taking credit for other's work

[Dave Maxwell]

Is it just me or do others get sick of seeing people take credit for others work.

[dontlifttoshift]

Not sure of your specific situation but it happens all the time. Shops start cars and for various reasons they get finished at another shop and the first shop never gets credit.

On a personal note I overheard a guy telling another guy at a cruise night how hard it was to build the headers and sidepipes on GS corvette replica......I built them. we also did a ton of work on a Lincoln Futura clone, it's a one of a kind. When I saw the new owner on another forum I contacted him to find out how the car was and if there was anything I could do to help. He told me I was not being truthful because the guy he bought it from (a classic car broker) did all the work.

I know what I did, sometimes that's all that matters.

Donny

[Dave Maxwell]

Good point. This situation is a local guy taking credit for a build and getting the recognition and other guys did the work for him. I know all involved. Just gets old. Had it happen to me years ago. I just laughed and said wow you did a good job. He later found out that I was the one who built it. Im starting my new shop and will be doing everything except seats.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Most definitely...and I see it every day. The only thing worse is getting "credit" for substandard work done by the owner, or some other shop, on parts of the car I didn't touch!

[Dave Maxwell]

Getting credit for others mistakes definitely would be worse. I'll just laugh when I see it in the mags. Just a pet peeve. I bust my ass and then watch someonelse with the hook ups get recognition for the others work. You've probably seen vehicle in question, but I don't want to get that pot stirring publicly.

[dontlifttoshift]

Bulldawg, I forgot about that one. The unwanted credit....it's actually WAY worse than not getting credit for great work.

[Dave Maxwell]

Im sure I will get over it. I just will laugh when people say did you see the truck so and so built.

[rfalker1]

However I feel shops who do (did) substantial jobs should not get credit for anything, if you have to go in a replace everything they did.
Basically I sent my car to shop and they did a half ass job, they messed up my rs headlights by mountiong them deep enough
replace a speedo cable
fixed some speaker wholes for the 6x9
tucked the carpet
and did the interior window stripping
realigned a window
and attempted to mount a tach.
All for 2200.
And me a my mechanic went behind them and re-did everything. I hope my car makes it into magazine so I can give all the credit to my friend and mechanic who did it all (with the help of my sound guy) and put a little excerpt that speaker holes, the speedo cable and inside window stripping was done by this company and alignment of a window.

I hope, only because they screwed my lights up!!!!!!

[Rod]

happens alot, but you can tell 90% of the time when you're looking over the car/work and you hear them say how hard this or that was! really? building a car is hard, all of it not just the header because you had to spend 2 hours re-tightening that header bolt next to the brake booster and behind the tube with one 1 inch of swing (good for you) you turned a bolt, HELL the damn head liner is hard to get right also!!!! so what? every thing is hard if its to be right!! if it was easy everyone would do it, and we all really know what bolt on means!! builders don't tell you how hard it was, I personally like to see if lookers notice the little details that's what I enjoy as a builder......rant...rant,,,,rant... and so on

[Dave Maxwell]

Just want to say. Hey you might have helped, but I know the people who did the major part. Oh well maybe they will get it right in the mag this time. Im sure with the connections doing the work it will be in one or two. Oh well I can always say I earned my awards and what not and didn't buy them. Going to take something to sema next year.

[rfalker1]

happens alot, but you can tell 90% of the time when you're looking over the car/work and you hear them say how hard this or that was! really? building a car is hard, all of it not just the header because you had to spend 2 hours re-tightening that header bolt next to the brake booster and behind the tube with one 1 inch of swing (good for you) you turned a bolt, HELL the damn head liner is hard to get right also!!!! so what? every thing is hard if its to be right!! if it was easy everyone would do it, and we all really know what bolt on means!! builders don't tell you how hard it was, I personally like to see if lookers notice the little details that's what I enjoy as a builder......rant...rant,,,,rant... and so on

Thank Rod, this thread just sent me on a rant on google!!, thank god you can leave reviews. But I agree with you fully, so what it is hard. WHen I worked on my car it was difficult, but it was the first time I worked on a car, it should have been difficult. But if I am paying you 80 dollars an hour I expect your technician to be experienced in "difficult situations, and if its too difficult call me, especially if there is something to buy to make life simpler for you and cheaper for me. Problem is with the price of labor, you can get new parts instead paying for that laborer to figure out what to do that would help the parts you already received go in easier. Thats where communication comes in, especially if they don't have the full green light to rip your car to pieces and price is an after thought

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Those are some really good points, Randal...especially on the replacing a part vs repairing/restoring it. I think a lot of the problem is with newer builders, that are used to taking as much time as they need on their own projects, and can't wrap their heads around the idea of replacing a part that costs $100 rather than billing 4 hours to repair it. Communication is key, and anything having to do with cost is something that I get cleared up immediately. This protects both the builder and the customer.

