NEW - GMR - Pro Touring Rear Floater Hubs

[The GMR]

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Introducing the New GMR PT-R Full Floating Hubs.

These new hubs bring you race proven strength and intense style to create a perfect setup for your pro-touring application. The GMR PT-R hubs were designed from the ground up specifically for the pro-touring market where high horsepower and style are at a premium.

Every time you take a corner at speed does something not feel right? Your brakes get mushy and sometimes you need to pump the pedal to even get some fluid moving. You have invested in your car for performance but you can’t seem to get 100% out of your vehicle on a consistent basis. The rear end you have is simply not holding up to the task, flanged axles and semi-floaters CAN NOT get the job done.

You KNOW that something is available but you’re just not sure. The issue of Piston Knock Back is getting worse; your rear end is wearing out causing more damage and harm, what happens when it fails? Do you accept that you could loose the entire wheel at speed? Do you care about your brakes performing their best at speed? These are serious questions you need to ask yourself next time you take your baby for a drive.

MOST WILL SETTLE… The GMR Pro-Touring Hubs do NOT settle.

I’m going to INVITE you to do something different about your outdated and tired rear end. I have a solution to your piston knock back issues. I’ve researched, tested, used, and proven a new system that will provide superior strength and quality without question.

The solution is the new GMR Pro-Touring designed Full Floater hub setup. This setup can be installed on just about any rear end or we can build you a complete GMR Signature Series rear end featuring a GMR9 housing to complement your GMR hubs. These revolutionary new hubs are designed exclusively for the pro-touring industry with patent pending technology. This is not a modified circle track setup, or some other random concoction to combat piston knock back, these hubs are designed from the ground up for your pro-touring car.

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These new Full Floater setups are in limited supply, due to the intense manufacturing process and stringent quality requirements only small precise runs are made. In fact each Rear Hub run is so precise that every hub body is laser etched with a GMR date and unit number. Not only is this number exclusive to your investment it also allows us to better service you should you have any questions or concerns in the future. In the final stages of production units that don’t meet the requirements are rejected, to ensure you get top quality every time, NO EXCEPTIONS!

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The above example is from a manufacturing run in June of 2011 with the last number dictating that this is hub body number eight.



Benefits of GMR Full Floater hubs:


Wide Timken Bearing spread designed for Pro-Touring Applications
Dual Wheel Bolt patterns 5 x 4.5 and 5 x 4.75
True 35 spline treated steel drive plates
Compatible with all Big Brake Kits and Manufactures
Stronger then the competition and traditional semi-floater setups
Solves Piston Knock Back Issues
Lighter then traditional flanged axles
Corrosion resistant
GMR issued individual hub numbers
Not a Mass Manufactured component
Comprised of Aerospace Grade Materials
Utilizes high grade corrosion resistant fasteners
Allows you to accommodate more horse power
100% American Made



I personally guarantee 100% satisfaction with your new GMR Hubs.

Mention Pro-touring.com and...
I feel so strongly about this product that I’m willing to give you a free gift valued at $235. This FREE gift is made from professional grade tool steel that will ease the installation and preparation of your new rear hubs. You don’t even have to pay shipping or any bogus handling fees on your FREE gift, in other words it’s actually FREE!

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When you order be sure to mention Pro-Touring.com to receive Free shipping and handling.

$1887 per set with your Free GMR socket Tool and Shipping!

To order please contact our offices at [email protected] or call us at (714)-596-8800

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Sincerely,

Jason Heard,

CEO



P.S. Here is what Jay Miller, owner of JSM flooring had to say about the new GMR Full Floater setup:

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“Frankly I had been searching for something different and unique for my new project car. I have talked with just about every rear end manufacture on the planet and even visited a few. Nothing was dedicated for the pro-touring market, and it seemed like all the products offered either only helped the problem or were patched together from a few different setups. I wanted something dedicated for my issue and that would last the life of the car. Then one random day while searching online I stumbled across the GMR and what they were offering. I was very intrigued, so much so that I drove out to meet with Jason and was sold from day one. Not only did I order the new hubs on the spot I scheduled for my car to come into the shop for a full GMR9 build, DSE suspension install, GMR custom fabricated STAINLESS roll cage, and GMR built stainless oval exhaust. Well, the car was recently finished and I was very pleased with the service and quality of the parts / work. The hubs are what sold me on GMR, simply nothing like it.”

[GrnDragon]

I got my kit(s) last week and I have to comment, that they look even better in person than in the pictures!
Being an engineer working with a machine shop I know the cost to buy these types of materials and machine parts of this quality, and I couldn't match this cost with materials/design/quality put into these parts.

Jason has invested A LOT of time and money into these and they turned out AMAZING.
Oh, and the front C5/C6 kit is equally as impressive!

I forgot to mention, that Jason's promises about 100% Customer Satisfaction is not just a sales ploy, he genuinely does everything he can to make sure the customer is happy with their purchase.

[MoparCar]

Jason, does the kit include the snouts? Also, how many inches are required from the hub face for space? IE: how far required for space to mount suspension and shock brackets?

[The GMR]

I got my kit(s) last week and I have to comment, that they look even better in person than in the pictures!
Being an engineer working with a machine shop I know the cost to buy these types of materials and machine parts of this quality, and I couldn't match this cost with materials/design/quality put into these parts.

Jason has invested A LOT of time and money into these and they turned out AMAZING.
Oh, and the front C5/C6 kit is equally as impressive!

I forgot to mention, that Jason's promises about 100% Customer Satisfaction is not just a sales ploy, he genuinely does everything he can to make sure the customer is happy with their purchase.

thanks man, I have something in the works for your rear end too! we will talk monday!

jason

[The GMR]

Jason, does the kit include the snouts? Also, how many inches are required from the hub face for space? IE: how far required for space to mount suspension and shock brackets?

Yes, the kits includes custom machined Chromoly treated snouts. We have a very defined and specialized treating and machine process that ensures perfect bearing fitment and location along with superior strength.

We utilize right and left hand snouts so that the rotation of the wheel matched the rotation of the spindle nut for keeping it tight.

From Wheel Mount Surface to where the housing tube needs to be cut is exactly 5 inches.

jason

[The GMR]

I have received a few questions via phone, email, and PM about the snouts. I decided to clear everything up for you guys. Please let me know if there are any questions that you have which are not answered in the section below.

One often overloked and underestimated element to the Full Floater rear hub setup are the snouts. These are a critical element that literaly supports the weight of the vehicle. Here at the GMR we provide the highest quality floater hubs on the market, period!

This is how and why…

The Process-

We start with very high grade chromoly steel that is made in America. Just in case its not fully clear; EVERYTHING we manufacture is made in America, and I mean EVERYTHING right down to the raw material. Once the material arrives, the process starts. IT is then machined to a very detailed size that caters to the specific heat treat process they endure. This size and treating process is classified. Once the snouts come back from treating they are then final machined to ensure the tightest and smoothest bearing fitment on the market. We have tested quite a few different processes over the years, this is the only way we see fit to ensure quality every time you open the box.
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The Bearing Spread -

This is one element that is often overlooked and never mentioned. This is a critical measurement you need to pay attention to, it is directly related to the lateral force the entire assembly can take. The GMR Hubs boast a massive 1.5 inches of TRUE bearing spread. “True” bearing spread is what I (Jason Heard) consider the interior measurement between the bearings. NOT the measuerment on the outside edge of the bearings with a little “buffer” added to seem larger…. Keep that number in mind, True 1.5 inches!

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The other often over looked element is the use of a precision machined crush sleeve. As you can see in the picture above there is a dark section of material between the bearings. This is a precision machined Chromoly sleeve that holds the bearing separation perfectly in line with the outer bearing races in the hub. This achieves three major things.

One – This sleeve locates the bearings in the optimal position for extended life, no more over tight bearings that fail prematurely.

Two – Allows for you to torque the snout nut to 100 ft-lb of torque, you will never crush the sleeve or the inner bearing race. They are simply too strong…

Three – Provides the ultimate in bearing strength, creates a solid structure on the snout that will provide more lateral strength because it locks the bearings perfectly in place.



Details…

I promised professional…

…and I will deliver professional!

Everything we do at the GMR is about the little details, We have full days of brainstorm sessions that involve nothing but the added details, items such as the laser etched manufacturing date / number to the machined snouts…

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We know that dealing with items that look similar with borderline identical threads can be a real pain, especially when they are Left and Right hand… The GMR has solved your confusion once and for all! Each and every GMR snout is machined to indicate the thread direction of the snout. Can you see it?

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That was still not enough for me… I wanted something more!

Every GMR product that leaves the building is shipped with color coded tape. All Right hand threads receive Black tape, all left hand threads receive Grey tape. The tape protects the threads and gives you a heads up on what is underneath.



