No Limit Challenge - er

[RobNoLimit]

Yes, it's a MOPAR. We're on the front side of a pretty cool build on a '70 Challenger, so we thought we would share. The plan is simple enough. New chassis, new floor, firewall & tubbs, new hemi, well, new car. We started with a solid and straight '70 Challenger. The car had new quarters put on it, and the body fit is good. After many hours of measuring, and planning, we had Morrison bend us up some rails to our spec. We will be using our Wide-Ride iFS, and a three-link in the rear. Wheel tub mods are a must to fit the 345 rears, and 285 fronts. I'll get some picts up soon.
- Chad, this wil be at some Goodguys Events, so there may be TWO MOPARS soon! - lol

[Nessumsar]

:postpics:

:)

[Bryce]

:postpics:

:)

werd!

[wellis77]

:postpics:

:)

must have!

[RobNoLimit]

48713

[RobNoLimit]

48714

[RobNoLimit]

48715

[RobNoLimit]

48716

[RobNoLimit]

48717

[RobNoLimit]

48718

[RobNoLimit]

48719

[RobNoLimit]

48720

[RobNoLimit]

48721

[go-fish]

This is awesome. It's what we in the Mopar world need! Cut 'em up!

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Looks awesome Rob! Keep bringin' it...:yes:

[dusterbd13]

please tell me it will be white and look like the vanishing point car.....

[linkstar69]

Wow, do you know if that Morrison frame will become a stock part for them? I know it'd be a lot low frequency of sales but at the same time it'd be nice for mopar guys to have some extreme full rame options available.

[rrunner68]

I'll really be interested to see this in the end and on the track.

[wellis77]

Wow, do you know if that Morrison frame will become a stock part for them? I know it'd be a lot low frequency of sales but at the same time it'd be nice for mopar guys to have some extreme full rame options available.

I doubt it will be in "stock", but all you have to do is call and order.

[RobNoLimit]

Front Rocker Mounting Plates

[RobNoLimit]

Front Rails

[RobNoLimit]

Rear body 1/4 view with rails in place

[RobNoLimit]

Owen fitting in the rocker edges

[RobNoLimit]

Looking Down the Rocker-Frame Rail

[RobNoLimit]

I'll really be interested to see this in the end and on the track.

Me too, need to give your Road Runner some company. should be running for the spring Scottsdale & Del Mar

[RobNoLimit]

please tell me it will be white and look like the vanishing point car.....

Sorry to dissapoint (I love that car) But, this was a 'Plum crazy' car on day one, and it will be again when re-born.

[RobNoLimit]

Now we take the tubs out

[Riddler]

Whoa this is a killer build. I'm watching!


Riddler

[RobNoLimit]

Laying Out New Tubs

[RobNoLimit]

Using a Quick Compass

[RobNoLimit]

While Tina is posting up more picts, I'll chip in a bit. The chassis was built in our frame jig, so it's nice and square. This body had rear quarters and some other metal repair done to it. We started by rebuilding the door hinges, and then spending some time aligning the doors and fenders. This takes a while, but has to be done to get a good finish. However it fits now, is how it will fit when it's done. We tacked some legs onto the chassis, appx 18" to make it easier to work on. We fit each leg to the floor so that the chassis is perfectly level, and we mark the floor where it sits. This way we can lift it up to wrk on it, and each time we set it down to weld, we know it's square and level. The base chassis weighs 163 lbs. the floor we took out weighed 226 lbs. This type of construction is usually the same overall weight as stock, but the weight is lower, farther back, and the unsprung percentage is much less. These cars (uni-bombers) are also much stronger than stockers.

[RobNoLimit]

Cutting the tubs out-4 at a time

[RobNoLimit]

This is what we started with

[RobNoLimit]

mocking up the center lines

[RobNoLimit]

Closing the door fit

[RobNoLimit]

Start Cutting-taking out the floor

[RobNoLimit]

Forming the rail caps

[RobNoLimit]

Punching plug-weld holes in the rail caps

[RobNoLimit]

This is the rail caps in place. The seam to the frame will be fully welded later.

[RobNoLimit]

Tub side panels being mocked up.

[RobNoLimit]

Bead Rolling the tubs

[RobNoLimit]

Bead Rolling the tubs

[RobNoLimit]

Tubb Parts

[RobNoLimit]

This is the outer tubb side and the closest point it is spaced 3/8" away from the outer quarter panel.

[RobNoLimit]

Tubb and inner side tacked together

[RobNoLimit]

Here is a look at the tubbs going in. When done, there is over 20 ft of weld in each tubb.

[Bryce]

Great work and fast! I am looking forward to this car being done.

