Rear Suspensions for 78-81 Camaro

[badazz81z28]

Hard decicion! Hotchkis seems to be dragging the feet a little. I'm not going to wait until summer to buy their system. Has anyone used others such as Chris Alstons?? Also considering BMR's watts link.

Thanks, Rob

[brownz]

I just got the Ride tech four link, I have heard good things about it but have not yet used it myself, and its going on my 79 camaro

[ProdigyCustoms]

The Chris Alston is still not ready with no firm date in sight. It will be done when it gets done is the official word.

The Ride Tech stuff works really well. One of the fastest Ride Tech cars was their second gen, worked really good.

The DSE Qualdrlink is awesome also, just a little more fab work to install.

Have not drove a BMR set up yet, so I have no opinion.

[badazz81z28]

I just got the Ride tech four link, I have heard good things about it but have not yet used it myself, and its going on my 79 camaro


Doesnt look like much parts for the Ride Tech version. Did you get the $1300 set-up?

As for Chris Alston, This one is not available?

http://cachassisworks.com/p-1448-camaro-78-81-firebird-78-81-f-body-billet-g-link-pivot-coil-over-suspension.aspx

[ProdigyCustoms]

The $1300 Ridetech Set up is for the bar kit and does not include the shocks. Shocks and springs start at $550 for non adjustable> We sell 90% of our kits with the single adjustable 26 way shocks, a great bargain for only $100 more

The Chris Alston kit you link to is not shipping yet. We have been waiting a long time for. it will be a nice set up when they finish it but as I said, Officially it will be done when it gets done.

[badazz81z28]

This is looking like the direction I wanna go http://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&productid=537

[SLO_Z28]

I would look at what you can accomplish with a properly set up leaf spring suspension. For $2000+ dollars what do you really gain? You'd get WAY better results putting the same money into a floating rear axle, as the static negative camber will increase rear tire footprint during turns.

Before you spend any money on upgrades think about the car as a system, have a clear ultimate goal, then figure out how said part fits into the big picture of getting you to that goal. Look into what the geometry improvement really is.

Specifically I would look at the geometry of any 4 link bolt in system on the market, and what a correct 4 link geometry would look like, and what they have.

[badazz81z28]

I want a modern rear suspension to improve handling and cornering.

[srh3trinity]

I think that you can achieve pretty good handling with leafs. Mary Pozzi proved that, she was extremely fast on leafs. From what I understand, you gain adjustability and ride comfort with the newer setups.

[badazz81z28]

I think that you can achieve pretty good handling with leafs. Mary Pozzi proved that, she was extremely fast on leafs. From what I understand, you gain adjustability and ride comfort with the newer setups.

Comfort is part of why I want a modern set-up. I agree the Mary Pozzi car ran well with leafs, but she doesnt run leafs anymore....That must say something. She joined the crowd with LS motors, coil over suspension etc...

[David Pozzi]

I think that you can achieve pretty good handling with leafs. Mary Pozzi proved that, she was extremely fast on leafs. From what I understand, you gain adjustability and ride comfort with the newer setups.

Thats pretty much it. Good leaf springs can deliver great performance for autocross or track. Going to a 3 or 4 link reduces unsprung weight which is felt most on the street, but but most tracks have rough sections that the rear will now go over with less upset. There is a more stable feel to the rear end with less reaction to bumps. Plus it's way more comfortable on the street now.

We had an opportunity to have some input into the Hotchkis 3 link design & we wanted to have a lot of adjustability. The ability to change spring rate, corner weight balance, anti-squat, roll center height, rear bar rate, & roll-steer should enable us to get more out of the car as we experiment with it. Offsetting the top link to the passenger side avoids any driveshaft clearance issues & there is no intrusion into the trunk at all.

If you will be Mini-Tubbing the car there is some expense in moving the leaf springs inward that might be better spent converting to a 3, or 4 link, or torque arm.
David

[David Pozzi]

The downside to all the added adjustments is, there are a whole lot more "wrong" settings available now!

[Rod]

run some cat 5 leafs, a helwig rear adjustable sway bar, toss in a pair of adjustable shocks(QA1, ride tech, ETC) 200 treadware tire, and learn to tune from there, win some races and next year after your driving is so good your winning every were you go, maybe then everyone will have figured out their 2,3,4,5, and 6 links

[ProdigyCustoms]

Leafs can handle great, it is the ride that sucks. To make a leaf lower a car you have to do 2 things, flatten the spring and make it firmer, but taking away ride at the same time. And as the suspension professor Mr Pozzi mentioned, there is nothing quite like upsetting a rigid set up at high speed! Ever ride a Go Kart? Handles great, rides like ****!