Welding…

This was a challenge, we had to come up with a material that is both welder friendly and superior in strength for ultimate bearing life. I cant tell you what material were using or the treating process but I can assure you that there is nothing on the market like it!

Even though we have a detailed treating process and material the welding is very simplistic. Here at the GMR we like to use a very specific welding procedure when we weld in the snouts.

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It starts with the proper preparation of the housing tubes, the GMR snouts provide 1.5″ inches of material that index into the housing tube. That means that 1.5 inches of the snout is actually inside the axle tube. This allows for the use of “plug” welds to provide superior strength. We always drill 4 plug welds clocked at 90 degrees each. Once the holes are drilled, we then clean the material to ensure proper weld penetration. With a professionally designed and machined fixture we weld in the snouts so they are centered to the gear set.

At the GMR we weld the snouts in using a very specific method that utilizes a GMR Classified welding wire / rod and gas combination. The reason for this is that even with realistic estimated human error we can assume a weld surface tensile strength of 100,000. Weather it is MIG or TIG welded we have specific procedures to ensure top quality each and every time for your GMR9 housing.

Do not be alarmed if you are going to have a professional rear end builder weld in your GMR snouts, they can weld the snouts with ER70S-6 wire / rod and the results will work out great. The only down side is that you cant expect to see the strength we achieve.

All this thought and process goes into every snout, imagine the hole hub assembly… or even a complete GMR9 rear end assembly! We can provide you with complete rear ends, assembled and ready to bolt right in. Please keep that in mind when your in the market for a new rear end!

[The GMR]

Drive Plates and Wheel Studs

The main components to the drive system of a full floater are the drive plate and wheel studs. These components are directly responsible for getting the power to the ground in your pro-touring application. Unlike stock flanged axles the drive plate and axle are two separate components. The axles are splined on each end and index into the center of the drive plate. The drive plate then slides over the wheel studs and indexes on the hub body, this is what provides the power to the wheels. The key elements to this system are the drive plate spline, material, sealing capability, and the wheel studs.



True 35 spline –

The GMR drive plate is a true 35 spline, something that is not seen with the competition. The common and inexpensive route for hub manufactures is to use a circle track 24 spline pattern for the drive plate. Even though it is not a 35 spline, they still call their setup a 35 spline because the interior splines are 35. We did not settle, we decided to use a true 35 spline drive plate that was designed from the ground up for this GMR hub assembly. This provides more strength and the ability to run true 35 spline axle with 35 spline on each end.

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These pictures show the GMR drive plate with a GMR 300M full floater axle. There is plenty of spline engagement to provide optimal strength that will take abuse for years to come.

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Material -

Just like all other GMR products, GMR drive plates are 100% American made right down to the base material. The Drive plates are machined from treated high grade chromoly steel then coated to provide you a great corrosion resistant finish. These drive plates are designed to be light and strong, the perfect combination of reduced rotating mass and durability.



Sealing Capability -

The worst thing that can happen to your rear end are leaks. The GMR has taken this very seriously with the use of custom O-rings and machined components to match. Between each component of the hub that bolts together is the chance for rear end fluid to leak out of, something we simply cant allow here at GMR. The Drive plate sits on top of the hub body when in place, this connection is critical, that where most leaking from full floaters occur. As you can clearly see below we have a custom machined groove that perfectly matches the custom O-ring diameter, width, and depth to properly seal the hub body to drive plate.

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The second most likely spot for a floater hub to leak is the drive plate cap. The GMR drive plate cap has also been armed with a custom machined groove and O-ring that fits firmly against the drive plate. The key here is precision, each and every part of the assembly must fit perfectly together every time, these O-rings make that happen time and time again.

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Wheel Studs and Fasteners –

The final component in the drive system of the full floater are the wheel studs. All GMR wheel studs are precision machined from 17-4 Stainless Steel. This treated high strength stainless provides the prefect amount of corrosion resistance and strength for your Pro-Touring application. The GMR did not use some off the shelf component, instead we custom designed a wheel stud that we manufacture just for this specific hub body. This attention to detail is not found in the industry, nor is the use of very high quality wheel studs that are corrosion resistant.

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Not only are the wheel Studs Stainless but so are all the drive plate / cap fasteners. We could have stopped with the wheel studs and some would agree thats ok, but the GMR does not settle. Quality has to be through and through, stainless wheel studs must be complemented by high grade stainless fasteners for the drive plate and cap. Take note that one of the most important features of the GMR wheel studs is the use of a precision machined shank. This shank of the GMR wheel stud is specifically designed to cater to the drive plate and index accordingly to provide the ultimate in force transfer through the drive-train. Do not settle for cheap black oxide bolts… the GMR wont so why should you?

With elements like the items mentioned above its clear why GMR is treading new ground in the Pro-Touring industry. Remember…

If your not going to be cheap with your car then don’t let your hub manufacture either!

[TheJDMan]

What do you offer for caliper mounts?

[The GMR]

This setup can run any caliper you want.

do you have a specific caliper in mind?

thanks
jason

[TheJDMan]

I just need a pair of weld on caliper mounts that can accept Corvette Z06 rear calipers or via an adaptor to Baer or Wilwood.

[T_Raven]

Very impressive stuff. Any pictures of a fully assembled setup with brakes? You say they work with all big brake kits, but it would be nice to see one fully set up

[The GMR]

Lighter then traditional flanged (Semi-Floater) axles…


Do you think that Full Floaters are strong heavy setups? Are they too bulky in your opinion? Do you assume that when you switch to a full floater that you will have a Heavy setup?

Well these are all questions that the GMR addressed when designing the PT-R Floater hubs.

Lighter – Stronger – Faster…

The Three words that The GMR PT-R hubs and GMR9 rear ends live by! When compared to traditional 35 spline semi-floater setups something magical happens… The GMR PT-R hubs actually REDUCE the amount of rotational mass and weight in your rear end. Dont believe me? Well, here is the proof!

Traditional 35 spline flanged axle with Set20 bearings, billet Big Bearing Ford Ends, and a Wilwood rotor adapter / hat.

26.5 Pounds

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Now, compare that to the GMR setup with everything including 2 bearings, 300M axles, drive plates, studs, and billet machined snouts.

22.1 Pounds

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That is a difference of 4.4 pounds in favor of the GMR PT-R hubs. As we kept testing the theory with different axle lenghts we came to a realistic number of 3.7 pounds difference again favoring the GMR PT-R hubs.



When it comes to performance GMR is your option, the GMR does not settle, so neither should you!

[The GMR]

Very impressive stuff. Any pictures of a fully assembled setup with brakes? You say they work with all big brake kits, but it would be nice to see one fully set up

working on it right now.

We have a strict policy to not release anything until were ready to rock!
The final sets of tooling are getting finished for the new GMR9 housings.

Jason

[The GMR]

I just need a pair of weld on caliper mounts that can accept Corvette Z06 rear calipers or via an adaptor to Baer or Wilwood.

I can make it happen, please shoot me an email with all the exact parts you have. Or even a simple sketch of what you need.

[email protected]

thanks
Jason

[Bryce]

Lighter then traditional flanged (Semi-Floater) axles…


Do you think that Full Floaters are strong heavy setups? Are they too bulky in your opinion? Do you assume that when you switch to a full floater that you will have a Heavy setup?

Well these are all questions that the GMR addressed when designing the PT-R Floater hubs.

Lighter – Stronger – Faster…

The Three words that The GMR PT-R hubs and GMR9 rear ends live by! When compared to traditional 35 spline semi-floater setups something magical happens… The GMR PT-R hubs actually REDUCE the amount of rotational mass and weight in your rear end. Dont believe me? Well, here is the proof!

Traditional 35 spline flanged axle with Set20 bearings, billet Big Bearing Ford Ends, and a Wilwood rotor adapter / hat.

26.5 Pounds

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Now, compare that to the GMR setup with everything including 2 bearings, 300M axles, drive plates, studs, and billet machined snouts.

21.1 Pounds

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That is a difference of 4.4 pounds in favor of the GMR PT-R hubs. As we kept testing the theory with different axle lenghts we came to a realistic number of 3.7 pounds difference again favoring the GMR PT-R hubs.



When it comes to performance GMR is your option, the GMR does not settle, so neither should you!

That is awesome Jason!

[The GMR]

GMR PT-R Rotor Adapters

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One Often Overlooked component to the Full Floater System is the rotor adapter. The GMR spared no expense when bringing the GMR PT-R Rotor Adapter to market. This single component underwent several different variations and prototypes until we found our final design. There is more then what meets the eye, please take a few minutes to read through the reasons why the GMR PT-R Rotor Adapters are in a league of their own!