Maybe sometime next week, HAHA.

[RobNoLimit]

Lol, maybe not that quick. Uni-bombers usually take about three/four months. next week we will roll some 335's under it and start on the rear suspension.

[RobNoLimit]

Happy monday!!! The welding on the tubbs is almost done, so today we will start on the rear suspension mock-up. Our new Currie HD housing arived last week, and I spent some time over the weekend on auto-pro working on the rear design. Simple to tune, adjustable, and easy to get to, are big on the list of requirements. Yes, of coarse it will be smooth riding, and offer great performance. But keep in check, if it's too complicated, or too hard to get to, the owner won't tune it, and won't get all they can out of it. So, with this in mind, it's a three link, panhard, and coil-overs. We will throw in a few tricks to help make it sticky.

[craigs73]

this is nice project keep up the good work rob

[RobNoLimit]

This is a cool little part. These are pivit adjusters, like a small scale 'johnny-joint' The plus here is that these have nylon race cups for the pivit ball to ride on, not metal-to-metal. This is the same (in smaller scale) as the 'monster-balls' that we use on our trailing arms. The big gain here, is that they allow the axle to tip without binding at all, (like some of the aftermarket rotating links), and they still are quiet on the street, unlike true rod-ends. They are greasable, and rebuildable. I usually build all of our 'street' links with only oneadjustable end. - less chance of the suspension 'self-adjusting' if the jam nuts aren't tight. (and we see that a lot!). But on the Challenger, we will use an adjuster on each end, one R.H. and one L.H. so that it is easier to tune.

[linkstar69]

Neat part

[72BBSwinger]

I dig I dig! Subscribed.......

[Hotwhilz]

May I ask, where to get those?

[RobNoLimit]

these are a machine-robotics item. I get them from a friend at Sunkist bottling. The small ones are 3/4" RH or LH thread, with a 7/16 (12mm) pivit hole, and 2 3/8" wide. They don't go in inplace of any existing rod end or adjuster, so it has to be a new mount install to go with them. Let me know if you want some, I can get them for you for 21.00 each.

[Bjkadron]

these are a machine-robotics item. I get them from a friend at Sunkist bottling. The small ones are 3/4" RH or LH thread, with a 7/16 (12mm) pivit hole, and 2 3/8" wide. They don't go in inplace of any existing rod end or adjuster, so it has to be a new mount install to go with them. Let me know if you want some, I can get them for you for 21.00 each.

What kind of loading can they take?

[Bryce]

What kind of loading can they take?

I would bet the bolt would be the weak link in that setup. But a good alloy steel SHCS is good to 15,000 pounds in single shear.

[RobNoLimit]

You are right that the bolt is the stress point. But, the bolt is inside of a larger alloy steel pivit ball, which is all one piece. These would be in double shear. I have seen these in action, connected to 80k lb air rams and they slam into steel sheet to make cans, about 60k times a day. They service, greese every 100 hrs, and rotate(replace) every 90 days, or appx 7 million hits. They're still pretty snug at that point. I don't think we can hurt them on the street.

[Hotwhilz]

Rob, got to measure a few things but definitly intersted I'll shoot you a pm for order once I figure the watt set up I'm heading for what type of thread are those

[RobNoLimit]

Challenger eating a 335

[RobNoLimit]

Wow! I know that this is a big tire, but it really doesn't look so huge under the car. Our static ride height is 5 1/2" at the front of the rocker, and 6" at the rear. Now, nothing hangs down below the bottom of the frame - or rocker, and this is pretty low for a streetable car. But, it doesn't look that low to me, and the tire doesn't look that big. I know it's hot out hear in the I.E., but, it is a 335/30/19, shouldn't it be bigger?

[dusterbd13]

oddly, it does look kinda tiny. we need a better overall shot of the mockup to tell, though.

and 5.5-6 in? eh. my daily driven s10 had 3.75 at the lowest points.

and yes, i drug stuff. a lot.

Michael

[rrunner68]

You know funny thing about that, I thought that 275's looked huge out of the car, and now I think they look like bicycle tires, lol.

[MoparCar]

I'm building a 71 Challenger also. I've got the same 19" 335 Nitto tire with Fikse wheels on order and was worried that I went too large with the 19s on back. Not any more! I kept mocking up the 18/335 mock up tire I have and the wheel well on the Chally just swallowed it. That's why I went with the 19 also. I mini tubbed and worked the outer tub where it meets the quarter at a slant so the wheels would tuck also.

Wes

[72BBSwinger]

Challengers have big hips! You should have 345s in there lol!

[wellis77]

Looks good! How are you tieing the rear frame rail into the rear crossmember? Any pics?

