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Fultz1275
06-30-2005, 04:04 AM
Hey Guys,

I have a Tremec TKO 5-speed in my 68 chevelle. I just put a 500+ hp 383 in it. I am having problems shifting into 3rd at high rpm (5000 and above.) I called Tremec and the said it would be hard to shift above 6500 rpm but 5000-6000 shouldn't be a problem. Sometimes it just won't go in, and sometimes it grinds when it's going into 3rd. And it's only 3rd that is difficult. Has anyone had this problem??? :dunno:

check out www.haulnss.com for some pics of my car. It is the 68 Chevelle. Let me know what you think of the site.

Thanks

morrisclassic
06-30-2005, 07:04 AM
Yes I have the same problem with my Camaro, 383 mildly built. When I shift to third it just isn't there. The shifter stops, also that is the only gear that I have a problem with. I have talked to Charlie at Standard Transmission in Texas. He told me to send the trans back to him and he would look at it. Now maybe there is something more than just my inability to shift. Call him and ask questions 800-783-8726. Keep me posted as I will be interested in the fix.

Billy

Fultz1275
06-30-2005, 10:06 AM
Is yours only at high rpm too. Mine shifts into 3rd fine under normal highway conditions. It's only when I'm tearin' into it.

Blown353
06-30-2005, 11:19 AM
How is your bellhousing alignment, both concentricity and parallelism?

My TKO shifts very smoothly and easily into all gears even at 6700-6800 rpm. The more miles I put on it the smoother/easier it gets. My bellhousing is concentric to the crank within .0025" and parallelism is about .0016. This was measured using a Starrett magnetic base/post and an Interapid dial test indicator.

What fluid are you running in the tranny?

Before blaming the transmission I would measure and inspect your bellhousing and also take a good look to make sure the pilot bushing is OK and you have adequate clutch release (I like to be able to get at least a .030" feeler gauge in between the disc and the flywheel at full throw.) Most shifting problems are usually a bellhousing/clutch problem, not the transmission. Modern trannies won't tolerate as much bellhousing misalignment as an older 4-speed.

morrisclassic
06-30-2005, 02:53 PM
Do you have a TKO 500 or TKO 600? I'm running a lakewood bellhousing.
Fluid is GM Syncromesh. I will check the clearances that you have mentioned. Thanks for the information.

Billy

Fultz1275
06-30-2005, 05:28 PM
I am using a Lakewood bellhousing and the guy that installed it said that they checked the runout. I'm not sure what the tolerance was though. I am running GM Syncromesh too. Currently I have about 1000 miles on the tranny. It's wierd because sometimes it shifts fine and sometimes it grinds. Maybe I'm a dumbass and am not shifting well enough.

sinned
06-30-2005, 07:02 PM
I am using a Lakewood bellhousing and the guy that installed it said that they checked the runout. I'm not sure what the tolerance was though. I am running GM Syncromesh too. Currently I have about 1000 miles on the tranny. It's wierd because sometimes it shifts fine and sometimes it grinds. Maybe I'm a dumbass and am not shifting well enough.Always be careful of what they guy you paid to perform work says. They will almost always blame everything under the sun before agreeing they made a mistake and have to re-do some labor for free. I would ask exactly what he measured the bellhousing at. If he actually did it I'm sure he wrote the numbers down somewhere.

parsonsj
07-01-2005, 11:15 PM
I'm with Denny. $5 says the guy bolted it in and didn't bother checking runout.

