Engine Option Advice

[piratebaseball]

Need advice on my engine combination.
1967 Camaro, TKO 600, Moser 12 bolt 3.73 gears, ridetech coilover suspension
The car is going to be a street car with occassional track days. Must be able to run on 93 octane full time. With that being said, the engine can not be an LS engine. It has to be a SBC or a BBC. It also has to have aluminum heads and intake. I also prefer a roller hydraulic cam if possible. The goal is 600 horsepower. Given these specs, what is the cheapest option? Thanks!

[Rod]

cheap and power don't go together and when you do real reliability will suffer

[piratebaseball]

I don't want reliability to suffer. I want the bottom end to be forged. But I also know that in some situations you can spend 15k to have 600 hp and in others you can spend 7k to have 600 hp. Just trying to tap the knowledge of the forum for proven dyno combos that can get me to my goal on a budget.

[anthonys 69]

To make 600 hp you’ll need displacement bbc or power adder super/ turbo charger. When Rod says reliability he doesn’t mean throwing piston threw the block every 5 minuets he mean an engine that will start every time in cold or hot whether and not over heat at light. He means dependable. You’d have better luck with 500hp

[Flash68]

600 hp is actually very easy to accomplish with a 454 or better yet a 496. A Scat or Eagle stroker kit for a 454 block is pretty cheap, some decent heads and simple intake and carb, and you're there. And don't need a gnarly cam to do it. A decent sized hyd roller will get you there. Go for it.

[piratebaseball]

The 1996-1999 vortec 454 engines are looking promising. They have a one piece rear main seal, 4 bolt mains, and are roller hydraulic ready. Does anybody know how much power the rotating assembly will hold in those? Such if I took a short block and rebuilt it with forged pistons, then added AFR heads, a roller hydraulic cam, intake, and carb on top? Don't want to break the bank of the bottom end. Thanks!

[DaveJS]

More cubes make for easier power, if you do plan to do it with a SBC look at an aftermarket block and crank. Making 600 Hp with a stock block may stress things a bit IMHO.

[Taylor1969]

I know that you said no LS engines... but why? I just did an LS2 swap and will never go back to SBC again.

You can pick up an LS Series, throw in a cam and LS3 top end and you are knocking on the door of 550HP. You will also get no leaks, 100K+ out of the engine and better efficiency.

Look at it this way -

$3500 LS2 used (from DaytonaYellaz or wrecker)
$1200 LS3 Heads + Edelbrock Carb Intake/Controller
$700 Cam Swap


500+ reliable HP. You can go cheaper if you go Iron 6.0...

Now add better flowing heads, EFI and a good tune and you are looking at even more all with the LS reliability.

[piratebaseball]

Ok, talk me into doing a LS motor. Budget is 6500 dollars. This needs to include engine, accessories, computer, wiring, cooling, fuel, et cetera. I have a tko600 trans set up to run with a bbc or sbc engine. So what do I have to do to convert it over? For accessories, I am running power steering, power brakes, and a/c via a vintage air compressor. What accessories do I need to get to make the brackets work. I'd love to have a LS engine in my car but I'm not sure of the parts that I'd need and I'm scared of the price to convert. Not necessarily scared of the price of an LS engine, but the cost to convert everything else. I also have a be cool aluminum radiator for a bbc so I'm sure I can use that as well. I'm all ears...or I guess eyes since its a forum

[piratebaseball]

oh yea, it needs to make atleast 550 hp and put me in the low 11's. Carb or efi is ok

[Flash68]

The LS vs Gen 1 SBC comparison needs to take into consideration if you have accessories and corresponding parts already. I like my Gen 1 SBC and I like the LS motors, but it ain't just about the cost of building a damn LS... it's about the radiator, headers, accessories, fuel system, etc etc etc for me.... if you have nothing yet and are starting from scratch an LS may be a good road to take. If you already have the older stuff, it's a lot more costly to convert than just comparing the engines.