[RobNoLimit]

This is a shot of the finished lower bar mount. The rail is sleaved with 3/4" O.D. 7/16" I.D. tubes.

[RobNoLimit]

The rear axle in place at ride height. The side plates hold the axle housing tacked in place at ride height and with the pinion angle set.

[RobNoLimit]

These are the housing mounts for the lower bars and lower coil-over mounts. They are cut out on our water jet. 3 plates per side.

[RobNoLimit]

Lower housing mount assembly. The bolted in spacers are cut on a lathe to spec as to fit the pivit balls and shock mounts. The tubing insert is 1 1/4 x .090

[RobNoLimit]

Front side of the lower housing mount is for the lower bar. This uses the 'center' and 'inside' plates.

[RobNoLimit]

Over all shot with the cross tube in place.

[RobNoLimit]

View from the back side. The shock mount will fit into the lower stand out off the 'center' and 'outer' plates.

[RobNoLimit]

HAHA, Yes, I will finish welding all of the tubes and mounts. At first, I weld all of the ara that will be really hard to get to once installed on the housing. Later, it will go back on the bench and be finished.

[linkstar69]

What's the advantages of the bar between the brackets other than rigidity?

[Bryce]

looking good!

[79-TA]

I can't wait to see you guys bring this car out to AMP for its first shakedown. The work looks great, good job!

[FRENCHBLUE72]

After seeing what you built on 67-72chevytrucks.com I cant wait to see this one done..

[RobNoLimit]

What's the advantages of the bar between the brackets other than rigidity?

Well, rigidity for one, lol, it does make it easier to get the mounts perfectly in line. And, as a bonus, it's a nice place to tie down to, if, god forbid, it ever has to go on a trailer.

[RobNoLimit]

I can't wait to see you guys bring this car out to AMP for its first shakedown. The work looks great, good job!

Thanks Brett, are you going to The labor Day Cruise next weekend? Autocross?

[RobNoLimit]

After seeing what you built on 67-72chevytrucks.com I cant wait to see this one done..

Thanks. Coming soon is Project "Reaper", a 68 C-10 that will make some of our other builds like mondane and dull.

[RobNoLimit]

With the tubs welded in place, it's time to start trimmimg them in. What you can't see is the original inner roof brace. I started there, and attached it down to the new tubs.

[RobNoLimit]

This will be a front side trimmer. 18 GA 1 1/8 wide, formed 90 @ 1/2" in. Notice the marks down the edge every inch. This makes forming a lot easier.

[RobNoLimit]

Forming the front trimmer using a stretcher. This took about 30 min to fit in per side.

[RobNoLimit]

Once the trimmer fits all around it's time to install it. The back side is sprayed with rust-o-leum along with the tubb tops. Then the welding starts, this approach will follow all around the tubbs.

[RobNoLimit]

Here are the lower bar parts. The tube inserts on the right are mine-No Limit Parts. The ones on the left are from "The Chassis Shop"-really nice-L.H. tread. You know the really cool ones you see-nice, smooth, and tapered down that you weld in and smooth off-well, they suck. You WILL need to put a wrench on these, and if your bar is all smooth then I guess you use chanell locks or vise grips. Plan ahead use hex inserts

[RobNoLimit]

Here is a look at the lower bars. Yes-I will use jam nuts during assembly. LOL Looking at this picture makes me realize it's time to clean the shop.

[67zo6Camaro]

Out standing work Rob.

Glad you are showcasing your skills.

[wellis77]

Awesome work Rob. Did you Mig or Tig the tubs and are they a kit or did you scratch-build them?

[RobNoLimit]

Thanks guys. The tubbs are scratch built. Most of the suspension is T.I.G. welded, but, in the interest of time, I M.I.G. most of the sheet metal. I use .023" wire on most sheet metal 18 ga. and thinner, .030" for 16 ga. to 10 ga., and .035" wire for 1/8" and bigger. I mostly use a C-25 gas mix, it leaves a clean finish. Our cars are built to be drivin. Undercoating, dyno-mat, cool-mat, is all part of the build plan. You never see the underlying metal work, so we don't think it's fair to bump up the billing to the customer with the 'all T.I.G.' approach. This 'ol car will be bullitproof when we're done, I have no doubts. Have a great Labor Day Weekend

[rrunner68]

Love the tubs. If and when we got for bigger tires on the Road Runner, you're gonna have some work to do....

[Nessumsar]

Great stuff Rob. Glad to see you posting your work, I'm sure there are plenty of people in our area that could use your work.

