How about this set of C4 13" rotors and C5 calipers

[Nemesis RR]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4712.m2000054&item=280736923889&viewitem=

I was searching ebay and it seems like a great deal. What do you guys think?

[davidk68]

Looks like a very good price to me considering the calipers would probably be about $300 new and the rotors maybe $100 each. What size wheels are you using?? There was a recent post that this combo won't work with ARE 17" 200S wheels but I know I've seen it on ARE TTII wheels. Might want to check out the templates on Kore3's website. If you're running 18's on the front you should be fine.

[Nemesis RR]

Going to be running at least an 18x8 on the front. Looking for an 18x9 front wheel that will fit my wallet.

[mattdirocz]

with that kit ccp told me i have to convert my hard lines to connect to there braided lines

[Nemesis RR]

with that kit ccp told me i have to convert my hard lines to connect to there braided lines

did they mention anything about wheel fitment?

[mattdirocz]

i didnt ask i assumed that you would need 17" or larger wheels. I was not to concerned i am running c5 wheels, guess i should have asked.

[chuckd71]

The calipers don't look like oem pieces and the rotors are doubtless as cheap as they could find. A set of 4 from brakemotive runs $165 shipped. Looks like they are selling $80 worth of rotors, maybe $100 worth of calipers (real C5 pieces can be found cheap), a $70 bracket and some odds and ends for a huge mark up.

[Rod]

a huge mark up.

?? really??
80 rotors
100 calipers
70 bracket
60 braided lines
70 bearing set
total
380 Bucks

sounds okay to me

[Apogee]

The picture may not be representative of what they're supplying, however FWIW, those are not C5 or C6 2-piston front calipers in the picture on the Ebay auction.

Tobin
KORE3

[Skip Fix]

So how much actual additional offset do you get using the hybrid C4/C5 over a straight C5 setup?

[Nemesis RR]

The picture may not be representative of what they're supplying, however FWIW, those are not C5 or C6 2-piston front calipers in the picture on the Ebay auction.

Tobin
KORE3

Do you know what calipers they are?

[Rod]

they look like camaro LS1 calipers, at just a glance, but there the PBR caliper used on c-15 pickups, it says that on there site

http://www.classicperform.com/Store/StreetRods/M2WBK-P13G.htm

[CreepinDeth]

Something has got to be wrong ......that price just seems wrong or some information is missing.....
I'm not sure what the benefits are to a billet hub with these kits.......but i noticed it's not in the listing
like it is on their website for $799 in this kit. http://www.classicperform.com/Store/StreetRods/M2WBK-P13G.htm

One thing I DID notice, is look at the brackets on the Ebay listing VS the one's on the website......
The Ebay one's are going to offset the calipers , can't tell if it's in or out.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/M2WBKP13G-1.jpg

As for the calipers......
I saved an article a year or two ago from Super Chevy when they put these on a Nova to test them out.


When we saw the picture of the CPP calipers, we just thought they were factory Vette calipers with the CPP name on them. We were wrong.
Turns out these PBR C15 front calipers are quite a bit better than the factory stuff. Jim Ries of CPP explained, "Our calipers use 52mm pistons as opposed
to the 40mm units found in C5 Vette calipers. They also have larger pad surfaces that offer about 50 percent more stopping power than the C5 calipers,
and they cost half as much. In addition, they have iron bodies that are far more rigid, resulting in a firmer pedal."

Read more: http://www.superchevy.com/technical/chassis/brakes/sucp_0806_chevy_nova_disc_brake_conversion/viewall.html#ixzz1ZEyTKn1G

What I would ask is how they are manufactured.....Gravity Cast or Pressure Cast.


C5 uses a 12.75" x 1.25" thick rotors.

Q: What is the difference between the LS1 and C5 brakes?
A: They are based off the same design but there are more differences then I originally though. The C5 caliper has stiffing / cooling ribs that extend the full length of the caliper.
Where the LS1 caliper only has them on the back (as you can see in the picture below). The C5 caliper is produced by a method called pressure casting and the LS1 caliper is
produced by gravity casting. This means the C5 caliper is stronger and more durable.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/faq-board/183169-98-camaro-ls1-brakes.html

[Apogee]

Do you know what calipers they are?

Sorry, but I can't be certain what CPP is using there based on the picture.

