External Surge Tank and Cheap EFI Tank?

[ChevelleNV]

Ok, So I have been scouring the internet looking for a cheap and reliable EFI fuel tank solution for my Chevelle project. And I think I stumbled across a viable solution and want to hear any and all opinions!

So my initial thoughts are to use a Spectra Fuel Tank and a 034 Motorsports Surge-tank which I just ran across @ http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-injection-solutions-fuel-pumps-fully-enclosed-fp34-044-fuel-surge-tank-p-21527.html

I know the Spectra tank has starvation issues, but I feel the pump should be enough to feed the surge-tank, So lets hear your thoughts on the subject!

[Chevy Kid]

I'm running basically the same type of system in my Nova. Works great. I have a stock tank with a small transfer pump. The engine is a TBI 350.

Tim

[dhutton]

I am using a similar solution in my GTO with a 5 litre SARD surge tank and Spectra tank. I am also running an Aeromotive fuel pump controller to limit fuel heating due to two pumps.

Edit: I have not finished the car so I cannot comment on how well it works. I know these SARD surge tanks are used in drifting so I think it should work well.

[ChevelleNV]

So do either of you guys do any Auto crossing? Had any starvation issues at all in hard cornering with these setups?

If you had to re-do your fuel system now would you have done anything different?

[andrewb70]

So what would you use as the transfer pump?

Andrew

[ChevelleNV]

So what would you use as the transfer pump?

Andrew

I would assume I could use the internal pump from the spectra tank.

[andrewb70]

I would assume I could use the internal pump from the spectra tank.

I am not sure that you will save any money by doing all that.

The Spectre tank is 400? The surge tank with the Bosch pump is $500 by the time you add fittings and mounts. So that's $900. How much is a Rick's tank?

For a low cost solution I would check out the B-body tank. Some guys have used them with upgraded pumps. They are plastic and require some trunk floor mods, and cheap.

Conceptually I see nothing wrong with that setup.

[ChevelleNV]

I am not sure that you will save any money by doing all that.

The Spectre tank is 400? The surge tank with the Bosch pump is $500 by the time you add fittings and mounts. So that's $900. How much is a Rick's tank?

For a low cost solution I would check out the B-body tank. Some guys have used them with upgraded pumps. They are plastic and require some trunk floor mods, and cheap.

Conceptually I see nothing wrong with that setup.

From what I have gathered a ricks tank with the vapor works mods and pumps, etc. will end up costing in the $1700 to $2000 range. And I would very much like to keep a stock configuration as much as possible so cutting the floor pan for the b-body fuel tank is out of the question.

My main goal with this configuration was to find a complete fueling solution for around a 1000.00 and I think this does just that.

The toughest part of this solution in my mind is figuring out where to put the surge tank....

[andrewb70]

From what I have gathered a ricks tank with the vapor works mods and pumps, etc. will end up costing in the $1700 to $2000 range. And I would very much like to keep a stock configuration as much as possible so cutting the floor pan for the b-body fuel tank is out of the question.

My main goal with this configuration was to find a complete fueling solution for around a 1000.00 and I think this does just that.

The toughest part of this solution in my mind is figuring out where to put the surge tank....

Greg,

I had no idea that the Rick's tank was that expensive. Do you need the Vapor Works setup? As I understand it Vapor Works uses a CTSV dual pump set-up with a PWM controller. If you need all that, then I understand, but if you just need a single Walbro 255 or a Bosch, then the whole Vapor Works setup is overkill.

When I was building my GTO, 10 years ago, there weren't many options for internal pump fuel systems. I got a new, stock replacement tank, and had Rock Valley modify it with one of their sumps. The set-up has worked very well over the years. That might be an options for you.

This can be another option:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354984

I was actually thinking about where you could mount the surge tank. Along the frame rail wouldn't be a bad spot.

Andrew

[ChevelleNV]

When I was building my GTO, 10 years ago, there weren't many options for internal pump fuel systems. I got a new, stock replacement tank, and had Rock Valley modify it with one of their sumps. The set-up has worked very well over the years. That might be an options for you.