I also agree with David on the adjust ability factor. 90% of users DO NOT need adjust ability and should not have any adjust ability. Let the suspension manufacturer work out the best settings and run with it. the Ride Tech set up has great all around setting taking comfort, ride, handling and anti squat. the Ride Tech 4 link provides the most forward bite of any 4 link I have used which helps with stop light wars. I have zero number on the BMR set up but know from experience in general torque arm, handling and forward bit do not go together.

I know Speedtech is working hard at finishing their 2nd gen torque arm set up and I know thet will use the best blend of forward bite and handling with their set up as they have proved their stuff works on the track

[SLO_Z28]

For a 4 link to be properly set up in a second gen, the links need to be in no mans land. No bolt in 4 link system is a upgrade over a proper leaf spring suspension in a second gen camaro. Like David Pozzi said you can gain a lot with a proper 3 link, chief of which is compliance. You said on chat you already have the hotchkis TVS kit, you're not going to out drive that kit for some time. Money would be better spent on driving lessons and better wheels/tires.

[Skip Fix]

"The downside to all the added adjustments is, there are a whole lot more "wrong" settings available now! "

Kind of like a carb with adjustable air bleeds and emulsion holes!

[badazz81z28]

Yes I do have the complete Hotchkis suspension. I can I can tear it up for a little while and see how it goes.

[coolwelder62]

I have used the Ride Tech 4-bar in the last 3 cars I have built.Install's very quickly.Great customer service.Super smooth ride when you use there Ride tech coil over's and rubber bushed end's.They offer a Rear sway bar also.Good Luck Scott M.(Ride Tech Dealer)

[David Pozzi]

"The downside to all the added adjustments is, there are a whole lot more "wrong" settings available now! "

Kind of like a carb with adjustable air bleeds and emulsion holes!
Yes, I had Webber carbs in mind when I posted that.

[mpozzi]

Yes I do have the complete Hotchkis suspension. I can I can tear it up for a little while and see how it goes.

Spend some time learning the TVS before you jump into the world of "OMG!!! All these links and adjustment options ... what do I do to get better traction, cornering, and every other handling query?" Let us (Dave and I) help you with this research for now as its not as easy as it appears on paper. That instruction manual is more than just bolting with a bit of welding of parts as you'll have to know a bit about suspensions in general, instant center, roll center, anti-squat, lateral and longitudinal weight transfer, and shock adjustments ... and more.

You'll have to know what to adjust when the car is handling (or not handling) a certain way. The fact that Hotchkis isn't releasing this system when they originally targeted it for speaks volumes about them wanting to get it right for the customer. The parts are solid and after several autocrosses and track days, have proven themselves to be "Mary Proof."

Mary Pozzi

[bimmen325]

The thing is people like myself suffer from shiny syndrome, we hear of something new and instantly want it. I from experience can claim to have fouled the ride quality of a few cars. What I thought would be great turned out to be to rough and very unforgiving on the street, it made me almost dread driving them.
I just want a good street set-up with the occasional twisty road, just for the times you meet a few curves on the road and let your foot down a little.
If the TVS works with very little complexity then that my be all I need, even though it is hard to resist all those more " modern" set-ups.

[Skip Fix]

"You'll have to know what to adjust when the car is handling (or not handling) a certain way."

Ah the trick to most things! I chased what I thought was a carb bog forever on my car at the strip, was still there after different carbs. Finally tightened up the front shocks and it was gone!

That why for me I try and keep it simple:) Start getting too many variables to change and adjust and you get things worse-kind of like those carbs you have to go back to staock settings and start again.

[BMR Sales]

Have not drove a BMR set up yet, so I have no opinion.

Frank, we need to talk at PRI to change that issue for sure!:twothumbs


Rob,

Take a few minutes to look over the information I sent to you earlier. Our torque arm gives you the best of both worlds, lateral stability for acceleration traction and centered suspension articulation for bind-free handling. The torque arm is great for street, drag racing, or road racing without compromising any application. We offer kits for the customers GM 10 & 12 bolt or we have a kit including a Ford 9" rear ends housing. All kits are 100% bolt-in with no welding or fabrication required.

Our Torque Arm Kits eliminates the rear leaf springs, replacing them with a custom upper cross-member, adjustable control arms and adjustable coil-over shocks (SOLD SEPARATELY). Multiple spring rates are available.

It would have been easy to use a Panhard rod for this application but there is nothing better than a Watts link for precise side-to-side axle positioning. Our Watts link pivot is machined from 6061 billet aluminum and utilizes greasable, internally fluted Delrin bushings for a long, trouble-free life. Additionally it is supported in a double-shear fashion unlike other options in the market. The Watts link also allows for rear roll center adjustment giving you more options concerning body roll/grip.