jp

GMJim
07-02-2005, 06:06 AM
My experience is that Lakewood housings will not align within the .005" Tremec spec. and will require offset dowels. Installing these dowels in the car can be very challenging especially if you have headers. Another thing to consider is that Lakewood housings are machined to 4.684" which is .004" divided by 2 = .002" larger than the retainer flange on a Muncie or a TKO. Having a .005" tolerance to deal with for a TKO means that to use the Lakewood you must be within .003" when you align the housing. This .003" can be difficult to achieve while the motor is in the car. I would have to agree with the others that the bell housing was not correctly aligned. It can take hours to get this right if you're not doing it every day, and can be very frustrating. McLeod bellhousings are manufactured to be within the .005" spec right out of the box using stock straight dowels provided your block has not been line bored/honed. It is also machine ground to fit a Muncie or TKO perfectly at 4.680". The extra fifty bucks or so for the McLeod is well worth the money when you consider the cost of offset dowels and the time it will take to align the housing. I would pull the transmission and check the alignment and the condition of the input shaft and pilot bearing. If alignment is good and all the parts look good then it would be a good time to get the tranny checked. If the alignment is out you can correct it with the dowels or go for the McLeod.

Kenova
07-02-2005, 12:25 PM
I agree with Jim. I have a Lakewood scatter shield in my Nova. It took me a couple of hours to get the alignment right, and that was with the engine on the floor. I was about to chuck it all when I got lucky and the alignment finally came in at .002". I can only hope it stayed there.
Ken

Bigblue73
07-09-2005, 05:16 AM
First off, I'm running a mopar conversion from Keisler. I experienced the same problem with the TKO-1 (the predecessor to the TKO-500). My shifter location is mounted outside the transmission and offset about 1 1/2 inches to enter into the interior in the stock location. Your tranny may be different with the shifter mounted on the top of the tranny. The mounting of the shifter on my tranny had slightly oversized hole that I had to adjust the shifter back in the holes to get the tranny into 3rd gear under hard acceleration. Granted this seems like a freakin' quick fix, but this is what keisler told me to do and it worked. By the way, my runout is .0015 on the left, .0020 on the right. My lakewood is custom machined by Keisler and I am running offset dowels.

On another note, even though the McCloed bellhousing machined concentric to .005, the mounting on the block may not even be close to spec'd. You still should dial indicate your bellhousing every time it's off.

Best of luck getting your tranny to work, 5th gear (o.d.) really is nice.

PhillipM
08-24-2006, 04:27 PM
I don't mean to beat a dead horse but did any of you guys find a solution to your hard shifting problems. The TKO600 in one of our camaros is just a pain to shift and I was hoping to find some sort of fix. The bellhousing alignment is within spec so... I don't know where to look next. Thanks Phillip

parsonsj
08-24-2006, 05:31 PM
No, mine shifts great. I checked runout and aligned my adapter plate to within .002.

jp

toofun
08-25-2006, 03:39 AM
Well Im no transmission expert, BUT I have a very torquey 383 (THANKS AGAIN JEFF!!) that has a TKO-600 in it. I bought a Mcleod scattershield and the tranny ligned up balls on and slide in super smooth first slide into place!! It easily shifts into all gears at ANY RPM. In fact the second to third shift for me is just a matter of pushing lightly up on the shifter and it finds the spot on its own. It is like butter. I know many of you said that the alignment is right but for the extra money, well worth using the Mcleod setup. My advice is to buy one and sell off the Lakewood or other bellhousings you may have. It makes all the difference in the world. I have not heard of one problem like this with anyone who runs the Mcleod unit. Also make sure you are using the right fluid GM SYNCROMESH. It makes a huge difference as well and I believe is the only fluid you are suppose to run in it.

Mark
TOOFUN

parsonsj
08-25-2006, 04:23 AM
I just re-installed my tranny last night, after getting a leak fixed. It went in so easily that it slid back out about 3/8" of an inch from gravity. I could push it back flush with just a couple of fingers. I guess I got the clutch aligned pretty well. :)

jp

andrewb70
08-25-2006, 05:58 AM
I just re-installed my tranny last night, after getting a leak fixed. It went in so easily that it slid back out about 3/8" of an inch from gravity. I could push it back flush with just a couple of fingers. I guess I got the clutch aligned pretty well. :)

jp

No need for my fancy alignment tool then?

