1973 Pontiac Grand Am LS7 Swap

[Later-A-body]

5603356034

This is a new thread I am starting to document my LS7 swap into my PT 1973 Pontiac Grand Am.

Part of the build includes re-doing the entire frame. When I originally restored the car, I had done a body off. Frame powder coated and all the rest that goes with it. Unfortunately after that I was always chasing a mild lean towards the driver side. Had a local frame shop check it, and found it to be lower on that side?? Hard to figure why considering the I am the second owner since 1989 and the original owner was 80 years old when he sold it to me. The car never had the lean before I restored it. As luck would have it, I located a 1973 LeMans at a local specialty wrecking yard a few months ago. I decided the best way to approach this was to get the other frame and swap everything over. Last week I pulled it all apart. It took 3.5 hours and none of the bolts stripped or were rusted solid. I know.....we California guys are spoiled. Dont hate me. I decided to take the frame to Rob MacGregor at No Limit Engineering in San Bernardino, Ca. The plan is to have Rob re-weld all the factory welds, box the entire frame, add cross bracing in critical areas, and true the frame. I will powder coat the frame medium/dark gunmetal grey metallic when it's finished. Rob told me they took preliminary measurement of the frame and it was only 1/8” out which he said was very good compared to others he has worked on. He pointed out all of the areas of the frame that need to be improved. He said all of the factory welds on this particular frame were better than most, but will all be re-welded. It would be nice to step up to the plate and buy a custom frame, but I just dont have that kind of money, so this is the best alternative. I did tell him I want to go to a rear coil over set up. I will be bringing him the rear diff next week in order for him to mount it to the frame to get everything squared up for the coil set up. Since I already have a complete Global West front and rear suspension on the car, I will be swapping those parts back to the new frame. ERL called me today. The short block is being machined now, and will be finished by the end of next week. As soon as I know what the piston to deck height is, I am ordering the heads in order to get the compression ratio between 11-11.5:1. I had initially intended on ordering WCCH Brodix castings, but I have recently went to Dr. J's Performance and spoke with Bryce regarding his Air Wolf CNC ported heads. They are very impressive. I have not decided yet which ones I will get. I received the cam from Geoff at EPS and the MAST oil pan. Shaun at SMC Performance has supplied me with a lot of parts as well. The intake is a factory LS7 ported by LS2 Portworks. The cam specs are .633/.640 lift, 226/242 @.050 on a 115+3 LSA. I inserted a picture of some of the parts I have so far. I will continue to post the entire build as it progresses. Thanks.

[68Formula]

I knew it! When I saw your new engine go up for sale I figured this was going to become a badazz LS project.

Planning on duplicating this build on the PY forum? Hope you're wearing armor-plated underwear. LOL!

This thing is going to be awesome. Good luck.

EDIT: See you already did start it on PY, and with positive feedback too. Pontiac crowd must be warming up to these swaps finally.

[73z-6sp]

fvgbhnj

[srh3trinity]

This is gonna be awesome. Keep us posted on the progress.

[Later-A-body]

Yeah, I had to sell off all of the Pontiac engine parts in order to finance this. Thanks for the feedback. I am pretty excited about this. The PY guys can be brutal, so we will see. I will be posting all the build on PY and Pro-Touring as well. Today the rear diff comes out. Thanks.

Sean

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Hey Sean - Badazz for sure. I'm curious how you picked your cam before you selected heads? Wouldn't flow affect your decision? The cam you have is a little beefier than the one I'm putting in my LS7, although I'm hunting torque. Are you running a 1.8 or 1.7 rocker ratio?

Edit - Richard @ WCCH would be my choice!

[Later-A-body]

Ron,
I know that I will be running ported LS7 heads regardless of which ones I pick, but I knew the flow numbers were going to be in the 375-390 range either way. The only reason I have not bought them is that I am still waiting for the piston to deck height clearance values so that I can set up the chamber size correctly for the CR I want. I am running the standard 1.8 LS7 rockers on this set up.

[Later-A-body]

Well I decided to work on the car today. Here is the progress. The two dolly's really help when your doing it by yourself. Now it's off to the rear end shop to have them inspect everything. After that it goes to No Limit for the coil over mock up.49970

[blakgoat]

this is going to be a great build! I had a 73 GTO that I build to duplicate the 73 SD 455 4spd ascot silver. it was a great car, but got bored of just showing it at car shows, sold it and am working on a pr-toured 69 Firebird with a 418 LS, after this am thinking of doing a 77 Can Am pro tour with an LS, I will be watching your build!
Imran

[Later-A-body]

Thanks Blackgoat.

[srh3trinity]

Do you have any pics before the tear down?

[Later-A-body]

5000350002

If you meant the whole car, here are two pictures.

[sr73bu]

This is going to be awesome... I'll get my pen and paper ready for notes... Good Luck with the upgrade!

-Sean

[Zanie]

Very cool.
My sister had a really cool (and fast) triple black 73 Grand Am when I was in high school. I always like the lines of that car. Yours looks great.
Can't wait to see your latest iteration come together.

[Later-A-body]

Thanks Sean....nice to see another '73-'77 A-body member taking interest. I like your Bad Buzz name. I need to think of a name for this project?? I'm open to ideas.

[454bug]

VERY cool project! :twothumbs

That car has an awesome looking grill/front end on it!

[acegto]

DUDE!!! My favorite ride of all time! I'm gonna be watching this for sure.

[Later-A-body]

Cool guys. Thanks for the positive comments.

[LeighP]

Very nice...I love the 73 A body Pontiacs...great lines.

[chuckd71]

Interesting car. Honestly don't think I've ever seen one before.

[CruizinKev]

wow nice!!!

[Later-A-body]

Chuckd71, I get that reation all the time. Most people have no idea what car it is. That is why I always loved this car. It remains unique. You never see them on the road, even out here in California. Most of these later year A-bodies are just not that popular, and you have to be real good at knowing what othet parts fit them, because the aftermarket does not cater to these cars. Some vendors like Global West have parts for them. I already have all of thier suspension on the car.

[alowerlevel]

Sweet, another Gen 3 A-body :cheers:

I will be taking notes on your LS swap as well, Im currently on the hunt for a decent (and cheap) LS motor to swap into my '73.




5000350002

If you meant the whole car, here are two pictures.

What size wheels and tires and what backspacing were on the car in those pics?

[Later-A-body]

I went to No Limit Engineering today to see the finished frame modifications. Rob went way over the top and exceeded my expectations. I am very happy with the work. The entire frame was rewelded in addition to the bracing he added. The frame was boxed and then
squared on the rack following all of work to make sure it was true. I had initially intended to do a coil over rear suspension, but decided to stay with the traditional set up and go to an adjustable shock set up. He also built a new transmission crossmember that attatches to the boxed rails. So now I have an an extra trans crossmember for a TKO 5-speed if anyone needs one.

560355603656037

[Later-A-body]

More pictures

56038560395604056041

[andrewb70]

Great work. However, I hope that the tube in the front doesn't get in the way of your headers.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

I do have to check that first. I decided to take the frame home and test fit everything first before powdercoating.

[andrewb70]

I do have to check that first. I decided to take the frame home and test fit everything first before powdercoating.

That is a very good idea. I wish I had done that with my car before getting the frame powder coated. That's one downfall of powder coating. If any changes need to be made afterwards there is no easy way to recoat the frame. With paint you can just touch it up and you are good to go. Nice progress.

Why did you decide not to do the coilovers?

Andrew

[aps63]

Great car. You don't see these often.
Good luck with the build.

[Later-A-body]

Andrew: It came down to money for now. A decent set of coil overs plus the labor for the fab work on the rear housing is going to be at least $1000. It is not a priority. The car is not an all out roadrace car. I can dial in the rear suspension with adjustable shocks and a new custom set of traditional springs.

[alowerlevel]

...



5000350002

If you meant the whole car, here are two pictures.


What size wheels and tires and what backspacing were on the car in those pics?

[andrewb70]

Andrew: It came down to money for now. A decent set of coil overs plus the labor for the fab work on the rear housing is going to be at least $1000. It is not a priority. The car is not an all out roadrace car. I can dial in the rear suspension with adjustable shocks and a new custom set of traditional springs.

There is nothing wrong with that. There is no technical advantage to coil overs besides the easy ride adjustability. A good set of regular coils and a excellent set of shocks will work just as well as coilovers. In fact, the extra money spent on shocks would be a better investment. I would check out the new three way adjustable shocks from Ride Tech.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Yeah, I agree 100%. I will look into the Ride Tech shocks like you suggested. I appreciate the tip. This is why I post this information. I know I will get good feedback and information from people that have already done these projects like your GTO. Now I will need to wait until the engine is finished in order to get it into the chassis and start mocking it all up. I ordered the headers from BRP/Musclerods yesterday. I went with the 1 7/8" long tubes. I ordered them raw in order to break in the motor without burning the coating off....been there before. I will ceramic coat them after.

[LeighP]

usuaully, the lower control arm mount brace shouldn't interfere with headers...I fitted a similiar style brace on my 71 Firebird subframe and it's no where near the headers on my 455.
Great progress.....70's A bodies are cool!

[Later-A-body]

Well since the engine is still a few weeks away I am looking for a junk LS block locally to trial fit into the chassis to check everything. I was not able to get one before the frame was worked on. Working backwards. Oh well.

[compos mentis]

I remember when these cars first came out and getting a ride in one. No other car manufacturer had anything like it. It's like some folks at Pontiac were trying to do the first PT style car for the masses.

IMO the 73's are the best looking year of the Grand-Ams. So rare to see these of course and I've never seen one with these style wheels, which certainly compliment the car. It looks great in silver btw.

[Later-A-body]

Thanks Skip. I remember seeing them when I was pretty young in the mid 70's and thinking how cool they looked. Grand Am's are not a popular car in the musclecar world, but they are unique. Considering what most mid 70's cars looked like with their big ugly mandated bumpers, I think Pontiac did a great job on the styling.

[73z-6sp]

fvgbhnjm

[vintageracer]

A good friend of mine just purchased a 74 4 door 400 CI Four (4) Speed Grand Am. Supposedly one of 5 built.

Nice original paint car with honeycombs, buckets, console and a hog leg! That would make a neat BIG PT car. All the original paperwork also! I have sent him a link to this thread as I am sure he will be interested.

He also has a 74 Black/Gold Lemans Sport Coupe Factory 400 4 Speed car if anyone else is interested in building another different but neat PT Project. Complete car not running.

PM me if interested in the 74 and I will hook you up!

[SRD art]

Ha! Neat Ride! Back when I was first getting rolling doing renderings for $ I had a client that had one of these, it was black with wide meats on Centerlines all around. I did a cartoon style drawing for him.

While I was doing his I also did a pencil sketch with a Pro-touring flair and wondered what one would really look like all done up. Nice to see a PT version actually getting built out of such a unique ride. Looking forward to more progress! Keep up the good work!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/GrandAmphotb-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/GA-1.jpg

[compos mentis]

Thanks Skip. I remember seeing them when I was pretty young in the mid 70's and thinking how cool they looked. Grand Am's are not a popular car in the musclecar world, but they are unique. Considering what most mid 70's cars looked like with their big ugly mandated bumpers, I think Pontiac did a great job on the styling.

