OnStar - Spying for Profit - AFTER the Service is Canceled

[Tony_SS]

Interesting...


I canceled the OnStar subscription on my new GMC vehicle today after receiving an email from the company about their new terms and conditions. While most people, I imagine, would hit the delete button when receiving something as exciting as new terms and conditions, being the nerd sort, I decided to have a personal drooling session and read it instead. I’m glad I did. OnStar’s latest T&C has some very unsettling updates to it, which include the ability to sell your personal GPS location information, speed, safety belt usage, and other information to third parties, including Law Enforcement. To add insult to a slap in the face, the company insists they will continue collecting and selling this personal information even after you cancel your service, unless you specifically shut down the data connection to the vehicle after canceling.http://www.zdziarski.com/blog/?p=1270

[FirebirdSteve]

Wow.....just Wow!!!

[parsonsj]

Wow is right, but OnStar hasn't ever provided the data up 'til now, and if it does provide it, they claim it will only provide the data in anonymous form.

Here's an article from the Times:

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/changes-to-onstars-privacy-terms-rile-some-users/?scp=1&sq=onstar%20selling%20data&st=cse

An excerpt:

OnStar has not started selling data that it collects, Mr. Iyer said. Under the new terms, data would be made anonymous and aggregated to address privacy concerns. However, the open-ended language in the terms suggests that OnStar could, without reproach, sell the information to local governments, to companies offering location-based services and to marketers interested in directing messages to specific groups of drivers.

[Tony_SS]

John, the guy making those claims is an OnStar rep:
Vijay Iyer, an OnStar spokesman, Of course he's going to say they have not collected or sold information. And I would not look to him to be truthful about what the company actually has done, or what it promises to do.

I tend to believe the forensic scientist myself, who's blog I linked to and the NY Times links to it as well. More from his blog:


This is too shady, especially for a company that you’re supposed to trust your family to. My vehicle’s location is my life, it’s where I go on a daily basis. It’s private. It’s mine. I shouldn’t have to have a company like OnStar steal my personal and private life just to purchase an emergency response service. Taking my private life and selling it to third party advertisers, law enforcement, and God knows who else is morally inept. Shame on you, OnStar, for even giving yourselves the right to do this.

To make matters even more insulting, it was difficult to ensure the data connection was shut down after canceling. I still have no guarantee OnStar did what they were supposed to. I had to request the data connection be shut down repeatedly, after the OnStar rep attempted to leave it on and ignore my requests.

When will our congress pass legislation that stops the American people’s privacy from being raped by large data warehousing interests? Companies like OnStar, Google, Apple, and the other large abusive data warehousing companies desperately need to be investigated.

These terms don’t go into effect until December 2011, and it takes up to 10 days to have the account fully cancel, and another 14 days for the data connection to be shut down… so if you want to get out of these new terms and conditions, you’ll need to do it soon.

[vintageracer]

Just pull the cables on the unit in the truck.

There are already internet links available to completely disconnect the 2 way communication with On-Star needed to "anonymously" collect the information about speed, location, driving habits ect while maintaining ON-Star calling service for emergencies. There is also information to completely disconnect the unit totally for those that have stopped service and do not want "Big Brother" tracking you!

All this seems a little silly since everyone who is so concerned about On-Star tracking them probably has a cell phone in their pocket that CAN & DOES provide the same GPS based information to the phone company and ultimately who ever else needs or to whoever that info is sold to!

So are you going to turn your cell phone off also?????

[parsonsj]

Of course he's going to say they have not collected or sold information. And I would not look to him to be truthful about what the company actually has done, or what it promises to do.Fair enough. I'll be canceling my OnStar account for this reason, not to mention that it costs me $250 a year for something I'm not using.

[muthstryker]

Hide yo cars, Hide yo phones, They trackin errbody out here...

[parsonsj]

Phones are different -- at least a little bit. Apple / AT&T haven't said they are going to be selling my information, anonymously or not. Apple had a recent flap where they were keeping folk's information in iTunes on their home computers, and they moved quickly to remove it. Can they lie about that? I suppose. Not forever though.

[Tony_SS]

Just pull the cables on the unit in the truck.

There are already internet links available to completely disconnect the 2 way communication with On-Star needed to "anonymously" collect the information about speed, location, driving habits ect while maintaining ON-Star calling service for emergencies. There is also information to completely disconnect the unit totally for those that have stopped service and do not want "Big Brother" tracking you!