Material –

The GMR PT-R rotor adapters are precision machined from solid billet aluminum right here in the USA. We start with high grade aluminum that is provided through US suppliers so that we can honestly state that our product is 100% American Made.

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Strength –

When it comes to the strength department the GMR does not skimp! The PT-R Rotor Adapters share the same material, design, and style as the high end Off-Road race industry. Tested in the harshest conditions with forces and elements that a Pro-Touring car will never see. This mentality for overkill has evolved into the new PT-R Rotor Adapters. After the strict machine process each rotor adapter is then hard anodized to increase strength and longevity of the component.

Weight –

Even with all the strength built into the PT-R Rotor Adapters the GMR was still able to provide a weight savings over the competition. Weighing in at a staggering 1.5 pounds the PT-R Rotor Adapters pack a serious punch.

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Serial Numbering -

Just like the GMR Hub bodies each and every rotor adapter is laser etched with the GMR logo and part number. What makes GMR different from the competition is that we also Serial number each and every rotor adapter. Not only is this number exclusive to your investment it also allows us to better service you should you have any questions or concerns in the future. In the final stages of production units that don’t meet the requirements are rejected, to ensure you get top quality every time, NO EXCEPTIONS!

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The above rotor adapter is from a manufacturing run in the month of June 2011 and was rotor adapter number 77.

Precision Fitment –

The fitment of a rotor adapter is critical, keeping the rotor adapter centered on the hub and assembly as a whole is the key to reducing rotor run out. The PT-R Rotor Adapter is a hub-centric press fit setup that ensures a reduction of rotor run out. This is the correct way a rotor adapter should be installed onto a hub assembly, do not simply rely on the bolts to hold the adapter straight to the hub body.

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We precision machine a slight press fit for the PT-R Rotor Adapter to the GMR hub body.

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Once the rotor adapter is pressed onto the hub we then utilize high grade flat head cap screws to secure the PT-R Rotor Adapter to the GMR hub body.

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Even with simple components you can see how The GMR provides top shelf quality right down to every little detail.

[LeighP]

Man, I'm a sucker for nicely made parts.....I've worked in the aviation industry since the 70's and you get used to high quality parts like this....nice to see them available for our cars.
Great piece of engineering, guys.

[John Wright]

Being a QC manager here where I work, I like seeing the tracibility that you guys are using to track your parts back to a production run or batch of parts....good job.

[GrnDragon]

I do agree serializing all the parts is a very professional touch to the components.
You guys should see these parts in real life! They look even better than the pictures, they are some top quality machining and design. And the fitment is extremely precise, Jason even got exact slip fits with the coatings (anodize and I'm guessing passivation on the front spindle). I just put a little lithium grease on the parts and the bearings slide right on with absolutely NO slop.

[The GMR]

Thank you for all the comments. I really strive to over-deliver with every aspect of our business.

Jason

[SparkyRnD]

Jason those are not only very cool and functional, you present them well with great information. Depending on where our budget falls on our upcoming project, I will be talking to you about a set.

[The GMR]

Jason those are not only very cool and functional, you present them well with great information. Depending on where our budget falls on our upcoming project, I will be talking to you about a set.

Sounds good, please let me know if you have any questions when the times comes.

Jason

[The GMR]

I have been getting several questions on the reasons for the 35 spline drive plates over the 24 spline. Well.... this picture below just about sums it up...

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This is a 24 spline drive plate from a competitor (I will not say because I do not feel as though throwing another company under the bus is professional). The part you don't see with this image is that the interior axle was only 31 spline. The 24 spline drive plate gave out before the interior 31 spline unit did. This is why we decided to go with a true 35 spline drive-line system.

If you are going to truly see 600+ HP to the rear tires then a 24 spline drive plate will NOT hold up. This is not the same as flywheel HP, Im talking about true HP, the actual number that counts.

Keep in mind that true 1000 HP drag cars utilize 40 spline plus and some even 45 spline to provide the strength required from HARD launches, sticky tires, and large power numbers.

Jason

[The GMR]

PT.com Member "daredvl22" is getting the new GMR PT-R hub setup and is going to run a W4A caliper with 14" SRP rotors.

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Currently his rear end is at Moser and will be running a 3" tube Moser Housing. For this to work I quickly drew up and RUSHED a CNC laser order that consisted of these bad boys!

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They are 3/8" thick CNC cut caliper mounts that locate the C5 radial mount for the 14" rotor. When running larger calipers such as the W4A unit I prefer to utilize the Wilwood Stock C5 radial brackets. They provide a larger spread and bolt for superior strength.

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*** GMR9-300 series housing shown above, NOT a Moser housing ***

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This is just a simple example to show you that anything is possible with GMR, even if we do not have it on the shelf for your specific application we can design / develop said component with relative ease.

Jason

[daredvl22]

You're the man Jason! Thank you again for knocking this out so quickly! I can't wait to get this set up. I'll be sure to post pics, as I know everyone is eager to see the real thing.

FYI - for those of you who have not had the opportunity to speak with Jason about their products, you need to call him. I am amazed at his eagerness to help, and create "one off" pieces as your project dictates (obviously from the post above). Aside from being very knowledgeable, he's a great guy, and car enthusiast. I have no doubts that his products are 1st rate, and will be used in several PT builds.

Thanks again Jason,
Dave

[The GMR]

Dave,


Here is a little teaser of what your setup will look like!

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Jason

[The GMR]

All cattle, no hat!

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Jason

[ProdigyCustoms]

Looks awesome Jason, Cannot wait to get it mounted up.

Thanks for the brackets

[The GMR]

I would like to show an example of how the hubs are shipped to clients. We have custom made boxes for each component, then a custom overall box that fits the entire setup perfectly.

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Jason

[The GMR]

To complement your GMR PT-R Hub setup we machine a GMR Signature socket adapter just for your specific GMR hub. These adapters are of the utmost in quality just like everything that The GMR produces.

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These GMR Signature socket adapters start off life as large chunks of high grade tool steel. Once they are machined to rough dimensions each adapter is then individually treated to increase the strength of the component, this treating is very specific and detailed to ensure you end up with the strongest combination possible. Once it comes back from treating the socket adapters are then final machined for a precise fit that will last for years to come. After the machine process the parts undergo a black oxide treatment to prevent corrosion. Just another aspect of the GMR PT-R Rear Floater hub setup that helps keep the rust off your ride!

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To make things easy on you we designed the socket adapter to work with any standard 1″ socket. A must have and required tool that can be found in just about every socket package known to man! This way it does not matter if you have 3/8″ or even 1/2″ drive sockets, the adapter will work with either, thus reducing the chance that you don’t have the right tool for the job.

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We are so confident is this product that we offer a LIFETIME GUARANTEE on your GMR Signature Wheel Bearing Socket Adapter. If for any reason you break this tool we will send you another one completely FREE, to top that off we will even ship it for FREE and actually ship it ASAP so you can get your baby back on the road!


Sold individually for $235 with Free Shipping.

[T_Raven]

I'm still a litle confused on brakes with this set up. Are there specific rotors that can be used with your adaptors? Or do you offer different adaptors depending on the rotors being used?

And for caliper do we specify which caliper and rotor and then you make brackets or how does that part go?

[The GMR]

I'm still a litle confused on brakes with this set up. Are there specific rotors that can be used with your adaptors? Or do you offer different adaptors depending on the rotors being used?

And for caliper do we specify which caliper and rotor and then you make brackets or how does that part go?

We currently have rotor adapters on the shelf for 14" GT or SRP rotors. Those can be used with any manufactures calipers. I can and will be making adapters for baer rotors, just backed on the machined right now so it will be some time.

As for the caliper setup, I have several mounts on the shelf, but worst case I can design one up for your specific setup just like above. The answer is that we can mount any caliper to our setup that will use a rotor that matches what we have. Some exceptions have been made, we did have another member on there that ran a 12.88 rotor where he had to machine off a slight amount of the rotor adapter to get it to fit inside the rotor accordingly, nothing major but it is going to work.

If you can think it, I can build it!
jason

[TheJDMan]

I have been getting several questions on the reasons for the 35 spline drive plates over the 24 spline. Well.... this picture below just about sums it up...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This is a 24 spline drive plate from a competitor (I will not say because I do not feel as though throwing another company under the bus is professional). The part you don't see with this image is that the interior axle was only 31 spline. The 24 spline drive plate gave out before the interior 31 spline unit did. This is why we decided to go with a true 35 spline drive-line system.
Jason

Jason,
Not to be argumentative but just posting a picture of a failed part does not tell the entire story. You imply that the 24 spline design is somehow flawed. The fact is that the 24 spline drive plates have been used in NASCAR, SCORE Off Road and untold numbers of sportsman class race cars around the country for over 25 years. I am reasonably certian that in those 25 years there have been numerious parts failures which is not uncommon in racing applications. Floating hubs are a relatively new idea among street car builders so I assume this part came off of a race car or that someone was trying to drag race with floating hubs which is kind of like drag racing with a quick change rear end. As everyone knows, racing is a pretty extreme environment for parts. The problem is that with no history on the pictured part there is no way to asses the nature of the failure. Here's a challenge for you, put the GMR hubs on a NASCAR or SCORE racing application and let's see how they withstand a racing season of abuse.

