Is braided really better?

[Tony_SS]

I was going to upgrade my front brake hoses, but I was reading over my rear disc instructions and they claim that braided hoses are not necessary and only provide an aesthetic benefit.

I ended up getting the factory replacement front hoses from NAPA since they are rated 3000 psi and I'm running front LS1's along with a stock master/booster.

Is it possible that the braided hose = firmer pedal claim is just a myth since after they're replaced, a good bleeding is done and that is what cures the soft pedal?

I'm interested to hear more information on this.

[jknight16]

I have two examples where I personally installed braided lines and had great results.

First, factory disc front/rear drum brakes on my 69 Camaro. System was properly bled with new brake fluid before the hose swap. No changes other than going to braided lines yielded very positive results in braking performance and feel.

Second experience was with my sportbike (CBR929RR). I rode a buddy's 1000RR and got the itch for a little better braking performance. Swapped the lines to a stainless braided line and noticed a very material difference in the feel of the brakes. Under hard braking I didn't have to keep traveling the lever to maintain braking pressure. Overall it was an improvement in feel, lever (or pedal) travel and probably a performance improvement.

For the cost of braided lines as a % of the braking system total cost, I don't know why you wouldn't use them. What rear disc kit do you have that doesn't recommend using them?

[Shwa Kid]

Rubber lines may withstand 300psi and not fail, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they will not expand a little. If this were to happen (I can't say for certain whether it would or it wouldn't), that would definitely cause some extra brake pedal travel.

Another situation where a difference in feel would be noticed is when replacing old rotten lines with new stainless lines (as is often the case) where any (suitable) replacement in lines would yield a noticeable difference.

[wmhjr]

You may or may not feel it, but ive proven to myself beyond doubt that they do not expand as much and can provide a more firm pedal.

[Tony_SS]

I have two examples where I personally installed braided lines and had great results.

First, factory disc front/rear drum brakes on my 69 Camaro. System was properly bled with new brake fluid before the hose swap. No changes other than going to braided lines yielded very positive results in braking performance and feel.

Second experience was with my sportbike (CBR929RR). I rode a buddy's 1000RR and got the itch for a little better braking performance. Swapped the lines to a stainless braided line and noticed a very material difference in the feel of the brakes. Under hard braking I didn't have to keep traveling the lever to maintain braking pressure. Overall it was an improvement in feel, lever (or pedal) travel and probably a performance improvement.

For the cost of braided lines as a % of the braking system total cost, I don't know why you wouldn't use them. What rear disc kit do you have that doesn't recommend using them?

It's a renamed Summit Kit made by SSBC.

Thanks for the feedback. I think for the cost it certainly wouldn't hurt anything. I think my problem now is the original (!) factory hoses and air in part of the system. (pulls to the right when braking) I'm going to see how things act after installing the rear kit and new hoses all the way around. I think I would have gone braided on the front, but I'm doing the install tomorrow and chances of getting them in time would have been slim.

[Yoda4561]

Here's my take on it. The internal construction, fiber reinforcement of the rubber is what gives brake lines their strength. The braid does act as a crutch and may delay catastrophic line failure in an overpressure/damaged rubber situation, Prevents abrasion to the line due to rubbing, and also reflects heat away from the lines, which should help them hold up better in racing or certain heavy duty environments. The downside is braided lines also make it impossible to inspect for damage caused by heat/age/chemicals to the actual line itself. IMO I'd hesitate to use them on a daily driver/transportation car, and save them for track duty.

[wmhjr]

Dan, I can tell you with 100% certainty that a good braided flex line will expand significantly less than a good rubber line, and that it is more than simply a "crutch" that "dlays catastrophic line failure". I have proven it both from a data perspective (cold hard measured data) as well as in actual use and feel.

Once again, an easy way to show this is when I switched to Progressive Machine brakes on a bike I built. I put a pressure gauge on the calipers using a rubber line and measured pressure using a stop on the lever (meaning that in each and every case the lever was being compressed to the same stop, and with the same leverage). I then swapped nothing but the single flex line, re-bleed, and tested again to the same stop. There was an almost 20% increase in line pressure at peak. Static pressure at rest was equal. The difference increased as lever force increased. It was undeniably a case where the rubber line was expanding. In each case the actual line pressure was perfectly fine. However, it meant that there was more ability to modulate with the braided line. YOU control the pressure. Not the line.

Remember that there is a VERY large difference between strength as measured by the ability to accept pressure without failing, and the resistance to expansion.

[jknight16]

Nice job bringing the tech!

[monteboy84]

Here's my take on it. The internal construction, fiber reinforcement of the rubber is what gives brake lines their strength. The braid does act as a crutch and may delay catastrophic line failure in an overpressure/damaged rubber situation, Prevents abrasion to the line due to rubbing, and also reflects heat away from the lines, which should help them hold up better in racing or certain heavy duty environments. The downside is braided lines also make it impossible to inspect for damage caused by heat/age/chemicals to the actual line itself. IMO I'd hesitate to use them on a daily driver/transportation car, and save them for track duty.

Most braided lines are Teflon-lined, not rubber-lined, Teflon is not as prone to expansion as rubber is. As for being able to visually inspect the lines, my FlexKORE lines from KORE3 have a clear (vinyl?) coating over the braided stainless, which I believe is required as part of DOT legality, they also have crimped ends. I absolutely would not hesitate to use DOT legal lines such as FlexKORE or Goodridge for a street car or race car, though I would leave typical non-coated braided lines with replacable ends for track use only.

-matt

[Tony_SS]

Thanks all. I like the sound of the DOT flexKORE lines. I think I will go with those up front and rear center. I'll keep the rear 2 rubber since they are only about 4" long each.

[monteboy84]

I think you'll be really happy with them, Tobin is really helpful with getting exactly what you want when you order, and the lines really do fit nice. I believe he makes them custom to your order so it's really possible to get exactly what you want/need.

-matt