Every component in the torque arm conversion kit is adjustable. The torque arm itself provides pinion adjustability. Control arms are adjustable in length and have multiple mounting holes plotted in an arc to provide adjustment for anti-squat characteristics. Coil-over shocks provide both compression and rebound adjustability as well as spring adjustability. Additionally, the shock/spring combos have multiple mounting holes to allow a wide range of ride heights. The Watts link pivot as well as the links themselves have multiple height mounting positions for changing rear CG location.

A key advantage to our kit is it's ease of installation..... take a look at a post here with PT member feedback:

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?84115-BMR-rear-suspension-setup-for-78-TA&highlight=bmr

Here is a recent install article in Super Chevy as well:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/chassis/suspension_steering/sucp_1111_bmr_rear_suspension_install_strong_arm/index.html

[Hotchkis]

Thank you to everyone who has inquired about our new rear suspension system for 2nd Generation GM F-Bodies. After nearly two years of R&D and a year of Beta testing, we’re confident that this system not only delivers outstanding performance and adjustability, it also delivers tremendous value. We are ramping up production now, and like all Hotchkis (http://www.hotchkis.net) products the system is made right here in the USA out of the best domestically sourced materials. This is the same system that you’ve seen on Mary’s car at the SEMA Show and the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational, and on Deanna Marengo’s car that’s on the current cover of Super Chevy Magazine.

The new Hotchkis 3-Link kit with single adjustable coil overs carries an MSRP of $3764.95. We’ll also make a kit available without coil overs for those that wish to supply their own. A Rear sway bar will be optional and available separately (prices to come shortly). Product will start shipping early in the first quarter of 2012, and those who wish to get on the pre-order list can contact [email protected]

As for the 1st Gen system, it is currently in R&D but is still several months out, so at this time we are only taking pre-orders on the 2nd Gen System. Thanks to everyone who has shown so much patience and support while we developed this system, we feel that it will be a real game changer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[SLO_Z28]

Thanks for the info! :)

[badazz81z28]

Hotchkis,

Thank you for the update! I'm a little surprised by the MSRP though....I was hoping it would be in the $2K range to compete with DSE...What brand of coils are you using? $3700 sounds like a winner if it came with the rear sway bar kit.

May I ask, is there an intro price or a special price for members?

[BMR Sales]

Robby,


FYI...... this weekend you can save $115 on our Torque Arm set up and another $117 off the ground shipping to your area......

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?84857-BMR-Thanksgiving-Sale-15-OFF-most-BMR-Suspension-products

[Hotchkis]

For the Thanksgiving holiday we ran a sale on all products made by Hotchkis through our Hotchkis.net online store. Save 20% off retail prices.


Just in case you were out of town for the Holiday, we're extending the Thanksgiving sale to include Cyber Monday! So the same great deals are running through the end of the day today, Monday 11-28-2011!

When placing the order on Hotchkis.net (http://www.hotchkis.net/), you must enter the sale code: Turkey

Have a great Holiday Season!

[Hotchkis]

Hotchkis,

Thank you for the update! I'm a little surprised by the MSRP though....I was hoping it would be in the $2K range to compete with DSE...What brand of coils are you using? $3700 sounds like a winner if it came with the rear sway bar kit.


We appreciate everyones interest and value the input. The Hotchkis 3-Link system has proven itself and JUST WON the GG Del Mar autocross on Sunday, as well as the recent Super Chevy suspension shootout and 5th place overall at OUSCI 2011. As for the DSE price, yes its about a grand cheaper, but installation requires quite a bit more cutting/welding/fabrication. For a home builder, the effort to install doesn’t make much difference...except for the hours burned. For someone having a shop install the kit, the price difference becomes nill as our kit installs much quicker.

[badazz81z28]

The Chris Alston is still not ready with no firm date in sight. It will be done when it gets done is the official word.

The Ride Tech stuff works really well. One of the fastest Ride Tech cars was their second gen, worked really good.

The DSE Qualdrlink is awesome also, just a little more fab work to install.

Have not drove a BMR set up yet, so I have no opinion.


FWIW, I got a hold of them yesterday, This Chris Alston's kit for the 78-81 Camaro is available. You got bad info.

[badazz81z28]

We appreciate everyones interest and value the input. The Hotchkis 3-Link system has proven itself and JUST WON the GG Del Mar autocross on Sunday, as well as the recent Super Chevy suspension shootout and 5th place overall at OUSCI 2011. As for the DSE price, yes its about a grand cheaper, but installation requires quite a bit more cutting/welding/fabrication. For a home builder, the effort to install doesn’t make much difference...except for the hours burned. For someone having a shop install the kit, the price difference becomes nill as our kit installs much quicker.