[The GMR]

Jason,
Not to be argumentative but just posting a picture of a failed part does not tell the entire story. You imply that the 24 spline design is somehow flawed. The fact is that the 24 spline drive plates have been used in NASCAR, SCORE Off Road and untold numbers of sportsman class race cars around the country for over 25 years. I am reasonably certian that in those 25 years there have been numerious parts failures which is not uncommon in racing applications. Floating hubs are a relatively new idea among street car builders so I assume this part came off of a race car or that someone was trying to drag race with floating hubs which is kind of like drag racing with a quick change rear end. As everyone knows, racing is a pretty extreme environment for parts. The problem is that with no history on the pictured part there is no way to asses the nature of the failure. Here's a challenge for you, put the GMR hubs on a NASCAR or SCORE racing application and let's see how they withstand a racing season of abuse.


JD,

You do bring up some good points in regards the use of 24 spline in current forms of racing. I have many years of experience with in Off-road fabricated full floaters, I have personally built over 100 GMR9 off-road rear ends (yes, me personally welding up the housing, snouts, link mounts, and caliper brackets) and that is just the GMR9 housings. Not to mention the countless others I have built over the years. I have also personally built rear ends with floaters and some semi floaters from just about every company including 9inchfloater.

As for the use of 24 spline in racing, well some of your information is inaccurate. The only vehicles that are racing in off-road with the 24 spline units are very light / under-powered class 7 ish trucks and down. Tire sizes range from 33" and down with displacement under 4 liters. I know because I have built many of them.

As for the testing of the GMR hub, well other versions are currently racing in classes such as Trophy Truck on down. Not only in SCORE, but in other countries such as Dakar and Australia. The 3.25 and 2.5 inch bearing units have been more then tested, they are winning races throughout each class.

Please don't get me wrong, the 24 spline drive plate is not a bad choice, its just that GMR does not settle and going with 24 spline would be "settling" in my eyes. I do not mean to offend anyone, this is just how we see things. There is no argument, 35 spline is superior to 24 spline, simple as that.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Jason

[T_Raven]

We currently have rotor adapters on the shelf for 14" GT or SRP rotors. Those can be used with any manufactures calipers. I can and will be making adapters for baer rotors, just backed on the machined right now so it will be some time.

As for the caliper setup, I have several mounts on the shelf, but worst case I can design one up for your specific setup just like above. The answer is that we can mount any caliper to our setup that will use a rotor that matches what we have. Some exceptions have been made, we did have another member on there that ran a 12.88 rotor where he had to machine off a slight amount of the rotor adapter to get it to fit inside the rotor accordingly, nothing major but it is going to work.

If you can think it, I can build it!
jason

Ok makes sense now. These are definitely going on the wish list for when I'm ready to build my rear suspension and axle. Also saw your C5 front hubs on your site. I'm going to build a subframe with C5 parts do nie to see you guys making those too

[BADDRIDE II]

Jason,
Not to be argumentative but just posting a picture of a failed part does not tell the entire story. You imply that the 24 spline design is somehow flawed. The fact is that the 24 spline drive plates have been used in NASCAR, SCORE Off Road and untold numbers of sportsman class race cars around the country for over 25 years. I am reasonably certian that in those 25 years there have been numerious parts failures which is not uncommon in racing applications. Floating hubs are a relatively new idea among street car builders so I assume this part came off of a race car or that someone was trying to drag race with floating hubs which is kind of like drag racing with a quick change rear end. As everyone knows, racing is a pretty extreme environment for parts. The problem is that with no history on the pictured part there is no way to asses the nature of the failure. Here's a challenge for you, put the GMR hubs on a NASCAR or SCORE racing application and let's see how they withstand a racing season of abuse.

So if I understand what you wrote correctly…..you believe these “circle track” 24 spline drive plates would be expected to fail under race/drag type abuse? I am confused since a majority of our cars will see race time on both auto-x as well as 1/4 mile……tell me again why anyone would want to run a circle track floater kit on a high HP, sticky tired car? I think I will stick with my GMR kit that was designed specifically to withstand these conditions! :enguard:

[dontlifttoshift]

....someone was trying to drag race with floating hubs which is kind of like drag racing with a quick change rear end.....

Somebody dragraces with a floating rear end. Moser had this listed under drag race floating housing.... worth noting is the spline count on the drive plates. I guess overkill is universally accepted as being okay.



# FF40475 - Moser Full Floater Kit Assembly
SKU: FF40475


Availability: In stock.

$1,345.00
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Quick Overview

MADE THE AMERICAN WAY IN THE USA!

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Product Description

MOSER ENGINEERING FLOATER KIT ASSEMBLY

The Moser Engineering Floater assembly package puts everything you need into one kit so that you can convert your existing housing to a safe and strong floater. This kit includes the Moser Engineering designed hubs and 4130 Drive Flanges. It also includes the dual caliper brake brackets along with all the bearings and seals and spindles to make your conversion complete.

FF40475 includes; 40 spline 4130 drive flanges, aluminum hubs, spindle, brake caliper brackets steel drive flange, solid rotor, bearings, races (installed in hubs), 5/8" studs and all associated mounting hardware.

.

[BADDRIDE II]

Somebody dragraces with a floating rear end. Moser had this listed under drag race floating housing.... worth noting is the spline count on the drive plates. I guess overkill is universally accepted as being okay.

That is correct Donny. Full Floater hubs are also regularly used in High End drag race applications as well, and have been for many years. Another well known company by the name of Mark Williams Enterprises produces a VERY elite DRAG specific floater kit for the 1/4 mile croud that even doubles the cost of even the Moser "drag race" kit. But what both Moser & Mark Williams do share in common, is the fact that EXTREME high HP drag cars definitely require something more than 24 splines and is why they opted for the 40 spline.

What everybody should know though, is that in order to run this 40 spline drive plate, the axle OD is larger, the bearing ID/OD is larger, which pushes the wheel stud bolt pattern wider to make sure there is enough hub body material between the bearing OD and wheel stud. By doing this it creates a undesirable wider wheel bolt pattern of 5on5 or even 5on5.5 These DRAG specific floater kits also use sealed ball bearings (not tapered) that have very narrow bearing spreads since they were designed for straight line DRAG. It is safe to say that between the narrowly spread ball bearings and the wider wheel stud patterns…..you will not see any of these DRAG kits cross over to Pro Tour.

So you will see the GMR’s strategic choice of 35 spline was not an accident….it is basically the most spline count you will safely/strongly fit into the hub body and still offer a 5on4.75 or 5on 4.5 wheel stud pattern. I believe ALL the manufacturers of these floater kits got it right when they labeled/advertised their own kits…..CIRCLE TRACK is for CIRCLE TRACK…..DRAG is for DRAG…..and PRO TOUR is for PRO TOUR! I do not recall seeing on anybodys site EXCEPT GMR’s, their kits being designed for Pro Tour. I had done extensive research prior to purchasing GMR’s floater kit and feel 110% confident in saying there is NOTHING on the market like it specifically designed for the most serious of Pro Tour.:twothumbs

[Nothingface5384]

how does it compare to the Full Floating Axle Conversion from Baer Brakes?

perhaps like a break down

[BADDRIDE II]

how does it compare to the Full Floating Axle Conversion from Baer Brakes?

perhaps like a break down

I guess I’ll take this question on since I am very familiar with GMR floater rears. Let me start by telling you that two of the most important elements that make up a successful floater hub kit for Auto-X/Road Course/Drag would be” bearing spread” and “drive plate splines”. Wider the bearing spread in the hub body, the better the unit will handle lateral forces during Auto-X/Road Course days. Without a wide bearing spread you may as well stay with a semi-floater. As for the drive plate spline count, more the better to handle the higher HP/TRQ of todays Pro Tour style cars that can appreciate a hard launch every now and then (same reason you would opt for a 31/33/35 spline in lieu of 28 spline when choosing a carrier/axle spline). As I have detailed in other posts, ALL others offer 24 splines (including your kit in question), …GMR runs a 35 spline. GMR’s bearing spread is nearly double that of the kit you have questioned. Another design flaw by others is that they have the drive plate “drive” on the wheel stud thread itself……that point on the wheel stud is a major shear point. GMR has eliminated this possibility by having the drive plate “drive” on a specific shank area machined on the 17-4 stainless studs. I could go on and on but these are some to name a few. Hope this helps. You should also read back to the start of this GMR post to learn of GMR's offerings/advantages.......then try to find (good luck) information about others kits that may help compare.

