Anybody here has Mast motorsports engine ? [Archive]

pw2006

07-27-2011, 05:21 AM

I have their LS3 Black Label in another project. I am hoping to fire it up later this week, but as of today, I cannot provide any feedback. They use top quality components, dyno each engine before shipping and also provide a warranty. I'm hoping to fire it up this weekend, but it is probably a month away before I am driving it.

rayy

07-27-2011, 06:31 PM

Very good stuff!!!! DSE also uses there stuff in there cars the 69 and the Nove both have Mast power. Being in the same town as these guys I have seen them beat on there engines with no problems at all.

formula

07-28-2011, 12:19 PM

They are great STREET engines.

dontlifttoshift

07-28-2011, 01:08 PM

Wes, care to expand on that thought for us?

The WidowMaker

07-28-2011, 05:34 PM

im interested as well. ive heard some good and only one bad. plan to use it for the street and RTTx type events. im currently looking at the black label 416.

killer67

07-28-2011, 06:41 PM

IMO, you could build a cheaper engine with great parts that would do the same thing if not better....

Yelcamino

07-29-2011, 03:43 AM

IMO, you could build a cheaper engine with great parts that would do the same thing if not better....

For carb'd engines I completely agree. After reading the info on Mast's web, I assume a big part of the engine cost is the R&D that goes into the computer programing so the engine runs like a factory engine (with more power obviously).

Hard parts alone, yeah you can put together an engine for less money, but I doubt driving around town for a week or two with a laptop will create programing on par with what Mast includes for the price.

The WidowMaker

07-29-2011, 04:24 PM

For carb'd engines I completely agree. After reading the info on Mast's web, I assume a big part of the engine cost is the R&D that goes into the computer programing so the engine runs like a factory engine (with more power obviously).

Hard parts alone, yeah you can put together an engine for less money, but I doubt driving around town for a week or two with a laptop will create programing on par with what Mast includes for the price.

i started this project with the idea of doing everything myself. now ive decided to farm out the paint and the motor. the motor decision was based on what you said; it may be cheaper, but not by much. frank has a good option on the motor as well thats a few grand cheaper, but the mast ecm keeps drawing me back.

Patrick

07-29-2011, 05:53 PM

I have no experience with Mast but I did hear from a friend that Kyle littered the track at VIR with engine parts.....guess it could happen to anyone???

The WidowMaker

07-29-2011, 09:27 PM

but I did hear from a friend that Kyle littered the track at VIR with engine parts

the dse cars are one reason im leaning towards mast. if thats true.........

Bowtie racing

07-31-2011, 08:22 PM

vstol

08-01-2011, 10:38 AM

Thanks guys!! I have been looking stock gm crate motor but even with an cam change only,price is allmost same as some of mast motors with a lot more power. And right tune and dyno sheet is big bonus for my project.

I would be interested to see what GM crate motor you were looking at that is $$$ compatible with a MAST engine with more HP. I started a thread where I was looking at the GM crate motor LS-3 515hp/carb and thought when I looked at the MAST engines we were talking several thousand dollars apart. What did I miss?

vstol

08-03-2011, 02:27 PM

i started this project with the idea of doing everything myself. now ive decided to farm out the paint and the motor. the motor decision was based on what you said; it may be cheaper, but not by much. frank has a good option on the motor as well thats a few grand cheaper, but the mast ecm keeps drawing me back.

What is it about a MAST ECM that makes it worth the extra $$$ over a GM ECM? Thanks

formula

08-04-2011, 11:41 AM

Wes, care to expand on that thought for us?

It is my personal opinion that, while a great company with a bright future ahead, they still have some learning to do before I would run their engines in a truly dedicated race environment. The occasional autocross and hot lap should be no trouble, though.

dontlifttoshift

08-04-2011, 11:55 AM

It is my personal opinion that, while a great company with a bright future ahead, they still have some learning to do before I would run their engines in a truly dedicated race environment. The occasional autocross and hot lap should be no trouble, though.

