Help with identification on new vehicle

[pjku79]

I just purchased someone else's project. They had paid someone to build it for them and got screwed over, so I got it for a good price. The problem I face is I don't know how to identify what parts are currently on the car. I have read lots of posts about engine mounts, headers, steering, and oil pans. The people that previously worked on the car were idiots. First off the engine is seized up. Second the headers were beat with a hammer to make sure they didn't hit the steering and welded to the frame because of contact.

I plan to pull the engine and put another LSX in its place. Obviously I need new headers, but not knowing the engine mounts or steering system I am not sure what will fit. Can you help identify the steering, engine generation (trans says 09 15k 4wd in paint pen on it), and engine mounts? If you need to see anything else let me know.

Another side question, when purchasing another engine, if I don't want to have to change the wiring or engine controller do i have to get the exact same engine, model year, applications, etc...?

My goal is to get this baby back on the road at as minimal cost as possible.

As always thanks for your help.

[pjku79]

Here is another of the engine mount. Looks solid mounted to me, so maybe it is custom. I am going to try to get the car up in the air tonight or tomorrow so I can take some better pictures of the oil pan, steering, and excellent job of smashing the headers these people did.

[pjku79]

Anyone?

[daytonayellaz]

Some questions to help narrow it down a bit....
Is the block Iron or aluminum?
What casting number are the heads? (post a pic)
Which computer do you have? (post a pic)
What oil pan is on it? (post a pic)

If you look at the front of the block in front of the #2 Cylinder there is a casting with engine displacement.... On the Iron blocks I think its in front of the #1 cylinder..... You will have to look up under the water pump to see it and if its on the left side of the engine the power steering is in the way.... The casting will be 4.8/5.3...6.0... etc. Might be easier since you plan to pull the motor to just pull the water pump and power steering to see it. Takes about 10 minutes. There is also a casting number on the back of the block that helps narrow things down a bit.

If you want to use the existing computer and harness.... need to know if you have 24x or 58x. Can guide you better on engine choices once that is determined.

It does have truck front drive system and balancer on it with a alternator relocation bracket. Has the older coil packs, which means it has the older valve covers.... But has the newer water pump....

I dont think I have ever seen those motor mounts/stands before. You may be better off ditching those and going with some different ones..

The steering gear box appears to be the stock box. Hard to tell from your pics and you didnt mention what car this is....but looks like a 69 camaro?

Best I can do with out more information...:cheers:

[pjku79]

Finally a response. I was starting to get worried.

I started to pull things out yesterday. I wasn't sure where the casting numbers were, so I was going to wait until I got the engine out to look for them. Now that I know, I will see if I can get a picture tonight. It is a iron block and it is in a 69 firebird. What is 24x or 58x?

I can't tell for sure, but if I had to guess I would say those mount were custom.

I will also take a pic of the oil pan and computer.

[daytonayellaz]

The 24x and 58x are the tooth count on the crankshaft reluctor wheel. I can tell by your computer or by the crank sensor which you have. The crank sensor is Black for a 24x and Gray for a 58x. This sensor is right behind the starter.

[Jeff70]

The motor mounts appear to be custom made. Is it welded to the front cross member?

[pjku79]

The mounts are welded to the cross member. You can see it in the third picture down between the two hoses. Any idea how much of a vibration this would cause (being hard mounted)? I have never tried running a hard-mounted engine.

[pjku79]

Here are some pictures of the oil pan, transmission, flywheel, and engine controller. I had to work this weekend, so I didn't get a chance to remove accessories.

[pjku79]

I took some more stuff off of the engine today. Got the alternator and ps pump off and found that the engine is 4.8/5.3. I plan on removing the water pump tomorrow.

Dayton, can you tell me which generation the engine/controller is by seeing the controller?

[daytonayellaz]

Its a 24x computer. So it can be as old as 1999 -2005 The 4.8 and the 5.3 share the same block. There is really no way to tell which it is from the outside. The 4.8 has a different stroke than the 5.3. For you...since your pulling the motor...the easiest way to tell is to pull the pan and check the casting number on the crank to see which you have. After seeing the pics of everything, I wouldnt worry about sticking with 24x system, your not really going to save much. I dont know who did the install and not trying to hurt any feelings, but I would be more inclined to pull it all out and start over. You can easily go to a 58x motor and move up to a newer package and a nicer operating system. You can do a much cleaner and nicer install. If your interested in a 08 LS2 package send me a PM and we can talk about that. Hope this helps and LMK if you need any more help,

[daytonayellaz]

Oh...and that trans looks like a older turbo 400.