All this seems a little silly since everyone who is so concerned about On-Star tracking them probably has a cell phone in their pocket that CAN & DOES provide the same GPS based information to the phone company and ultimately who ever else needs or to whoever that info is sold to!

So are you going to turn your cell phone off also?????

Actually I do have certain functions disabled on my phone. I don't think it's silly though.. I just don't think people should be spied on and used as marketing tools after they cancel a service from a provider.

So what if you canceled your phone provider, do you think AT&T should still remotely track or spy on you for their own profit? It's an issue of private property, and mine is not to be a corporate marketing tool against my consent.

Yes, it's one thing to willingly give up this information, like on a Facebook account, or to enter into a contract with a provider - but when it taken from you, it's infringing on private property.

It's funny, I was reading a first hand account where an employee of Google was driving a map car down a private road. He was confronted by the property owner and told to leave.. the driver got very irate and got out of the car... but he got even more PO'd when the property owner started taking pics of him and the Google car. LoL! I'm sure the irony was lost on that driver.

[Jim Nilsen]

Phones are different -- at least a little bit. Apple / AT&T haven't said they are going to be selling my information, anonymously or not. Apple had a recent flap where they were keeping folk's information in iTunes on their home computers, and they moved quickly to remove it. Can they lie about that? I suppose. Not forever though.

The Patriot Act made so it doesn't matter about your privacy and the corporations with your info are required by law to disclose any info about you when they are asked. Your phone is a tracking device along with a listening device, don't ever forget that.

I only see the need for 4 gig networks and everyone having the latest and greatest phone as a way to keep up the surveilence of us faster and easier. One day we will see a message telling us where to go and who to report to or we will be arrested and treated as hostile according to the laws in the patriot act. You will see videos or messages of terror that are CG'd and not really happening at all so that we panic. Am I crazy thinking like this? Did Hitler actually wish he had the same communication capability? Are we really that naive to believe it won't happen to us when numerous people have been incriminated by cell phone and other tracking info like Onstar.

The supreme court has let the laws to protect us go to the crapper and we have no rights left for privacy at all, if you believe otherwise just give me your cell phone and see how long it takes for the government to show up and question you. I know it makes me nervous to think about what someone else can do with my phone, how about you? maybe I could borrow your car with Onstar and see where it gets you?

These are just thoughts and not what may actually be ,but it should get you thinking in the direction they are taking us and get you to understand that it is happening at some level right now and it is being accepted as keeping us safe instead of an intrusion.

[moreHP]

Your absolutely right Jim. Technology has advanced so far and they market these items as a "must have" so everybody gets one. Big brother made easy through marketing. I dont have a smart phone, I just have a regular cellphone. I guess I am in the extreme minority because I have zero desire or need for a smart phone. I have computers at work and home and if I want to look something up, I would rather not try to read a tiny screen anyway!

[1969CamaroRS]

Phones are different -- at least a little bit. Apple / AT&T haven't said they are going to be selling my information, anonymously or not.

Actually phones are worse at least in AT&T's case, remember the warrant-less wiretapping:
NSA warrantless surveillance controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy)

Since they were specifically granted completely immunity from any lawsuit, its pretty safe to assume it is still ongoing: Protect America Act of 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_Amer ica_Act_of_2007)

The Act provides explicit immunity from civil suit in any federal or state court for providing any information, facilities, or assistance in accordance with a directive under the Act.

Even worse phones are being tapped as microphones or used as "GPS bugs" even when turned off (without a warrant):

'Stingray' Phone Tracker Fuels Constitutional Clash (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904194604576583112723197574.html?m od=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5)
FBI taps cell phone mic as eavesdropping tool (http://news.cnet.com/2100-1029-6140191.html)

Which you can blame all of this nonsense to the Patriot Act and FISA laws, which seem to have gotten twisted by the Justice Department: Public Said to Be Misled on Use of the Patriot Act (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/us/politics/justice-dept-is-accused-of-misleading-public-on-patriot-act.html?_r=2)

Senators. Wyden Udall have for months been raising concerns that the government has secretly interpreted a part of the Patriot Act in a way that they portray as twisted, allowing the Federal Bureau of Investigation to conduct some kind of unspecified domestic surveillance that they say does not dovetail with a plain reading of the statute.

And since FISA court rules are sealed and secret good look luck ever knowing about it.