You're right of course, Pontiac sure did a great job dealing with those mandated 'horizontal push guards' lol. If they didn't, there never would have been all those T/A's sold as well.

Back in '74 my Dad bought a new Buick Regal, which also had great styling, but inside, the dash on the Grand-Ams IMO blew away what the competition offered.

[Later-A-body]

SRD, Very cool rendering of the Grand Am. I will need to get one of those made soon. I like the fact that people are responding to this project. It at least allows an "alternative" vehicle get some attention in the PT world.

Compos, Agreed...Pontiac always had the best exterior and interior styling of all the GM brands.

[Later-A-body]

505335053450535
I made some progress over the weekend. I removed the front nose, bumper and core support. Received some new parts.....LS7 throttle body and fuel rails. The rails are used but they look like they were never run. Also scored a damaged aluminum LS2 block and heads to help with the mock up in the new frame. My headers and motor mounts will arrive Tuesday, and I will get those in to see if there are any issues. If it all works, off to the powdercoater.

[alowerlevel]

I guess you missed my questions earlier?

[Later-A-body]

alowerlevel; Did you mean the wheel size? I dug it out of my file.
Front: 18x8.5 / +16mm / 5.4" backspacing
Rear: 18x10 / -6mm / 5.25" backspacing.

[andrewb70]

505335053450535
I made some progress over the weekend. I removed the front nose, bumper and core support. Received some new parts.....LS7 throttle body and fuel rails. The rails are used but they look like they were never run. Also scored a damaged aluminum LS2 block and heads to help with the mock up in the new frame. My headers and motor mounts will arrive Tuesday, and I will get those in to see if there are any issues. If it all works, off to the powdercoater.

I was just looking at your fuel line arrangement. If you want to keep an OEM look, there is a company that makes fuel like kits that uses the GM snap on style fittings that will go right to your new fuel rail. The LS rails can be flipped so you can position the inlet to the fuel rail on the passenger side. Then use one of those OEM looking lines to mate with your existing hose. Now, if I could only remember the name of that company. :-/

Edit*** Found it..

http://www.techafx.com/

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Thanks Andrew. I will look into that. I am going to need to redo all of the lines in the car since the frame has been boxed. I will be using stainless hard line throughout.

[alowerlevel]

alowerlevel; Did you mean the wheel size? I dug it out of my file.
Front: 18x8.5 / +16mm / 5.4" backspacing
Rear: 18x10 / -6mm / 5.25" backspacing.

Yeah thank you for the info, Im trying to figure out what wheels will fit mine. What size tires were you running on those wheels?

[Later-A-body]

Front: 255/45/18
Rear: 285/45/18

No problem. Glad to help. Pirelli was the only company that had a tall enough performance car rear tire at the time I bought them. But they are too expensive now. Nitto has a 295/45/18 that will fit our cars. They are half the price, but double the treadwear at 300. The pirelli's are 140 treadwear. Very sticky.

[SRD art]

SRD, Very cool rendering of the Grand Am. I will need to get one of those made soon. I like the fact that people are responding to this project. It at least allows an "alternative" vehicle get some attention in the PT world.

Although we all like certain cars seeing something different is a good thing. That's why I'm building an Olds wagon and my Novas are the "ugly" 73 and 74 vintage, lol! Let me know if I can help with a rendering when you get around to it. Keep the photos coming!

[Later-A-body]

The big brown truck stopped at my house today and he gave me these. It's like Christmas in October....Yay. I like the quality of them. They are the 1 7/8" size from BRP/Hedman. They are raw so I can coat them after the engine break in. Now it's off to the chassis shop to test fit the engine and headers on Thursday.

560425604356044

[andrewb70]

Front: 255/45/18
Rear: 285/45/18

No problem. Glad to help. Pirelli was the only company that had a tall enough performance car rear tire at the time I bought them. But they are too expensive now. Nitto has a 295/45/18 that will fit our cars. They are half the price, but double the treadwear at 300. The pirelli's are 140 treadwear. Very sticky.

I used to run the Nitto's on my car. Now I run the Falken 615s. They make a 295/40-18 which is still tall (hair over 27") and has a 200 treadware. I run a matching 255/40-18 in the front. Just food for thought.

Andrew

[seancarole]

want to do mine????????

[Later-A-body]

Andrew: The size of the wheel openings on these cars are so much bigger than the Gen 2 A-body. I need at least a 28" tire in the back just to make it look right, and that's with the car lowered.

[alowerlevel]

How much was the car lowered?

[sr73bu]

Andrew: The size of the wheel openings on these cars are so much bigger than the Gen 2 A-body. I need at least a 28" tire in the back just to make it look right, and that's with the car lowered.

I'm running 17x9 with 5" backspacing and 285/40/17 Nittos up front.... no issues at all..
they barely kiss the 1+3/8 swaybar at full lock with 2" lowering springs... honestly it looks like I've got plenty of room to go out (toward the fender "flare") I'm having my rear wheels stretched to 10.5 with 315/35/17's... i'd put money on them fitting up front too..lol

Keep up the great work... a few years from now i'll be doing the same thing to mine....

-Sean

[Later-A-body]

The front has QA1 coil over shocks, so I can lower it as much as I need. I never dump the front, just enough to get the right look. I prefer to have a decent amount of travel left in it to preserve the handling. The rear is about 1" lower than stock. I will probably have new springs made for the rear to lower it another 1/4".

SR73; How do you like the 1 3/8" sway bar? I use a 1.25 factory WS6 T/A bar up front and the original 7/8" rear bar. The car seemed to be fairly neutral with the Pontiac engine, but now I am taking about 200lbs off the nose.

[John Wright]

I had to click on this thread to see what a 73 Grand Am looked like....It reminds me of the 76 Grand Prix that I had many moons ago...body is shaped similar, the Grand Am is very unique....I like it.

[andrewb70]

Andrew: The size of the wheel openings on these cars are so much bigger than the Gen 2 A-body. I need at least a 28" tire in the back just to make it look right, and that's with the car lowered.

I am not surprised. Even on my car the 295/45s looked really good. I believe NItto does make a 305/40-18 in the drag radial. That will be a hair taller then a 295/40 and the extra width is always welcome. But I hear you, it is hard to find tires that are tall and wide to really fill the wheel wells!

I don't know where you plan to mount oil tank for the dry sump, but I would try to keep it on the firewall or at least behind the front wheels, just to keep all that weight as centered as possible.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

I had a chance to test fit the motor/headers today. There are a few minor changes that will need to be made to the new frame brackets, but nothing too drastic. Rob at No Limit won't have time to get to it until after SEMA though, so I wont be posting too much until next month. The rear diff is apart for new powder coating and inspection...no problems there. The engine is still in the build stage and I am waiting for final piston to deck height numbers in order to order my cylinder heads in the correct chamber size.

[sr73bu]

SR73; How do you like the 1 3/8" sway bar? I use a 1.25 factory WS6 T/A bar up front and the original 7/8" rear bar. The car seemed to be fairly neutral with the Pontiac engine, but now I am taking about 200lbs off the nose.

I'll have to check my receipts from a few years ago.... If I remember correctly the front sway bar is a Hellwig 1+3/8" bar... it really compliments the factory rear bar (i'm running the OG one like you)...The car is pretty damn balanced for a budget based suspension like mine...
Just a tip- if you plan on running a large bar up front, weld in some nuts now (inside the frame for mounting the bar) before you send out the frame for coating... i'm not sure how long before the bolts will strip out the factory threads on my frame... although it has held up at a few autocross events.

I'll let you know how the whole 315's up front works out soon, thats the one advantage to these 73-77 A-bodies, they can swallow some massive tires.

Keep the updates coming!

-Sean

[Later-A-body]

Sean: Yeah definitely good advice on the frame studs for the bar. I can incorporate that now before it gets coated. Does the car understeer at all with the big bar? I have to decide which springs to use up front. I was running 550# springs up front with the 455 and it handled well, but now the LS is dropping about 200 lbs. I am not sure if I want the #550's and the 1.25" bar as before, or maybe try a lower rate spring and a bigger bar? The car will get autocrossed and some track time, but nothing hardcore like every weekend.

[sr73bu]

I'm not sure of the spring rate on my springs.. they are OPGI 2" drop springs... I bought them way back when.. before anyone made parts for these cars..haha.

I'd say my OPGI springs are "softer" and they work well with that big bar. Not sure if the tires I have up front would help (285/40/17), but I really can't say it has that much understeer with the setup I have. I'd start with what you've got and see how it works.. that 1.25 bar/ 550# springs may have the same results as a bigger bar and softer springs with the drop in wieght. If anything a wider front tire could be run too... with all these factors I'd just start with what you've got and work from there.

-Sean

[Later-A-body]

Well, I dont have any photos to post this week until the frame is back from powdercoating, but do have some updates on the engine progress. I received the final specs from ERL on the 428" shortblock. Here are some specs I received from Seth at ERL regarding the piston to deck height for each cylinder.
1. +.007”
2. +.007
3. +.007
4. +.008
5. +.009
6. +.009
7. +.007
8. +.009

4.131” cylinder bore size, 4.00” stroke, -8cc dome on piston, 1.1150” compression height on Wiseco piston, 6.125” rod,.051” thick gasket. After getting these numbers, I was able to move forward with a cylinder head choice. I decided to go with Dr.J's Performance AirWolf LS7 castings. I had done a lot of homework on flow numbers and parts selection, and after sitting down with Bryce at Dr. J's, I decided he was the best person to do business with. He crunched all of my numbers including my cam card specs to come to an agreeable compression ratio. We decided to go with a 68cc chamber. This will yield an 11.3:1 static CR, and an 8.6:1 Dynamic CR. Cranking compression will be about 185 which will keep me well within the range of acceptable for pump gas. I am running all factory GM EFI and electronics to keep the performance and reliability I desired for this build. My horsepower goal for this motor was 600. Anything over that will be welcome, but probably overkill since getting that much power to the ground will be futile. The numbers his program gave us were around 640 HP, peaking around 65-6700 which is what I wanted. No need to ring it out to 7k. I hope to have the drivetrain in the car next month. I decided on a color scheme for the engine. Pontiac metallic blue and charcoal grey metallic. The grey will be the color that I am using for the frame as well. Pictures will follow ASAP as everything progresses. Thanks.

[acegto]

Great color choices for the engine bay. Excited to see what they do when they get back from SEMA.

[Later-A-body]

While I am waiting to get the frame back from the powdercoater, I have sent out my front coil-over springs, and rear coil springs to Kevin at Coil Spring Specialties in Kansas. They are measuring the rates and heights against what they are advertised to be to see exactly what I had in the car, and will custom build me anything I want based on the weight of the car and what I want to do with it. The front QA1 springs are suppose to be 550# rated. The rears are from Global West, but I cant remember what the rates are. They are both linear rates and I will be sticking with a linear rate. Since I am losing about 200# off the front end I am not sure what rate to go to. My idea is to get the fronts somewhere in the 550-600# range, and increase the rear rate by about 15% with an extra 1/4" drop. I am going to autocross the car, but I do not want to ruin the ride. With all the improvements I now have in the frame mods, I want to make sure I have the suspension scienced out correctly. I already run a 1.25" front sway bar, and a 7/8" rear sway bar, so I am going to keep them as is and see how that works. Hopefully I will be able to post some pictures next week of the finished frame mods and powdercoating.