[daredvl22]

What he said :)...............And Baer over promised and way under delivered. After waiting 5-6 months for them to finally release their product, I threw in the towel. I have also since changed directions on my entire brake set up as a result. Too bad, but what's done is done. Consider me one less Baer customer. They do make nice parts, but GMR clearly has the full floater design and functionality arena covered.

[454bug]

I do not recall seeing on anybodys site EXCEPT GMR’s, their kits being designed for Pro Tour. I had done extensive research prior to purchasing GMR’s floater kit and feel 110% confident in saying there is NOTHING on the market like it specifically designed for the most serious of Pro Tour.:twothumbs

I wouldn't totally agree with you... There is another company that offers their 31-spline and 35-spline products for the Pro-Touring world... their company's name is Altra 9. In their product's descriptions they use the verbiage: "Engineer / DOT approved for road use" meaning their product was not designed specifically for "racing only".

Here's their website: http://www.altra9.com.au/altra_9_floater_axle_kits.html

They are based out of Australia and will gladly ship to the USA. A lot of their product is constructed in the USA. The GMR may still be the best option but there are alternatives and I'm sure the more popular Pro-Touring gets, the more products will surface.

[Bryce]

Here is another link to 31 spline hub. http://www.9inchfloater.com/RrEndKits/RrEndKits_28_31.htm
and another link to a 35/40 spline http://www.9inchfloater.com/RrEndKits/RrEndKits_35_40.htm

What would make the above floaters not applicable to pro-touring.

In no way am I discounting what Jason and GMR have brought to the pro-touring world.

[dontlifttoshift]

Bryce, looks good but.....

The bolt pattern is huge at 5 on 5.5" and the rotors (and adapters) are are small by comparison. 5/8" wheels studs as well. Nothing wrong with any of that but limits your options for wheels.

[Bryce]

http://www.9inchfloater.com/CompleteRrEnd/CmplteRrEnd_28_31.htm

This link says he can build it with a 5x4.5 bolt pattern. no specs on bearing spacing or bearing size.

[dontlifttoshift]

Right, but not the 35 to 40 spline. At least not that I saw.....I have been known to glance over important information in the past :D

[Bryce]

Right, but not the 35 to 40 spline. At least not that I saw.....I have been known to glance over important information in the past :D

Yes you are correct.

[Ron S]

I've been talking to Jason about possibly doing something for my Mustang, see if I can finally put the brake knockback to rest. Of all the stuff I've seen, Jason has come up with some well engineered, quality products for the Pro Touring market.

[BADDRIDE II]

Here is another link to 31 spline hub. http://www.9inchfloater.com/RrEndKits/RrEndKits_28_31.htm
and another link to a 35/40 spline http://www.9inchfloater.com/RrEndKits/RrEndKits_35_40.htm

What would make the above floaters not applicable to pro-touring.

In no way am I discounting what Jason and GMR have brought to the pro-touring world.

Hey Bryce, it looks like you have found out already that these kits are not an equal of THE GMR....as I had also found in my research of floater kits....but figured I would expose it for what it is in hopes others can learn from all my countless hours of research. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
This first kit you mention "28/31 spline kit", is again another CIRCLE TRACK kit at best. The 28/31 spline they refer to is the axle spline on the carrier side....and conveniently leave out that it too utilizes the weaker 24 spline drive plate as others do in CIRCLE TRACK on the opposing side of the axle. Also take note that this kit uses a steel hub body(very un-desirable/HEAVY). Also take note that this kit uses smaller off brand bearings and are 2 different sizes. The inner bearing has a 1-5/8"i.d., the outer with a 1-3/8"i.d. (in comparison to GMR's inner/outer 2"). Did I mention that the snouts are NOT chromolly and are both right hand thread? Also take note of the one piece rotor (also un-desirable/HEAVY). So as a quick reference re-cap.......HEAVY steel hub body/SMALL off brand bearings/24 spline driveplates/Non-Chromolly snouts that are both right hand thread/NO large rotor offering capability/maximum of 31 spline carrier/Budget Hardware/No FREE $200+ nut socket/etc. etc.<o:p></o:p>
Phewww! Need I go on? I am sorry to this company for exposing this kit for what it is…..but this IS what it is. Why do you think others do not “break it down”, component for component as THE GMR has? Exactly….not much to brag about, especially with the bar set so high now.<o:p></o:p>
As for the 35/40 spline kit, this is an OFFROAD only kit. If its 5on5 & 5on5.5 wheel stud pattern doesn’t throw you off.....the large hub bore size surely will. Not to mention this kit does not offer large rotor capability either. I could go on with this one as well….but since does not even apply, I will not.:naughty:

[BADDRIDE II]

I wouldn't totally agree with you... There is another company that offers their 31-spline and 35-spline products for the Pro-Touring world... their company's name is Altra 9. In their product's descriptions they use the verbiage: "Engineer / DOT approved for road use" meaning their product was not designed specifically for "racing only".

Here's their website: http://www.altra9.com.au/altra_9_floater_axle_kits.html

They are based out of Australia and will gladly ship to the USA. A lot of their product is
constructed in the USA. The GMR may still be the best option but there are alternatives and I'm sure the more popular Pro-Touring gets, the more products will surface.

Based on what I said ……no others advertise as “designed for Pro Tour” I don’t know how you wouldn’t totally agree with me. I will say it again….no other kit advertises their kit specifically for PRO TOUR. (OK, maybe BAER…but is that kit even out? It has to be available to qualify for this argument.)

Now with that being said I will let you know that ALTRA9 does NOT cater to Pro Tour, nor does the company imply this. Just because they advertise DOT, does not qualify this product as PRO TOUR specific. There are millions of DOT products that would not be compatible with PRO TOUR. Why would you think this companies floater kits are Pro Tour when they do not have any offerings to even run large rotors? Or the caliper brackets to compliment. Now I would not expect any company to be able to accommodate all brake rotor sizes and calipers….but at least one larger rotor/caliper they prefer. This company mainly runs 3/8” thick, small diameter rotors. Correct me if I am wrong….but I have yet to see one of PT.com’s members with a 3/8” thick rotor?

When I spoke with this company (Darren) “ the head guy”, he did not even know what size bearings where in the kit! Knowing he did not even know this, I almost did not ask my next question….how wide is the bearing spread? Shocker….he did not know and said he would have to research and get back to me. I proceeded to ask him if ANY of his hub kits accommodated a 14” rotor….sounded as if I where asking for a 18” Titanium rotor….he did a lot of himmin and hommin and said he could most likely make something? Now at this point I was very aware that this guy does not know much about this product and one could only assume he did not design and surely did not manufacturer the items or you would know these most trivial of questions. OK…one more kicker….while talking about larger rotors…he even suggested possibly a one piece rotor (since he has no rotor adapter) that would index over the hub/wheel studs! Wow….so I am gonna throw down on a full floater and then land a 1 piece rotor on it? Your killing me! I will say Darren was very nice guy and I am sure he is very good with the type cars he caters too….but he knows/offers nothing specifically for PRO TOUR.

P.S. Didn’t you purchase a Moser CIRCLE TRACK kit? I know you originally wanted a 35 spline Wavetrac, but thought ended up having to settle for 31 spline Wavetrac with 24 spline drive plate and steel rotor adaptor to get a larger rotor? Why didn’t you buy a GMR floater….you could have ran the 35 spline Wavetrac/axles w/35 spline drive plates and had a much lighter rotor adapter? :rolleyes:

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Badride - you obviously know the floater design issues and have done the market research. Props to you for being a loyal GMR customer and thank you for helping me via PM in the past. I completely understand the desire for more splines, running a larger bearing spread, using the correct/desired rotor size, correct/desired lug pattern, and reduced unsprung weight. You have made all these valid arguments. My only open issues in going w Jason's kit are threefold - it's as untested as Baer's, I'm still not sure Baer's 24 spline is a deal killer and it's by far the most expensive kit. I look forward to the day your car is on the road so we can get a real world look at it...Cheers Bro!