[andrewb70]

Is it just me or do others get sick of seeing people take credit for others work.

Document all the work that you do with many pictures. Nothing serves better for evidence than a photograph.

From a consumer standpoint, they have no obligation to divulge who actually performed the work. Think about the construction industry. The general contractor gets all the credit (and discredit) for a given house that they build. But we all know that dozens of sub-contractors are involved in the work. The same is true for building a car. Most people do some work and act as general contractors.

The point is that if you want to show what your shop is capable of doing it is your responsibility to document all the work and share it with perspective customers, be it via a nice album that you keep in the office or your website.

Andrew

[parsonsj]

From a consumer standpoint, they have no obligation to divulge who actually performed the work. Think about the construction industry. The general contractor gets all the credit (and discredit) for a given house that they build. But we all know that dozens of sub-contractors are involved in the work. The same is true for building a car. Most people do some work and act as general contractors. Agreed. Most complex things in current society follow that basic model. GM gets all the credit/blame for their cars, but we all know they mostly just assemble the car. The bulk of the actual manufacturing is done by hundreds of subcontractors all over the world.

To the OP: those guys know who did the work. You'll have to live with knowing that. :)

[andrewb70]

....Most complex things in current society follow that basic model. .....

Exactly!!! There is a very good reason for this and it is based on the principle of the division of labor. When people specialize in a particular task they generally become more efficient.

GM focuses on assembly and marketing. Apple focuses on marketing and design. Very few companies do everything in-house. Building cars for a hobby is no different.

Andrew

[Tony_SS]

The term 'Builder' should used very loosely when referring to cars.....

As already mentioned, it's such a joint effort.... I don't think there are many out there who do the whole thing on their own...

Often times, the guy who designed the look of the car gets the shaft as just some lowly chum who 'drew a rendering' and then the "builder" gets the kudo's for contracting and assembly. Granted it takes skill to choose the best labor and parts, but still, he is taking credit for someone else's visual design of the car.

[John Wright]

I know all too well, I am a QC for a Structural Steel fabricator and the GC will get credit for the buildings we do....and we actually Do/Perform the "building/fabricating" of said building, others merely hang/assemble our product, and then more folks hang more stuff off our product and then cover it all up with brick or siding of some sort. All of the design, detailing, fabricating, scheduling and perfect fit up in the field is quickly forgotten and covered up while the GC gets to propose a toast to the owner of the building while the last beam is being placed and signed during the topping off party.

[Dave Maxwell]

Luckily im not in this situation. Very good points. In this case I know the artist who did the rendering, the person who does the metal work, fabrication, paint. This guy gets the credit and recognition. I have an open relationship with customers to an extent. For input and cost. They get involved when a part is found to be beyond salvage. Fix or replace is there final call as long as it doesn't cost the build to lose quality. I wont skimp on that. Its my rep that I wont destroy

[NJSPEEDER]

Most of the time when you hear the "I built....." for a regular guy or a broker the only thing they actually built was the balance in the checking account that paid for it. I know there are some talented guys around here that do some great work on their own, but I am sure most of you know that you are more the exception than the rule in modern car building.

-Tim

[rfalker1]

Most of the time when you hear the "I built....." for a regular guy or a broker the only thing they actually built was the balance in the checking account that paid for it. I know there are some talented guys around here that do some great work on their own, but I am sure most of you know that you are more the exception than the rule in modern car building.

-Tim

Agreed!!! luckily I found a Gem!!! And i get to give him tax free dollars, I get pictures all the time and get to have great conversations about cars etc. I found a friend in my mechanic. Happy Day for me!!!! But because I know people say I built all the time, I am will make sure he gets the credit!!!!!

[BulldawgMusclecars]

The term 'Builder' should used very loosely when referring to cars.....

As already mentioned, it's such a joint effort.... I don't think there are many out there who do the whole thing on their own...

Often times, the guy who designed the look of the car gets the shaft as just some lowly chum who 'drew a rendering' and then the "builder" gets the kudo's for contracting and assembly. Granted it takes skill to choose the best labor and parts, but still, he is taking credit for someone else's visual design of the car.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but the only subcontracting in my shop is for building engines and transmissions, and tuning on EFI stuff. I don't think there is any comparison to building trades. I doubt many of the other shops here subcontract much of anything, because this isn't like framing a house, or slapping up drywall. Not just anybody can do it to my standards, and provide the kind of quality I require if I'm going to put my name on it. Its easier, and cheaper, to do it ourselves.