[andrewb70]

I have the QA1 coilovers on my GTO with the 550 springs and LS power. That rate is not stiff at all. I've often wanted to upgrade to a stiffer spring but none are readily available. I think the cone spring design might have some rate limitations. I would be curious to see what Coil Spring Specialties says about making a firmer cone shaped spring.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Andrew: yeah that's why I called CSS. QA1 does not have an upgrade like you said. How does your car handle on the road course with 550# springs now? Your car is lighter than mine for sure.

[andrewb70]

Andrew: yeah that's why I called CSP. QA1 does not have an upgrade like you said. How does your car handle on the road course with 550# springs now? Your car is lighter than mine for sure.

My car handles nicely on the road course. It is very predictable with some body roll and manageable understeer. On the auto cross it is a wreck. It is just too big and bulky. As it sits now it weighs about 3750 pounds without driver and maybe half a tank of gas.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Andrew: Are you thinking the springs are too soft, or do the swaybars need to be larger? I know my car will be at least 3850 with the LS, without me in it. I may decide to step up to 600# springs and see how the current swaybar combination works and change things if needed.

[andrewb70]

Andrew: Are you thinking the springs are too soft, or do the swaybars need to be larger? I know my car will be at least 3850 with the LS, without me in it. I may decide to step up to 600# springs and see how the current swaybar combination works and change things if needed.

On my car I need a rear sway bar. For you, I would stick with the rates that you already have and see how it turns out. You can always change those parts later if you feel that you need to.

Aren't the suspension parts for these chassis interchangable with second gen F-bodies?

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Yes, the F-body parts do interchange. My front swaybar is a '78 Trans Am WS6 unit that I had pulled years ago. Why no rear bar on the GTO?

[andrewb70]

Yes, the F-body parts do interchange. My front swaybar is a '78 Trans Am WS6 unit that I had pulled years ago. Why no rear bar on the GTO?

For years Global West recommended no rear bar for street cars, so when I built the car originally, I left it off. Having had the car at some events I think a rear bar would help me a great deal. However, secretly I am lusting after a Roadster Shop chassis with the IRS, but don't tell anyone....

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Yeah, they still say not to run a rear bar, but I would try one to see what improvements it could make for you. I have all of the GW stuff, but the rear bar is staying put on mine.

[Later-A-body]

I had a chance to get back to the chassis shop to see the revisions made to the frame. In the post's I had earlier, you can see that the front crossbar had to be moved in order to allow the steering box and radiator/lower fan shroud to clear. Rob at No Limit took care of those changes. Here is a look at the new location for the crossbar.

[Later-A-body]

Here is a shot of the frame to lower control arm brace that was changed in order to allow header clearance. I am running 1 7/8" headers which now clear nicely.

56045

[Later-A-body]

After going to the chassis shop, I stopped by Global West Suspension. Doug and I spoke about their new long travel coil-over suspension kit for my car. They do not have one for the '73-'77 A-body, but due to the fact that I have my frame at the chassis shop, which is only three miles from them, Doug was interested in creating a kit for this chassis. I will not be able to afford the Penske shocks, but I will most likely be running a QA1 double adjustable coil-over. This kit uses a longer shock which will allow for more overall suspension travel. I stole a picture from another web post in order to show the set up. I will have the ability to run a traditional coil-over spring with a huge amount of rates to choose from. We will determine the rate later. Doug knows I want to keep the ride intact so he suggested to start around 600# or so. The car is a tank even with the LS7 installed. I will be selling my existing QA1 coil-overs in order to afford this latest decision.

51397

[cmthomas32]

Awesome work. Like the pictures, very nice..

[Later-A-body]

I have a few updates on the Grand Am swap to post. Today, I took my best friend Vinny with me (see pic below),and picked up my cylinder heads. They are Air Wolf LS7 heads by Dr. J's Performance in Anaheim CA. They are 68cc chambers, which with my 428" motor will yield 11.3:1 CR. The port volume is 265, which will provide great amount of velocity, which is very important for this combination in my heavy car. Flow numbers peak at 404 cfm at .800 lift which is nice to say, but means nothing since the lift on the cam peaks at .640. At .650 lift the heads are flowing 385 cfm, 399 cfm at .700. ERL has already shipped the shortblock, and it will arrive 12/21. The valves are stainless 2.20/1.60. I have been experimenting with different colors to paint the block and intake manifold. I decided to go with the traditional Pontiac Metallic blue which is pictured on the top of the block that is pictured. I have a junk block that I use to experiment on.

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[alowerlevel]

Damn Im liking that new coilover set up for the front. Cant wait to see this when its finished, maybe it will give me some motivation to get started on my '73. What are you using for a fuel tank with the fuel injection?

[Later-A-body]

The tank in the car is from a '90-'96 Impala. It is the plastic 23.5 gallon tank. I installed the Racetronix 255 lt. Walbro kit. The tank cost me $30.00 at the local wrecking yard.

[Later-A-body]

I also picked up most of my parts that were powdercoated. I decided to skip black and do a dark charcoal metallic finish. The car is silver, so there is a nice compliment between the two colors, and also against other components that are black like the suspension pieces. The core support, firewall cover, oil pan, front timing chain cover, and inner fenderwells are all in the grey color. The frame is still at Global West, but I should get it back in about a month. The frame will also be the same color as the other parts. The rear end was powdercoated as well, and I had them do the the cover in wrinkle finish black to give it a little contrast. I like the two together.

[alowerlevel]

Thank you for the info on the tank, I was wondering if those tanks would work on our cars. How hard was it to install? Any major mods needed?

I like the color of that powdercoat, Its gonna look real nice when its all together.

[Later-A-body]

The tank is a bolt in. The chassis on the B-body is identical to the '73-'77's. I used the later tank straps.They connect the same on one end. What I did was cut one end off the original straps, and welded them on the newer ones. That's it.

[Motor City Impala]

Excellent build thread. Love the different body style build. I have a question on the gas tank. How did you get one out of the local wrecking yard? All the Florida yards have to puncture the tanks when they get the cars rendering them useless. Not only that...they wont even sell a tank. I have a 87 chevy caprice that I will slowly turn into a PT car...but for now I am really enjoying reads builds like yours..not just for the diferent body style, but also for the info on different parts from other cars and custom mods. The '77-'90 B-Body's all had a BOLT-IN Brace in the same place as your modified lower control arm brace. I am not aware if you could use them on your chassis or not. Food for thought. Keep up the great work.
Todd

[Later-A-body]

The local yards here also drill a hole in the tanks. I was able to find a private yard that had not disabled it. I have not seen that lower brace on the B-body chassis, so I dont know if it can be used. I will have to look at that next time I get to the yard.

[Later-A-body]

I received the ERL shortblock today. Final size is 428". 4.130 bore with a 4" stroke. All forged internals. CR is going to be 11.2. ERL sends a clearance sheet of all cylinders, rod/main journal diameters and coresponding clearances. All 8 individual cylinder clearances are listed in addition to the oil ring gaps and many other specifications. It also list's the name of the technician that assembled the motor. I worked with Seth Shaeffer on this project, and he was great to work with. Very professional and willing to answer all of my questions. Overall it was a good experience, and I would highly recommend working with ERL. I will be getting it up on the stand this week and taping off the block to get it ready to paint. Luckily the weather out here is going to be close to 80* next week, so I can paint it and not worry about the temperature. It will be Pontiac metallic blue.

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[Later-A-body]

I also received some other parts for the build. I purchased a Powerbond SFI balancer in standard ratio, no underdrive. Very nice piece. The rockers I ordered are the CHE modified factory 1.8 LS7 rockers. They have the modified trunion set up to eliminate the needle bearing issues that some people have had. Nothing exotic, just beefy reliable parts that will work. The balancer is specific for a late model LS3 Corvette. I went ahead and ordered the GM Corvette front accessory drive kit today from Superior Chevrolet in Kansas. They sell it with A/C for $760. It has the alternator placed high on the driver side, and A/C low on the passenger side. Since I have the frame apart, I will be able to make any modifications needed in order to clear the A/C pump if needed before it goes to powdercoating. I also ordered the Corvette water pump, and the GMPP Pontiac LS valve covers which I really wanted, but damn it they are expensive. Free shipping too.

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[LeighP]

Nice stuff...I use the Powerbond SFI spec balance on my engine as well. I like those covers.

[Later-A-body]

Powerbond is an Australian company. You Aussie's make good stuff.

[tommycomfort]

Great build, I can't believe it took me this long to stumble across it! Keep the updates coming!
Tom

[Later-A-body]

Thanks Tom. I'm trying to keep the post interesting until I get the frame back.

[andrewb70]

Thanks Tom. I'm trying to keep the post interesting until I get the frame back.

This will be a beast and a completely different car than what it was before. Trust me....

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Yeah......I think I'm going to need to buy some big boy pants for this!

[andrewb70]

Yeah......I think I'm going to need to buy some big boy pants for this!

And some extra underwear...:-)

Happy New Year!

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

One of the things I had modified on the last redo of the car a few years ago was the firewall. I did not, and still dont have the budget to do a weld in smooth firewall. It is a one piece bolt in firewall panel that a buddy of mine fabbed up for me in 2006. I had it re-powdercoated in the dark charcoal grey and decided to get it back in before the engine installation. The car is still sitting on the old frame, but I felt I needed to get this part done. One thing I did this time was install dynamat on the original firewall to eliminate as much interior noise as possible. I had some dynaliner left over, and did the rest in the dynamat.

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[Later-A-body]

Here are a few after pictures of it bolted in place. I still have other things to hang such as the clutch master, hydroboost, etc. I will do that when the body is on the new frame.

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[andrewb70]

That firewall kit looks great. The fact that now you have a double firewall with insulation in between the layer should really make a difference in interior noise. I like that idea a lot.

You should see if Detroit Speed has a wiper kit for your car. It would really clean up the firewall more and they really function very well compared to the old wiper motors.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Andrew: That is exactly what I was thinking as well. I like the look of the newer wiper kit. I will need to look into that.

[Later-A-body]

Until I get the frame back, I have to keep myself occupied on this project by doing some of the liitle things that need to be done, or the things that bug me. The cowl area was painted back when the car was painted in 2002. I didn't like the way it looked lately. The paint was a little dull. So I decided to redo the area with a little texture. I used Duplicolor Armour bedliner. I taped off the car, sanded the area down and shot it with the spray can bedliner. Three coats, followed two light coats of low gloss black. I think it looks a lot better?

5706857069

[srh3trinity]

Any dimensions and pictures for the tank?

[Later-A-body]

I'm not sure what tank dimensions your asking about?

[Later-A-body]

Today I received the Corvette accessory drive with A/C, Corvette water pump and GMPP Pontiac valve covers that I ordered from Superior Chevrolet. GM does a nice job with the instructions, and even has every bolt in the kit labeled with part numbers to make installation easy. I plan to get the mock up block back into the chassis so I can fit the A/C on the block to see if I need to notch the frame for the A/C pump. The only part of the accessory drive I will not be using is the belt tensioner. I decided to go with Katech belt tensioner instead. I will be taking the power steering pump to Lee Manufacturing next week to have them modify the internals to accept the hydroboost.

