How much Nitrous can I run????

[Carbo]

Ok, for all of you NOS guys out there. I have a 69 camaro, 408 sbc stroker, running 10.6 to 1 compression, dart pro 1 heads, edelbrock rpm airgap, holley 750 DP, all forged internals. Have an aeromotive fuel pump (flows 150 gph) with an A1000 regulator set at 7.5 psi. Not exactly sure what the cam is although I do have the specs and will post them later. Also, this is a street car, 3.42 posi, tremec TKO 600 that will not see the track. Just wanted some extra power in case a tuner wants to challenge me on the highway!!!!! https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/02/yes-1.gif

After speaking with some NOS experts and some tech personnel in the industry I am getting mixed answers. I was told by NOS (the company - holley) that I cannot run more than a 100 shot without running race gas. Then I spoke with NX and they said I could run up to a 200 shot on premium pump gas 93. However, I live in Vegas and the the premium gas out here is 91 so they recommended 150 shot would be fine even with running my compression.

So the question is, who has the experience with N2O to know what is the correct answer? I know about running colder plugs, timing retard (which I will be installing the MSD timing retard box) and the other components that go along with it. I'm just trying to find out what is the max shot I can use w/o going to race fuel. I know you start off low and work your way up but I just wanted to hear from people with experience to give me an idea of how high I can go. Thanks in advance.

[kmcanally]

You did not mention what head gaskets you are running...but I would recommend running an MLS gasket like Cometics for reliability when running anything more than a 100 shot. Also instead of having to run a tank full of race gas install a separate dedicated fuel system just for the nitrous like I did in my Mustang. This is a better way to control the fuel pressure in the nitrous system and the race gas will provide an extra level of reliability when the nitrous is engaged.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/IMG_2858-1.jpg

[shmoov69]

What he said! You can be slot safer if you have a separate fuel system with 114 in it for the juice. You dont have to have a monster pump for it that way also. You can also tailor the pressure for alot more power that way too.

Your answer? Keep it out of detonation and tuned properly and you can run a TON thru it.......not tuned properly and a little rattle....it comes from together!

[tooblue]

Are you planning on running any type of Nitrous controller, Timing controller?

[Carbo]

You did not mention what head gaskets you are running...but I would recommend running an MLS gasket like Cometics for reliability when running anything more than a 100 shot. Also instead of having to run a tank full of race gas install a separate dedicated fuel system just for the nitrous like I did in my Mustang. This is a better way to control the fuel pressure in the nitrous system and the race gas will provide an extra level of reliability when the nitrous is engaged.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/IMG_2858-1.jpg



What he said! You can be slot safer if you have a separate fuel system with 114 in it for the juice. You dont have to have a monster pump for it that way also. You can also tailor the pressure for alot more power that way too.

Your answer? Keep it out of detonation and tuned properly and you can run a TON thru it.......not tuned properly and a little rattle....it comes from together!

Not sure what head gaskets I'm running. I will have to check. I am leaning more towards a separate fuel system as I am seeing this is more common.


Are you planning on running any type of Nitrous controller, Timing controller?

Yes. I was looking at the MSD ignition retard timing box. This is strictly a street car and don't plan on taking it to the track.

BTW, thanks for the contact here in Vegas. I will be giving him a call.

[DeltaT]

That's the slick way to do it for sure, but with your setup I wouldn't have any problem throwing a 150shot on there, do a colder plug, retard box and add in 5 gallons (or more) of good race gas for a simple solution. You could even pull 4 degrees out of the motor manually for the night without harm, and do without a retard box until later.

A progressive controller, WOT switch and low fuel pressure igniton cutoff are excellent options too.

Jim

[Carbo]

[QUOTE=DeltaT;839241 A progressive controller, WOT switch and low fuel pressure igniton cutoff are excellent options too. Jim[/QUOTE]

Most kits I looked at come with the WOT switch and I will install a cutoff as well. What is the benefit to the progressive controller? I've seen them at summit but not sure how they are used.

