaska and shipping a crank and rods down to the lower 48 and back would have been bad expensive. In your case I would highly recomend having one of the Olds guys do it. Also, you should know that you will have to do some grinding on the block at the bottom of the cylinder walls (more if you go AL rods like I did).

-The motor runs amazing, I would like to think it makes a lot of power but I have no idea yet since it hasn't been down the track or on the dyno yet. I will say it'll brake loose 285 wide Nitto drag radials at 50mph on the highway...

-Sure you could run less compression (and should if you are running iron heads), not sure what kind of performace gains you would see from stroking with stock heads though. What kind of hp are you after and what's your budget?

Good luck with your build and feel free to ask more questions if you have any.

Cutls67

03-07-2012, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the reply. I don't plan on running iron heads. I plan on either Edelbrocks or the Pro-comps. I have my induction set-up using a dual quad intake. I just didn't want a custom manifold like I would have to with the heads you used. I am on a limited budget but I will spend on a parts since I can do almost all the labor myself. I was just wondering if I could run lower just to make sure if I need to I can run pump gas from anywhere. I plan to drive the crud out it when its done.

Stephan

carguykeith

03-07-2012, 11:00 PM

OKay that makes more sense, yeah the Rocket Racing heads do require a proprietary intake so a stock type AL head is your only option. It's my understanding the Edelbrocks have just recently been revised and would be a better choice out of the box than the Pro-comps (unless you can port you're own heads that is).

Man I wish I could have done more myself, I'm sure machine shops are more reasonable down there but I have over $1200 into just machine work and i did my own block clearancing, hardblock filling and motor assembly including cam degreeing...

One note on lowering the compression, you can't just drop the CR without building the motor around it. The dynamic CR is just as important as the static. Here is a good read on it if you are interested: http://cochise.uia.net/pkelley2/DynamicCR.html I built my motor around what I believe to be the worst premium gas in the country (90 octane) and with 8.5:1 Dynamic CR I have no pinging issues at all.

Oh and I'm with you, I plan on beating this motor within an inch of it life at every possible opportunity I can find!

carguykeith

04-04-2012, 09:56 PM

So I guess I should update again huh? So I do have a lot done but of course like all projects it's going MUCH slower than I expected...

Here is what I have done:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/41211362826-1.jpg

I got the tubes welded to the center section.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/41211362822-1.jpg

Then I welded up the UMI lower control arm relocation brackets, wire brushed the housing and preped the axle tubes for the new c-clip eliminators.

Which made it time for the Truetrac and ring & pinion... I turns out that this whole gear pattern thing is tough and I completely understand why people don't tackle this themselves... I Googled it and watched couple of Youtube videos, so I knew to make a set of setup bearings but missed that I needed to have the pinion pre-load just right. So I thought I had a good pattern and when I pressed on the real bearing it was too deep, so back to setup I went. In the end I did get a good pattern but I bet I have more than 20 attempts at it before I finally got there...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/41211362823-1.jpg

Then it was time to move on to the rear disk, man what a leaning curve this was! One of the best pieces of advise I found online was to get teh caliper where ou wanted it then add shop air pressure to lock down the caliper and set the caliper mounting bracket in the exact right location for welding. Of course like all "universal fit" things I had to do LOTS of modifications to make it work. The caliper mounting bracket is for 3" axle tubes but G-bodies are 2 5/8" so I had to weld in spacers to make the brackets fit the tubes. Then I realized teh standard 3" backspacing rotor hats were WAY too much and settled on some Wilwood 1.44" hats. This turned my awesome $250 rear disk brake deal into an ok $400 rear disk brake deal, but am still pretty happy with how it all came out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/41211362827-1.jpg

So all this left was a little paint and bolting everything together. Here it is with the welding done, the ring and pinion set, the tubular control arms and braces installed, and the rear disks all buttoned up. All that is left is some gear oil and making some new brake lines which the parts should be here tomorrow to finish.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/41211362824-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/41211362825-1.jpg

Hopefully I will have it all done and driving again in another week so that I can get the brake-in and maybe even a dyno session in before the snow all melts... Right now I've got about 18" in my yard right now.

rfalker1

04-05-2012, 02:50 AM

Nice Car and love the garage even more!!! looks so cool

instro84

04-28-2012, 07:15 PM

nice!

