horror stories

[band1t]

Is it just me or does anyone else start getting scared about there own car and what may happen
when you go on the track.
when you see a guys rear axle comes sliding out
or seeing someones brakes freeze
I am sure most of you have a lot of horror stories

[Rick Dorion]

When I used to do time trials at Lime Rock, occasionally someone would go off track, one flipped his 240Z, another blew up their motor. This hobby has risks associated with it. It's good to be aware and alert and not drive over your head. But there is a possibility of something going wrong.

[exwestracer]

Absolutely not. The race cars I'm used to dealing with eat themselves up faster than anything short of a top fuel dragster. It's simple...everything has to be right, or you KNOW the car WILL break.
Some things you have to understand without question: What is a good weld. When is a bolt too loose (or too tight). How to tell if a hole is getting sloppy (has nothing to do with giving birth :-}). Is there enough clearance for Heim movement (more on that one later). Are the bushings or Heims worn out. And these things have to be checked...EVERY time. It's unbelievable how many people just don't know to look for these basics. The cars that break are usually the ones owned by people who think that, because they paid so much money for a part, it has an infinite lifespan.

I'll leave you with one example, and then I'll shut up... There was a well known shop in the town I used to live in. I won't use the name because i think the guy is out of prison now and may be trying to turn his life around... Customer comes in with a nice road race Camaro to have the suspension checked and set up for a big SCCA meet. Shop owner tells the customer that he needs all new Heims in the rear 3 link suspension. Car is prepped, goes to the track, and is very loose in the first session. Owner starts playing with shocks, etc. Second session and the car is REALLY loose...owner out of ideas and not having fun anymore. 3rd session, owner tries to muscle thru it and the car breaks and crashes. Car is torn up pretty good... I was there with a different car and went over to have a look at the post-mortem. The shop had apparently lost the cone spacers for link bolts, and some genius had replaced them all with flat washers...Heims can't move, rear axle is bound up, shanks start to bend, and one of the Heims failed. Probably cost the guy 10000... Shop guys didn't know how the Heims worked, or didn't care... Owner didn't know enough to check the right things, or believed that it was set up by the "pros" and had to be right.

You HAVE to know what you are doing...it's that simple.

[daytonayellaz]

All forms of Racing have there risks.... We all know that. As stated above.... EVERYTHING must be checked on a race car. Everyone should have a check list/ maintenance schedule and know what parts to check and when. Our last racing venue was a Allison Legacy car. It was only my son and I. I have a very busy schedule with just work alone. It took every evening of the week of the race for me to go over everything on the car and to have it ready. Racing is without a doubt the the biggest "High" you can get....legally :) Its expensive to build a race car... but the expense just begins at that point. Keep track of the maintenance bill on the car..... if you dare. LOL!

[Derek69SS]

This is why I autocross... far less risk involved. :) (still some risk to the car, but less chance of death/dismemberment)

[Twentyover]

This is why I autocross... far less risk involved. :) (still some risk to the car, but less chance of death/dismemberment)


Don't say this too loud....

AutoX can contain serious risk, especially in prepared cars. Probably 15 years ago a well known and experienced SoCal Autocrosser (I'll use his initials) JC running a well prepared Elan lost his life when running down at the Irvine Amphitheater (then known as Lion Country) lot. The car was fast, and lost throttle return. Before he had time to process the problem and hit the kill switch, he was in the trees.

Construct, borrow, or steal a checklist. Nut and bolt the car. Make sure everything that should be tight is tight, and everything that should be free is free.

[The Stickman]

THere was this one time at Pocono running the north course. You exit the infield at the entrance to pit roadand turn right(backwards into NASCAR turn 3). I was following a Mustang and he got loose the tail came out and he corrected and it caught spinning him around and slamming the wall with the passenger side and now facing me. I had to slow way down which is something I knew I could. The trick was slowing enough not to get hit from behind by a pair of M3's that were going quick and I wasn't sure if they had seen the Mustang spin. It was kinda scary at the time. And got to see how messed up he mustang was back in the pits. But if you want to play these things have to be accepted. I blew the engine at RTTS. I wasn't pissed, infact I had a great big smile just because I got to make the event.