[kmcanally]

Yeah a low fuel pressure switch is mandatory. You can see mine below the elbow coming out of the front fuel pressure regulator. I also mounted a light in my ash tray to know that I have pressure after arming the system.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/IMG_2852-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/IMG_0197-1.jpg

[Carbo]

There's no doubt I would be doing a fuel pressure switch. Are you running a progressive controller with your setup? What is the benefit to the progressive controller?

[kmcanally]

No I am not running a progressive controller. The benefit is that you can program the ramp rate of the nitrous so that it is not brought on all at once and melting the tires.

[Carbo]

Got it. Sounds like it's more useful for drag racing than for a street car. Thanks for the info.

[kmcanally]

Got it. Sounds like it's more useful for drag racing than for a street car. Thanks for the info.

Yeah my car boils the tires in first gear without the nitrous...so I mostly use it from a 3rd gear roll...when I am outmatched NA.

[Carbo]

Yeah my car boils the tires in first gear without the nitrous...so I mostly use it from a 3rd gear roll...when I am outmatched NA.

That's exactly what my intentions are as well. A little insurance policy in case the NA can't keep up.:smoke:

If and when I pull the trigger on this, I'll be looking to set mine up the way you have yours with the fuel cell next to the bottle in the trunk. I was either looking at Zex or NX for the kits so I may be reaching out to you for some pointers before I do the install.

[Carbo]

BTW, what gearing are you running in the rear end?

[kmcanally]

BTW, what gearing are you running in the rear end?

3.89's

[Carbo]

I'm running 3.42's with my TKO RR and I love the cruising speed on the highway, 80mph at 2900 rpm.

Thanks for all the info. I may be pulling the trigger on the N2O but probably not until winter. I'll post back and let everyone know what my setup will be.

[MonzaRacer]

If its a GM 400 block you had better have your tune dead on cause those things are super thin junk, most of the guys I build 400 base engines I talk into aftermarket blocks as we have seen 60+ hp/tq increases with just block swaps, 400s are just so 20 or 30 yrs ago, you push that engine too hard and it will push a main web or split a cylinder. Last one I built about 15 yr ago was a 406 and it was 14.5, dyers rods, splayed cap 2 bolt block, wiesco pistons, callies crank. it would up splitting two cylinders on dyno, sleeved it and mid season it pushed 2nd and third main web out, lost all oil pressure and this engine WAS tuned perfect, even safe.
Swap in a World block and tada on dyno it made 78 hp and 90lb ft of torque more, no different specs. The engine bearings looked like garbage and the engine made over 750 hp in original pkg and eclipses over 800 with block change.
And block had all the checks, stress relieving, etc. Came stock from 74/75 pick up with low miles. Honestly I wont push a 400 with more than 150 shot AT BEST and that better be dyno tuned to the inch of its life.

[Johnny Blaze]

If its a GM 400 block you had better have your tune dead on cause those things are super thin junk, most of the guys I build 400 base engines I talk into aftermarket blocks as we have seen 60+ hp/tq increases with just block swaps, 400s are just so 20 or 30 yrs ago, you push that engine too hard and it will push a main web or split a cylinder. Last one I built about 15 yr ago was a 406 and it was 14.5, dyers rods, splayed cap 2 bolt block, wiesco pistons, callies crank. it would up splitting two cylinders on dyno, sleeved it and mid season it pushed 2nd and third main web out, lost all oil pressure and this engine WAS tuned perfect, even safe.
Swap in a World block and tada on dyno it made 78 hp and 90lb ft of torque more, no different specs. The engine bearings looked like garbage and the engine made over 750 hp in original pkg and eclipses over 800 with block change.
And block had all the checks, stress relieving, etc. Came stock from 74/75 pick up with low miles. Honestly I wont push a 400 with more than 150 shot AT BEST and that better be dyno tuned to the inch of its life.

I'd like to see some of the builds.

I have never heard anyone make claims like those regarding aftermarket blocks= more power.