MonzaRacer

04-29-2012, 02:50 PM

OK just for you guys setting up your own rearends. Tip one, crank polish the pinion so the bearing can be knocked off by beating the pinion against a board. This way even if its hard coming off a little heat from heat gun or propan toruch wount trahs bearings but will let it slide off easily AND if your anal after getting your pinion depth right simply use sleeve locking compound but its entirely unneeded. Pinion bearings are retained once its all together and unless your running a top fueler or uber nitorused Pro Mod you will never have any issues. I have 800lb ft big block in super pro and super comp cars I have helped build diffs for done this way,,Zero issues. Heck it even helps on rock crawlers and 4 wheelers as they sometimes hurt parts and if its ready the old shim can be swapped to the new gears and generally hit pretty close to the mark. I figured this out working on 8.2 BOP rears long time ago when swapping ring and pinions between open center and the limited slip I yanked from a 66 GP.
Rear end is still together and last time I drove it still quiets and last time cover was off after about 200k miles the ring and pinion still look great.

TheBandit203

08-25-2012, 08:40 AM

Any Updates on this car I am into this thread

carguykeith

08-27-2012, 07:03 AM

Any Updates on this car I am into this thread

Yeah an update, I keep meaning to do that. Seams like getting anything done to the car has been sort of on slow motion with two kids and my wife and I both working full time again. Then I pulled a real bonehead move and signed up for a half ironman, you know becasue I had all this extra time on my hands...

carguykeith

08-27-2012, 07:16 AM

Anyways on to the update: let's see, after the rear disks were assembled I got the brake lines cut, flared and new braided lines installed. Before I bleed the brakes I went ahead and plumbed the proportioning valve and line locker.

63811

63812

So once I made sure there were no leaks and I had brake pressure to all 4 corners, I drove it nice and easy to bed the brakes and break in the rear gears. Actually got to drive to a car show/ cruise to the local drag strip where you only get one chance down the strip. She only ran a 13.2 but had a dismal 2.5 second 60ft time and just left the tranny in Drive, so I know she has a lot left in her.

I was just going to adjust the rear proportioning valve and it was off to the dyno. Then I ran into a small hiccup...

carguykeith

08-27-2012, 07:31 AM

The the one thing I really wasn’t a 100% happy with of course ended up being a major pain. So my “ok deal $400 rear disks are now completely gone after I had one of the weld on caliper brackets tear off of the axle! Could have been a lot worse though, the way it did it was while dialing in the proportioning valve so FULL pressure was being applied

1. The mount sheared causing the caliper to rotate about 270 degrees around the axle (where it stopped by smashing into the LCA mount).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

2. This pinched off the braded flex line so when I let go of the brakes upon hearing the loud thunk, one rear tire stayed locked and the other 3 went free!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The lucky part was that I had already slowed from 50ish down to maybe 15 when this happened and it was on a side road about 2 blocks from my house. Pretty sure had it happened on the freeway in a panic stop situation I would have been in the ditch at a minimum.

The failure was my fault but at least it wasn’t a bad weld, the metal literally tore off just above the weld from what I’ve always heard called carbonization though I’m sure that isn’t the actual term. Basically I had but too much heat into the steel while welding and made the steel just above the weld brittle.

Everybody loves carnage pics so here are some more:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

carguykeith

08-27-2012, 08:07 AM

Timing of this whole mess could have been better, a month prior we had decided to try and sell our out of town rental property and were in the middle of a 4 month vacancy at $2000/month out of pocket. We finally gave up (market is still to soft) and rented it back out so that freed up some cash to pick up what to my knowledge is the only bolt on rear disk option with c-clip eliminators.

Speedway Motors sells this kit: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-10-and-12-Bolt-Bolt-On-Rear-Disc-Brake-Kit,14015.html Oh yeah, I did upgrade to these: http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwood-GM-Iron-Metric-Caliper-2-Inch-Piston,24242.html Wilwood 2” piston calipers instead of the stock metrics to help balance out the C5 fronts a little better.

Of course in my case “bolt-on” still required a plasma cutter, welder, and a 2lb hammer but I’m still pretty happy with the kit overall. Really to be fair the only reason it took all of the extra work is how Strange Engineering builds their c-clip eliminators/ They require the 4-bolts be threaded in from the rear instead of from the front face and the added length of the bolts were just enough that the shock/ lower control arm mounts interfered.