[454bug]

P.S. Didn’t you purchase a Moser CIRCLE TRACK kit? I know you originally wanted a 35 spline Wavetrac, but thought ended up having to settle for 31 spline Wavetrac with 24 spline drive plate and steel rotor adaptor to get a larger rotor? Why didn’t you buy a GMR floater….you could have ran the 35 spline Wavetrac/axles w/35 spline drive plates and had a much lighter rotor adapter? :rolleyes:

Hey Baddride,

I'm not here to argue with you... There's no doubt that Jason's kit is the most well designed and complete kit out there. There's no argument with that for sure. My only point in my previous post is there are other companies that have products that can be worked with. Maybe a few things would have to be produced or sourced elsewhere (larger rotor adaptors and caliper brackets) but that doen't mean that you couldn't work with other company's stuff. There are plenty of items with these Pro-touring projects that have to be pieced together and sourced separately to get what you want. It's nice that Jason has done this for us on his floater kit but it comes at a price...

To answer your question about my car, when I bought my setup, GMR didn't have their kit out. If it would have been, I would have probably budgeted for it and included it in my build. Unfortunately, I was too far gone and already purchased all my pieces prior to the introduction of the GMR kit. I know I have designed and redesigned a number of areas on my car making it up as I go but you've got to draw the line somewhere on buying parts two and three times trying to keep up with the "latest, greatest"... It's like trying to buy the very best PC that's out there and 6 months later it's totally outdated... It's a futile battle with trying to hit a moving target... :banghead: In addition, the difference in weight of my steel rotor adapters versus aluminum ones is probably 1-2 pounds per side. They needed to be steel to work with my traction control magnetic speed sensors... :)

There's no doubt you've done your homework and it's not hard to see that Jason's kit is the perfect Pro-touring kit - if you can afford it and you haven't already committed to something else (ie - already spent your hard earned money). Who wouldn't want 35-splines instead of 24-splines? Except for the reasons already listed above... Bottom line, I don't plan to have racing slicks on my car that often producing the shock loads that would tend to strip out these 24-spline drive plates. In our environment (street, autocrossing, road racing) we are VERY limited by our available traction, especially in these Pro-touring events that require a 200-rating or higher tire. In most every case, you will lose traction way before you put sufficient torque to these axles ends. I discussed this at length with my circle-track racing buddy who races asphalt circle track almost every weekend... His son's class has a 750-800 hp engine in a 3,200# car and he has only stripped a few 24-spline drive plates in 25 years of racing and EVERY one of them was during the dropping of the jack and dumping the clutch in the pits (during an adreneline-pumping race) with an 11"-wide, super-hot, super-sticky racing slick.

There's overkill in everything we are doing with these cars... There's nothing wrong with excess in these areas. There's nothing wrong with added safety factor and extended life of your equipment. I applaud and encourage that. But GMR's kit is not the only kit that will work on our cars. It probably is the best and definitely the most complete out of the box but that doesn't mean that everyone else's "circle track" kits will not work.

We also all realize that Jason comes from the world of Baja racing... EVERYTHING he does is overkill for all the right reasons... long life and reliabilty. But, all that long life and reliability comes at a price. The circle track kit I purchased cost less than $700 (with my custom big-inch rotor adapters) versus GMR's $1,800. Everything has a budget associated with it and people make choices. There are a number of wheels out there for our cars that cost $1,000 each and other really nice ones that cost just $400-$500... They both serve their purpose just fine.

I've been watching Jason's videos of the installation of the GMR kit in your car and I look forward to seeing the finished product... I will truly be envious!! :cheers:

[BADDRIDE II]

Badride - you obviously know the floater design issues and have done the market research. Props to you for being a loyal GMR customer and thank you for helping me via PM in the past. I completely understand the desire for more splines, running a larger bearing spread, using the correct/desired rotor size, correct/desired lug pattern, and reduced unsprung weight. You have made all these valid arguments. My only open issues in going w Jason's kit are threefold - it's as untested as Baer's, I'm still not sure Baer's 24 spline is a deal killer and it's by far the most expensive kit. I look forward to the day your car is on the road so we can get a real world look at it...Cheers Bro!

Hey Ron, I always enjoy your input as you seem to be very observent, with great neautral input too. Your concearns are to be respected. Some of us jump all the way in...and some wait at shores edge until water is just right. Either way I am sure you will be swimming soon! I do believe Donny (dontlifttoshift) will be up and running before many others. As for my Nova with this GMR rear....I am pecking away at it as we all do. I had a few setbacks (helping Father complete his project) but am back on track. I can tell you can appreciate nice things as your Camaro sports top notch components, and only worked on by top notch sources. Later Ron :cheers:

[dontlifttoshift]

I should be up and running for the weekend am I the first to be running? I've never been first at anything.......

[Roadrage David]

Please ecscuse my ignorense , as im dispectic and having trouble with my eyes(going to hospital soon for surgery). so its difeculd for me to understand what this floating hub is, and ore thuse. could somebody tell me what full floater hubs are good for. im building a road race car and i might be intrested if it would help durabilety and ore speed ecetera .. the car wil have massif slicks tires in the rear and frond. 16x14x27 rear 16x 12x25 frond...

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Hey Ron, I always enjoy your input as you seem to be very observent, with great neautral input too. Your concearns are to be respected. Some of us jump all the way in...and some wait at shores edge until water is just right. Either way I am sure you will be swimming soon! I do believe Donny (dontlifttoshift) will be up and running before many others. As for my Nova with this GMR rear....I am pecking away at it as we all do. I had a few setbacks (helping Father complete his project) but am back on track. I can tell you can appreciate nice things as your Camaro sports top notch components, and only worked on by top notch sources. Later Ron :cheers:

Nothing but class Sir...:cheers:


I should be up and running for the weekend am I the first to be running? I've never been first at anything.......

Haha Donny - ya'are now! :)


Please ecscuse my ignorense , as im dispectic and having trouble with my eyes(going to hospital soon for surgery). so its difeculd for me to understand what this floating hub is, and ore thuse. could somebody tell me what full floater hubs are good for. im building a road race car and i might be intrested if it would help durabilety and ore speed ecetera .. the car wil have massif slicks tires in the rear and frond. 16x14x27 rear 16x 12x25 frond...

David good luck w your surgery! It's amazing how many of us deal w health issues on the way to the track :lol:...Anyway, floater hubs or 'rears' as they are called allow the caliper to move w the rotor thereby not pushing the piston inward. This keeps your brakes as fresh as they can be and eliminites the need to give 'em a pump or two heading into a corner. This explained it to me:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

If you can keep your axle bearing play to a minimum, some people have virtually eliminated the problem. John Parsons and AME Matt have engineered their way out of the issue. Others use a residual valve to keep constant pressure on the piston. From what I understand - Im a rookie - this would not be optimal for street use as your piston is always pushing out to the rotor. It may be the ticket for a dedicated track car. I believe Brian Finch uses/has tried this? Others have had success w 'semi-floaters' which allow the caliper to move a little as well via mounting. Vegas Todd and Larry have had success with this route.

Keep us posted on your health Sir...:cheers:

[BADDRIDE II]

Hey Baddride,

I'm not here to argue with you... There's no doubt that Jason's kit is the most well designed and complete kit out there. There's no argument with that for sure. My only point in my previous post is there are other companies that have products that can be worked with. Maybe a few things would have to be produced or sourced elsewhere (larger rotor adaptors and caliper brackets) but that doen't mean that you couldn't work with other company's stuff. There are plenty of items with these Pro-touring projects that have to be pieced together and sourced separately to get what you want. It's nice that Jason has done this for us on his floater kit but it comes at a price...

To answer your question about my car, when I bought my setup, GMR didn't have their kit out. If it would have been, I would have probably budgeted for it and included it in my build. Unfortunately, I was too far gone and already purchased all my pieces prior to the introduction of the GMR kit. I know I have designed and redesigned a number of areas on my car making it up as I go but you've got to draw the line somewhere on buying parts two and three times trying to keep up with the "latest, greatest"... It's like trying to buy the very best PC that's out there and 6 months later it's totally outdated... It's a futile battle with trying to hit a moving target... :banghead: In addition, the difference in weight of my steel rotor adapters versus aluminum ones is probably 1-2 pounds per side. They needed to be steel to work with my traction control magnetic speed sensors... :)

There's no doubt you've done your homework and it's not hard to see that Jason's kit is the perfect Pro-touring kit - if you can afford it and you haven't already committed to something else (ie - already spent your hard earned money). Who wouldn't want 35-splines instead of 24-splines? Except for the reasons already listed above... Bottom line, I don't plan to have racing slicks on my car that often producing the shock loads that would tend to strip out these 24-spline drive plates. In our environment (street, autocrossing, road racing) we are VERY limited by our available traction, especially in these Pro-touring events that require a 200-rating or higher tire. In most every case, you will lose traction way before you put sufficient torque to these axles ends. I discussed this at length with my circle-track racing buddy who races asphalt circle track almost every weekend... His son's class has a 750-800 hp engine in a 3,200# car and he has only stripped a few 24-spline drive plates in 25 years of racing and EVERY one of them was during the dropping of the jack and dumping the clutch in the pits (during an adreneline-pumping race) with an 11"-wide, super-hot, super-sticky racing slick.