[nicke]

Thats looking real nice! I love these challengers done up like this! Reminds me of a 70' that is being built by a shop here in Spokane. http://www.ocdcustomcars.com/challenger/
I can wait to see how this build turns out and will certainly be following!

[kmdracer]

Cool! Subing to watch the build.

[ryeguy2006a]

Nice build, the 1970 is my favorite year Challenger.

[Bill_Osiris]

sub'd for more progress

[MrQuick]

Here are the lower bar parts. The tube inserts on the right are mine-No Limit Parts. The ones on the left are from "The Chassis Shop"-really nice-L.H. tread. You know the really cool ones you see-nice, smooth, and tapered down that you weld in and smooth off-well, they suck. You WILL need to put a wrench on these, and if your bar is all smooth then I guess you use chanell locks or vise grips. Plan ahead use hex inserts

Hi Rob, do/can you sell these not threaded?

[RobNoLimit]

no, the ones I have made in hex stock are all threaded 3/4-16 RH. I have tham done at a local job shop in batches of apx 400 pts, so it's tough to make get them any other way unless i want big numbers.

[ramlinman]

don't stop now... as the audience grows

[RobNoLimit]

I'm workin', I'm workin', ... i'll get some more shots up today, little bits of sheet metal. - this is the slow part.

[RobNoLimit]

I have the tubs finished now and roughed in the wheel opening lips. The tubb extension (lower,front) is made of 16 ga.-it ties the chassis to the back of the 'B' pillar.

[RobNoLimit]

On the inside the flat plate floor piece is 1/8" steel. this acts as a gusset from the rear rail out to the rocker rail, braces the lower link mount, and is the floor. I pitty the fool who t-bones the challenger.:razz:

[RobNoLimit]

Two stepped braces join the rocker rail and rear floor plate up to the 'B' pillar. They are 1/8" steel.

[RobNoLimit]

With no reference, it's hard to judge size. What is it?

[RobNoLimit]

Ahh! Fits the optima power cell.

[RobNoLimit]

Here is the box fitted into the passenger rear trunk floor.

[RobNoLimit]

A look at the hinge brace attached to the wheel tubs.

[RobNoLimit]

I use a lot of 'trim rails' when building floors. 1/2" x 1/2" 18 ga angle. This helps define the new floor height.

[RobNoLimit]

Passenger Rear floor dropped in.

[RobNoLimit]

Drivers side finished

[RobNoLimit]

Passenger side finished

[RobNoLimit]

Remember Physics class, "a body at rest....", OK, we here's my take on it. "A battery solidly mounted will stay safe, A battery in motion will destroy the back end of a car", or worse.

[rrunner68]

True that. Are you 100% on that placement? not gonna be in the way of anything?

[RobNoLimit]

It's all good. The battery is sideways to the normal aproach, but it fits in better. The fuel inlet is on the pass 1/4 panel, and will run just behind the tubb, in front of the battery - thats why the battery is back a bit from the tubb. The flat space behind the battery may be used for fuel pump/filter location. Battery drop is 4", the same as the frame rail, so we have lots of room for exhaust under the box/rail. Drivers side has lots of room, We went with only one battery for siplicity, and Jimi says the Optima is plenty strong.

[coolwelder62]

Rob lookin good.Scott M.

[68Formula]

http://www.streetfire.net/video/dirty-mary-crazy-larry-car-chase_162573.htm

[wellis77]

Rob, do you have any better pics of how you mated the rear frame and rear cross-member/tail panel?

[ramlinman]

great work rob

[MoparCar]

Any updates on this project?
Thanks-Wes

[Finn]

This is a great project! Any more pictures??

[vprace]

Looking fantastic! Very nice job on the sheet metal, and this like most builds on here has giving me more insight into how to handle some of the hurdles facing my build! Looking forward to seeing more!

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[MoparCar]

Did this car get finished?
Thanks-Wes

[RobNoLimit]

Well, not yet. It was set back na bit. Good news is, it's back in the rotation. I will be posting up more on this in the next few weeks.

[syborg tt]

i'm happy. I enjoy watching your builds

[RobNoLimit]

The transmission has been a big hold-up. but at least we finally have a case. I guess this is the Mopar price you pay. We finally started to fit in the motor/trans, and this brought on a decision I have been struggling with. A) Smooth out the wiper notch, and work with the stock firewall, blending in a larger tunnel, or B) Scrap it all and build a new firewall. I really was hoping to keep the OE feel under the hood, the whole old/new-hemi challenger feel, but, in reality, we can build a better car if start fresh. So be it. I started with the 'cap' of the cowl, cutting back away from the wiper notch and forming a new front edge. I chose to leave some of the OE material for now to help stabilize the work area. Test fitting with the cowl vent and a pattern board hood template to make sure the arc is correct. This will give me a nice even front line to work from. On the underside, the large dimple for the wiper motor was cut out, andthis area will be put back in at the same level as the rest of the lower cowl, which comes forwad to meet the firewall.