Andrew

4MuscleMachines
08-25-2006, 06:32 AM
I had the same issues, not only do you have to check for run out but also for parallelism. The parallelism on mine was off because I had powdercoated the scattershield.

parsonsj
08-25-2006, 06:46 AM
No need for my fancy alignment tool then?LOL, no not this time! I guess my universal tool works pretty well. It's 2 for 3.

jp

Steve Firebird
09-22-2008, 06:06 AM
I was at RTTH4 with my Firebird running a TKO600 and after the first two runs down the strip it would not go into 3rd gear to save my a$$. I am sure some of you noticed I missed 3rd several times. My brother called it running out of talent which was pretty funny. When I am driving it on the street it shifts great. I contacted CC5S and they put me in touch with Tremec. My TKO was built at the end of 05 and when I gave Tremec the numbers off the tag they said there was a problem with the shift lug design during the time mine was built that caused a shifting problem. I had the new lugs in my hand with in 3 days. I don't plan to replace them until this winter but when I do I will also recheck the run out before I reinstall the transmission. Just thought I would post this to add to the info on this thread if anyone else is running out of talent going into 3rd gear on the track. :)

69keith
09-22-2008, 07:21 AM
I used a old lakewood and dialed in pretty good with just filing the paint out the holes. I think I read somewhere that the older lakewoods were better than the newer ones...
Keith

KeislerGene
09-22-2008, 10:37 AM
I used a old lakewood and dialed in pretty good with just filing the paint out the holes. I think I read somewhere that the older lakewoods were better than the newer ones...
Keith

This is true the hydro forms are miss shapen from many years of production. I heard it's the same thing with McLeod.




The 3rd gear shifting under load or higher Rpm can sometimes be related to the person shifting the trans. Sometimes you are over shifting the handle. If you take notice the Tremec shifter, ours and others have spring tension so when the handle comes out of 2nd it automatically centers for 3rd. If you are having an issue with it blocking that typically could be the issue. If it is grinding that means the snycros havent matched up typically at rpm above 6-6200.

When shifting try using just the palm of your hand when going from 2nd to 3rd. Let the shifter do the work.

Gene

wiedemab
09-22-2008, 12:03 PM
It's interesting that you mention the "overshifting". I have a Pro5.0 and a Tremec in my Mustang and I literally do just what you said - put the palm of my hand on the shifter and push forward for 3rd. I'm far from being the best shifter in the world, but I don't seem to have too much trouble with hitting 3rd. My car rev limits at 6K though too.

One of my friends has a '67 Fairlane with a 514 and TKO600. He says that it will sometimes not go into 3rd - no grinding though. I'll bet he is overshifting it.

GMJim
09-24-2008, 05:42 PM
This is true the hydro forms are miss shapen from many years of production. I heard it's the same thing with McLeod.

Gene
McLeod bell housings are not hydro formed.

KeislerGene
09-25-2008, 05:40 AM
Gene
McLeod bell housings are not hydro formed.

Ok, they are not machined so how are they made? Maybe I used the wrong words. Are they not pressed around a stamp if you will?

Bigblue73
09-26-2008, 07:25 AM
Gene, they are spinnings. Metal spinning that is, made a lathe looking machine that forms the blank around a mandrel with great precision. The cold forming of this metal actually reduced the stress that material sees and minimizes the "bounce back" from the forming process.

Check out this link - http://www.metalspinningworkshop.com/MovieClipTwo.html

JEFFTATE
09-26-2008, 12:38 PM
I was at RTTH4 with my Firebird running a TKO600 and after the first two runs down the strip it would not go into 3rd gear to save my a$$. I am sure some of you noticed I missed 3rd several times. My brother called it running out of talent which was pretty funny. When I am driving it on the street it shifts great. I contacted CC5S and they put me in touch with Tremec. My TKO was built at the end of 05 and when I gave Tremec the numbers off the tag they said there was a problem with the shift lug design during the time mine was built that caused a shifting problem. I had the new lugs in my hand with in 3 days. I don't plan to replace them until this winter but when I do I will also recheck the run out before I reinstall the transmission. Just thought I would post this to add to the info on this thread if anyone else is running out of talent going into 3rd gear on the track. :)


Wow , its funny you should say this .
I'm having the same problem.
I thought it was just me.
Maybe I'll call Tremec.