570715707257073

[Later-A-body]

Today I went back to Global West to check on the progress of the long travel coil over frame modifications they are doing for my Grand Am. A summary of the work they are doing is that I had shown an interest in there long travel kit they had already introduced for the '64-'72 A-bodies. As I expected they of course did not offer that for my chassis. Doug, the owner of GW and I came to an agreement to use my chassis as a template to offer the kit for the '73-'77 A-body chassis. I had the QA1 hybrid coil over kit previously installed, which I was happy with, but realized it's limitations regarding it's amount of travel. At this point one side is almost completed and I will be able to get the frame back over to the powdercoater at the end of next week. They are also building a unique bump stop system that will mount undereath the upper control arm. The work is top notch as I have come to expect from GW, and since I already had literally everything they offer on my car, I am glad they were able to accomodate me on this project. I will post more photos of the completed work going forward. Thanks.

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[andrewb70]

That set-up from Global West looks fantastic!

Andrew

[srh3trinity]

I'm not sure what tank dimensions your asking about?
Fuel tank dimensions and pics.

[Motown 454]

Awesome project! Its going to be sweet when your done.

[Later-A-body]

It's coming along nicely so far. Hey Stephen, I can pull the tank out this weekend and send you the dimensions and pictures that you need...no problem.

[srh3trinity]

Thanks! Love this build!

[Later-A-body]

The next step for me is to decide what shocks I want for the rear. I decided to keep the traditional rear shock set up, but I want to replace the Bilsteins with an adjustable shock. I'm not sure what company I want to go with. I looked at Ridetech but dont see an adjustable non coil-over shock. QA1's maybe. Also looked at Varishock which does have one for my application. I will keep it simple and most likely stick with a single adjustable. Anyone have suggestions? As much as I wanted to do a coil-over on the rear....I just cant spend that money.

[andrewb70]

The next step for me is to decide what shocks I want for the rear. I decided to keep the traditional rear shock set up, but I want to replace the Bilsteins with an adjustable shock. I'm not sure what company I want to go with. I looked at Ridetech but dont see an adjustable non coil-over shock. QA1's maybe. Also looked at Varishock which does have one for my application. I will keep it simple and most likely stick with a single adjustable. Anyone have suggestions? As much as I wanted to do a coil-over on the rear....I just cant spend that money.

I am sure that Ridetech can set up up. A coilover can easily be used without the coils. :-)

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

I spoke to Darren at Ridetech yesterday. They have a single adjustable rear shock, but they dont know if it fits my car. I know most rear applications for A-bodies are 64-77, so I need to do some research on that. He mentioned the bolt in coil-over kit, but again no specific application for the '73-77 cars. He mentioned the possibility of using the '78-'88 G-body, but I am not willing to go that route unless I know it fits my specific application. I did speak to Kevin at Coil Spring Specialties in Kansas. In November I sent them one of the front QA1 coil-over springs, and one rear traditional spring I had in the GA. They mapped out all the details of the springs and gave me all the specifications of each. The front spring rating was 575 pounds. The rear was 135. I went over different ratings with him for the rear springs. I am leaning toward using a rear spring with a rating of 175 pounds, and about 1/4" lower than what was installed. I want the handeling to improve, but dont want to ruin the ride in the process. I think 135 to 175 is enough of an increase that would be noticeable. So it appears that I will stick with the traditional rear suspension at this time. As for the front, since I am going to the long travel coil-overs, I will most likely pick a front spring rating in the 600 pound area to start with.

Hey Andrew, What rear spring rates are you using in the GTO?

[Later-A-body]

Today I received more parts for the Grand Am. As I always have used Mcleod clutch parts, I purchased Mcleod's blowproof scattershield, SFI LS flywheel, and Mcleod/Wilwood 5/8" clutch master cylinder. The scattershield is heavy, but worth it since I blew up a clutch once before and saw what happens to the bellhousing. I already have a 3/4" Wilwood master for the the hydraulic T/O bearing set up that was installed in the car, but this new set up will reduce my clutch pedal effort. The 12" clutch and disc are my parts that I had previously installed on the Pontiac 455, and will be re-using those parts since they are in perfect condition. The plan is to lighten the flywheel from 30lbs. to about 23lbs. I had this done on the Pontiac, and it worked great on the street....revving very quickly. My garage is starting to look like a speed shop. I have parts all over the friggin place , so if the swap doesn't work out, I think I can open a parts store instead??

5707957080

[73GA]

OK Sean, I'm going into withdrawal here! Time for an update. What's the latest on the Global West suspension build? It looks freaking amazing! Do you have the frame back? Any update on your rear shock selection? Are you assembling the top end of the LS now? What's happening??? ;-)

Gavin.

[Later-A-body]

Okay, okay. Here's what I have. Global West is finished with the front end coil-over fabrication. I went out to them on Tuesday and delivered the rear end. I decided to go ahead and have the rear frame modified for coil-over suspension. I cant afford to buy the shocks and springs right now, but they are doing the fab work so that I can buy those later. In the meantime I will put the Bilsteins and traditional rear spring back in. I will get the frame back to the powder coater soon, and should have some pictures to post then. The only cool thing I can post now is the fact that I got to meet Paul Michael Glaser of Starsky & Hutch today at the Grand National Rodster show. To be honest, the only reason I went to the show was to meet him. It might sound a little lame, but hey, those two guys were my idols. Starsky & Hutch was a HUGE deal for me at the time. I was able to get a picture with him, and he was great to talk to. He was very approachable. Sometimes when you get to meet someone you really admire, you get disappointed. I am glad to say I was not disappointed.

57081

[Later-A-body]

Well it's been almost a month since I had anything worth posting, but today I finally was able to get the new modified frame back home after powder coating. Just as a recap, The frame was initally sent to Rob at No Limit Engineering to receive all of the extra bracing and boxing that I wanted done. Rob did a great job on the frame. It then went to Global West Suspension to have the front suspension modified for the long travel coil-over kit that I decided to install. Doug, Paul, Eric, and Amy at Global West were fantastic to work with as usual, and I highly, highly recommend anyone to call them for future upgrades. I had already had a QA1 hybrid coil-over kit installed, as well as all the suspension pieces they offered for my Grand Am, so this a real big upgrade in my eyes. I hope this new set up will allow me to dial in some great handling, as well as allow the ride to be even better than it was before. This is a BIG car, and it would be great to be able to hang with smaller and lighter Pro-touring cars. As a side bonus, GW had my rearend to mock up the rear for coil-overs as well. I wanted to pull the trigger on the rear coil-overs, but money was tight. To thier surprize and mine, the rear coil-overs fit in the stock locations, and no modifications or relocating was required for the coil-over shocks to clear the rearend housing. So for anyone with a '73-'77 A-body out there, you can bolt them on. For safety sake, GW did weld in some extra beefy steel plate in the stock upper shock mount area. I'm the dork in the blue shirt.

570825708357084

[Later-A-body]

Time to jump back into the build updates on my 1973 Pontiac Grand Am. I have been very busy at my job for the last few weeks, but have managed to make some progress on the new frame. I wanted to post some pictures of the extra bracing and other frame improvements now that it has been powdercoated. The first few pictures are of the new mounts for the long travel coil-over set up on the front suspension. The last picture is of the underside of the rear shock mount where Global West welded in a reinforcement plate in anticipation of the future addition of the rear coil-over set up.

570855708657087570885708957090

[Later-A-body]

Here are some more pictures of the rear set up. I wanted to at least have one end bolted together and rolling. I was able to hang the rear suspension. I am re-using the Global West tubular rear lower control arms, and have installed the new GW upper rear control arms as well. I will be getting the rear springs and shock in soon.

57091570925709357094

[68Formula]

This car is going to be so awesome!

[Later-A-body]

Here are some shots of the front coil-over suspension parts. I decided to go with QA1 double adjustable shocks. I looked into Ride Tech, but they discontinued the line of double adjustable shocks, and I felt triples were overkill for what I am doing, in addition to the cost of them. Doug at Global West helped me with my choice of springs. I picked a 600 lb. spring from Eibach in silver. I had 550 lb. springs in the car with the Pontiac 455 which weighs about 200 lbs. more than the LS7 will. I really want the ride to be good, so I am not looking to kill it with 900 lb. springs like some PT cars run. This car is going to be driven on the street a lot, and I will be doing some autocross events and road course work on occasion for fun. The doubles will allow me to adjust the handling at those events in addition to dialing in the ride on the street. If the 600's dont work, I can always go up or down in rate.

5719957198

[Later-A-body]

Here are some pictures of the front supension components. The upper control arms were created by Global West specifically for my long travel coil-over kit, and have been developed into a new parts line for the '73-'77 GM A-body chassis. The original GW front upper control arms that I had would not work now with the new coil-over kit. So this design will be getting a part number soon from GW and sold to customers wanting to install the long travel coil-over kit.
57212572135721457215

[andrewb70]

....

Hey Andrew, What rear spring rates are you using in the GTO?

I have 175s in the rear. I think I could have easily gone stiffer without issues, although I do not have a rear sway bar, which I think my car needs.

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

I finally dedicated a full day to the car. Most of what I got done was boring little detail stuff, but it is the little details that make certain projects stand out. I was able to run all of my fuel line and battery cable through the boxed frame rail. I only plan a short run of hose in the rail, then connect the braided line to -8 stainless hard line for both pick up and return. The Racetronix fuel pump harness I am re-using is also completly hidden inside the entire frame rail from back to front. I drilled two small access holes to feed the harness into the frame. Both holes allow the harness to pop out directly next to the alternator in front, and fuel tank harness in back. I also had to tap the access holes in the front suspension pocket to mount the custom upper A-arm bump stops. I am using 10 point stainless ARP stainless fasteners for a clean look. See pictures.

5767757678576795768057681

[LeighP]

Nice...very tidy. I agree, its little stuff that adds to the whole picture.

[Later-A-body]

This weekend is dedicated to getting the remainder of the front suspension, brakes and steering finished. I bolted up the Lee Manufacturing 12:1 quick ratio steering box. This is the same box I had on the car prior to taking apart....again. I painted all the tie rods, center link, etc with Eastwood Spray Gray which has a nice cast metal look. Bolted up the Baer 13" brakes which I was running before. Not exotic, but very effective with the hydroboost set up. Tomorrow the wheels and tires are going back on so I can officially have a rolling chassis. After that the brake lines and fuel lines are next.

[andrewb70]

Good progress!

Will you be able to bolt on the engine mount frame stands with the control arms in place?

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

I received the Speartech wiring harness today. It uses the E-38 computer and the pedal assembly for the DBW throttle body. I asked John to build it with the upgraded black mesh loom which looks terrific. I plan to start installation this weekend.

[coolwelder62]

Awesome build thread.I love the body style.

[Later-A-body]

Thanks. I have not had too much information to post lately, but I will be throwing a lot of information on this weekend. I will be posting all the information and photos of my fuel system / brake system install. I will have all the stainless hard line installed this weekend.

[ent72olds]

Iv'e gotta say, that is a sharp car! The mods are coming out awesome! Not enough collenades being done, I'm guessing due to the fact they are heavy? My first car was a '77 Buick Century, and you make me wisk to have that back so I can copy everything you are doing!! :lurk:

[Later-A-body]

"Iv'e gotta say, that is a sharp car! The mods are coming out awesome! Not enough collenades being done, I'm guessing due to the fact they are heavy? My first car was a '77 Buick Century, and you make me wisk to have that back so I can copy everything you are doing"!!
Thanks for the nice comments. Yeah the car is heavy, but with the LS7 installed it will be lighter than a 2012 Camaro! I am hoping around 3800 lbs.