[High Plains Mopars]

Nice work!

[RobNoLimit]

Progress!!! Finally got a trans.:git: First hurdle, motor mounts. I have a standard approach, and that is to try and use a standard small block chevy mount whenever I can. They are easy to come by and replace if needed, and prettyu user friendly. After sharpening the old pencis, I took my notes over to the Flowjet and cut some adapter plates. these are 1/4" steel. One hole on the chevy mount needs to be opened up from 3/8" to 12mm - or 7/16" . The chevy mounts are bolted to the plate first, then the assembly is bolted to the block.

[RobNoLimit]

Next was to make a trans slider plate. I'm so happy we have a trans. I like to make the trans mount a seporate entity from any other component. I try to give it only one job to do. The X member will have plenty of other bracing to tie the two sides together. Back to the Flowjet. I made to side mounts to weld in, one on each side of the X member, and a center 'slider' plate. All of the holes are slotted to have front/rr and side/side adjustment. Thslider plate will be flush with the bottom of the frame rails. The rectangle hole cut is for a 2" x 4" tube 'riser' that will be fitted and welded in and set the hieght of the trans mount.

[Rod]

bout time you do some work, and stop all that vacationing stuff

[RobNoLimit]

Ok Ok. Here's some insight to my lack of Mopar knowledge. I haven't been real happy with the cowl work. It looks a bit choppy. But, I have to keep all of the OE shapes so that the cowl vent will fit. Once the eng/trans was moving along, I decided to re-visit the cowl top area. I thought I would mock up the fenders and cowl vent to check the fit and see what the finish shape will show. So off I went. Up on the mezenine to Mopar corner (we only have one mopar build, so this could be Challenger corner I guess). We had the whole car together at one time, so I know we have everything here. Fenders, hood deck lid, valances, grill suround..... can't find the cowl vent. Well, maybe it's in the store room, so off I go. Nope. Hmm, we have a cargo container for overstock storage, maybe out there......Nope. So, I'm getting a little frustrated. Somebody's going to catch hell for this one. I ask everyone at the shop - no, no one has seen it. Argh, where am I going to find a replacement. So, to protect my employees, I walked back over to the Challenger to stare at it, (no one else was working around it - that keeps then safe) As I stare at the car wondering how we lost this part, I noticed that the car on the Barrett Jackson poster is a Challenger. I never noticed the car before, the poster is signed by five or six of the Barrett girls.... nice car though. I leaned in for a closer look. DONG! WELL LOOK AT THAT. THE HOOD GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE WINSHIELD. So I went and got the hood, that I looked at three hours ago, sure enough, no cowl vent on a Challenger. Hey I wont forget that one. After checking the hood/fender fit, I realized, I dont need any of that goofy shaped top panel, so I fixed it. lesson learned - look at the poster in the top right corner.

[RobNoLimit]

A couple of picts of the trans mount

[Ron S]

Looks good Rob, have always loved these cars. Have a 70 Cuda setting out back which is probably next on my list, after I finish my Amx. That flow jet stuff is so cool, man I need one of them. Can't wait for future updates.

[RobNoLimit]

Back to it. To cure some of the Cuda/Challenger door sag issues, we had planned on adding a little strength to the A-pillar. The structure which is fiited from the outer chassis rails and up the A-pillar is 1 3/4" .120 dom. Later we will be connecting this via bolt flanges through the firewall and forward down to the rails. And, a bit farther down the road, the cross bar will be the front connecting point of the interior cage. The crossbar was formed to be higher and farther forward than a straight bar would have been, mostly to create room for the A/C unit, and to be in the right spot for pedal mounts.

[RobNoLimit]

Finally on to the firewall. The motor is back about 4" from the OE placement. I know, (they didn't come with these motors) but I'm going by the eng/trans parting line. So, the firewall needed to go back some. I have a plan for the inner fenders to make the setback of the firewall dissappear, and I got my fingers crossed that it works. The main firewall is one piece that was roughed cut, then the center trans tunnel opening was trimmed out and finished with a 1/2" radius formed edge in the bead roller. Next, we drew out the pattern for some stiffening ribs and rolled them in. Finally, we used a radius brake to form the sides. The toe board bends at the bottom were hand formed on a big fab table. I am happy to say that it fit the first time. The I.D. of the setback has to be kept at the stock width of the inner fenders so that the hood hinge placement will be in the factory location. Anyway, heres a first look.