GMJim
09-26-2008, 02:20 PM
Not to confuse the mechanical problem that Tremec had a year or so ago with shifter lugs, shifting a five or six speed transmission from 2nd to 3rd is quite different than shifting a four speed. By applying a light right hand pressure while coming out of second will insure you go into the 3-4 gate with a four speed. Doing the same with a five or six speed could cause you to butt end the gate between 3rd and 5th causing a miss shift. Technique is important here. Just put the palm of your hand against the back of the shifter and shove it forward. This will allow the bias springs in the shifter (if your shifter has them) and the lighter ones in the transmission to center the stick in the 3-4 gate while the stick is going forward out of second and towards 3rd. The stock Tremec shifter and our Hurst Blackjack and Sidewinder shifters have this bias built in to them. This is something to consider if you wanna shift it quick! Though I have several friends that drag race and shift their TKO's at well past 6500 rpm without a problem, Tremec does not guarantee it will shift successfully beyond 6500.

Jeff Tate
The straight goods on the TKO shifter lug issue.
The TKO's affected by this particular 3rd gear shift issue were produced about a year ago. The problem was the shift lugs were machined slightly out of tolerance and was recognized almost immediately. Any of our customers that purchased transmissions a year or so ago that are just finishing up their projects and experience this problem can call us and we will arrange warranty through Tremec. We rotate our stock so any we received are long gone. We go through quite a few transmissions and we only had a few that were affected.

JEFFTATE
09-27-2008, 04:38 PM
Thanks Jim ,
I bought my transmission from CS5S on 5/30/06.
Could it be one that is affected by the shift lug issue ?
Could I get you the serial number and see if it's one of them ?

Maybe it's just me.
I try not to put sideways pressure on the shifter when I'm shifting into
3rd gear , but maybe I'm doing it without realizing it.
Perhaps I need practice.

KeislerRich
09-29-2008, 05:15 AM
As always, GMJim has put out some great information. :twothumbs

The most recurring questions that I am asked is how come I can't power shift 2nd to 3rd? I tell them the same thing GMJim has explained. When shifting out of second, try using the palm of your hand and simply throw the shifter straight forward with a VERY slight angle to the right. This will allow you to hit 3rd 99% of the time.

On a 4 speed car, when shifting from 2nd to 3rd, you have to go up, over and up again. On a TKO, if you use this method you will likely miss 3rd 99% of the time as you will end up hitting the gate between 3rd and 5th.

I personally use this method on my mustang and the only time I miss the shift is when my hand is faster than my feet.


Richard
Tech Support

JEFFTATE
09-29-2008, 08:07 AM
Hmmmm.
I'm gonna' have to practice.

GMJim
09-29-2008, 12:49 PM
Jeff
Call me or PM me your number. We can discuss the problem and if the lugs need to be replaced we can get this process started. If you want to try to change your shift technique first and see what happens just let me know how it goes. Like Richard says, we get a lot of calls regarding the 2 to 3 shift issue. The majority of the time it's shift technique. Old habits die hard! Practice practice practice.

JEFFTATE
09-29-2008, 01:28 PM
Thanks Jim , I will get the serial # off the trans and call you.
I need more seat time and shifting practice too.

tomspo04
09-29-2008, 11:35 PM
I've got the same problem with my TKO 600 going into 5th under a load. I've got about 600 miles on it. Is this the same issue? Thanks.