[rfrankb4]

Did you do the work for the credit? (speaking the the professional builders only)

The owner paid you to do the work and in my mind bought the right to take any credit he wants. Sure it might be an ass thing to do since it does not steer new customers to you but absent some agreement to the contrary he is under no obligation to be a rolling advertisement for your shop.

[Dave Maxwell]

My complaint is a guy saying he built this vehicle and getting in the mags saying he did it and getting props for it. He pitched in, but most of it was done by somenodyelse. If people want to claim credit for my build. Lime you said I don't have an advertising contract. I wont allow dealers to put there stickers on my new vehicles either. Fake name used. Another great build from the brainchild of Bob. Opening his shop soon. When it should read. Designed by bill, built by jon, paint and body by jack, interior by jim. Unfortunately at this time I still have to farm out seats and such. Do my own door panels and dash work. Maybe I am jealous. I bust my ass for years on a limited budget and but equipment as I can. This guy jumps in and has billy bob build for him and now he is a name. I have got better funds now, so I will have my own vehicle on display at the big shows. Got some more customers lined up from my limited advertisement. Word of mouth is good advertisement for sure

[BulldawgMusclecars]

Did you do the work for the credit? (speaking the the professional builders only)

The owner paid you to do the work and in my mind bought the right to take any credit he wants. Sure it might be an ass thing to do since it does not steer new customers to you but absent some agreement to the contrary he is under no obligation to be a rolling advertisement for your shop.

If you write a novel, do you get credit for it, as well as getting paid? Sure. A car build should be no different. There have been many instances where I cut a customer a break, with the understanding that I would accompany the vehicle to shows, business cards would be displayed, build threads posted, etc. Builders rely on interest generated from existing and past projects to get new business. Expecting to plaster my name all over a car like some used car lot is a far cry from giving credit where credit is due. I have a good ongoing relationship with 95% of the customers who have come through my door, though, and most of them send me referrals regularly, and are happy to give credit for the work we have done.

[rfrankb4]

If you build from scratch without any input from the owner then sure take what credit you feel is necessary to feel good.

However, If the owner tells you what he wants and you do it then your book example is wholly in applicable. If you design a new part that is a contribution to society patent it and make all the money you can while taking the applicable credit. Otherwise you are filling one roll in the build with others filled by the owner who supplied the vision he wanted for his car, the manufacturer from whom you will base the build, the manufacturers of all the subparts that you will use, the designer of your welder, the guy who built your shop, the company that made your wrenches.....

I will admit that for the full custom builds the line gets blurred between traditional car modification and customization and truly unique designs that are independently worthy of moral equivalent of patent or copyright protection but those are very rare (like the all billet alum cobra).

On my build I have not done everything on the car and while I have spent far more hours on it than anyone else a lot of the parts where i thought the learning curve would either take to long or potentially be too expensive I farmed out to others. So how much in your opinion should a company need to do on a car before the owner is morally obligated to give "credit" to all of the people that he paid to provide a service of work on his car? Lets say that some day my car turns out to have good brake performance to whom would you consider I be required to give credit when that comes up in a discussion? GM engineers for making the C6 brakes, and hydraboost? Hydratech for making the adapter plate? the pad company? KORE3 for the brackets? PBR for making the calipers? myself for putting them on? The guy I had flare the lines? Summit for selling me the lines?

and that is just one sub component of the car to illustrate the ridiculousness of this concept of demanding credit.

On a related side note it frustrates me how so many aftermarket parts have the companies names engraved into them. I want my car to be mine not a rolling amalgamation of various company names I have to look at or get milled off. I

[Dave Maxwell]

Take credit for your own car. That's understandable. But don't take credit for the build and try to start a shop name when you just watched. My father in law can't so anything, but the car is still his pride. He isn't trying to dupe sema or mags into believing he did it and his fake shop

[rfrankb4]

And no where did I say that the customers should not send business to the shops that did good work for them because that would be ridiculous. I only dispute the assertion that they have an obligation to list who they had do work on the car if they do not care to discuss it at the moment.

I frequently have discussions I want over quickly and thus try to avoid giving answer that will open new lines of questioning. Maybe the original guy that asked about the headers was annoying and the owner of the car was trying to keep the conversation short.

It is distinctly possible I am missing the boat here and in the wrong. While I understand the OP's frustration that the former customer did not send him new business I still do not see any express obligation that can be imposed on the customer in these type cases. No mater who did the work if the customer takes a brand new car and removed every badge he can say he made it if he wants to everyone he every talks too and it still does not change who really made the car

[Dave Maxwell]

If they choose to not mention the builder for that is up to them. I just can't stand someone trying to build a rep for a business by other people doing the work. Would be lime mags saying from the mind of chip foose and he didn't even design it or build it. Ee know the chip builds his. Just using that for reference. Im sure it would make.more sense if I could use name. I don't want that started. Like me being in a mag and saying I did it. Actually saying I did the work. In actuality I dint do it. If I build you a car and you want credit for it. Fine, just don't try to build your rep on my skill is all im saying.don't brag about skills you don't have.