[72BBSwinger]

I guess I dont understand what the complications were with the trans? Why not just use a T56 Magnum? Anyway this car looks like gonna be super rigid and tough.

[RobNoLimit]

Bits more progress in the last few days. I've tried three sets of headers, and they fit into one of two groups. A) - won't fit at all. B) - hang's too low. - or both. So, it looks like I'll build a set. I also think I'll fab up the center section of the exhaust before the tunnel goes in for good. I was happy to have made the tunnel on the first try, and the fit is really nice. To fit the firewall, which I had put a 1/4 round edge around the opening, I first had to shrink the edge in to get the aproach angle, then used a bead roller to flare out the 1/4 round to meet the firwall.

[DTM Racing]

Very nice. Better put the hammer down, Chris already has his painted!

[Cris@JCG]

Should be @ the So Cal Challenge in Oct...


Very nice. Better put the hammer down, Chris already has his painted!

[Cris@JCG]

Looking forward to letting me take a spin in this one Rob! great work as always...

[gotstang]

RobNoLimit

I Like what You are doing on the Challenger Keep up the good Work and keep the pictures coming of the progress . Gotstang

[RobNoLimit]

It may look like I'm skipping around a bit, and maybe I am, but trust me, I do have a plan. Over the past 10 years or so I have focused a lot on what I consider 'packaging'. There are some components of a car that MUST to be a in a certain position, a certain shape, a size ... and we don't want to compromise on these items in anyway that would hurt performance, drivability, ride quality or the like. Then there are what I call the support systems. Things like brake lines, fuel lines, wiring exhaust, fuel tank, cooling systems..... All of these things also have to be part of the build, but there is a bit more creative room here. And thats where planning and packaging come into play. I spend a lot of thought time during a build thinking about where the brake and fuel ines will be, the tank, battery, and exhaust. We build our own tanks, they can be any shape, I'm pretty good at plumbing brake & fuel lines, but there has to be a pathway for them, batteries are a fixed size and shape, but we can mount them anywhere that makes sense....... and so on.
So, for the Challenger here, no compromise on suspension design, safety, or driveability. Also, I hate seeing a bunch of crap hanging under a car. Can't have it. No no no. In working on the trans tunnel and floor, I realized it would be much easier to fab the center section of the exhaust before I started welding in the tunnel. We are going with a offset three link, so some of that is in the way of the exhaust as well. Here is the 'must have' list. The chassis is 4" tall, so 3" max exhaust hieght (1" min from floor to exhaust), needs to transition from the center of the X outboard of the third link bracing, must drop to 2" total hieght to pass under the third link brace, must have an 'X' or 'H' for sound and torque., must have driveshaft clearance, min gas flow passage is 4.90" sq. (same as 2 1/2" tube), allow for clearance of future brake and fuel lines and batt cables, AND, be easy to install from under the car. Having a checklist makes it easier to meet the goal. Thinking outside the box, or better yet, cutting up the box and using the cardboard for a template, may lead to a packaging solution way different that you thought at first. Here you have it.

[RobNoLimit]

In the chassis, it fits nice and it fills all the boxes on the checklist. The bottom of the transfer box is flush with the bottom of the chassis. There is 1"+ floor clearance, and good clearance all around. The inlets and outlets will be fitted with V-bands for connecting to the head and tail pipes. So now I'll fab up some mounts, and the rear sections of the head pipes, then I can get back to the floor.

I just don't know what to call it.

[mmosley]

How about an X-Box...

[GrabberGT]

Thats just absolutely nuts.... BUT I DIG IT!

[shane38]

It may look like I'm skipping around a bit, and maybe I am, but trust me, I do have a plan. Over the past 10 years or so I have focused a lot on what I consider 'packaging'. There are some components of a car that MUST to be a in a certain position, a certain shape, a size ... and we don't want to compromise on these items in anyway that would hurt performance, drivability, ride quality or the like. Then there are what I call the support systems. Things like brake lines, fuel lines, wiring exhaust, fuel tank, cooling systems..... All of these things also have to be part of the build, but there is a bit more creative room here. And thats where planning and packaging come into play. I spend a lot of thought time during a build thinking about where the brake and fuel ines will be, the tank, battery, and exhaust. We build our own tanks, they can be any shape, I'm pretty good at plumbing brake & fuel lines, but there has to be a pathway for them, batteries are a fixed size and shape, but we can mount them anywhere that makes sense....... and so on.
So, for the Challenger here, no compromise on suspension design, safety, or driveability. Also, I hate seeing a bunch of crap hanging under a car. Can't have it. No no no. In working on the trans tunnel and floor, I realized it would be much easier to fab the center section of the exhaust before I started welding in the tunnel. We are going with a offset three link, so some of that is in the way of the exhaust as well. Here is the 'must have' list. The chassis is 4" tall, so 3" max exhaust hieght (1" min from floor to exhaust), needs to transition from the center of the X outboard of the third link bracing, must drop to 2" total hieght to pass under the third link brace, must have an 'X' or 'H' for sound and torque., must have driveshaft clearance, min gas flow passage is 4.90" sq. (same as 2 1/2" tube), allow for clearance of future brake and fuel lines and batt cables, AND, be easy to install from under the car. Having a checklist makes it easier to meet the goal. Thinking outside the box, or better yet, cutting up the box and using the cardboard for a template, may lead to a packaging solution way different that you thought at first. Here you have it.