Tom

KeislerRich
09-30-2008, 08:57 AM
Tom:
I personally have never heard of an issue shifting into 5th under load. Not sure what to advise you on that. Maybe GMJim can chime in and offer something, perhaps he's had that call?

The TKO's gates are evenly spaced (to the best of my knowledge) so I can rule out you overshifting when trying to hit 5th. The only thing I can come up with and I hate to say it, is driver error? maybe you're "trying to hard" to hit 5th under load? Not letting it "naturally" find 5th on it's own when you're on the gas?

Being that you have the TKO in 2nd gen Camaro, the shifter should be in what "we" call the mid-offset shift position. Basically that means that the shifter is hangin over the drivers side of the transmission. I don't know where you purchased the kit from but if it was a Keisler modified trans. then the shifter is offset to the driverside and is actually connected to the shifter rail via a link. If the bolts holding the link to the cup are not tight, then it might cause a hard to find 5th issue? Is this one of Keisler's or CC5S or someone elses? How is the shifter setup? Is it anything like I just described?


Richard
Tech Support

TnBlkC230WZ
09-30-2008, 08:09 PM
When shifting try using just the palm of your hand when going from 2nd to 3rd. Let the shifter do the work.

Gene

I've never seen a street transmission you don't shift this way. Be they 4 speeds, 5 speeds or 6 speeds. The lone exeception being column shifters.

tomspo04
09-30-2008, 08:59 PM
Tom:
I personally have never heard of an issue shifting into 5th under load. Not sure what to advise you on that. Maybe GMJim can chime in and offer something, perhaps he's had that call?

The TKO's gates are evenly spaced (to the best of my knowledge) so I can rule out you overshifting when trying to hit 5th. The only thing I can come up with and I hate to say it, is driver error? maybe you're "trying to hard" to hit 5th under load? Not letting it "naturally" find 5th on it's own when you're on the gas?

Being that you have the TKO in 2nd gen Camaro, the shifter should be in what "we" call the mid-offset shift position. Basically that means that the shifter is hangin over the drivers side of the transmission. I don't know where you purchased the kit from but if it was a Keisler modified trans. then the shifter is offset to the driverside and is actually connected to the shifter rail via a link. If the bolts holding the link to the cup are not tight, then it might cause a hard to find 5th issue? Is this one of Keisler's or CC5S or someone elses? How is the shifter setup? Is it anything like I just described?


Richard
Tech Support

Richard, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've got the Mcloed offset shifter. It puts the shifter right in the middle of the console and seems to work well. I've been banging gears for a long time, but...I guess it could be driver error. I'm not sure what I could do different to prevent this from happening, though. I'm away right now but will take it for a spin when I get home to get a better feel for what's going on. I hope you're right; if this can corrected with technique it would be better than pulling the tranny.

Tom

TnBlkC230WZ
10-01-2008, 05:36 AM
I'm interested in your response too. I'm leaning towards a Richmond tranny because of the shift issues. If this solves it, I will have to give the TKO a closer look.

KeislerRich
10-01-2008, 05:56 AM
Richard, Thanks for taking the time to respond. I've got the Mcloed offset shifter. It puts the shifter right in the middle of the console and seems to work well. I've been banging gears for a long time, but...I guess it could be driver error. I'm not sure what I could do different to prevent this from happening, though. I'm away right now but will take it for a spin when I get home to get a better feel for what's going on. I hope you're right; if this can corrected with technique it would be better than pulling the tranny.

Tom


Tom:
I am not familiar with the McLeod offset shifter, hopefully GMJim will chime in and offer up some more good advice. That sounds like one of their products. The same should hold true here though. I'm not sure how they connect to the main rail inside the tail on an offset shifter, but it would seem like something there is loose. Certainly easy enough to check out. My other suggestion was to look at your shifting technique. I know when driving a 4 speed you have to move the handle up, over and up again to hit 3rd and I also know that if you try that technique on a TKO, it will not work. The gates are too close together. Maybe you're doing the same technique when trying to go from 4th to 5th? When you get a chance, check it out and let us know.