Fair enough. I take it you saw one or heard of one that came apart. Was a cause determined? There are a lot of moving parts in an engine and i am always interested in what may cause failures.

The WidowMaker

08-05-2011, 05:50 PM

What is it about a MAST ECM that makes it worth the extra $$$ over a GM ECM? Thanks

im still researching and not an expert but i do have a few reasons. first, as far as ive been told, the harness is built for their motor and nothing needs to be added or terminated making it easier and cleaner to route. it also comes with their software which (again ive been told....) makes tuning easier than the programs available for the gm ecm. this is a plus for home tuners, but seems to be a negative for professionals that are familar with hp tuners and efi live. i personally want to learn to tune and havent looked into the difficulty of the other programs. lastly, if youre running their ecm, youre probably also running one of their camshafts since they have lots of dyno info to back them up. this means you can order your ecm with a tune very close to whats needed. it will need to be tweaked, but its going to be closer than a stock ls3 tune for a big cam 416.

Fair enough. I take it you saw one or heard of one that came apart. Was a cause determined? There are a lot of moving parts in an engine and i am always interested in what may cause failures.

sorry to continue to hijack, but id like to hear some more opinions on quality and other options as well (wegner, prodigy etc.). im still trying to find guys using these motors hard but have failed to find anyone but dse. does anyone know what prompted dse's switch from wegner to mast? when i talked to dse last year they were installing kyles new motor and sending at least one other back to mast to be "refreshed". i dont really find that to be a negative since i doubt they get any easy miles. ive also read that guys have had trouble getting help once the motor was installed.

Vegas69

08-05-2011, 08:27 PM

You beat stuff up, it breaks.... That will NEVER change. Some just last alot longer than others.

The WidowMaker

08-08-2011, 03:45 PM

anybody? mast, wegner, hke, prodigy

Bowtie racing

08-15-2011, 10:38 AM

I would be interested to see what GM crate motor you were looking at that is $$$ compatible with a MAST engine with more HP. I started a thread where I was looking at the GM crate motor LS-3 515hp/carb and thought when I looked at the MAST engines we were talking several thousand dollars apart. What did I miss?

505 hp LS7 vs Mast black label 630 hp .

itsadryheat79

08-15-2011, 11:18 AM

So far - I am very happy with my engine - lots of DSE parts on this build - look to my signature for a breakdown of parts used including the Mast Motorsports LS7 427 SS

vstol

08-18-2011, 10:43 AM

505 hp LS7 vs Mast black label 630 hp .

I think that is an apple to an orange

tommycomfort

08-18-2011, 01:33 PM

Here's my $0.02
We have a Mast cam, ecm/harness and oil pan on the L92 that we are running in our 66. We're now on our second L92 since we spun a bearing the weekend after the Motorstate challenge. Is the spun bearing Mast's fault? That would be quite a stretch on an engine that is regularly run on a road course and even more often run to my limits on the auto-x. Is the fact that DSE killed an engine at VIR the result of a Mast problem? Most likely not. I am totally convinced that we're using these motors to the extreme and that leads to failure. The Mast engines that DSE uses are test beds for great things to come. At the end of the day I think we're all experiencing some learning curve problems with the oiling systems of the Gen. III and IV small blocks. Customer service seems to be alive and well there also. I am on the phone with Damon and/or Chris at least once a week getting answers to all my questions.
So, with that long ramble, I will say that I am happy I went with the Mast parts and would do it again.
Tom
PS, cross your fingers that our 6.2 survives for at least the rest of this P-T season and maybe next... :fingersx:

The WidowMaker

08-18-2011, 02:42 PM

We have a Mast cam, ecm/harness and oil pan on the L92 that we are running in our 66. We're now on our second L92 since we spun a bearing the weekend after the Motorstate challenge. Is the spun bearing Mast's fault?

did you ever run the ls3 without the mast pan? any idea what caused the oil/bearing issues with yours?