There's overkill in everything we are doing with these cars... There's nothing wrong with excess in these areas. There's nothing wrong with added safety factor and extended life of your equipment. I applaud and encourage that. But GMR's kit is not the only kit that will work on our cars. It probably is the best and definitely the most complete out of the box but that doesn't mean that everyone else's "circle track" kits will not work.

We also all realize that Jason comes from the world of Baja racing... EVERYTHING he does is overkill for all the right reasons... long life and reliabilty. But, all that long life and reliability comes at a price. The circle track kit I purchased cost less than $700 (with my custom big-inch rotor adapters) versus GMR's $1,800. Everything has a budget associated with it and people make choices. There are a number of wheels out there for our cars that cost $1,000 each and other really nice ones that cost just $400-$500... They both serve their purpose just fine.

I've been watching Jason's videos of the installation of the GMR kit in your car and I look forward to seeing the finished product... I will truly be envious!! :cheers:

I can appreciate all you have said. I am just the kind of guy that wants to share all I have learned, and when I come across a product/service that I believe in.......I will endorse every chance I get as you have seen (hey Jason...if you're listening...how about a free shirt!)

But as a final thought and message to others that are contemplating a floater rear, and have not purchased existing parts. I think it would be safe to say that The GMR kit would be the best choice for the “Pro Tour” style cars that will run higher HP and sticky tires, and dump the clutch every now and then (like pretty much all of us do during adrenaline pumping moments).

Your buddy’s son running the 750hp car is a prime example of what I have been explaining…..when using 24 spline drive plates with high HP (much less than 750hp), sticky tires and dumping the clutch, these 24 spline drive plates ARE known to fail. I also assume he is running the larger hub with larger bolt pattern too, that is slightly stronger than the type a few others on here are trying to retrofit. As I have also wrote in previous posts, if one was to even upgrade to a 35 spline drive plate on a CIRCLE TRACK kit to try to eliminate this weak point…..it would then transfer the stress inboard to the wheel studs/ hub body. More specifically to the wheel stud mounting bosses that lack necessary material for this type impact/HP/TRQ. I am not saying these CIRCLE TRACK kits are bad as they have suited just fine for their “intended use” for the most part….just NEVER intended for our specific type use.

So between the KNOWN failures of the 24 spline drive plates, all the time and effort/$ to retrofit a CIRCLE TRACK kit for big brakes, only to agree that it will still most likely be inadequate/prone to failure…..I do not understand how anyone would want to run anything other than components designed specifically for our type street/racing abuse?

I understand you have less into your kit….but even you realize it IS a weak link. And now you have invested $700 and time into something that is known to be marginal in an arena (AUTO-X/TRACK) you will most likely step into. I think we have all purchased parts over and over only to realize it was not the best option….but when it comes to hard core components (engine/tranny/rears) I say put the correct/best available one in at all cost, and not throw good money at bad.

I also am fascinated by everyone’s concerns of cost of The GMR kit, you would think we were talking about 4-5-6 grand…..not under 2K. When you think about the money that is being thrown around on our cars…….should this 2K really be an issue for such a key component? I am far far (actually broke) from rich and find myself waiting/saving until I can afford the right part before I will just purchase a cheaper one that most likely will not work. For example, I had purchased a Currie F9 housing prior to coming across The GMR (and without getting into this story) I ditched this component and went with one better suited for my application. With your buddy/buddy’s son I would think you could recoup most all your money if you wanted, and could re-invest in a part that sounds like you do believe in and would prefer. Just FYI – should this get your wheels turning…..it is not mandatory to run a steel rotor adaptor to incorporate a toner ring. You have already got the dimensioning necessary and could simply “bolt on” a steel toner ring to an aluminum rotor adapter.

Thank you for your compliments on my project…..yours as you already I am sure know…..is bad ass too! :grouphug:

[Damn True]

How much does this add to the length of an existing 9" housing with "Big" ford ends?

[BADDRIDE II]

How much does this add to the length of an existing 9" housing with "Big" ford ends?

Recently unemployed (hey Jason...how about a job!).....I find more time to chat now. I assume you are referring to the GMR kit? If so….I know this is a shocker to everyone, but I think I can answer.

Assuming you are wanting to re-use an existing wheel tire combo. The easiest way to explain, would be to measure FROM your current WMS (wheel mount surface), inboard toward your 3rd member. Make a mark at 5 inches on your axle tube. This mark would be your cutoff point/new snout weld point. Once new snout is welded into existing axle tube, and hub assembly completely installed, you would be back to your same WMS. Hope this answered your question?

[dontlifttoshift]

(hey Jason...if you're listening...how about a free shirt!)

My shirt was 1,800 bucks but I got a free floater kit with it.


How much does this add to the length of an existing 9" housing with "Big" ford ends?

True, are you talking about the just the housing or the whole assembly? I can't remember how much just the housing grew. My hub to hub width remained exactly the same.

[dontlifttoshift]

I cut my ends off in the lathe across the street at the hydraulic shop......it was very cool.....and a little scary

50005

[Ron.in.SoCal]

^ Holy Sheet Donnie....!!

[Damn True]

Just the housing. I don't have axles, brakes or any of those bits yet. Just wondering if this, or a similar kit, would necessarily add to the length of the assembly.

[BADDRIDE II]

^ Holy Sheet Donnie....!!

X 2.....I recommend a helmet/steel toe shoes.....and a chest protector next time!

[BADDRIDE II]

Just the housing. I don't have axles, brakes or any of those bits yet. Just wondering if this, or a similar kit, would necessarily add to the length of the assembly.

I do not understand your concerns. With no wheels/tires/brakes/etc. you are a poster child for this. How does overall housing length effect your application? What is your application (car/rear suspension/mini tub/desired rotor size/etc)?

[Ron.in.SoCal]

True - from what I've learned, there should be no problem unless you have a very narrow rear with suspension link brackets very close to your houring ends. For example, my housing is 50 1/2 end to end not including axles (yikes!). My Quadralink brackets are about 2" inboard (going off memory here) and I'm thinking I may have a problem with the snout ends. As B-Ride says above, if you're in the planning stages you have lots of options...

Baer thinks I should have no problems with their kit. Others could be a problem depending on snout design?

Edit: Brackets look like 3" inboard, plus 2" for axle ends puts me @ ~ 5" clearance...

[BADDRIDE II]

True - from what I've learned, there should be no problem unless you have a very narrow rear with suspension link brackets very close to your houring ends. For example, my housing is 50 1/2 end to end not including axles (yikes!). My Quadralink brackets are about 2" inboard (going off memory here) and I'm thinking I may have a problem with the snout ends. As B-Ride says above, if you're in the planning stages you have lots of options...

Baer thinks I should have no problems with their kit. Others could be a problem depending on snout design?

Edit: Brackets look like 3" inboard, plus 2" for axle ends puts me @ ~ 5" clearance...

Hey Ron, as you know, I also run DSE Quadra-link. So I am familiar with what you are contending with should you ever come swimming. Although the two are slightly different applications, I do understand. Due to your current WMS to WMS restriction basically to accommodate your existing wheel & tire package, you need to end up with the same WMS to WMS.

You are correct (as usual) that pretty much the only limiting factor to maintain an existing WMS is the suspension bracketry and sometimes shocks, and for some even wheel tubs once calipers are mounted. If you have 5 inches from WMS to bracketry you are allowed to come swimming.

Another beautiful thing about the GMR kit is its ability to fine tune it to your application. In your case what I mean is….lets assume the GMR kit will be used with 1.25” thick rotors, rotor indexed one way on the rotor adapter measures 5-1/4” from WMS to back side of rotor (this will be the largest it can be, using a 1.25” rotor). Take the same rotor (or actually opposing side since most rotors are directional) and flip it over and mount it to the rotor adapter and you now have a 4-7/8” WMS to back side of rotor. Ok now you have one more way to mount the rotor to the other side of the rotor adapter which gives you a 4-5/8” distance from WMS to rotor adapter (which is now the closest thing to your bracketry since rotor is mounted on other side). So basically the GMR hub setup can be adjusted from a total outside to outside dimension of 5-1/4” to 4-7/8” to 4-5/8” depending on how rotor is mounted on rotor adapter.