TnBlkC230WZ.... Your 1st response in this thread to Gene, I think you misunderstood what he was trying to convey. Use the palm of your hand and throw the shifter straight forward out of 2nd and it will automatically find 3rd on it's own (using a VERY slight diagonal movement).
AS for your comparison between Richmond and the TKO, I cannot speak to the Richmond as I have no real world experience with them. On a TKO however, I do have one and it shifts like butter. 99.9% of the time, the shifting woes you read about is the direct result of driver error and using the 4 speed technique on a 5 speed TKO. The only exception is as GMJim pointed out, back in late '05 (if I remember right) when Tremec had an issue with some loose toleranced shift lugs. They quickly and professionally fixed that issue and it is no more.
You rmain point of focus should be on what your plans are for your car? Horsepower and torque output, importance of overdrive, ease of installation etc..... If you're used to driving 4 speeds, then you too will have to re-learn how to drive, a 5 speed.


Richard
Tech Support

KeislerGene
10-01-2008, 06:04 AM
I'm interested in your response too. I'm leaning towards a Richmond tranny because of the shift issues. If this solves it, I will have to give the TKO a closer look.

Maybe I didn't clarify it. Basically with the 4 speed when you came out of 2nd gear their was only one gear to the top right 3rd gear. So if you gripped the knob and jammed to the right top it always found 3rd gear. If you do that with a TKO and you handle it like that you may possibly take it into 5th or hit in between the 2 gears.

Other than a few issue's with shift dogs a little while ago I am not aware of shifting issues with Tko's. I have ran into a couple of guys at a shows that felt they had the same issue and once I showed them they havent had the issue again basically driver error.

I would take a look at the cheaper more modern and stronger TKO over the Richmond 5 speed overdrive.

Gene

Kevin Hebert
10-01-2008, 06:21 PM
God I miss that transmission! What is a shift lug and can it be changed by a back yard hack?
Kevin

TnBlkC230WZ
10-01-2008, 07:49 PM
Tom:

TnBlkC230WZ.... Your 1st response in this thread to Gene, I think you misunderstood what he was trying to convey. Use the palm of your hand and throw the shifter straight forward out of 2nd and it will automatically find 3rd on it's own (using a VERY slight diagonal movement).
AS for your comparison between Richmond and the TKO, I cannot speak to the Richmond as I have no real world experience with them. On a TKO however, I do have one and it shifts like butter. 99.9% of the time, the shifting woes you read about is the direct result of driver error and using the 4 speed technique on a 5 speed TKO. The only exception is as GMJim pointed out, back in late '05 (if I remember right) when Tremec had an issue with some loose toleranced shift lugs. They quickly and professionally fixed that issue and it is no more.
You rmain point of focus should be on what your plans are for your car? Horsepower and torque output, importance of overdrive, ease of installation etc..... If you're used to driving 4 speeds, then you too will have to re-learn how to drive, a 5 speed.


Richard
Tech Support

Rich,
Thanks for the input. I've driven 3, 4, 5 and 6 speeds over the last 35 years. I don't like automatics; even my Mercedes is a 6 speed. I shift them all the same making the 2 -3 shift (that's the 1 - 2 sift on 3 speeds) by pushing straight up. If you push straight up on stick, it should go into 3rd gear. If your Competion Plus shifter doesn't automatically slide over when pushing up, then the shifter needs repair or replacement. The sure way of missing a gear is trying to move it to the right while shifting. I even taught my kids to make this shift with the palm of the hand.

As for the objectives for my car, It is a 71 Nova with a ZZ4 and M20. I may make a few changes, but even if I changed engines, I would be below 500 ft/lbs of torque. I really like the 1 -4 gearing of the TKO600. It matches well to my 3.73 axle. Given most of my cruising is in the 45 - 70 MPH range, I want an overdrive of .70 - .68. I've ruled out a T56 because I don't want to cut my floor brace, but the 2.66 first gear and .80/.62 overdrive gearing would be perfect. I'm even looking at the G-Force T-5 with .73 overdrive.