I am starting to get the fuel system under way. The Aeromotive fuel filter is placed on the rear crossmember above the rear differential. This is were I had it placed before with the Pontiac motor. I will be installing -8 from the tank to te filter and continue the -8 to the modified LS7 fuel rail, and a -8 return line from the regulator. I will be placing the regulator directly off the filter this time around instead of at the motor to keep the firewall free of clutter. This will also keep the return line short, and keep the fuel from heating up. I also painted and installed my new rear springs from Coil Spring Specialties. I increased the rate from 135 lbs. to 175 lbs. and lowered the rear another 1/2". I will stick with the traditional rear set up until I can afford the rear coil-overs. I am hoping to roll the frame out of the garage this weekend after the fuel and brake lines are done so I can get some good outside pictures to post.
5948259483

[Later-A-body]

Today I finally had a chance to roll the chassis out of the garage and get some good outdoor pictures. Yesterday I had the entire fuel and brake lines built by Mike Swan. Mike is a mobile tech specializes in fuel systems, brake systems, and electrical. I wanted to tackle the stainless hard line myself, but trying to learn on stainless would get expensive, and I don't have the tube bending and flair tool. Mike built the fuel system with -8 stainless, and 3/16" for the brakes. He did a great job, and came to my house to do the work. We decided to mount the regulator in the back, and have a short -8 return line.
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[Later-A-body]

Here are a few more pics of the brake system.
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[ent72olds]

:cool:Very nice looking lines! Some tight bends there, how long did it take him to plumb everything? Did he charge by the hour or by the job? Sweet fittings too!

[Later-A-body]

Here are some fuel system pictures. -8 stainless feed and return. Just some extra insurance if I ever decide to make more power in the future.
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[Shadow X]

this is a wicked build! I can't wait to see the rest...

[Later-A-body]

One of the things I had Mike do is modify the factory LS7 fuel rail I am using. I had him weld a -8 adapter to the feed line, and modify the rear of the rail to accept a fuel pressure gauge. If anyone is interested in using Mike Swan for their project, you can contact him at 714-642-4773, or [email protected].
ent72olds....The job took about 7 hours. He quoted me for the whole job, and he stuck to it even though there were a few extra steps needed to finish up everything. Shadow X...Thanks for the nice feedback.

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[Mingus]

Very cool build. Nice to see a '73-'77 A-body getting some love.

[LeighP]

Nice work on those lines, I did al lthe brake lines in stainless when I built my 34 Ford roadster years back.....its a pain, but darn it looks nice.

[acegto]

Beautiful plumbing... thats so funny to say.

[Later-A-body]

Very cool build. Nice to see a '73-'77 A-body getting some love.

Yeah, I think besides Sean building his '73 Chevelle, I haven't seen another '73-'77 build yet. I thought about doing the fuel lines in braided to save some money, but I just wanted to do it in hard line. Just a better set up. I will be running a -8 hard line off the fuel rail behind the motor, and then run a short braided -8 connection to the frame.

[Later-A-body]

Testing to see if the video will load. This is a video of the rolling chassis for my 1973 Pontiac Grand Am and the progress I have made.

xfitwnPF4GQ

[cencalc6]

Very Nice Job on the Frame

[LeighP]

Nice walk around....it really helps to see the work done when you have it all on a video like that.

[ILLMATIC]

kool build

[Later-A-body]

Thanks. I think I will be putting up more video going forward since it does not seem to effect the amount of available media space available like with the photos. I am at a standstill for now though since I hurt my back last week. I hope to get some photos and video up of the LS7 soon. I have a date set aside to put the body back on the frame in mid July. I have a few other things to do before that happens.

[Later-A-body]

I thought it was time to throw some new information on the project. I have not been able to move forward for a few months due to some problems that I ran into with the cylinder heads. Long story short....I moved away from the Procomp castings in favor of the Brodix BR7 castings for the LS7 build. The Brodix castings were backordered for quite some time, but I now have them at Dr. J's Performance for the finish porting and machine work. I am having them finished at 68cc. This will give me 11.3:1 CR. The castings are the six bolt versions, and Made In The USA...even better!! I hope to have the motor completed by the end of October.

[Later-A-body]

I am nearing the point where the body will be reinstalled so I have been keeping busy on the engine mock up. I have a junk engine installed until the LS7 is ready to be installed. The headers are full length Hedman 1 7/8". They fit perfectly. As I stated in previous postings, my goal for this car was about 600 flywheel HP but it needed to be clean. So as promised I am installing dual 3" Magnaflow catalytic converters. I have had lots of musclecars before, and was tired of the smell. I conceived this entire build and parts selection based on the fact that cats would be used. The cam was specifically designed by Geoff at EPS with this in mind. With all the technology the LS motors have, I couldn't see me going overboard "again" and overcamming this car. See pictures.

[ONDSKAN]

Love this CAR!!! One of my favorite 70's designs. Great build can't wait to see finished.

[Later-A-body]

Well after having to switch direction on the cylinder heads, I finally received my new Brodix LS7 STS heads. They were on backorder for a while which had put me back a few months. They were ported by Bryce at Dr. J's Performance. The runner volume is 265cfm which will help build big torque numbers. They are 6 bolt versions as well. So I am now in the process of finishing the long block which will allow me to finally get the drivetrain installed following the body being being reinstalled on the frame.

[LUV2XLR8]

brake/fuel lines look great!.. looks like a great project build!

[sr73bu]

Awesome! Great update! can't wait to see it all back together!

Do have any part numbers on the Body mount bushing you are going to use? i've yet to find an exact set for our cars.....

Thanks,

Sean

[Later-A-body]

Hey Sean....nice to hear from you. I had purchased the body bushings from Performance Years about 8 years ago. They might still be available but not sure. I also remember seeing just this month a full set of urethane bushings available, but I cant remember who was selling them. Maybe on E-bay.

[Later-A-body]

I wanted to post some pictures of the engine pieces I had painted. I wanted to paint the engine components the correct Pontiac Blue metallic to keep the Pontiac vibe under the hood without going overboard. I did have the covers sprayed in two-tone with the grey that I had my frame, firewall, and inner fenders powdercoated. I like the way the grey and blue compliment each other. It's hard to see in the pictures, but there is a fine black detail line seperating the two colors on the covers. I have seen a few intakes painted, so I decided to go for it. The intake really pops. This is all just sitting on the junk longblock for pictures. I hope to have the LS7 finished in a few weeks, and will post the real pictures then. Hope you like it.

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[howehot]

Engine looks great.

[sr73bu]

Thanks for the info!...BTW: Motor looks Awesome!

-Sean

[VCT-TA]

I like the Pontiac blue covers and intake! Where did you source the paint and what is the spec.? Any primer and prep used?

Thanks
Dan

[John Wright]

painted parts look great!

[Later-A-body]

The blue paint code is WA 4743. My painter used a company called Limco. He said he prefers them for shooting single stage. No primer or clear on the plastic.

[Later-A-body]

I was able to get the headers and cats welded up and fitted into the chassis. The flnges on the cats are 3" stainless 3 bolts from Pypes. These things are very nice, very high quality. If your looking for flanges, I highly recommend these. They are tig welded on the inside, so no welds are visible. I also welded the O2 bungs into the collectors. I will be using factory GM LS7 sensors. Next up, the existing exhaust needs to be modified to meet up with the new pipes.
670726707367074

[Later-A-body]

Here are some pictures of the new transmission crossmember that was required after boxing the frame. It will be a modular piece.The center section will unbolt from the rail mounted pedastals. The cross bar will be 2" square tube, with flat stock running up and over the exhaust. The flat stock is needed because the headers are much closer to the floor on the LS motor, than they were on the Pontiac 455. If you notice there are some small holes drilled into the section that runs over the catalytic convertors. This will allow me to mount heat shields in order to keep the floor from getting cooked by the cats. I have not decided if I want to box the area over the exhaust, or leave it open. If I box it, it will require me to unbolt the rear exhaust section if I need to remove the crossmember. It would be stronger though.

[compos mentis]

Yeah, I think besides Sean building his '73 Chevelle, I haven't seen another '73-'77 build yet.

Definitely like to see a '73 Hurst Olds and a '73 Buick Stage I Gran Sport get the treatment you guys have given yours. :twothumbs

[Later-A-body]

I would really love to see some other '73-'77 builds on the PT site. They really are great cars and if you get creative, you can get around the big bumper styling they got stuck with. One of the best looking cars are the '76/'77 Olds 442's.

[twosaturns]

I would really love to see some other '73-'77 builds on the PT site. They really are great cars and if you get creative, you can get around the big bumper styling they got stuck with. One of the best looking cars are the '76/'77 Olds 442's.
glad I'm not the only weird guy that like these cars...
the '73 Grand Am, the '73 Chevelle, the '76 Laguna, any 442, and the '73 GTO all have great lines.

[Later-A-body]

After a few delays, I was able to remove the old frame, and install the new frame under the Grand Am. I was fortunate enough to bribe 8 of my friends and neighbors with free beer and Subway for lunch. It went off without any issues. I had some concerns that the crossmember mounts that are built into the boxed frame area would interfere with the body, but they just cleared enough. Here are some pictures of the frame being removed.

683046830568306

[Later-A-body]

Here are some pictures of the new frame going in. To make it a lot easier, we strapped the front end of the body and used the engine hoist to raise the front end. This allowed more people to concentrate on the rear of the body. My buddy brought his very tall jack stands, and we lifted the body up and installed long metal beams underneath the rear section. To make it easier than lifting the whole body as a unit, we removed the tires and wheels, laid some towels on the ground, and rolled the car on the brake rotors under the body. We did have to manually lift the body just enough to get the frame to clear the low points on the floorpan, but with eight guys it was pretty easy. Total time was about two hours to pull it off.

683076830868309683106831168312

[Later-A-body]

After getting the frame in, we were able to get the LS7 installed. So now I will be concentrating on wiring and other things.

[sr73bu]

Looks awesome! Love the Pontiac blue ls!

-Sean

[Ravenworks]

Absolutely coolest PT car I've seen in a while! And I'll never whine about limited garage space again!!! WOW!

[Later-A-body]

Thanks for the comments. I am excited to finally see some major progress on this.

[Bigblue73]

very cool build. I'm digging the Pontiac Blue. Nice touch.

[compos mentis]

Awesome progress Sean. :twothumbs

[bonecrrusher]

Never thought rolling a chassis on the rotors - but hell they are round and spin!

Nice!

[Later-A-body]

Yeah, it was either that or we would need to lift the whole body as a unit which I was trying to minimize. It gave us just enough room to roll under the floorpan.

[LeighP]

Very nice! Love the engine detailing.

[coolwelder62]

Very Cool.

[Later-A-body]

I have not posted any new information in quite awhile. I have had some issues with the build over the last few months and thought I would post it. Long story short, the LS motors sit higher in the chassis than the Pontiac V8. The crankshaft centerline is higher. This has a direct effect on the transmission position in relation to the floor. After putting the drivetrain in, I realized the transmission would not clear the tunnel. I had to cut back the tunnel from the front of the trans, to behind the shifter where the driveshaft yolk is located. The angle of the drivetrain is limited to about 4 degrees unless you want to cut the entire floor out. So now that I finished this part, can finally install the drivetrain permanently. I will post some new photos then.