[Carbo]

If its a GM 400 block you had better have your tune dead on cause those things are super thin junk, most of the guys I build 400 base engines I talk into aftermarket blocks as we have seen 60+ hp/tq increases with just block swaps, 400s are just so 20 or 30 yrs ago, you push that engine too hard and it will push a main web or split a cylinder. Last one I built about 15 yr ago was a 406 and it was 14.5, dyers rods, splayed cap 2 bolt block, wiesco pistons, callies crank. it would up splitting two cylinders on dyno, sleeved it and mid season it pushed 2nd and third main web out, lost all oil pressure and this engine WAS tuned perfect, even safe.
Swap in a World block and tada on dyno it made 78 hp and 90lb ft of torque more, no different specs. The engine bearings looked like garbage and the engine made over 750 hp in original pkg and eclipses over 800 with block change.
And block had all the checks, stress relieving, etc. Came stock from 74/75 pick up with low miles. Honestly I wont push a 400 with more than 150 shot AT BEST and that better be dyno tuned to the inch of its life.

Actually I have a 350 block bored and stroked to a 408. But I do agree with Blaze, I would like to see some numbers supporting that theory of more HP and TQ with a different block. I'm not saying that can't or isn't happening but I would like to see proof.

[MonzaRacer]

you ever see 400 chevys break? it aint pretty. Ill dig up dyno sheets if that hard drive still starts. Like I said, pushing 400 blocks is very iffy from a longevity point.
I have seen many milder 400s make more power with more stable foundations.
Hey I am just pointing out the specs on the deck height, piston depth, piston clearance, bearing clearance all of it matched old block when fresh. I was impressed the new block even had better leak down after dyno break in/pull.
The cylinder wall finish was same, all of it, only change was clean up of all parts, new rings and bearings and seals. all things were same.
So what if you change NOTHING but a block, and end up with more power, what would you attribute it too?
Me,,, I HAVE SEEN the dyno results, so I believe it.
Now as for N2O, I would not risk my car just to blow off a tuner to NOT having proper set up, dedicated fuel system parts, pressure switches etc, AND a progressive controller can help you tune it to your needs and have a shifter/steering wheel deadman switch(one finger on it it works, bad noise, acting weird let up) and cuts off and a SET ON KILL switch to bypass the controller so you can destroy something.
But this is me. also if you hit the switch, it basically comes on at say a 50 shot for say 1 to 2 seconds then ramps up till you drive over the crank. Also having control over the amounts help a lot in how much you use, cause the bottle is limited in quantity. But just my take on it.

[Johnny Blaze]

Yes, I have seen production 400 blocks fail. I have seen production blocks of just about every make fail.

What I have never seen was anyone claim "Swap in a World block and tada on dyno it made 78 hp and 90lb ft of torque more, no different specs."

If that were true it would be cover material for every Magazine out there. World would be hyping it to everyone. Even if they were being conservitive based off your numbers and said "gain 50hp and 50 lb ft with our new stronger block". They would print ads in every magazine saying that. What better way to market an aftermarket block, then show power increases?
Sure, they are marketing them for duability, but if people thought they would gain 50+ hp and torque, I know they would sell twice as many blocks as they do now.

[uxojerry]

You may want to research meth injection in addition to nitrous. I have done the research and plan of using it with my nitrous setup. The 50% meth and water solution is a good defense against accidental detonation and increases octane by as much as 15%. It seems crazy to run windshield washer fluid through an engine but that is what the system is. Cheaper units allow you to run the fluid right out of your washer reservoir. Other system have a 3-5 gallon tank. Most advocates drop the mix and run straight methyl alcohol, but primarily on high boost set-ups.

[obengston]

I have close to the same set up (except mine is a 383). 10.8 comp, and I run a 200 shot without any issues at all, and use 93 oct. I run the fuel straight from the mech holley fuel pump (175gph). I run several safety items in case of failure to shut the system off. So far the car takes the shot really well.