KeislerRich
10-02-2008, 04:59 AM
Rich,
Thanks for the input. I've driven 3, 4, 5 and 6 speeds over the last 35 years. I don't like automatics; even my Mercedes is a 6 speed. I shift them all the same making the 2 -3 shift (that's the 1 - 2 sift on 3 speeds) by pushing straight up. If you push straight up on stick, it should go into 3rd gear. If your Competion Plus shifter doesn't automatically slide over when pushing up, then the shifter needs repair or replacement. The sure way of missing a gear is trying to move it to the right while shifting. I even taught my kids to make this shift with the palm of the hand.

As for the objectives for my car, It is a 71 Nova with a ZZ4 and M20. I may make a few changes, but even if I changed engines, I would be below 500 ft/lbs of torque. I really like the 1 -4 gearing of the TKO600. It matches well to my 3.73 axle. Given most of my cruising is in the 45 - 70 MPH range, I want an overdrive of .70 - .68. I've ruled out a T56 because I don't want to cut my floor brace, but the 2.66 first gear and .80/.62 overdrive gearing would be perfect. I'm even looking at the G-Force T-5 with .73 overdrive.

Well, it sounds like you have the techique perfected so shifting a TKO should be no problem.

AS for your Nova and gear "wishes", the only TKO in that criteria is the TKO-600 RR. It has the same gears as the TKO-600 except it has a .82 5th gear. With 3.73's, a .82 will not give you much overdrive at all.

On my mustang, I had the TKO-500 and 3.73 gears. Of course, 1st gear was a stump puller but after I got used to it, I loved it. As for 5th, it was the .68 and I was turning 2300rpm's at 70mph with a 25" tall tire.

Another crucial element of proper shifting, is the air gap in the clutch. After you've adjusted the clutch to where you want it, take a .030" feeler gauge and see if you can slide it between the clutch disc and the flywheel with the pedal pushed to the floor. On a diaphram style pressure plate, you should have a .030 air gap. This goes hand in hand with having a 1/4" gap between the face of the bearing and the fingers on the pressure plate with the pedal at the rest position. If you have the clutch set like that (1/4" gap) you should have no problem dis engaging the clutch. If you ARE having issues at the track, check the air gap and if needed, adjust the bearing a little closer to the fingers until you get the .030 air gap. This will give you maximum dis engagement and will rule any potential clutch issues with regard to missing shifts.


Richard
Tech Support

TnBlkC230WZ
10-02-2008, 05:51 AM
Thanks again for the advise. One question. How do you get the feeler gauge in the bellhousing to measure the .030 air gap? It is a pretty tight fit around the bellhousing. I have a stock GM bellhousing and 153 tooth flywheel.

JEFFTATE
10-02-2008, 09:54 AM
Thanks again for the advise. One question. How do you get the feeler gauge in the bellhousing to measure the .030 air gap? It is a pretty tight fit around the bellhousing. I have a stock GM bellhousing and 153 tooth flywheel.

I also have a stock GM Bellhousing and a stock GM Clutch.
Hmmm....

GMJim
10-02-2008, 06:06 PM
Tom:
I am not familiar with the McLeod offset shifter, hopefully GMJim will chime in and offer up some more good advice. That sounds like one of their products.