[andrewb70]

I have not posted any new information in quite awhile. I have had some issues with the build over the last few months and thought I would post it. Long story short, the LS motors sit higher in the chassis than the Pontiac V8. The crankshaft centerline is higher. This has a direct effect on the transmission position in relation to the floor. After putting the drivetrain in, I realized the transmission would not clear the tunnel. I had to cut back the tunnel from the front of the trans, to behind the shifter where the driveshaft yolk is located. The angle of the drivetrain is limited to about 4 degrees unless you want to cut the entire floor out. So now that I finished this part, can finally install the drivetrain permanently. I will post some new photos then.

Are you going to have a problem with driveline operating angles?

Andrew

[gearheads78]

I am usually a snob when it comes to 73-77's but everything about this a is soo cool. You have converted me. HAHA

[Later-A-body]

Andrew: I spoke with a few people regarding the driveline angle. The factory angles are usually between 3-5 degrees. The driveline shop that will be building my driveshat is happy with 3-5 as well. I do have adjustable rear upper control arms as well to help get everything dialed in.

Gearhead: I am glad I have made some people believers in the '73-'77 cars.

[fastfail]

Awesome build man, good job.

[andrewb70]

Andrew: I spoke with a few people regarding the driveline angle. The factory angles are usually between 3-5 degrees. The driveline shop that will be building my driveshat is happy with 3-5 as well. I do have adjustable rear upper control arms as well to help get everything dialed in.


I my experience, 3 degrees should be the absolute maximum if you want to have smooth highway operation. Here is a good tech bulletin from Mark Williams:

http://www.markwilliams.com/servicebull/sb0049.pdf

Andrew

[Motown 454]

Its looking great nice progress.

[snopro]

Love how you went with the pontiac blue rocker covers and intake.

[driveit]

Just wanted to say that I love the build and as a fellow G3 owner I am glad to see such a fine example as this. keep up the good work!

77108

[Later-A-body]

Thank you for the compliment. I am in the middle of fabricating multiple areas of the car including the core support/radiator shroud, floorpan tunnel and remote coil mounts. I am going to be posting updates and photos in a few weeks.

[Later-A-body]

Since I have started to make some progress on the remaining parts of the build, I wanted to post some new information. I have been busy with fabrication on the new MK VIII fan installation and custom intake tube. Up to this point I had been running a Taurus 16" electric fan. It was installed the 466 Pontiac motor and worked very well. The nice thing about that fan was that it fit inside the factory shroud. When I started mocking up the LS7 and radiator, I realized there was no room to run the factory fan shroud due to the forward position of the throttle body. This made it necessary to eliminate the factory shroud. Since it was going to be necessary to remove the shroud, this allowed me to have an excuse to remove a perfectly good electric fan, and swap to the 18" MK VIII Lincoln fan I had in the garage. My radiator is huge, and the Taurus fan looked pretty small. So I modified the Lincoln fan by removing the ears. Custom aluminum brackets were fabbed up to mount the radiator to the core support, and fan to the radiator. As you can see I still have a lot of room on the radiator. I think this fan will be overkill, but if any area of the car should have overkill built in, this is it. The next thing to do is build a new custom fan shroud to cover the top of the radiator. The radiator had to sit at a forward angle when the factory fan shroud was installed, so I decided to reposition the radiator in relation to the core support and built some new mounting brackets to mount it a little further back. I will remove the fan in order to sand down the modified areas and paint the entire assembly for a cleaner look. I will be running this as a 2 speed fan.
799727997379971

[Later-A-body]

My other area of concentration on the swap has been the intake tube. A few months ago I picked up some various 4" aluminum tubing in strait, 45* and 90* bends at the local swap meet. Total cost I think was about $60.00. I started positioning everything to see just how I would be able to fab this system up. I originally wanted to buy an aftermarket intake kit with a box and modify it for a cleaner factory look, but I quickly realized there was not going to be enough room. So I started cutting back the tubes to get the correct length needed. I am positioning this on the passenger side area between the inner federwell and core support in order to get as much fresh air as possible. Once the intake is mounted I will be fabricating up a heat shield in order to insulate it from the underhood heat. I contacted Spectre Performance to discuss the engine specs to get a recommendation on a proper sized filter. I am working with Guy over the phone. I want to say that I have received terrific customer support from him. He has helped me with all the details of building a "CORRECT" intake for this engine. After explaining the size of the motor, and the intended use of the car he gave me some part numbers to look at. I purchased their HPR 9892B filter. This is a big filter. It is 7" tall with a 6" opening that you use an offset velocity stack adapter in order to run the 4" tube. Really nice parts. Since the velocity stack is offset, you can fine tune the position of the filter. I also bought their 4" coupler which I like because it looks just like a factory part, and has an accordion feature to allow some movement. So after fine tuning all the lengths, it was only necessary to have one 45* bend in the system to position the intake where I wanted it. I have the GM mass air sensor and mounting kit that will be welded into the tube based on Guy's recommendation regarding clocking position. I will need to weld a tab on the lower part of the tube to mount it somewhere to eliminate any flexing. I plan to powdercoat the tube in wrinkle finish black to get that factory look to it.

79988799897999079991

[73z-6sp]

I LOVE this car! Any chance you could post some full pics of the car? Some day I wanna do the same to my 73 Lemans SC. Help me dream!

[Dragonsnake]

Ohh..you are doing it serious!!.You will have a really great car there,as the weight on the front tires,will be alot less than on mine :).Have you had time to gettin some kind of weight on it?.As..how much does it weigh as is?

[noob5,000,000]

Very nice! I love the cleanliness and attention to detail. I look forward to seeing the rest of the build, subscribed :headbang:.

[Later-A-body]

I missed the last few posts. Thanks for the nice comments guy's. Regarding the original weight of the GA, on a scale it was exactly 4000 pounds dry with the original 455 installed. The front was 2150 lbs., rear was 1850 lbs. I am hoping to drop 200 lbs. off the front with the LS7 installed. This would get me very close to a 50/50 weight distribution. As for the attention to detail, this is what is making the build last longer. I have to stay true to the level of build quality I expect from myself, but on a real man's budget it takes longer.

[Later-A-body]

One development that has occurred that has gotten me more motivated is that both me and my father have been able to get confirmation of being entered in next year's Hot August Nights. I have been wanting to do that for a while now and I am real excited about being able to go with my dad. We just started to restore his '65 GTO that he bought a few months ago. The GTO is a full resto with the frame coming out this week for powder coat. So the plan is to get both cars finished ASAP and go to events together. I may start a build thread for the GTO on PT.

[subtlez28]

Great build! I subscribed.

I was really excited to see the GW long travel front coil over set up. However, the fact that the GW upper control arms I have in boxes will not work with them kinda bums me out.

My project has kinda stalled with some others jumping ahead of it in line. You did answer some questions I had about body bushings (not an easy find for me either) and if the B-body tank would work.

I'm hoping to get back to my swap next year. Maybe add a 73 Buick to the PT scene!

[Later-A-body]

I finally got help figuring out how to use Dropbox to post my pictures. Here are the completed pictures of my intake system. I had it powder coated wrinkle black to give it a more stock factory look. There is a tab built into the far end of the tube to allow a bracket to connect to the tube to the inner fender so it will be more rigidly mounted and eliminate any movement.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8mv9f6u83txgh67/2013-10-01%2019.24.12.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iasx3sj720v3ymt/2013-10-01%2019.23.57.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hdbbvpdheml47s/2013-09-27%2022.18.23.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/wm1ir0djr1p3q9q/2013-09-27%2022.17.36.jpg

[Later-A-body]

This is one of the other projects that has been taking up my time. Since I know that I will be running this car at autocrosses and road courses from time to time, I felt it would be smart to incorporate a power steering cooler in the system now, rather than later. I purchased a nice Earls unit, and found an area in front of the core support to mount it. I am using -6 lines to connect it, and it will be part of the hydraboost system that I had before I swapped in the LS7. The tank is a Moroso aluminum unit that I had modified with two extra -6 ports to connect to the hydraboost. I powder coated this wrinkle black as well to keep it looking stock.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f7887hbklzp32il/2013-10-01%2019.51.40.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/h3kpf8yb2zao7an/2013-10-01%2019.52.25.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b8l6ffatkbblf3t/2013-10-01%2019.24.57.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l7r996pqidfx2ms/2013-10-01%2019.24.34.jpg

[57surfer50]

The first "good" car I had was a 73 GA 400 4 speed, bought in 75 when I was 18. Always liked that car and would love to have another! Just found this build, have not read all the way through yet, but was so excited to see the project and car, just had to comment! What I have seen so far looks very cool! Have thought about a PT Grand Am for a couple of years, because they are different and lend themselves to the Pro Touring theme! Guess I have to finish the 71 Monte first and move on to GA! Keep the updates coming!

[ent72olds]

The wrinkle black looks incredible! I will be stealing that idea for sure !

[Later-A-body]

I have not posted in a while, so here are some updates. After getting the intake tube finished I moved on to the upper radiator hose. I tried at least a dozen hoses, but had no luck finding one that would fit. So it was time to fabricate an aluminum one. I purchased some 1 3/4" ID tubing for the tube. I plan to powdercoat the tube in the same wrinkle finish black as the other components shown. I also am using silicone couplers for each end that connects to the radiator.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/1p82pi25nrvlghe/pU3uK3Tegf
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/kve96rlal0igy23/6Ws6r8TmdU
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/7h5qtcwezpkfulk/wTKbjv2Wgy

[Later-A-body]

After installing the LS7, it was clear to me that the existing wiring harness was not going to work. after modifying the original in the past to work with EFI, electric fuel pump, electric fans, etc., I decided to start fresh with a new harness. The idea of doing wiring is something I don't take lightly. I never really liked doing electrical, so it is a big deal to me to not screw it up. I decided to go with American Autowire. I heard a lot of positive feedback on them. . They do not make a replacement kit for my generation A-body so I purchased thier Highway 22 kit. The instructions are pretty straight forward. I recruited my father to help me since he has more experience with wiring. I also decided to install the panel in the trunk to make it a much cleaner install, and it makes it easy to get to if a fuse blows. I did have to purchase AAW's trunk mount kit that gives you larger gauge and longer wires. It took me most of the day to pull out every wire in the car. The only wires I am not pulling are the rear tail light harness because they are in perfect condition and will just splice into them with a weatherpack connection.
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/pdvfk15eytjdbwe/ZQDGuV5L7o
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/2u0d7v507p3jvul/TUUDZi-T8F

[Later-A-body]

After pulling out the wires. This is not even close to the amount that came out of the car.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/aphsrnhgj6e7sj2/ST4HON3nwR

[Later-A-body]

We laid it all out on a work table and just followed the instructions. I am going system by system. the gauges cant be wired now because they are out at Redline Gauge Works being modified to work with the E38 ECU for the LS7. So far it has been relatively easy. I did have to call AAW a few times, and they talked me through it. Good customer support. One very cool thing is they include a brand new headlight switch which I was able to modify and install in the car to replace the original. After removing the factory bracket from my original, I had to grind down part of the new switches base in order to get the bracket to fit. The new switch is an exact duplicate of my old switch and it accepts the original knob as well.