[pjku79]

I am hoping to keep the price down, so I might actually stick with a gen III (if I can find something with low mileage). I will likely switch to at least a 4l80 trans though.

I knew this car wasn't perfect. I kinda of expected some issues with it. I will probably relocated the engine controller to a different location so I can install a vintage air kit (I live in San Antonio, TX). Other then that I am looking for more of a driver then show car and we don't get much rain down here so fuel economy is more important then HP.

[68Formula]

Other than the 800 Saginaw box (used since the past several decades) they could have bolted in a 600 box. If you look up those two types, you'll see it resembles an 800 box.

If you're planning on replacing the headers anyway, buy a set thats works with the box along with the correct engine mounts as a kit, so there's no question of fitment. Or if you want to see if you can save money, buy the headers, check the fit with your current mounts, and if that doesn't work, buy the matching mounts.

[pjku79]

When you say 800 Saginaw box are you talking steering? If so how to I identify it?

[pjku79]

Ok I just googled Saginaw steering boxes. It sounds like there were a few options, but the 69 firebird would have come with a quick steer option.

As for the mounts, since I dont have the original mounts, how hard would it be to get the portion that attaches to the subframe? Is this originally bolt-on or weld on? I looked yesterday and noticed there is one hole that is still there, but the others must of been welded over. If I go back to the original mount with someone else's plate to mount to the LS block, how would I guarantee to get it in the correct location in the first place? All of the mounts I have found seem to attach to the original mount. Are there others out there that attach right to the subframe?

I was planning on going the way of ordering some headers to see if they would fit, but I am open to opinions. I was leaning towards Dynatech from just eyeballing pictures. I can tell you the mounts I have, have the engine pretty much as far back as it will go (if that helps with header selection).

[daytonayellaz]

Just get some stock 69 camaro SBC frame stands. They bolt to the subframe with 3 bolts each. You say you see one hole....when those fabed stands are removed you will likely see one or both the other holes, shouldnt be to hard to figure out. Then you can use motor mounts of your choice for a 69 Camaro SBC. Now you can get the adapter plates and headers for the above. Dynatech is a great header for these cars.

[pjku79]

Great thanks. I will likely start a semi build thread with all of this info as soon as I figure out my plan.

[pjku79]

OK, it took me a month, but I finally got around to pulling the engine. I don't know what I was thinking trying to get the engine and trans out together but that is beside the point.

Is there some where I can look to find out if I have a 5.3 or a 4.8? If the stamping tells anything, it is 2567393. Also the heads said D149. As always thanks for your help.

I was talking to one of the engine builders at work last week and found out he just got done rebuilding a 4.8, so I guess I'll buy that from him if that is in deed what I have.

[garys 68]

4.8s are a dime a dozen. You can probably buy a used motor for a couple hundred.

[eroc022]

looks like you are running a truck motor.... with car intake.... at least my guess from the truck pan/front accessories, and prob cheaper price.... an older th400 transmission.... best guess would be an 08 4x4 1/2 ton truck.... if the flywheel is original to the motor.... if not... best guess is still up there..

[pjku79]

OK, but is there a way to tell if it is a 5.3 or a 4.8. I need to know because I would prefer to not have to replace or reflash the controller.

[pjku79]

Here is what I found on an offroad site. This means I have to pull the pan though. Still hoping there is a decoder for the block stamping.

Alright, since nobody can tell, by looking at it, does anybody know where the casting number is located on the crank? Might go back and have 'em pull the pan, since it looks like even a head casting number might be useless.

12552215...364.......cast....medium journal...3.62" stroke, Gen. III, 6.0L
12552216...325,350,364.......cast....medium journal...3.62" stroke, Gen. III 5.7L LS1, 5.3L, 6.0L
12553312...293.......cast....medium journal, 3.27" stroke, Gen. III, 4.8L
12553482...293.......cast....medium journal, 3.27" stroke, Gen. III, 4.8L

[eroc022]

its on the block, if you are going to pull the oil pan, save yourself the time and pull off your accessoriess... itll be on the block

[pjku79]

The block only says 5.3/4.8. It doesn't differentiate between the two. Anyways, I checked the stoke yesterday and it was about 3 5/8" which means its a 5.3L.

[pjku79]

The block only says 5.3/4.8. It doesn't differentiate between the two. Anyways, I checked the stoke yesterday and it was about 3 5/8" which means its a 5.3L.

[andrewb70]

Is the slip yoke bolted to the transmission output shaft?

Andrew