[piratebaseball]

I completely agree. That is what is scaring me off from the LS build. Basically all I have is a tko 600 trans with bellhousing, flywheel, clutch for a sbc/bbc engine and I have a bbc radiator. Everything else is going to have to be bought. With that being said, if I can put an LS engine in my car and get it running for $6500 and make 550 hp I'm good and I'd love to do it. I know I can do that with a SBC. I know LS engines are dyno kings, but I'm not sold on the down the track aspect. I've seen quite a few 550 hp sbc go low 11's lately with the 550 hp ls engines going low 12's. If anybody has information or track numbers to prove me wrong please do. I'm not bashing LS or sbc/bbc, just trying to make an informed decision on an engine option for a car that I have spent 4 years building and that I'll never get rid of. SBC/BBC's I've build and know...LS conversions I'm learning...

[dontlifttoshift]

I've seen quite a few 550 hp sbc go low 11's lately with the 550 hp ls engines going low 12's. If anybody has information or track numbers to prove me wrong please do. ...

Wait....What? Nevermind

Your $10 per horsepower number is the issue, especially if all you have is a trans and a radiator. Maybe I took it too literally, but you need another 1 to 2,000 dollars worth of parts after your engine, dependent on how complete your engine is. Headers, carb, plug wires, distributor, air cleaner, brackets, oil, hoses, belts, water pump, .....

[6D9 Matt]

I have a 69 Camaro with a GM crate 350 and just installed a T56 Magnum. I am also deciding whether to go BBC or LS3... So kinda in the same boat. Looking to spend $7-8k turnkey (hopefully).

[piratebaseball]

Yeah, I know I have another 1500 to 2k in stuff to get the engine running once I get it built. My simple question is, if I went LS, how do I use the parts that I already have and keep the cost down doing an LS Conversion. I've found an LS3 long block for 3k, but I know that there is a ton of electronics and other things for the LS swap that is going to cost.

[dontlifttoshift]

That's really up to you. How long is a piece of string?

For the trans you will just need a flywheel that matches your clutch and you should be good to go. The radiator will work with some creative plumbing or worst case cut the ends off and weld new ones on. Everything else the skys the limit. A gm serpentine setup is 8 or 900 for an ls. A vintage air front runner is 2,500. Same with the elcetronics. A setup from speartech is in the 1,200 range but if you want mods you will have to get the ecm tuned at a dyno shop. If you spend nearly 3,000 you can get a cam, springs, ecm, and harness from mast motorsports that is already tuned and ready to rock on a stock ls3 (with their cam) and make 550 horsepower.

I'm not good at budgets. I usually do what i want, within reason. If one particular item is too expensive I work around it. There is no doubt in my mind that an LS3 with a cam would meet your power numbers and long term be more reliable, efficient, and cost near the same dollars.

Donny

[12sec ss]

I completely agree. That is what is scaring me off from the LS build. Basically all I have is a tko 600 trans with bellhousing, flywheel, clutch for a sbc/bbc engine and I have a bbc radiator. Everything else is going to have to be bought. With that being said, if I can put an LS engine in my car and get it running for $6500 and make 550 hp I'm good and I'd love to do it. I know I can do that with a SBC. I know LS engines are dyno kings, but I'm not sold on the down the track aspect. I've seen quite a few 550 hp sbc go low 11's lately with the 550 hp ls engines going low 12's. If anybody has information or track numbers to prove me wrong please do. I'm not bashing LS or sbc/bbc, just trying to make an informed decision on an engine option for a car that I have spent 4 years building and that I'll never get rid of. SBC/BBC's I've build and know...LS conversions I'm learning...

My LS3 made 467RWHP on a Mustang Dyno, and I've run a best of 11.0 so far with race weight of 3650 lbs.

[garys 68]

You might consider a used 6.0 truck iron block LQ4 or LQ9 motor with a carb. 500 hp with headers and cam alone is pretty easy and can be done for under $3k.
As for the trans, check out this link:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1472584-mating-sbc-bbc-trans-t10-muncie-richmond-tko-ls-motor.html