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/vuff9oydswvkrgc/NrGtpoK3hK
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/l7iiodm3u967ocp/MpwOVz4dky
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/xa1rohibiceqbok/cGdiOgcPl-
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0gy8sd3r0slqqpu/VAl3HQEpN0

[andrewb70]

Does the AAW harness have an original style bulkhead fitting? If not, how do you plan to make that work?

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Unlike other AAW kits specific to model years, this kit does not come with an original bulkhead. I will build a cover that will install over the original opening in the firewall, and use that area to locate other items I need to mount.

[Later-A-body]

Error. Disregard.

[Later-A-body]

While I am still working on the chassis wiring, I decided that I wanted a new box for my trunk mounted battery. I sketched out a design and had a friend of mine fabricate this up for me. I wanted to package all the components in one place, and have a nice clean design that incorporates the remote solenoid, the mega fuse panel that AAW provides, and a covered area for the fuse panel. This is what we came up with. All the wires to the fuse panel will be run nicely into the seperate box up to the the main panel. To finish it off I will be sending out to have it powder coated wrinkle finish black like many of the other parts I have powder coated.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yp4hi5n2i4mcniv/2014-02-02%2014.31.30.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iw0xyv8s91mq2ma/2014-02-02%2014.32.57.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o2hpq738wgxjmuv/2014-02-02%2014.34.18.jpg

[tommycomfort]

While I am still working on the chassis wiring, I decided that I wanted a new box for my trunk mounted battery. I sketched out a design and had a friend of mine fabricate this up for me. I wanted to package all the components in one place, and have a nice clean design that incorporates the remote solenoid, the mega fuse panel that AAW provides, and a covered area for the fuse panel. This is what we came up with. All the wires to the fuse panel will be run nicely into the seperate box up to the the main panel. To finish it off I will be sending out to have it powder coated wrinkle finish black like many of the other parts I have powder coated.

I like it, simple, functions well and nice and clean!

[compos mentis]

Nice looking box Sean. :twothumbs

Enjoying the updates.

[Later-A-body]

Thanks guys. Now if I could just get some extra time to get this thing running.

[73GA]

Hey Sean, time for an update! What's happening there??? Some pics would be great as well. Thanks Buddy!

[Later-A-body]

OK, I need to update the build. I have been busy with the electrical system. Finally got the harness installed and properly routed neatly. I am in the process of cutting back the harness to proper length and test fitting it to the AAW panel installed in the trunk. I have to test all the circuits first, and then after I think it's ready to install I need to get the new battery box powder coated before I can mount it to the floor and hook all the wires into the panel for the last time. I am re-doing the battery cables as well so it all looks neat and tidy. Moving into the interior, I decided to go ahead and send out my front seats to the upholstery shop. I can't recall if I mentioned that I am installing a completely new interior in the car. I had picked up a complete set of front and rear seats from a 2002 Acura CL coupe a few years ago for a great price. I wanted some well fitting seats that are more supportive and have excellent side bolstering. They also have power and heat to both seats. The fit very well into the cabin, and are not out of place in the car. The back seat from the Acura is almost a perfect fit, and looks great in the car. I am turning the rear cabin into a two seater. The design theme on the interior is something special that I dreamed up a few years ago that I will hold off on going into detail on at this point. When the seats are finished and installed, I will post pictures which will make it clear the direction I went on the build.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lnddydf5yjdyeuo/2014-02-28%2012.50.38.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m6fko5yj6upds3s/2014-02-28%2012.49.55.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/so35ixs9wbub0o8/DSCF3443.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1roi3vlmgpz1qrn/DSCF3440.JPG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9cdqpcb2oqy8gt/DSCF3437.JPG

[Munssey]

Looking good, sir! Clean build so far =)

[Later-A-body]

Well I am in the final stretch on the car. I have planned a date of March 30th to fire the motor for the first time. I received my gauge panel back from Redline Gauge Works this week. They reworked the oil and water gauges with all new VDO movements to work with the LS. The speedometer was also redone with a digital trip odometer, LED warning lights, and a 200 MPH display. The entire panel lighting was rearranged so that I would be able to have great lighting. I reinstalled the gauges and the dash panel today. See pictures. Part of the Redline package included sending units for the oil and water gauges. I will need to purchase a VSS hook up for the speedometer that works with the Tremec. I primed the motor today with the X-Prime kit I purchased. Most of the electrical system is completed, and I will be testing the circuits tomorrow.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkc27n24tuntnj3/2014-03-14%2014.32.06.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/52able61ulqiqep/2014-03-15%2012.12.41.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lajo2oxkx61a28w/2014-03-22%2018.21.05.jpg

[Later-A-body]

After 2.5 years of plugging away at this project, the LS7 is now running. I have been working on this non stop the last few weeks in order to get the engine started. All of the little things such as chassis/body/engine grounds, fuel system, wiring, etc were finally finished. I had my fingers crossed when I turned the key, but it did not disappoint me. Other than a minor fuel leak, everything worked perfect. I don't have the fan powered up yet but it only got up to about 190* after letting it run for 5 minutes or so. Oil pressure is fantastic. For anyone that has not read through my build, this is an ERL shortblock with 4.130" bore, 4.0" stroke, with Brodix BR7 cylinder heads ported by Dr. J's Performance. Cam is a custom grind from Geoff at EPS, specs are .631-.640, 226/242, LSA 115+3. Ported LS7 intake, 90mm GM TB DBW, Speartech harness. The video is with open headers and dual 3" cats only. Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ig0um9di5c9y6j/20140420_130258.mp4[/B]

[andrewb70]

After 2.5 years of plugging away at this project, the LS7 is now running. I have been working on this non stop the last few weeks in order to get the engine started. All of the little things such as chassis/body/engine grounds, fuel system, wiring, etc were finally finished. I had my fingers crossed when I turned the key, but it did not disappoint me. Other than a minor fuel leak, everything worked perfect. I don't have the fan powered up yet but it only got up to about 190* after letting it run for 5 minutes or so. Oil pressure is fantastic. For anyone that has not read through my build, this is an ERL shortblock with 4.130" bore, 4.0" stroke, with Brodix BR7 cylinder heads ported by Dr. J's Performance. Cam is a custom grind from Geoff at EPS, specs are .631-.640, 226/242, LCA 115+3. Ported LS7 intake, 90mm GM TB DBW, Speartech harness. The video is with open headers and dual 3" cats only. Thanks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0ig0um9di5c9y6j/20140420_130258.mp4[/B]

Sounds great. What an exciting time!

Andrew

[tommycomfort]

"Exciting time" are the exact words that came to mind!

[Later-A-body]

Yes I am excited to finally be at this point. The to do list still is long but I plan to have the exhaust re-worked and installed, power up the fan, bleed the clutch and brake system over the next week or so, and at least be able to putt putt around the block.

[compos mentis]

Congrats on the progress Sean. :twothumbs

You're giving hope to chunky A-body owners round the world.

:attn:

[driveit]

Just found your build after you posted on mine. I had read through this before, but you had made some updates since I last found it. This car is awesome. You have done so much that I would love to do. I am thinking the same thing with my car. It will be a daily driver, but may see some track time if I ever get the chance. I am mostly in the planning stage for everything right now as I have to much else going on, but will take any chance I get to spend a few minutes working on my 74 Chevelle. Thanks for posting and don't be shy on the photos! Btw, any tips you may have for me would be greatly appreciated!

[Later-A-body]

I would be happy to help out on any questions you have on your Chevelle build. I will hopefully be able to post some pictures and updates on the GA soon.

[driveit]

Do you have any tips for building a frame for me. I have spare that I plan to clean and try to beef up a bit. It will be a daily driver/pro-touring themed car. I have only basic hand tools, grinder, sander and such. I have access to a wire welder from time to time, but don't have any pipe benders or anything like that. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and God bless,
Chris

[Later-A-body]

The best advice I could give is to seek out a reputable chassis builder in your area and discuss with them a plan for the frame. I had my work done by Rob at No Limit Engineering, which is one of the PT sponsors. I explained to Rob that I wanted to increase the overall stiffness of the frame to do autocrossing. Since you have a second frame, you can take your time and figure out exactly what to do. There are many different ways to improve the frame, but I would imagine that each builder has their own preferences as to how to accomplish this. One thing you should consider is closing up the C-channel on each side of the frame. This will require a new transmission crossmember though, which I now have. The front framerails on my project were tied together with large 2" tubing. The rear was also reinforced....see the pictures earlier on the site. I dont think you should be required to spend big money on this, but you should have it done by a professional. The frame will need to be measured for any imperfections such as twist, sway, diamond, etc. prior to any modifications. Realistically, it will most likely cost at least $1,000.00 to get the work done, but when compared to an aftermarket frame, that is worth the investment. I hope this helps some.

[driveit]

Thanks. At least I have somewhere to start now. Do you think cleaning it and priming it would be ok to do before sending it to the frame shop? I would be ok with re-priming or whatever if it was scuffed up or whatever while there.

[Later-A-body]

Unless it's really dirty or is covered in surface rust, I would leave it alone until after the shop finishes the work. Since you will only get one shot at having the frame out, you should just go ahead and powder coat the frame once the work is complete. This will add a good amount of value to the project, and elevate your cars overall build quality to the next level. One other great thing about having a second chassis is that you can build the entire rolling chassis, suspension, brakes, etc. while it's all exposed like I did with the GA. Then when you are ready, you can remove the body from the old frame, and place it on the brand new one. I'm not sure what your time frame is on the car, but at least you can take your time to plan out what parts you want to use and take your time to do it right. One other step do consider is having the entire frame re-welded. I had this done. The factory welds are sometimes not well executed and incomplete. This alone will add some durability.

[driveit]

Thanks. I plan to clean it and reweld anything that looks like it needs it. This won't be a serious autocross car, so I am not worried about perfection. I just want a really sporty feeling street car. Not worried about numbers or pounding anyone else into the ground, just the feeling I'll get when I stomp the pedal to the floor and barrel through a corner leaving nothing but a little tire and some smoke behind me. This thing will be driven in snow, rain, mud you name just like it is now. So it won't be pristine for long after finished I am sure.

If you ever bring that Pontiac to Ky you make sure and let me know. I would love a chance to see your car. it is a work of art and model for us other A body guys to strive for when working on our own.

[driveit]

I was going over your build again and I love the stance and wheel size. I saw that you posted they were Front: 18x8.5 / +16mm / 5.4" backspacing and Rear: 18x10 / -6mm / 5.25" backspacing. I was curious as to whether this would be the same back spacing I would need with a stock suspension on my car. I have had a very difficult time with this. Also I see that tire size you were using was Front: 255/45/18
Rear: 285/45/18. Are you still happy with these sizes. They look great on the car.

[V8240Z]

Sean, we met at Fontana. Did you get the car on the road? I hope to have the LS in mine in the next few months. My daughter and I were the other volunteers.

Charles

[Later-A-body]

I was going over your build again and I love the stance and wheel size. I saw that you posted they were Front: 18x8.5 / +16mm / 5.4" backspacing and Rear: 18x10 / -6mm / 5.25" backspacing. I was curious as to whether this would be the same back spacing I would need with a stock suspension on my car. I have had a very difficult time with this. Also I see that tire size you were using was Front: 255/45/18
Rear: 285/45/18. Are you still happy with these sizes. They look great on the car.