[64impala]

Eye opening thread....the experience here speaks volumes and helps new pt builders like myself aware of all aspects of this hobby. Thanks

[oestek]

Construct, borrow, or steal a checklist. Nut and bolt the car. Make sure everything that should be tight is tight, and everything that should be free is free.

Good idea... anyone care to post / share their list?

[Vicinity]

Don't say this too loud....

AutoX can contain serious risk, especially in prepared cars. Probably 15 years ago a well known and experienced SoCal Autocrosser (I'll use his initials) JC running a well prepared Elan lost his life when running down at the Irvine Amphitheater (then known as Lion Country) lot. The car was fast, and lost throttle return. Before he had time to process the problem and hit the kill switch, he was in the trees.

Construct, borrow, or steal a checklist. Nut and bolt the car. Make sure everything that should be tight is tight, and everything that should be free is free.

x100000

I just went over my car and noticed my intake bolts were loose.

All of them.

[NOT A TA]

My first track day I arrived late due to ignition module going out in the tow vehicle at 6 AM when I was supposed to leave. Arriving late at the track a (previously) nice Porsche was on a flatbed headed out smashed badly. I thought Hmmmmmm......I was there to learn and not try to drive like the cops were chasing me so I kept my speeds within my and my cars abilities while witnessing more carnage as the day went by.

During my last session I picked up my pace a bit, but still felt I was staying well within my limits (and the cars). Near the end of the session I came up on a very nice Ferrari that had given me a point by at the beginning of the session and thought it was kinda cool that a 40 year old Pontiac could gain a full lap on such a car. I followed the car a couple lengths back knowing a passing zone would come up. Instead of giving me a point by at the beginning of the first straight (designated passing zone) the driver seemed to be avoiding giving me another point (being lapped) by trying to go faster (could easily pull me on the straights) and the Ferrari spun going into the first corner. The car ended up on the grass to the inside of the corner and hit the backside of the angled curbing ruining all four wheels and tires, ripping the exhaust off etc. and then sliding across the track to the outside of the turn.

I responded by standing on the brakes (knowing there was no one right behind) keeping the car headed straight toward a runoff in case I needed it until my car had slowed a lot. Checking mirrors again I drove straight across the dirt/grass debris on the track as the flags came out. Used the rest of the lap as cool down knowing the session was about done anyway. My instructor about had a heart attack thinking I'd crash along with the Ferrari (with only lap belts) and commented on how I'd done the right things during the incident. Back in the pits later I saw the car and decided there was more damage to the Ferrari than my car was worth.

Knowing that I was likely to continue tracking my car and the possibility of balling the car up eventually is VERY real I keep that in mind with any upgrades. I don't spend time/money on stuff that isn't mostly performance or safety. I've put 2 wheels off a couple times and 4 off once. Luckily, no damage so far.

I applaud Bill for trying to get folks out to driver instruction for track events. The better trained the drivers are the safer everyone will stay. Eventually, one of the high profile members here will wreck hard and it will be a wake up call to those who think it can't happen to them. We saw the damage to Ron's Mustang which was relatively minor for a track incident. Things can happen in the blink of an eye at high speed. Remember folks always look ahead, that includes through the car in front of you if possible.

I'll just leave this here, the third time you watch it you'll see what I'm talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlHfGGgTVsc

[Scott Parkhurst]

I respect what I'm doing, and the others I'm out there doing it with. I make sure my stuff is good and don't push it to the edge every single time.

I think this is one of the benefits of owning a non-mainstream car like my wagon where I'm not going to be challenging for the top spot at any and every event. I know it's too big and heavy to be quick, and the wheelbase is too long to handle extremely well. I know I don't have the talent to push it too hard, and I have nothing to gain by doing so.

That being said, I am getting better with seat time and the car is more predictable and safe with the better tuning we're able to give it.

I go to these events to enjoy myself and put my car through the paces, trying to improve a bit every time. I'm not trying to break any records.