Anyways here they are all bolted up and plumbed with new braided lines.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/New2520rear2520disks-1.jpg

And here is a side-by-side of new vs. old:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/08/New2520rear2520disks-2.jpg https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Good news is that the new rear disks are MUCH more appropriately sized and still have plenty of clamping force to lock them up. Now I just need to make another trip to the strip, hopefully I can get I last chance before they shut the track down for the season. I guess worst case is I can try out the 1/4 mile function of the new Speedhut GPS speedometer (awesome customer service and great product btw), it was going to be $100 to get the damn TH400 re-geared to match the 3.73’s and this is much more "future changes" proof...

I never did get the car to the dyno, hopefully here in the next month or so I can get that done.

TheBandit203

09-01-2012, 05:55 AM

Wow that sucked but your right it could have been worse! Good thing nobody got hurt during testing.

66larkgs

09-01-2012, 05:39 PM

I have seen the caliper go right thru the wheel. You got lucky! I run the c5 rear and like them

NOT A TA

09-02-2012, 05:19 AM

Cool car and a great write up!

carguykeith

09-03-2012, 08:23 PM

Thanks for the comments and compliment, yeah it definitely could have been worse that's for sure.

I guess I should update here too, I finally threw in the towel on running this dominator myself, I had done what I thought was the hard part and got idle, tip-in, and cruise dialed in but of all things WOT was my sticking point. On a dominator... Anyways it's being shipped off to shaker455 and I can't wait to see the difference between tunes!

TheBandit203

09-29-2012, 11:57 AM

Is your gauge setup with mech or electric gauges? And was it hard to install?

carguykeith

10-02-2012, 01:38 PM

Originally the speedo was mechanical but I replaced it with a Speedhut GPS unit, so all electic now. It was actually fairly time consuming to put together, between cutting up the original dash/ witing and making the new panel. Totally worth it though, the stock gauge cluster in the regal was junk.

carguykeith

12-17-2012, 05:39 PM

I posted this in general discussion too but thought I should update here too:

So no project car is ever "done" but lets just say mine was pretty close (see signature for build thread) and anything more would have been a pretty major overhaul, with a new motor, trans, sups, brakes etc.

Now the dilemma, I just accepted a 2-5 year job in Japan and the car can't go... Chances are we will be staying the whole 5 years so I have to plan for that, which means I can't just change fluids and throw a car cover over her or really anything even remotely close to that.

My best two options as I see them are as follows:

1. Sell off everything that can't make the extended storage, i.e. Motor, trans, tires. Then seal the passenger compartment up good so no bugs or critters can get it, buy a NICE car cover and put it in long term outdoor storage .

2. Ship it down to seattle where I have a friend and/or relative park it in their backyard, start it up, and drive it for an hour every 3-4 months until I get back.

The hardest part of all this is the location, being in Alaska there isn't exactly a huge market for 600hp Olds turnkey motors or even Nitto racing tires for that matter... The TH475 with a high stall converter should be easy enough to sell but doesn't do me any good if I can't sell the rest. Then what do I do when I get back? Or conversely, if I ship it down to seattle I'm looking at a set of tires and valve springs at the very least but really to me the motor and trans should get a tear down even with some occasional driving.

So what do you all think? Anyone else had to store a car for multiple years? We thought about renting our house and using the shop as a warm storage but decided against it and are going to sell the place so any storage option is going to be outside unfortunately.

SRD art

12-17-2012, 06:50 PM

I stored my Nova outside in south Florida for 2 years, and it didn't run at all for that time. When I got back the front drum brakes were rusted stuck, some neighborhood kid shot out the headlights with a BB gun, the body was rusty, and about a cup of rusty water came out of #5 cylinder when I cranked it over without plugs. Took a couple days of work but I got it running and driving. Then I went out and ran 11's. I guess my point is why not just store it? Inside would be a bonus. Make sure there's good coolant in it or just drain it down to avoid freezing. Put that high mileage oil in it, IIRC it has an additive to keep seals pliable. Throw some Stabil in the almost out of gas tank and park it with jack stands under the suspension. Cover the tires for extra protection, and make sure it's not near electrical devices to avoid dry cracking in the tires. That's what I would do.

When you get back check all hoses and rubber parts for brittleness or cracking. If you can, prime the oil system before initial start up, put the distributor back in and drive it. I almost sold my Nova before I moved for those 2 years, but when I came back home I was glad the car was still there for me.

And by all means, good luck in Japan! What a cool opportunity.