Richard
Tech Support


Tom
The McLeod shifter is called the Slix Stick. We no longer sell that shifter. Not that it wasn't a good shifter, just that we are now affiliated with Hurst and developed the Blackjack to replace it. There are a lot of Slix Sticks out there and to my knowledge are still going strong. A fourth to fifth gear shift in a TKO was never intended to be a quick shift. The gate is too far over and getting it in 5th quickly as in a power shift won't work. Fifth gear is supposed to be a cruise only gear so shifting to fifth is done with purpose. The Road race as it's called .82 OD tranny is only an 18% drop and can be used as a performance gear in some cars equipped with the right rear gears but shifting to fifth is still done slowly.
Hope this helps.
Jim

tomspo04
10-02-2008, 08:17 PM
Tom
The McLeod shifter is called the Slix Stick. We no longer sell that shifter. Not that it wasn't a good shifter, just that we are now affiliated with Hurst and developed the Blackjack to replace it. There are a lot of Slix Sticks out there and to my knowledge are still going strong. A fourth to fifth gear shift in a TKO was never intended to be a quick shift. The gate is too far over and getting it in 5th quickly as in a power shift won't work. Fifth gear is supposed to be a cruise only gear so shifting to fifth is done with purpose. The Road race as it's called .82 OD tranny is only an 18% drop and can be used as a performance gear in some cars equipped with the right rear gears but shifting to fifth is still done slowly.
Hope this helps.
Jim

Jim, Thanks for the input. I love the tranny; guess I just ned to get used to 5th.


Tom

KeislerRich
10-03-2008, 04:51 AM
Thanks again for the advise. One question. How do you get the feeler gauge in the bellhousing to measure the .030 air gap? It is a pretty tight fit around the bellhousing. I have a stock GM bellhousing and 153 tooth flywheel.


If it is a standard GM bell(aluminum) you can go in where the inspection cover attaches. I have done it that way every time I have done a clutch or TKO install here. If you are using a Lakewood or similiar, you really can't.

Air gap is critical as it ensures you get proper dis-engagement of the clutch. It becomes even more critical when you are into power shifting and running hard. As I said, it is just one way to either identify or eliminate the clutch from shifting woes.



Richard
Tech Support

JEFFTATE
04-20-2009, 09:27 AM
If it is a standard GM bell(aluminum) you can go in where the inspection cover attaches. I have done it that way every time I have done a clutch or TKO install here.

Richard
Tech Support

I took the dust cover off and all I see is the flywheel.
How can you get to the actual clutch disc / pressure plate with a feeler gauge ??
I also looked through the hole where the clutch fork goes in.
I can't see any way to get to the clutch disc to check the air gap ??

My bellhousing doesn't have an inspection hole.
Just the hole where the clutch fork goes through..

Another thing I've noticed is that the plug in the front of my TKO is leaking.
I wonder if fluid contamination on the clutch could be causing the clutch disc to hang on the flywheel ??

I'm about to pull the transmission to replace the o-ring on the front plug.
And to replace the shifter lugs.

I'm thinking that replacing the shifter lugs , o-ring , double-checking the bellhousing alignment , and getting the clutch air-gap adjusted properly should fix my shifting problem.

JEFFTATE
05-04-2009, 05:46 AM
BTW , I replaced the shift lugs.
I couldn't tell much difference in the new and old lugs.
But they actually made a difference.

KeislerRich
05-04-2009, 08:51 AM
BTW , I replaced the shift lugs.
I couldn't tell much difference in the new and old lugs.
But they actually made a difference.

The difference in the lugs is in the "tab" on the bottom side of the lug and with the size of the chamfer on the edges of the lug. The "old" ones were still in spec but were on the highside of the tolerances. The "new" ones are on the low side of the tolerance from what I can tell.

As for checking the air gap thru a GM bell, try going in the through the starter pocket (starter removed obviously :)). I was able to do it this way on cars I did here in house.



Richard
Tech Support

JEFFTATE
05-04-2009, 09:10 AM
Thanks Rich.
I did notice the chamfer was a little more "open" ,
allowing the shifter to slide into 3rd gear a little better.

That's how I checked the air gap.
I thought about cutting a small inspection hole in the bottom of the bellhousing , but I didn't.
I didn't want to weaken it.