I am happy with the set up, but I am actually in the process of planning an upgrade to the wheels, or possibly selling the HRE's and having a new set built. I am moving to a 295/40/18 rear due to the fact that the 285/45 Pirelli tires are now $600 each. Nitto just released a 295/40/18 NT05. In addition, I am going to have the fronts widened to 9.5" and run a 275/40/18. I have the room for it. So I need to decide if I want to spend the money on that, or sell them and put that cash toward a new set. These are 3 piece wheels and were built for my car, so I do not use spacers. I'm sure that these, or the same offset would most likely fit your year car as well since they are almost identical.

[Later-A-body]

Sean, we met at Fontana. Did you get the car on the road? I hope to have the LS in mine in the next few months. My daughter and I were the other volunteers.

Charles

Good to hear from you again Charles. The car is running, but I'm still in the process of finishing up items like the exhaust, wiring, interior, etc.

[subtlez28]

This build really makes me want to push my 73 Buick back to the top of the project list!

Couple questions:
1- What is with this odd coupling of 73-77 A-bodies and guys named Sean (or Shaun)?

2- It was asked before, but have the 3rd gen guys found a good option for body mount bushings? I came up empty years ago. Now a couple places have them, but for ~$300! I didn't have much luck w the Performance Years site. While digging around, I saw some posts saying the 94-96 Caprice/Impala SS mounts work... I'm hesitant to run poly body bushings, but at $91 (for the SS) it beats the $300 #s.

3- I just re-read the thread. Other than the opening pic, I did not see any overall shots of the car (I could have missed one as the later photos required clicking a link). Do you have any recent overall shots to post?

Thanks
-Shaun-

[Later-A-body]

Your correct on the Sean or Shaun syndrome with these cars. Regarding the body mounts, I had purchased a NOS set a long time ago and they are still perfect. The Impala body mounts are an interesting idea because the rear frames are identical regarding suspension and frame dimensions, and you can share components. A for instance is the late model plastic EFI gas tank is installed in my car. The rear suspension arms are the same as well, so maybe the mounts would be an alternative. I won't have any decent new pictures of the car until I can get it out of the garage. Here are some older ones. The front end is sitting up a little high which will not be the case now with the coil overs.
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[driveit]

Mounts can be bought from The parts place. I was told to talk to Van there as he was very knowledgeable about 73-77 GM cars. I don't know about the price.

[driveit]

Nice pics. Let me know if you decide to let the wheels go. I am not sure that I could afford them, but I am interested if you decide to go that route.

[Later-A-body]

Since it has been a few weeks since I updated the build site I thought I would post some new information. I have been working on some minor items such as the DBW pedal assembly, hydraulic clutch hard line installation which are both completed. The DBW is from the Corvette drive assembly I purchased. It was not even close to working with my pedal positioning needs, so a lot of fabbing and re-fabbing took place to get it placed properly. The arm had to be cut and rewelded several times with trial and error in order to position the gas pedal correctly, and allow me to heel/toe the car. I wound up installing a 1/2" spacer underneath the pedal assembly as well to get the pedal height correct. It is now exactly where it feels comfortable, and allows me to slide my shoe over to blip the throttle. The Corvette pedal has a very short travel plane, so I imagine the throttle will be a little sensitive for me at first, but will allow easier rev matching.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bhp8yelc19pkf4u/2014-08-24%2021.11.39.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z7cqyw45dy8qqo4/2014-08-24%2021.15.32.jpg?dl=0

[Later-A-body]

I also have been busy making decisions on wheels and tires. Due to the cost of new Pirelli's that I run in the car, I decided I needed to move to a less expensive tire, while also increasing the size in both the front and rear. I run a 285/45/18 rear, and that is a Pirelli only size, costing $600 each. Not going to happen. I have decided to also increase my front tires from a 255/45/18 to a 275/40/18. Up until this month, no other tires had a matching set of sizes I needed until Nitto released a 295/40/18 NT05. They are still not the overall diameter I want, but it will have to work. Last week I visited HRE Wheels in Vista, Ca. I brought both a front and rear tire/wheel with me to discuss what I can do to rework the sizes. I currently run a 18x8.5 front, and an 18x10 rear. It looks as though I will be increasing the fronts to an 18x9-9.5" to run the 275's. The great thing about HRE, is that they are sending someone to my house to re-measure the car in order to be certain everything will fit, and they are not charging me for this service. With that plan set, I went to America's Tire and ordered a new set of Nitto NT05 295/40/18 rears, and 275/40/18 fronts. I am sure this will improve the handling even further on the car, and will look terrific. I tend to like a larger sidewall look on this car, so I will most likely leave the rear wheels alone at 10" width. One thing I noticed on the 295's is the treadwear rating is 140, while the 275's are 200. So it looks like I wont be allowed to run an autocross event as a competitor. I'm a little disappointed, but that wont stop me from enjoying myself at an event.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wtmatwvqg15j3v/2014-08-26%2017.12.48.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/g2524lsktcjbcr8/2014-08-26%2017.15.42.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ay95tts60dnuy7/2012-05-19%2014.32.58.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/jraq0ma749s3k4v/2012-05-19%2014.33.05.jpg?dl=0

[subtlez28]

A touch late now I understand, but, why not run a square set up? 18x10s and 295s front and rear. I had 17x11s and 315s mocked up all around my 73 Buick at one point. The front wheel wells are HUGE.

Is your backspacing going to be dramatically different between the front and rear?

[Later-A-body]

I considered that as well. Im going to play around with the fronts and rears when the car is measured to see what is possible. As lonv as the tires remain unmounted, I can exchange sizes if needed.

[andrewb70]

Shawn,

Even if you can't easily rotate the wheels front to back, it would still be awesome to run 295s all the way around. While staggered tires may look cooler, the fact is that these old cars still understeer and having as much tire on the front as possible will minimize that. I am pretty sure that I can run 295s in the front of my GTO and I bet you can on your Grand Am as well. Your wheelwells look huge!

Andrew

[Later-A-body]

Well there has been a change in plans regarding my wheels. After going over the cost involved in re-barreling the front and rear wheels to allow for a larger tires, I decided to sell the HRE's. I have sold them to a friend of mine that also has a Grand Am that is putting the Pro-Touring vibe on his car. I received a fair price for the wheels which allows me to invest into a new set, and will allow me to run the sizes I want with the correct backspacing. After sitting down with Zack at Boze Wheels, I have decided to go with their Apex wheel. I will be stepping up to a 19" rear, while staying with an 18 front. I returned my Nitto NT05 rears that were 295/40/18, and have purchased a set of Nitto NT05 305/35/19's for the rear, and will put the 275/40/18's on the front. I have a wheel guy coming next week to measure the car to get the correct backspacing, and I will then order the new wheels. I will be going with a gloss black center like I have now. The Apex is very similar to my current set, but it has a very nice chamfered edge on each spoke which I like, and also has the exposed hardware. They are a reverse lip design which I prefer. If everything goes well with the measuring, I hope to run an 11" wheel in back and a 9.5-10" front. This car has tons of potential for tires. The picture below is for reference. That is an 18x9 they had there. I prefer the black centers on my silver car.

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[driveit]

Progress, progress... Things are looking good on your side. It will be like a new car with those new wheels. I can't wait to see it all together. I rebuilt the drums on the back of mine for now until I can find what I need to change over to discs on the rear. I have decided to go with coil overs on my car for sure as well and I am beginning to save up for that. I talked to QA1 and they said they do not have one for the rear. I know another guy that has them on the back of his, but someone made him a custom bracket. He didn't have any pics of it though. I really want the coilovers on all 4 corners to get the perfect ride height. Anyway, glad to see the progress your way!

[Later-A-body]

I can send you to Global West Suspension for the rear coil overs. They have already done the work on the '73-'77's and I am eventually going to rear coil overs myself. A few things to consider on that set up though is to make sure you are reinforcing the area surrounding the rear shock mounts. There are companies that sell these kits and would have you just bolt on the adapters and be done, but the shock mounts are not that strong and will over time ovalize or possibly fail. I had my rear shock mounts reinforced with welded steel plates in anticipatioon of using coil overs. I believe I included a picture of that in my build thread previously. The way it was described to me by Doug Nordin at GW is that the further you move the shock angle away from vertical, the greater the stress you put on the shock mount. Add that up with a 40+ year old chasis and you get the idea. I also believe theat GW includes a reinforcement bracket that spans from one side of the frame to the other for added strength. Check with them. I always trust what they do, that's why everything on my car is from GW.

[driveit]

I will do that. Thanks for the tips. btw Where did you get your disc setup?

[driveit]

I don't see their coil overs do you by any chance have a link?

[Later-A-body]

The brakes are an older Baer PBR set up. They don't sell that kit anymore. They work very well though. I don't think you will find the coil over parts on the GW site, you would need to call them. They had my frame at their shop for a few months in order to create the long travel front coil over kit I now have on the GA. It was used to prototype that kit for our years A-Body. While the car was there, they also mocked up the rear for coil overs, and I need to return the car to them after it's running to get the final dimensions sorted out in order to get the correct brackets on the rear, but I thought they had most of the work done. You might want to ask.

[driveit]

I sent them an email a few minutes ago. If they reply back I will let them know you referred me and maybe they will cut you a break next time.

[Later-A-body]

Good deal Thanks.

[driveit]

Talked with the guys at Global West today. They advised that currently there was nothing they could do for the rear coil overs as they needed a car body there first to measure for clearance issues. They did put me on a mailing list to be updated once the product becomes available. I told them that you referred me and mentioned your car. Thanks for the tips. Maybe I will get something worked sometime. Did yo get those wheels and tires on there yet?

[Later-A-body]

I guess that will be up to me as to when I can get the car to them so they can measure everything. Wheels are going to be at least a month out. I'm still in the process of determining the backspacing and if the 305's are going to clear.

[Later-A-body]

I was finally able to have the car measured for the new wheels and tires yesterday. I got back in touch with my old friend Bob who used to work for HRE in the past, and now has his own company called Modulare Wheels in Orange, Ca. Bob was the person who originally measured the car back in 2002 for the current wheels I have on the car. As a recap, I am currently running 18x8.5 front, and 18x10 rears. Over the last few years I have thought that the front especially needed more tire and wheel. With all the measurements finalized, I will be running an 18x9.5 front on a 275/40/18, and a 19x11 rear on a 305/35/19 Nitto NT05. Bob confirmed the 305 has plenty of room. The rear backspace will be 6.0" (zero offset). The best part is no fender modification required. I love the fact that the Grand Am has so much room to run these. The front is 5.5" backspacing (+6 offset). With a traditional flat face wheel I will have a minimum front lip of 3-3.5", and rear of 4.5-5". But I am now looking at the possibility of running a concave wheel? I decided not to purchase the Boze wheels. No reflection on them, they were very helpful and easy to work with. I like a lot of the styles that Modulare has, so I decided to have them build me a set. Their website is one of the best wheel sites I have been on. They have an extensive collection, and a fantastic wheel visualizer and gallery. Pricing is also reasonable considering the high quality of the product. Their at modularewheels.com.

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[andrewb70]

One of the Deep Concave wheels would look pretty nice!

Andrew