I've had to deal with some on-track moments, and all have been drama free. I lost an engine at Road America, lost my throttle linkage at Autobahn, and have had others spin out in front of me. Never an issue or problem.

It feels a lot like SCUBA diving to me. I'm a certified diver and when going through training, you learn to just focus on the task at hand and not to panic. You remove and replace your mask, breathing apparatus, weight belt, etc. without issue during training and it becomes second-nature. No need to stress out, since you know what you're doing and it'll be fine. I feel the same way on the track when things get dicey. Just relax, get out of the groove, and to the shoulder as quickly and smoothly as possible.

As an guy who's made a slew of passes down the dragstrip, I've never understood the 'never lift' mentality displayed by so many during failed runs out there. If you don't have a championship on the line (or even if you do) why fight to complete a pass at WOT if its already a bust? Just let it go, gather it up, and do it better next time. The same mentality exists at these events for me. If you screw up, or get into some trouble for whatever reason, just gather it up and stay safe.

[mpozzi]

Being involved more with Solo instead of track events, I've also seen crashes both from drivers running out of talent and from mechanical breakdown. It's (almost) a given that if you're around the cars long enough, these kinds of issues can happen.

For me, it's pretty simple. I listen. A lot. Is the noise normal for the car and appropriate for what I'm doing with it at that moment? Is the noise getting worse or louder? This alone has saved me twice in the last month ...

Just "powering through" or forcing a car to accelerate, slow down, and get around a corner isn't a good call if you know things aren't right in the first place. Cars can't reason, they don't have "bad days" or PMS (one Midol per 18 gallons of the golden stuff works wonders), and when they don't behave as we'd like, there's usually a legitimate reason why.

The worst autocross mishap I saw was a B Prepared Corvette going underneath the barrier chain link fence, into and out of a drainage ditch, and ending up on the main, active four lane traffic road next to the fairground lot. The air cleaner stud vibrated loose and somehow fell down and into the carb. Got lodged against the venturi and throttle plate and the driver went for a nice ride. Only thing that saved him was the car had a full cage so the bottom of the chain link rode up the nose of the 'Vette, then up over the front of the cage and down the back leaving the driver unscathed and still with a head connected to a neck!

That's also why I'm very reluctant to take passengers at track events. If I do something really bonehead or something breaks causing me to crash, it's me alone.

Mary Pozzi

[ZuperZport]

Good idea... anyone care to post / share their list?

Check out "Joe's Racing".

http://www.joesracing.com

Go to the "Knowledge Center" link in the top tool bar.

You will need to "register" to their site (free) --- a great idea anyway as Joe's offers some terrific products.

There is a "Car Prep Check List" - a great source for going over your car from bumper to bumper.

Besides the aforementioned check list there are a bunch of other very useful, free downloads (i.e. - Chassis Set Ups, Shocks, etc.).

Many thanks to Joe's Racing. Great products and racing knowledge!

[David Pozzi]

Learn to walk before you run.
Learn to autocross pretty well before trying open track.

It's a lot easier to learn with lower horsepower & good handling & brakes. Have someone experienced drive your car & verify it is set up well enough to learn with.

Spend some money on good safety equipment, -cheaper than a hospital stay.

[bret]

In my mind...the track is likely safer than the street for a couple of reasons:
1. everyone is going the same direction on the track
2. its a safe bet that no one is drunk or texting on the track
3. USUALLY there are fewer obstructions to hit on the track
4. YOU are actually paying attention on the track and not daydreaming about hotrods/beer/women

Having said all that...the tips above are VERY valid...pay attention...think...anticipate...check...check again...have someone check your checklist.

Like most things...it's mostly common sense.

[David Pozzi]

When people ask me how I'm brave enough to run on a race track, I reply with something close to Bret's statement. It's a lot safer than driving like Mario Andretti on some back road. I've had more scares on the street than a race track.
David

[M.P.G.]

Correct me if im wrong, but I think band1t is mostly talking about the car, not the risk on his life. lol atleast thats what I got from his post.

and if thats the ? then hell yea im always worried about my car when I go to the dragstrip or opentrack. I always have limited funds for my car and I dont own a shop so it would suck if something real bad happend. so far no horror stories. (knock wood.)