Is the fact that DSE killed an engine at VIR the result of a Mast problem? Most likely not. I am totally convinced that we're using these motors to the extreme and that leads to failure.

any idea what led to the failure (oil issues, valve spring etc)? are they running the mast pan or dry sumps? accusump?

i have no doubt that mast is a great company. my problem is that there are lots of choices and its hard to narrow it down to just one. 14k isnt a small amount for a motor.

Chad-1stGen

08-18-2011, 04:14 PM

Bad94

08-18-2011, 05:36 PM

any idea what led to the failure (oil issues, valve spring etc)? are they running the mast pan or dry sumps? accusump?

I heard that when mast looked back at the computer there was alot of wide open throttle time on the motor. How many time was the motor on the limiter? Who know.

Finch has hurt 3 LS motors this year, and one last year.

I think that we are pushing motors so hard, that we are just finding the limits. The drag racers with LS based motors found the limit a few years ago.

I feel that dry sump is the only way to go.

The WidowMaker

08-18-2011, 07:09 PM

After seeing pics of the inside of the Mast pan I went with the Champ pan instead on my Mast motor. Mast seems to be more interested in selling a conversion pan than a road race pan. Trap doors > baffles IMO.

i called mast and talked to them in depth about their pan before i sold my autokraft/champ pan. they assured me it was up to the task. ive never actually seen one in person, but i agree that trap doors are nice.

Finch has hurt 3 LS motors this year, and one last year.

i really need to start a new thread. were these all in his silver car or different cars? were they all the prodigy 418's? i saw him blow a bunch of smoke at the RTTC2, but he stopped in the dse pit and went out for more laps after. not sure if he hurt the motor or not.

I feel that dry sump is the only way to go.
maybe im not paying attention, but these are the first motors im hearing about. im not saying that youre not correct, im only saying that im worried even more and feel that there are probably a bunch more out there. its something i need to research more.

Chad-1stGen

08-19-2011, 08:15 AM

Anyone with a MAST motor have the USB cable PN 302-102? I just about choked to death this morning when I went to buy one. I either know nothing about cables or MAST is run by the same people as Best Buy (and their whole HDMI cable scam). $300 for a simple USB cable to communicate with their ECU. Seriously WTF?

WTB a used 302-102 lol...

dontlifttoshift

08-19-2011, 08:25 AM

I got one. Its a little more complicated than that. the whip coming out of the harness to plug into is a Ford EEC style connector (I think) and the com cable interfaces with that and there is a box that goes in between both connections. There is also a standard OBDII aldl but I don't know what you can get out of that, never tried. Damon recommended that the dealers buy one so I did.

I know very little about electronics (my last cell phone was rotary dial) but I thought it was pretty cool all of the information that was available through that cable with a laptop.

IMHO its money well spent if you are running their ECM.

I would also like to note that I could not be happier with the tuneup on my car. Its a 5.3 that I put there cam in and ran their ECM and harness. The engine didn't turn over twice and it was running and after about a minute had settled into a 650 rpm idle. I then drove it to the local GG show and flogged it all weekend on the autocross and it never missed a beat. No throttle lag at all and the SD tune left my options for air cleaners wide open, which is important for me as proper ducting for a MAF in a early Ford is hard to do.

Also for what it's worth, I am running a stock vette LS3 pan but my car will never see road course time, I noticed no drop in pressure through some spirited autocrss runs however.

Oil control in any road race type car is important, I don't care whose engine you are running. i think very few of us are capable of driving at the level that Tucker or Finch can, but if you are plan accordingly.

Donny

Chad-1stGen

08-19-2011, 08:50 AM

Thanks for the info Donny. I wish you lived in SoCal lol.

Finch

08-20-2011, 05:44 AM

Finch has hurt 3 LS motors this year, and one last year.