Andrew , do have any pictures of what was done to your tank, and how much do you have tied up in your system?, and does it have any starvation issues when you auto-x it? My whole deal is I am going to auto-x and road race the car, so I don't want any starvation issues when cornering. and it seems like all the solutions other that the ricks tanks or a tank with a internal surge pump have these issues.

I looked at the Tanks, Inc. sump setup during my re-search. been looking at this whole tank issue for quite some time. seems there's a lot of ideas on how to do it but no real definitive answer on a really solid system other than cutting a fat check to Ricks tanks. I was really hoping I could find a bolt on solution. you would think there are enough people doing this that someone would have engineered a viable and reasonably priced solution.

But I will reserve my final decision until after the SEMA show and see whats truly out there in the aftermarket.

[rocketrod]

FYI - The Ricks tank is $1195 plus S&H. You will also need a regulator and lines from tank to engine, but you will need this regardless of the the setup you go with.

[ChevelleNV]

FYI - The Ricks tank is $1195 plus S&H. You will also need a regulator and lines from tank to engine, but you will need this regardless of the the setup you go with.
Yes one of Rick's base tanks will cost that, then you also need to add for the vapoworks mods and the new pump (i think they are now using a 2010 Camero pump which has an internal surge pump) and after all that it is more like 1600+ from what I have heard, I think the Rick's tank is a beautiful work of art, just out of my budget.

[andrewb70]

Greg,

I wish I had some pictures of my tank, but I will do my best to describe it. Rock Valley has a concentric baffle insert. The fuel pump is wrapped inside a sheet metal spiral. Does that make sense?

The insert then sits inside a little "tub" that was added to the bottom of my tank. The reason for the tub is that the stock 68-72 a-body tanks are not very deep. The baffle and pump need about 7.5" so the little tub (sump) was added to the bottom of the tank. The tank is all black and most people don't even notice it.

I have never experienced any sort of fuel starvation issues. However, I tend to keep my tank topped off during events. However, during street driving I do take the fuel level fairly low and I've never had a stumble in a corner.

As I recall, the whole thing cost about $800, back around 2000. That includes a stock replacement tank, Walbro 255 pump, and the modifications that were done by Rock Valley. Obviously the tank is not stainless, but I had mine powder coated, so figure another $50 for that.

Here is a link to their catalog page that has a basic picture. The PN with the Holley high volume pump is the Walbro option.

http://www.rockvalleyantiqueautoparts.com/catalog/tune_port_info_and_kits.pdf

Andrew

[rocketrod]

The price was based on the tank I just order for my LS2 conversion. The vaporworx tank is more, but I didnt ask how much. I would guess another $300-$400 more.

[ChevelleNV]

The price was based on the tank I just order for my LS2 conversion. The vaporworx tank is more, but I didnt ask how much. I would guess another $300-$400 more.
So which pump is your tank coming with? is it the one with the built-in surge tank?

[ChevelleNV]

I just got an answer form Ricks for the tank I was thinking about with the vapor-works mod with multiple pickups, a Cadillac CTSV fuel pump assembly with surge pump is $1795.00 like I had originally estimated.

[Chevy Kid]

So do either of you guys do any Auto crossing? Had any starvation issues at all in hard cornering with these setups?

If you had to re-do your fuel system now would you have done anything different?

No auto crossing, just cruising. I have run the tank down low on trips. I think I would incorporate an in tank pump. I have TBI which makes it challenging because of the low pressure. New style modules wont work. My present system works flawless, however.


So what would you use as the transfer pump?

Andrew
I am using a stock universal pump. Low pressure, about 5 lbs.

[analyte]

I've read about using the 86-87 GN tank in Chevelles. It requires a new fuel pump and modifying the fill spout, but the original straps still work. I'm not sure how the tank is setup inside, but the GN's were EFI from the factory and there are plenty racing without issues.

I'm looking into this option myself.