[exwestracer]

Good idea... anyone care to post / share their list?

Not trying to be a smartass, but if you don't know what to put on a checklist for your own car; you need to spend some more time at the races before getting serious about doing it yourself.

Sorry if this hurts anyone's feelings, and oestek I'm not speaking to you personally.

A generic checklist is a good start, but you should know what is likely to fail / need maintenance on YOUR ride, because what gets left off the list gets ignored by the crew.

[69fbodyproject]

After my off track incident autocrossing it doesnt bother me, just fix it and get back racing. That one was about a 4500 dollor oops, but its only money so who cares.

[DarkBuddha]

After my off track incident autocrossing it doesnt bother me, just fix it and get back racing. That one was about a 4500 dollor oops, but its only money so who cares.
That's pretty much my opinion as well... build it, drive it, and if it breaks, fix/build it better. Of course, the old saying "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" completely applies... don't get in over your head, check, double check, inspect, double inspect, torque and retorque. But still things will wear and break, and when they do, just fix 'em and get back out there.

[Derek69SS]

Don't say this too loud....

AutoX can contain serious risk, especially in prepared cars. Probably 15 years ago a well known and experienced SoCal Autocrosser (I'll use his initials) JC running a well prepared Elan lost his life when running down at the Irvine Amphitheater (then known as Lion Country) lot. The car was fast, and lost throttle return. Before he had time to process the problem and hit the kill switch, he was in the trees.

Construct, borrow, or steal a checklist. Nut and bolt the car. Make sure everything that should be tight is tight, and everything that should be free is free.

I'm definitely not discounting the fact that something very bad CAN happen in autocross, but I think it's far less likely to have catastrophic or deadly results if/when it does happen. At the sites that I autocross at, there aren't many immovable objects like trees to worry about, but I've seen some incidents with damage, including a close call where corner workers were narrowly missed (high powered EVO w/ launch-control that veered way off course when his right side tires got into the "marbles" which rotated the car quickly and violently straight toward the cone pickers), saw one car slide sideways into a sign post, and several go through chain-link fences.

These were all driver-errors though... a checklist, while very important, can't prevent these types of incidents. Being aware of the hazards around you and realistic about your driving abilities is just as critical. Running out of talent in the wrong place can be quite a costly, or potentially deadly mistake.

[454bug]

You still have to respect an autocross as well as the road courses... If someone drives outside their abilities or wants to show off, it can have terrible consequences...

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Even without light poles and such, there are things that can be hit... like course workers, spectators, and/or cars parked along the sides of the course!

BE CAREFUL!!

[TheJDMan]

I'll leave you with one example, and then I'll shut up... There was a well known shop in the town I used to live in. I won't use the name because i think the guy is out of prison now and may be trying to turn his life around... Customer comes in with a nice road race Camaro to have the suspension checked and set up for a big SCCA meet. Shop owner tells the customer that he needs all new Heims in the rear 3 link suspension. Car is prepped, goes to the track, and is very loose in the first session. Owner starts playing with shocks, etc. Second session and the car is REALLY loose...owner out of ideas and not having fun anymore. 3rd session, owner tries to muscle thru it and the car breaks and crashes. Car is torn up pretty good... I was there with a different car and went over to have a look at the post-mortem. The shop had apparently lost the cone spacers for link bolts, and some genius had replaced them all with flat washers...Heims can't move, rear axle is bound up, shanks start to bend, and one of the Heims failed. Probably cost the guy 10000... Shop guys didn't know how the Heims worked, or didn't care... Owner didn't know enough to check the right things, or believed that it was set up by the "pros" and had to be right.
You HAVE to know what you are doing...it's that simple.

This is a good example of driver responsibility. If the car does not feel right, don't keep pushing it. There is something wrong and the car is not going to fix it's self. The shop made mistakes but the car gave the driver two opportunities to stop and find out what the problem was. The third time was the drivers fault for failing to pay attention to what the car was telling him.