While it has been a tough year on engines each one had a different issue. The vette engine was just plain old tired since that was the 4th car it had been in without any refresh and was just a factory L92 with a cam.
My Prodigy 418 was beat on non-stop for over a year and what finally let loose was a broken timing chain due to the factory tensioner failing early it's life. I am throwing in new bearings and rings now since I had it down and it will go back in for another year of torture so few hundred dollars and all is well. Also you should know that I have been running a stock LS1 F-body pan with no accu-sump the whole time so you never know what works and what doesn't.

The more the competition increases the harder we will push these and the more failures you will see.

The WidowMaker

08-22-2011, 08:12 AM

My Prodigy 418 was beat on non-stop for over a year and what finally let loose was a broken timing chain due to the factory tensioner failing early it's life.

good to hear it wasnt the same motor each time. the prodigy package is very economical vs the mast (~2k less)

Also you should know that I have been running a stock LS1 F-body pan with no accu-sump the whole time so you never know what works and what doesn't.

still waiting to hear what caused the dse/mast failure and which pan they run.

ProdigyCustoms

08-22-2011, 03:14 PM

Brian brings up a good point about pushing these engines and failures. While we have not had a "major failure" with one of our Prodigy Power engines yet, we are running well built street engines that are being raced pretty damn hard. And the thing is we are not using ubtonium guts in billet blocks here! And these motors are not $30 to $40K either. For reference, JUST the rotating assembly and block for Project Unfair cost more then the entire 418 Brian is running! But were easily talking about a $30K + engine build too.

I think all the engines, no matter who builds them are being run REALLY hard now and I think the motors should be treated as race motors and torn down maybe annually? I have done this since 1996 with my Street Racer engine and still run the same rotating assembly, block, heads, since new. I spray 300HP of nitrous on that motor, never burned a piston, never spun a bearing, never blow-ed it up. But I have torn it down, found some side thrust on some bearings, slop in timing chain, honed and re ringed many times.

Flash68

08-22-2011, 03:39 PM

Ron.in.SoCal

08-22-2011, 06:04 PM

I think all the engines, no matter who builds them are being run REALLY hard now and I think the motors should be treated as race motors and torn down maybe annually? I have done this since 1996 with my Street Racer engine and still run the same rotating assembly, block, heads, since new. I spray 300HP of nitrous on that motor, never burned a piston, never spun a bearing, never blow-ed it up. But I have torn it down, found some side thrust on some bearings, slop in timing chain, honed and re ringed many times.

^ This is the key. No matter whether it's a Mast, Wegner, HKE, Prodigy....these motors are being run and run hard and it's only a matter of when, not if a problem will occur. Certainly a more carefully prepped motor should last longer, but what's to say $15 part failure doesn't kill it? Bottom line, if you believe in the builder and know they take care in assembling your motor then move forward. If you're racing, you should be prepared to do the motor pulls, tear downs and replacement parts as needed.

ProdigyCustoms

08-23-2011, 05:02 AM

I have used the Mast Pan and it does indeed seem like a nice piece but have no real world experiance with it on the track yet. The Champ pan does have more in the way of trap door / baffles. We sell a lot of Champ Pans and they have a lot of people running them for the last couple years with great results. So on this one, if it ain't broke, why look for something else?

Vegas69

08-23-2011, 05:55 PM

While it has been a tough year on engines each one had a different issue. The vette engine was just plain old tired since that was the 4th car it had been in without any refresh and was just a factory L92 with a cam.
My Prodigy 418 was beat on non-stop for over a year and what finally let loose was a broken timing chain due to the factory tensioner failing early it's life. I am throwing in new bearings and rings now since I had it down and it will go back in for another year of torture so few hundred dollars and all is well. Also you should know that I have been running a stock LS1 F-body pan with no accu-sump the whole time so you never know what works and what doesn't.

The more the competition increases the harder we will push these and the more failures you will see.

Brian, did the crank need polished or turned? Any signs of oil starvation? Doesn't sound like it and I don't know anybody that has beat on their stuff harder than you. Except for DSE.

My opinioin is always build for worst case scenario. I do agree with maintenence. Don't forget valve jobs, valve springs, lifters and so on...