Kerry

[ChevelleNV]

I've read about using the 86-87 GN tank in Chevelles. It requires a new fuel pump and modifying the fill spout, but the original straps still work. I'm not sure how the tank is setup inside, but the GN's were EFI from the factory and there are plenty racing without issues.

I'm looking into this option myself.

Kerry

Interesting, this is the first I have heard of this. care to share some of your source info on this?

[analyte]

Here's a link to the discussion on the GN tanks at Chevelles.com. You'll have to read down several posts for it to bring up the GN tanks.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334222

Kerry

[ChevelleNV]

Here's a link to the discussion on the GN tanks at Chevelles.com. You'll have to read down several posts for it to bring up the GN tanks.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=334222

Kerry
Interesting, I will have to give this some consideration

[usc2001gc]

I've got the Spectra tank in my 71 Chevelle LS2 and start having starvation issues at anything below 1/2.
I've been thinking about sumping my tank and lowering the pump down into the sump area. Basically cut a hole in the bottom of the tank large enough for the pump and screen to fit through. The top of the sump would be the tank floor and with one hole in it to allow pump to set in the sump, I would think the sump would always stay full. Hate the thought of cutting on my tank, but I'm tired of the dying on hard turns when I'm below 1/2 tank.
Something similar to this.

[ed1le]

Saw this thread stating Spectra has redesigned the bowl where the pump sits to solve the fuel starvation issues..http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358837
Anyone bought one recently that can verify this?

[ChevelleNV]

I've got the Spectra tank in my 71 Chevelle LS2 and start having starvation issues at anything below 1/2.
I've been thinking about sumping my tank and lowering the pump down into the sump area. Basically cut a hole in the bottom of the tank large enough for the pump and screen to fit through. The top of the sump would be the tank floor and with one hole in it to allow pump to set in the sump, I would think the sump would always stay full. Hate the thought of cutting on my tank, but I'm tired of the dying on hard turns when I'm below 1/2 tank.
Something similar to this.


Saw this thread stating Spectra has redesigned the bowl where the pump sits to solve the fuel starvation issues..http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=358837
Anyone bought one recently that can verify this?

This is what I have been hearing all over the net about these tanks, and this is why i think i am going to run the cheap Spectra EFI tank with the surge pump (versus 1800.00 for the good ricks/vaporworks tanks) . it should cure that problem without a lot of custom fab work. And even if they have re-designed the the bowl. I highly doubt it will stand up to the hard cornering and auto crossing without some help.

[Rick@Rick's Hot Rod Shop]

Price increase is mainly for the up charge in the fuel pump Module: Camaro, or CTS V whichever you choose. Our Normal In Tank Pump Tanks Work Quite Well. If you looking to Auto X Check out Brandie in the Spectre Camaro plain jaine off the shelf P/N 3101 upgraded to a Bosch-044 Pump. On the other hand Marry Pozzi's Camaro and Shipka's One Lap are doing quite well with the New Setup. It all comes down to what you really need and how hard you are actually going to push your car no matter what you run for a tank, and or how how you fuel your motor... Sorry for chiming in on your post as i am rarely on the boards anymore but i was doin some searching and ran across this one.

[ChevelleNV]

Price increase is mainly for the up charge in the fuel pump Module: Camaro, or CTS V whichever you choose. Our Normal In Tank Pump Tanks Work Quite Well. If you looking to Auto X Check out Brandie in the Spectre Camaro plain jaine off the shelf P/N 3101 upgraded to a Bosch-044 Pump. On the other hand Marry Pozzi's Camaro and Shipka's One Lap are doing quite well with the New Setup. It all comes down to what you really need and how hard you are actually going to push your car no matter what you run for a tank, and or how how you fuel your motor... Sorry for chiming in on your post as i am rarely on the boards anymore but i was doin some searching and ran across this one.

I am glad you chimed in Rick, trying to get all the pros and cons on running this setup. I know the CTSV pump is around 500.00 which is what makes your tank so much more and as much as I would love to run one of your tanks with the vaporworks mods. it just not in my budget. I do plan on pushing the car hard so I had to come up with a viable and affordable solution that did'nt require me hacking my car up.