That said, the post above quoting Jim Ries is correct about the calipers having twice the clamping force is true assuming you supply the same pressure to both calipers, but that's not the whole story since the amount of pressure supplied to the calipers is controlled primarily by the master cylinder bore size, pedal ratio and booster if one is being used. The C5/C6 brakes (like most aftermarket performance brakes) are designed to operate at higher working pressures and as such are capable of creating as much brake torque as can be utilized by the tires. It could be argued that any additional clamping force in excess of tire lockup does nothing for you in terms of real performance since your're ultimately unable to take advantage of it. All it means is that you achieve lockup with less input force at the pedal, meaning you have worse modulation and brake control.

The steel calipers are certainly rigid, however that comes with almost a 7-8 pound weight penalty per caliper IIRC.

Tobin
KORE3

[CreepinDeth]

Just got off the phone with CPP.

#1. Those are not the PBR C15 calipers, that was an assumption and it was wrong.
Those are aftermarket copies of the C5 caliper. Hence why they don't have the cooling fins.

He's going to call me with the piston size and who is actually making them.
CPP didn't stamp their name on them, so that's making me think Chinese cheap calipers they won't put their name on possibly.

#2. Those REQUIRE the use of the factory drum hub up front.
It's confusing in how the auction presents the info with being compatible with disc or drum spindles.

Sounds like if it's too good to be true, it usually is.

[Rod]

#1. Those are not the PBR C15 calipers, that was an assumption and it was wrong.


not an assumption it says so on there own website either there web info is wrong or someones blowing smoke up you're a** and telling you what you want to hear to make the sale, ask them about the web info

[CreepinDeth]

I already asked.....


not an assumption it says so on there own website
The 2 links to their website posted in this thread are not the correct product.
Truth be told, this product is not on their own website.......that in of itself makes one question it.
People are under the impression these are C5 calipers by the way they're advertised and it's not accurate.

#1. Web site shows flat steel brackets. Ebay ad shows aluminum thicker brackets.
#2. Web site calipers are red with CPP laser cut into them. Ebay ad shows black with no etching.
#3. Web site shows aftermarket hubs for a disc brake conversion. Ebay auction requires drum hubs.

Danny (Ebay guy) at CPP told me their brake engineer was gone for the day so he couldn't tell me who makes the calipers.
I just called again today and spoke with Jeff. He's going to have them possibly revise the auctions to state that these
are not OE C5 calipers , and they will find out what the piston size is and possibly what casting style it is.

Not everyone out there knows what a C5 OE caliper actually costs......or that these are imported.

[Apogee]

It both looks and sounds like CPP mimicked the Touring Classics or Speedtech C5/C4 kit with a knockoff set of C5 calipers. It's too bad they didn't address the rotor thickness mismatch with a different rotor at the same time. It'll be interesting to see who is manufacturing the calipers, what their piston areas are, why they're not including the stiffening ribs, and whether they're gravity or pressure cast.

Tobin
KORE3

[Nemesis RR]

Sorry, but I can't be certain what CPP is using there based on the picture.

That said, the post above quoting Jim Ries is correct about the calipers having twice the clamping force is true assuming you supply the same pressure to both calipers, but that's not the whole story since the amount of pressure supplied to the calipers is controlled primarily by the master cylinder bore size, pedal ratio and booster if one is being used. The C5/C6 brakes (like most aftermarket performance brakes) are designed to operate at higher working pressures and as such are capable of creating as much brake torque as can be utilized by the tires. It could be argued that any additional clamping force in excess of tire lockup does nothing for you in terms of real performance since your're ultimately unable to take advantage of it. All it means is that you achieve lockup with less input force at the pedal, meaning you have worse modulation and brake control.

The steel calipers are certainly rigid, however that comes with almost a 7-8 pound weight penalty per caliper IIRC.

Tobin
KORE3

The 7 to 8 pound penalty per caliper of suspension weight is more than enough reason to stay away on a car that you are trying to optimize handling on. Drag car would be different of course.

[Rod]

all this questions going around, blaa blaa blaa!! I ordered the front disc kit and the parts look good

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030438-1.jpg

heres the rotor

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030453-1.jpg

heres the rotor with a stock drum hub (not turned down to fit) about an 1/8th of clearance all the way around

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030455-1.jpg

and the rotor with a wilwood hub

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030458-1.jpg

and the mounting bracket

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030442-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030444-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030445-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030452-1.jpg

[Nemesis RR]

what calipers?

[Rod]

what calipers?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/P1030514-1.jpg

[DButler]

How did these work out? I am looking at purchasing this setup. My car is mainly a street car and this setup looks fine for street use.

[DButler]

Also are these c5 style calipers or truck calipers. If c5 could you not come back later and change out for OE if you ever wanted to?