bitching!!

now i wanta make my own mufflers lol

[72BBSwinger]

WTFF? Get er dun!

[LM7_67]

Wow, that thing is crazy. W-pipe?

[High Plains Mopars]

I had to make my own mufflers once in a truck that I just couldn't get to quiet down without using multiple resonators. It actually isn't too hard to do and it certainly has a wow factor when people look at it. FWIW, my home made muffler did help significantly with highway droning. Did I give up some power with it, probably, but it was still cool.

[RobNoLimit]

The whole reason for building this crossover is so I could fit the rear section of the head pipes. This is going to be a lot easier without the tunnel in place. I fab these from std exhaust tubing and 2 1/2" mandrel U-bends. I needed a 1/2" step up, and then a 28 degree bend out. From here forward to the header is not to tough. The underside pict looks a little off kilter, but trust me, there nice and even. From the rear you can see some of the fitment issues.

[PhillipM]

I'm so interested to hear that muffler!

[Bryce]

I'm so interested to hear that muffler!

same here

[brawls43]

Loving this project! Are you going to use the wide 5 hubs? That would look sweet!

[RobNoLimit]

More progress. As the floor progresses, we need to place the seat and belt mounts. We got a test seat from Cerrullo and had the car owner come out for a fitment. Things are a bit close, as Jason is a bit taller than normal. I guess the longer arm is how you get a 100 mph fast ball. We tested on the passenger side (it was just easier) for seat height, front to rear slider placement, and headroom. With a little tip in the seat base, and the recline adjusted, we found the sweet spot and tacken in a brace. This will be a big step forward as I can use the seating position to set the pedals and column, and with the seat and belt mounts in place, we can finish the floor.

[dangina]

great work so far! I'm loving some of the ideas here..

[RobNoLimit]

One step closer. This is not such a big deal if your running an LS, or the normal SBC, but for the new Hemi, not so simple. After trying four set of headers, with no luck, it was time to make a move. the decision came down to A) Fab a full set of long tube headers. or B) Start with the best fitting set, and modify. The upside of option 'B' far out-weighed the 'A' option. Yes, we are giving up a few HP, but reasonably, only at higher rpm. Starter, clutch mech. steering.... all came into play. We started with a set of stainless 1 3/4" headers from Headman. They have a nice 3/8" thick flange and the port/tube weld was finished up and port matched (to the OE gasket) from the manufacturer. The drivers side required two tubes to be relocated, while the passenger side only needed one. On other shop projects currently going on here, like Tina's Mustang, the header install took 30 minutes. These took up two months of ordering, waiting, and testing, and then two days of fab time. I am hoping that this is one of the last big hurdles to clear, and that we can pick up the pace now.

[DTM Racing]

LOL...Welcome to my world. Mopars....Not for the faint of heart.

[mmosley]

LOL...Welcome to my world. Mopars....Not for the faint of heart.

So you are telling me that there are cars out there that have headers or other aftermarket parts that fit without modifications? What is that like?

From front to rear... off the top of my head. Just a few examples.

Frame had to be modified so the radiator could fit... when the MFG sent me the first one (as in the first one EVER made for my body style) it did not even come close to fitting. I had them send me the print since they did not believe me. I made notes on the print where the Engineer had not made a dimension clear and left it open for intepretation. The fabricator interpreted something different than the designer intended. I corrected the drawing and sent it, along with the radiator back. Even then, had to notch the pinch weld on the frame and weld the seam, but at least that was as advertised. MFG does not sell this radiator as a catalog part, by request only, due to this requirement.

Motor mounts... driver side sat 3/16" too high. Used a level... notched K-frame ears to allow the mount to sit lower, then had to trim the corner to clear the oil pump.

Milodon road race oil pan... notched K-frame and removed corners of the K-frame mount ears to clear the pan. That and a little more welding...