[BulldawgMusclecars]

If a customer came in with a clear idea of what the car should be, what parts were needed to get it there, and exactly how he wanted it to look, I would agree...the builder shouldn't want credit for that. In that case, he is just the builder. However, I have yet to deal with a customer who had done his homework that well, and had a clear vision. Most say, " I want XXX part", and have no idea why its a good or bad idea, just that it costs $xxxx so it MUST be good! Maybe things are different for some other shops, I don't know, but in my experience the project planning, what parts are need to accomplish the goals of the build, and finishes used, etc are all on me. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to deal with customers who know their stuff, but I'd say 95% don't, and that is part of the service they are paying for. If, after all that work is done, they choose not to give the builder credit, that is one thing, but taking credit for it themselves...come on. It doesn't really matter, though, because they aren't fooling anyone. Just walk up to someone bragging on the car they "built themselves", and ask some simple question about the build. It becomes very obvious who did the work, and who didn't.

I agree wholeheartedly about manufacturers names on parts, but even worse are some of the colors used. There are many manufacturers that I will not deal with, mainly because of the garish anodized finishes they put on their parts.

[exwestracer]

NEWSFLASH...the world RUNS on bull**** nowadays.... It is what it is. You'll just get a rep as being bitchy if you press the issue. I KNOW my stuff is better than 90% of what you see in magazines, but I don't care and don't need the publicity. Many (NOT all...) customers don't know enough to know good work form bad, let alone who actually built a car... and they don't care. It's all about the T-shirt anymore.

[Tony_SS]

The point is, taking credit for something you didn't do is completely low. Working at a corporate design firm for 8 years I've seen happen a million times. Idea's were stolen all the time. Designs and concepts were ripped off by colleges and clients constantly. And if one person came up with a good concept/design, co-workers and bosses get jealous, fight for the glory only to then have the client claim credit for it too! The BS never ends.

Point of the thread - Don't be a self absorbed fraud. Have some damn integrity and respect for others.

[Dave Maxwell]

Thank you Tony. That is the point. I am not even involved with this particular build. Im just sick of this guy getting credit for stuff he didn't do. He is trying to build a shop with others work is the point. If a customer wants to take credit for my work than let them. The important people now the truth.

[grenade inspector]

Being a member of the slim minority which prefers to do it all the other side sucks as well imo, on more than one occasion (on other cars) people have asked where I got something from and I have responded with "oh that, its custom, I built it" only to get well what shop did it?

[ALLstrokedOUT]

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU MEAN NOW- with a huge helping of creeps
Wanna see what im talking about? ...something that i just found out a few hours ago: (im the last post)

http://bayarearacing.org/newforum/viewtopic.php?p=246601&sid=60d997229a91a47efca7daebbc86be18#246601

The kids claiming all of our cars as his, he mustve been taking my photobucket pics, my duster and 77 vette, my dads roadrunner, and 63 vette...very creepy, and makes me a little upset he is taking credit for all my/our work...

[Ash]

:0 ...WOW Tim. Faking the funk to the extreme. What I wouldn't give to see that douches expression when he reads your post. Well handled sir, and a well laid out post :cheers:

[SparkyRnD]

The sad part is that someone else will almost always get or take credit for what was yours. A lot of businesses do take liberties in what they claim as their own, and I think it should not happen. But in the end, I would rather know what I did and take pride in it, and let the chump with the checkbook think he did it all. That way I get paid and also get to know what I did was right. For builders, a contract for each and every job can help out a lot. You can then specify in the contract that any credit for said work has to be given to the shop (any printed, video or otherwise posting of credit). There are many things you can write into a contract that would protect you and ensure you have credit where credit is due. The downside is that many shops either don't want contracts, are afraid of them, or have inadequate versions that don't protect them and/or won't stand up in court.

I guess it all depends on how serious you want to get about receiving credit.

[andrewb70]

......But in the end, I would rather know what I did and take pride in it, and let the chump with the checkbook think he did it all......

"Chump with a checkbook".....really? Is that how you see your customers? Last time I checked it is the customers that allow your business to exist, so you might not want to call them "chumps."

Andrew

[SparkyRnD]

you misunderstood what I meant. I'm talking about the arrogant person that only wrote a check, and then takes credit for the entire build. that person is a chump, yes. The person that contributes, is a part of the process and gives credit where credit is due is by no means a chump.