[novaderrik]

the difference between the cell phone in your pocket and the OnStar Big Brother box is that the phone can't tell them all the operating parameters of your car or allow them to remotely shut it off for whatever reason.

[Damn True]

the difference between the cell phone in your pocket and the OnStar Big Brother box is that the phone can't tell them all the operating parameters of your car or allow them to remotely shut it off for whatever reason.

GPS and location services are embedded into nearly every smartphone OS. That info can and has been subpoenaed.....and yes, Apple can kill a phone remotely.....all in EULA.

[NJSPEEDER]

How is OnStar tied into the vehicle? Is it possible to remove the unit all together?

[SLO_Z28]

Perhaps someone will chime in about the 2006 and newer model years (That actually knows and isnt speculating or linking internet speculation) but on the 2005 and older model years the BCM turns on a switched relay to the GPS antenna upon activation of the onstar system. The only thing that can turn on the OnStar system other than the user is the CDR module which is right next to the SRS module. It will only initiate a service call in the event of a SRS deployment loop activation, and even then it wont be able to read any live telemetry data for at least 45-50 seconds. The CDR however will record telemetry data (TPS %, VSS voltage, WSS voltage, and wheel yaw % if equipped) for at least 10 seconds before the activation of a deployment loop.

Disabling OnStar is easy, cut the antenna wires. If you never activate it however it never turns on. I know this to be true for 2005 and older GM vehicles, I used to have to fix the finnicky POS system at a chevy dealer.

[TheRev]

Hide yo cars, Hide yo phones, They trackin errbody out here...

Lol, well done

[CreepinDeth]

Actually phones are worse at least in AT&T's case, remember the warrant-less wiretapping:
NSA warrantless surveillance controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy)

Since they were specifically granted completely immunity from any lawsuit, its pretty safe to assume it is still ongoing: Protect America Act of 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act#Protect_Amer ica_Act_of_2007)

FYI , that was with all communication services......land, internet, wireless, etc.

I worked for AT&T at that time, and yes, I worked in their headends.
We were told not to ask questions, but were told that it was all done through the court systems in response to 9-11's attacks.
We were told to comply and allow the suits in to place tracking information devices all over each networks routers.

That was before the Patriot Act was signed. They said it was all in the name of security, but we all know
when you continue to give up freedoms in the name of security ......eventually......we know what that leads to.

[trapin]

Never needed Onstar for a thing. If I have to make a call, I have a smartphone. Need to find a restarant, use my smartphone. Directions? Smartphone. Besides, if you're in a roll-over accident the emergency caller doesn't work becuase everthing is under the headliner and gets damaged beyond repair.

[Tony_SS]

FYI , that was with all communication services......land, internet, wireless, etc.

I worked for AT&T at that time, and yes, I worked in their headends.
We were told not to ask questions, but were told that it was all done through the court systems in response to 9-11's attacks.
We were told to comply and allow the suits in to place tracking information devices all over each networks routers.

That was before the Patriot Act was signed. They said it was all in the name of security, but we all know
when you continue to give up freedoms in the name of security ......eventually......we know what that leads to.

Like I've always said, and you just proved it, all these things go on and then legislation is crafted to retroactively protect the hinds of those who are breaking laws. Disgusting. It's no different from govt to these OnStar corps, it's all standard operating procedure.

[jy211]

Just pull the cables on the unit in the truck.

There are already internet links available to completely disconnect the 2 way communication with On-Star needed to "anonymously" collect the information about speed, location, driving habits ect while maintaining ON-Star calling service for emergencies. There is also information to completely disconnect the unit totally for those that have stopped service and do not want "Big Brother" tracking you!



got any of them links?

[Ron@JJCustomInterior]

are you guys honestly surprised by this? Your info is prob being collected and sold right now while you sit on this site. If you want to be sketched out look at what sites like google and facebook are doing.

[Tony_SS]

are you guys honestly surprised by this? Your info is prob being collected and sold right now while you sit on this site. If you want to be sketched out look at what sites like google and facebook are doing.

I'm sorry, but it would be really sad for someone to expect to be spied on by OnStar after they canceled their service. So yes, this is shocking that the companies intrude so much for their own gain, and sell it to law enforcement?

The last I read, OnStar changed their tune about their terms and claim not to spy on people after you cancel anymore. Who know's if they will be truthful though.