Headers... really? 2" "bolt in" headers did not clear in about three places and needed some strategic hammer adjustment. They burned any plug boot that dared come close to a spark plug. The "good fitting" tri-y headers only require grinding part of the block for clearance. Next set in this car I will make myself.

Intake... Edelbrock RPM fit perfectly after taking 0.110" off both mounting surfaces. My "new" intake manifold is a discontinued Chrysler part number that has not been made since maybe 1971. When I asked about EFI conversion for it the Mopar guy on the other end of the phone had never seen one in person before and was actually excited about doing the work. As of now it is 1 of 1 with this EFI conversion.

Only Cheetah makes a auto shifter that actually is designed to bring the cable in from the back. The others are a pain. The Cheetah is pretty much race only, not what I wanted, so had to make do with what was available. I am not sure there is a way to route the cable that keeps it from getting burnt. Well at least I don't have to worry about that anymore with a six speed...

Speaking of six speeds... No one makes a kit for this car... so, bought a kit made for a small block car to work with the Ford version of the T-56 Magnum. Several folks told me that it "might" not work for a big block and the GM version of the T-56 Magnum. Of course it worked... perfectly... after sectioning, redesigning, and fabricating additional pieces to make the rear trans mount work.

Fuel tank... design your own, have Rick's Tanks build it for you.

Want to hear the latest joke? I asked a guy about wheels at one of the local establishments. He asked for year, make, and model so he could check his fitment database. Sure... he has not replied back yet. It has been a few months now... should I call him back?

I can't imagine what it would be like to have something like an AMC, a Hudson, or something really oddball or rare. Mopars are hard enough to find parts for, at least some folks out there are trying. Some parts like bumpers, trim parts, tail lights and stuff are at least made now where 10 years ago they were not.

[DTM Racing]

So you are telling me that there are cars out there that have headers or other aftermarket parts that fit without modifications? What is that like?

From front to rear... off the top of my head. Just a few examples.

Frame had to be modified so the radiator could fit... when the MFG sent me the first one (as in the first one EVER made for my body style) it did not even come close to fitting. I had them send me the print since they did not believe me. I made notes on the print where the Engineer had not made a dimension clear and left it open for intepretation. The fabricator interpreted something different than the designer intended. I corrected the drawing and sent it, along with the radiator back. Even then, had to notch the pinch weld on the frame and weld the seam, but at least that was as advertised. MFG does not sell this radiator as a catalog part, by request only, due to this requirement.

Motor mounts... driver side sat 3/16" too high. Used a level... notched K-frame ears to allow the mount to sit lower, then had to trim the corner to clear the oil pump.

Milodon road race oil pan... notched K-frame and removed corners of the K-frame mount ears to clear the pan. That and a little more welding...

Headers... really? 2" "bolt in" headers did not clear in about three places and needed some strategic hammer adjustment. They burned any plug boot that dared come close to a spark plug. The "good fitting" tri-y headers only require grinding part of the block for clearance. Next set in this car I will make myself.

Intake... Edelbrock RPM fit perfectly after taking 0.110" off both mounting surfaces. My "new" intake manifold is a discontinued Chrysler part number that has not been made since maybe 1971. When I asked about EFI conversion for it the Mopar guy on the other end of the phone had never seen one in person before and was actually excited about doing the work. As of now it is 1 of 1 with this EFI conversion.

Only Cheetah makes a auto shifter that actually is designed to bring the cable in from the back. The others are a pain. The Cheetah is pretty much race only, not what I wanted, so had to make do with what was available. I am not sure there is a way to route the cable that keeps it from getting burnt. Well at least I don't have to worry about that anymore with a six speed...

Speaking of six speeds... No one makes a kit for this car... so, bought a kit made for a small block car to work with the Ford version of the T-56 Magnum. Several folks told me that it "might" not work for a big block and the GM version of the T-56 Magnum. Of course it worked... perfectly... after sectioning, redesigning, and fabricating additional pieces to make the rear trans mount work.

Fuel tank... design your own, have Rick's Tanks build it for you.

Want to hear the latest joke? I asked a guy about wheels at one of the local establishments. He asked for year, make, and model so he could check his fitment database. Sure... he has not replied back yet. It has been a few months now... should I call him back?

I can't imagine what it would be like to have something like an AMC, a Hudson, or something really oddball or rare. Mopars are hard enough to find parts for, at least some folks out there are trying. Some parts like bumpers, trim parts, tail lights and stuff are at least made now where 10 years ago they were not.

That about sums up one day at my shop.

[brawls43]

How did this project turn out? Any more updates?