Backseat or roll cage?

[Johnny Blaze]

At what point does the backseat go and the cage comes in?
When do you give up the access for safety of the cage?

[exwestracer]

The same time you decide you need a 4pt harness on the pasenger's seat. Really. If you feel you need them strapped in that tight, it's time to limit the ride to one guest...

[Jim Nilsen]

The same time you decide you need a 4pt harness on the pasenger's seat. Really. If you feel you need them strapped in that tight, it's time to limit the ride to one guest...

I'll 2nd that. Once you cross the line on a 2dr with a back seat you might as well treat it like a Corvette. You can make a cage removable but it is a lot of work to get it right. You can put in a Tiger cage or something comparable and get dual service out of the car.

The big problem is the right foot in any of situations, but when you start driving like you stole it you generate the need for saftey equipment really fast.

I like only having room for only one passenger and a lot of room for the items that don't fit in the trunk anymore. make a tool storage area in the back and a flat area to carry other items.

[SLO_Z28]

You have to look at how often you even use the back seat? I haven't used mine since high school for more than a place to throw my helmet, so for me the roll bar is a no brainer. If you had small kids that rode in the back seat still i would keep it, but otherwise its pretty worthless to anyone over 5 feet tall.

[exwestracer]

An SCCA type roll bar (diagonal brace) does allow some back seat access, but once you extend the harness bar for the passenger's side...forget it.

[jay72nova]

could you build the main hoop and down bars right up against the skin of the car and make the crossbars removable? mix that with a super low removable padding for a rearseat and good belts.. and you might find enough headroom and rearseat access to use?

[rustomatic]

People in the back just mess up the suspension and suck up power. Lose the seat; I've done this to countless cars over the years, and have never regretted doing so. It is a bit of a pain building a block-off panel for the trunk opening, however...

[exwestracer]

People in the back just mess up the suspension and suck up power. Lose the seat; I've done this to countless cars over the years, and have never regretted doing so. It is a bit of a pain building a block-off panel for the trunk opening, however...

Or, leave the seat and just lose the occupants...lol.

If the OP is asking about the 3rd gen in his avatar, that probably isn't an option!

[LSxChevelle]

Are removable crossbars legal in any racing?

I don't think its legal for NHRA which I know most aren't concerned about here but I know I want to go every now and then and once I have my car 'done' I'll be required to have the cage. But I like having rear seats for cruises with kids/friends...

[Johnny Blaze]

Removable harness bar is something I wondered about as well, would if be legal? Would it be strong?
Yes it's the third gen I am thinking about. It is stricly a fun/toy car. 450-500hp, no heat no ac, no stereo etc.
Im not sure at this point if it's a street car that can race or a race car that can go on the street(stole that from the what is pro touring thread)
I'm trying to lean more towards a street car that can hit the races, do maybe no cage, or perhaps an autopower 4 point? I like their cages as well.
I also thought maybe an autopower 4 point and ad some lower bars near the rockers.

[solarguy09]

I am at that crossroads too..

I am upgrading my Car for the track, but I will drive it on the Street..

No Back passengers, and rarely a guest....Liability reasons...

Although 51 years old...I have owned this car since 1983, and I will drive it like I stole it.......4 speed Close ratio with an LT-1 350, so things can get crazy...

They talk about street driving with no Helmet can be dangerous ,even with a padded bar ,in case of an accident.

I am looking for I guess just roof crush protection....

Do not like the bolt in kind, as they can fail when you really need them....

Thanks for the input... Sorry if this is a thread hack..i am a newbie....

[Simmo]

Another contemplating it too...

Although the rear passengers aren't an issue in the El Camino, its the hacking up of the floor to get to the frame, and more hacking to get the rear bars down without going through the rear window. Seen a few ideas from guys on here but it's one of those ahhhhh maybe next weekend things!

Partial thread hack but what is the general consensus on web grabber/clamp seatbelts? Local regs make it a pain to run harnesses so I'm thinking these might be a improvement at least?

[exwestracer]

Another contemplating it too...

Although the rear passengers aren't an issue in the El Camino, its the hacking up of the floor to get to the frame, and more hacking to get the rear bars down without going through the rear window. Seen a few ideas from guys on here but it's one of those ahhhhh maybe next weekend things!

Partial thread hack but what is the general consensus on web grabber/clamp seatbelts? Local regs make it a pain to run harnesses so I'm thinking these might be a improvement at least?

With body-on-frame construction, you don't need to cut anything more than a hole the size of the tubing. Lay out the cage to fit just inboard of the center of the rails, and leave enough extra tube to get to the bottom of the frame. Remove the body mount bolts and hole saw the frame to slide the tube down through to the bottom. Install the cage through the floor and tack it together. Jack the body up so you can finish weld the top joints and top and bottom of the frame, then let the body back down and bolt it back together. I've done a number of cars this way, and I only make the floor holes large enough to get a rubber grommet around the cage tubes.

[Simmo]

With body-on-frame construction, you don't need to cut anything more than a hole the size of the tubing. Lay out the cage to fit just inboard of the center of the rails, and leave enough extra tube to get to the bottom of the frame. Remove the body mount bolts and hole saw the frame to slide the tube down through to the bottom. Install the cage through the floor and tack it together. Jack the body up so you can finish weld the top joints and top and bottom of the frame, then let the body back down and bolt it back together. I've done a number of cars this way, and I only make the floor holes large enough to get a rubber grommet around the cage tubes.

Cheers exwest, sounds about the cleanest idea I've come across so far. The frame is boxed so may have to remove that first. Or would a ground plate be better "following the contour" of the frame? The frames coming right off anyway so rooms not too much of an issue.

[exwestracer]

Cheers exwest, sounds about the cleanest idea I've come across so far. The frame is boxed so may have to remove that first. Or would a ground plate be better "following the contour" of the frame? The frames coming right off anyway so rooms not too much of an issue.

I'd leave everything on the frame alone and just hole saw straight through it all. If you don't want to cut into the frame, then a top plate would work as well; just cut the ends of the cage tubes to match the contour of the frame plate.

Just remember you have to wait until the body is back on the frame to put the cage in!

[carguykeith]

Now I read this... I went to the top of the frame, so had to get the bode EXACTLY positioned and weld everythign up solid. Getting teh body back down was an adventure, that for sure.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This allows the top hoop and down bars to lay right across the bottom of your headliner while still allowing for a complete weld all the way around the joint. Also nice for access to welding onto the frame.

I still think I could carry one pasenger in the back seat safely, just need a 4 point harness and put them in the middle...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[LSxChevelle]

Are cages required for any road racing?

It's crazy that I can go to a track day at my local track (Pacific Raceways in Seattle area) and I can go faster in the corner after the straight away than I would trap in the 1/4... In my old C5 Vette I trapped 108mph and hit 128mph into the corner on my first open track day.

So...I know that the crossbar rule is for NHRA. I want a cage since I like to drag race too but will do a sneaky removable crossbar with padding since I'll probably be able to get through tech.

[Skip Fix]

One other thing to consider is safety for the rear seat occupants hitting the cage in case of an accident. Bars to heads,legs,arms don't do well.