Hotchkis, Will Summit Racing be offering this kit in March as well? I need to use my speed card if I pick it up lol...

[Hotchkis]

Hotchkis, Will Summit Racing be offering this kit in March as well? I need to use my speed card if I pick it up lol...

Badazz81Z28 – We’re sure Summit will continue offering all Hotchkis products, including our 3-Link (PN:1824 (http://www.hotchkis.net/19701981-camaro-firebird-3link-rear-suspension-coming-soon.html)) as soon as we’re ready to box up the first kit and ship it out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Rod]

are the coil overs adjustable compression and rebound, and I don't see a sway bar in the kit?

[MrQuick]

Thank you to everyone who has inquired about our new rear suspension system for 2nd Generation GM F-Bodies. After nearly two years of R&D and a year of Beta testing, we’re confident that this system not only delivers outstanding performance and adjustability, it also delivers tremendous value. We are ramping up production now, and like all Hotchkis (http://www.hotchkis.net) products the system is made right here in the USA out of the best domestically sourced materials. This is the same system that you’ve seen on Mary’s car at the SEMA Show and the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational, and on Deanna Marengo’s car that’s on the current cover of Super Chevy Magazine.

The new Hotchkis 3-Link kit with single adjustable coil overs carries an MSRP of $3764.95. We’ll also make a kit available without coil overs for those that wish to supply their own. A Rear sway bar will be optional and available separately (prices to come shortly). Product will start shipping early in the first quarter of 2012, and those who wish to get on the pre-order list can contact [email protected]

As for the 1st Gen system, it is currently in R&D but is still several months out, so at this time we are only taking pre-orders on the 2nd Gen System. Thanks to everyone who has shown so much patience and support while we developed this system, we feel that it will be a real game changer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif in red rod

[badazz81z28]

Will the Sway bar for this suspension still be the 2236R? I want to go ahead and buy the bar now for X-mas.

[badazz81z28]

Updates?

[solarguy09]

Great thread..

My Car is about done having Hotchkis Sway Bars,Subframe connectors,and Hotchkis Rear Leafs..,with QA-1 Shocks installed.

In front is the Speed tech Coil overs, Hotchkis Bar, and Steering ends, and a new power steering set up...

I will let you know how it rides and handles soon.

I like the idea of the three link,but i need to re learn my car and my Abilities first..

For now, i am out of Z/28 money.

[Hotchkis]

Great thread..

My Car is about done having Hotchkis Sway Bars,Subframe connectors,and Hotchkis Rear Leafs..,with QA-1 Shocks installed.

In front is the Speed tech Coil overs, Hotchkis Bar, and Steering ends, and a new power steering set up...

I will let you know how it rides and handles soon.

I like the idea of the three link,but i need to re learn my car and my Abilities first..

For now, i am out of Z/28 money.


Solarguy09 – Your car is coming along great! We definitely understand sticking with what you have now and enjoying the car for a while especially when you’re out of Z/28 money. Looks like you need to save your cash for gas so you can drive it.

[solarguy09]

Solarguy09 – Your car is coming along great! We definitely understand sticking with what you have now and enjoying the car for a while especially when you’re out of Z/28 money. Looks like you need to save your cash for gas so you can drive it.

Yes. Just having all the new technology on my Car, will blow me away.

And being an old guy but new to the Track, I don't need all the adjustments yet.

The new Hotchkis Bars, and Subframe Connectors are looking good.

I should be on the streets in January..

And I will be reporting in on how it handles...

[Hotchkis]

Yes. Just having all the new technology on my Car, will blow me away.

And being an old guy but new to the Track, I don't need all the adjustments yet.

The new Hotchkis Bars, and Subframe Connectors are looking good.

I should be on the streets in January..

And I will be reporting in on how it handles...

Solarguy09 – That’s getting real close! Don’t forget to get some video footage so we can hear it too!

[solarguy09]

Solarguy09 – That’s getting real close! Don’t forget to get some video footage so we can hear it too!

Thanks. It is going really quick. I needed to rebuild the rear end or we would be done. Maybe another 10 days before my second test drive...

It may be a few weeks before I can test it on some turns.... It sounds wicked... And the sum of all the new parts ,should be really, really Fun.

This Car did not deserve to sit and waste away.

You can bet it won't now... The LT-1 just Screams to redline...

I can't wait to check both the cornering, and the straight line traction bite...

I always had traction issues and the traction bars only prevented wheelhop.

I think the subframe connectors and all the rear parts and wide ZR tires are going to give it more straight line bite too.