Now with this being said, you will see again another advantage of the design of the GMR hub/snout/rotor adapter. Jason has managed to keep the narrowest entire setup for broad adaptability, all while maintaining a wide bearing spread. In order for BAER to minimize entire unit size with their design….they sacrificed bearing spread which I believe we all would agree is not desirable. If they had only sacrificed minimal bearing spread I would say this would not be an issue for longevity…but if you will notice the bearings are almost right next to each other. So for this reason as well as the 24 spline drive plate design I was disappointed. This bearing spread is even wider in DRAG type hub bodies that only see straight lines….just sayin’. Their product design focus was on application adaptability and not so much on strength/longevity (makes sense right….sell more units if it fits). Whereas GMR’s design focus was on strength/longevity and also managed to create a compact unit funny enough. :smoke:

[Bryce]

BADRIDE,

Thank you for the explanations.

[BADDRIDE II]

BADRIDE,

Thank you for the explanations.

No problem Bryce, I knew you had already came to this conclusion....but used your post to inform others. :usa:

[BADDRIDE II]

True - from what I've learned, there should be no problem unless you have a very narrow rear with suspension link brackets very close to your houring ends. For example, my housing is 50 1/2 end to end not including axles (yikes!). My Quadralink brackets are about 2" inboard (going off memory here) and I'm thinking I may have a problem with the snout ends. As B-Ride says above, if you're in the planning stages you have lots of options...

Baer thinks I should have no problems with their kit. Others could be a problem depending on snout design?

Edit: Brackets look like 3" inboard, plus 2" for axle ends puts me @ ~ 5" clearance...

Hey Ron, just a thought. If you currently have 3" from housing flange to nearest bracket.....wouldnt you have an additional 2.36" or 2.5" depending on brake kit offset for either a total of 5.36" or even 5.5"? Just curious and not sure if you are rounding numbers or if are being exact with the 5". Either way you will be good. Here is a shot of mine before it left GMR. As you will see I still had room to go to the nearest suspension bracket...as well as I could of clocked my rotor different on the rotor adapter to gain more clearance if needed. Check out the stainless steel lower shock brackets that gain some ride height adjustability that DSE bracketry did not allow for. I think a nice stainless rear would look nice under yours :poke:

50017

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Hey Ron, as you know, I also run DSE Quadra-link. So I am familiar with what you are contending with should you ever come swimming. Although the two are slightly different applications, I do understand. Due to your current WMS to WMS restriction basically to accommodate your existing wheel & tire package, you need to end up with the same WMS to WMS.

You are correct (as usual) that pretty much the only limiting factor to maintain an existing WMS is the suspension bracketry and sometimes shocks, and for some even wheel tubs once calipers are mounted. If you have 5 inches from WMS to bracketry you are allowed to come swimming.

Another beautiful thing about the GMR kit is its ability to fine tune it to your application. In your case what I mean is….lets assume the GMR kit will be used with 1.25” thick rotors, rotor indexed one way on the rotor adapter measures 5-1/4” from WMS to back side of rotor (this will be the largest it can be, using a 1.25” rotor). Take the same rotor (or actually opposing side since most rotors are directional) and flip it over and mount it to the rotor adapter and you now have a 4-7/8” WMS to back side of rotor. Ok now you have one more way to mount the rotor to the other side of the rotor adapter which gives you a 4-5/8” distance from WMS to rotor adapter (which is now the closest thing to your bracketry since rotor is mounted on other side). So basically the GMR hub setup can be adjusted from a total outside to outside dimension of 5-1/4” to 4-7/8” to 4-5/8” depending on how rotor is mounted on rotor adapter.

Now with this being said, you will see again another advantage of the design of the GMR hub/snout/rotor adapter. Jason has managed to keep the narrowest entire setup for broad adaptability, all while maintaining a wide bearing spread. In order for BAER to minimize entire unit size with their design….they sacrificed bearing spread which I believe we all would agree is not desirable. If they had only sacrificed minimal bearing spread I would say this would not be an issue for longevity…but if you will notice the bearings are almost right next to each other. So for this reason as well as the 24 spline drive plate design I was disappointed. This bearing spread is even wider in DRAG type hub bodies that only see straight lines….just sayin’. Their product design focus was on application adaptability and not so much on strength/longevity (makes sense right….sell more units if it fits). Whereas GMR’s design focus was on strength/longevity and also managed to create a compact unit funny enough. :smoke:

BR - you have this topic down. Thx for taking the time to explain it in detail...:thumbsup:

Now get back to work on your BAD RIDE!

[Roadrage David]

Nothing but class Sir...:cheers:



Haha Donny - ya'are now! :)



David good luck w your surgery! It's amazing how many of us deal w health issues on the way to the track :lol:...Anyway, floater hubs or 'rears' as they are called allow the caliper to move w the rotor thereby not pushing the piston inward. This keeps your brakes as fresh as they can be and eliminites the need to give 'em a pump or two heading into a corner. This explained it to me:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_knockback.shtml

If you can keep your axle bearing play to a minimum, some people have virtually eliminated the problem. John Parsons and AME Matt have engineered their way out of the issue. Others use a residual valve to keep constant pressure on the piston. From what I understand - Im a rookie - this would not be optimal for street use as your piston is always pushing out to the rotor. It may be the ticket for a dedicated track car. I believe Brian Finch uses/has tried this? Others have had success w 'semi-floaters' which allow the caliper to move a little as well via mounting. Vegas Todd and Larry have had success with this route.

Keep us posted on your health Sir...:cheers:
Thanks Ron ..so if i understand it coreckly it helps the rear brakes funktion better in having no drag and ore piston knock back witch causes ecsesif wear and ore brake fade??!!... ore are there more benifits .....ps nov 10 hospital!!.

[BADDRIDE II]

Thanks Ron ..so if i understand it coreckly it helps the rear brakes funktion better in having no drag and ore piston knock back witch causes ecsesif wear and ore brake fade??!!... ore are there more benifits .....ps nov 10 hospital!!.

There are a few other benefits as well. The overall weight and rotational weight of this GMR hub kit/brakes is lighter than a comparable traditional semi-floater axle/brake set-up. But probably one of the biggest advantages is the safety factor. With a traditional semi-floater axle if one were to break an axle, the entire wheel/tire set-up would come out from the axle tube and cause MAJOR damage to both car & driver. With a full floater as GMR's the wheel/tire assembly stays in tact and you will come to a safe stop with no damage to car or driver. By going with a full floater as GMR's, you will not be continually be replacing bearings/seals (in a race environment) as in a semi-floater applications. LIGHTER/STRONGER/FASTER!

[Roadrage David]

OK wil that system be availeble for a moser 12 bold and my brakes. i have a diferend(beter) brand of brakes that where mentiond in this topic..also wil the wheel tire combo stick out more??useing that floater system...

[BADDRIDE II]

OK wil that system be availeble for a moser 12 bold and my brakes. i have a diferend(beter) brand of brakes that where mentiond in this topic..also wil the wheel tire combo stick out more??useing that floater system...

Yes it will fit a Moser 12 bolt.....it will actually fit any rear housing with 3" or 3.25" axle tubes. What brakes do you have? As for the wheel/tire....no it will not stick out any further than your current setup.

[Roadrage David]

I have custom build Brake man brake tornado F4 brakes frond and rear http://youtu.be/zpBPopHUe68 http://www.thebrakeman.com/scca___nasa

[The GMR]

Here is another link to 31 spline hub. http://www.9inchfloater.com/RrEndKits/RrEndKits_28_31.htm
and another link to a 35/40 spline http://www.9inchfloater.com/RrEndKits/RrEndKits_35_40.htm

What would make the above floaters not applicable to pro-touring.

In no way am I discounting what Jason and GMR have brought to the pro-touring world.

Bryce,

There are some overall differences in the products we offer compared to Ron's offering. His philosophy and products fill a completely different side of the market in my opinion but if you were to compare side by side the main ones I see are the following.

-GMR is lighter (precision machined billet hub body)
-GMR is stronger (larger bearings and crush sleeve unit)
-GMR is faster (less rotating mass and larger bearings provide reduced power loss from drive train system)

There are more differences but overall I feel as though we satisfy a specific niche that other companies do not even compete in.

How is the build going? I remember you had some cool stuff in the works with suspension, how is all that going?

Jason

[The GMR]

How much does this add to the length of an existing 9" housing with "Big" ford ends?

The GMR setup is 5 inches from WMS to where the tube must be cut for the snout.

If you figure a 2.5 offset for the BBF then another 2 inches for the machined end your only about .5" of tube left that needs to be trimmed. With our setup you can clock the brakes in any fashion to fit all applications. In the case of the black nova (BaddrideII) we had to clock the caliper over so that it would clear the frame at bump.

jason

[The GMR]

I should be up and running for the weekend am I the first to be running? I've never been first at anything.......

You might be the first with the new generation of style, but not the first GMR floater. I have had about 6 different designs, all very close in design but not style. The one we currently have is the final, after several different prototypes. We have several clients with the new generation, but not sure if they are actually running just yet.

As for the first to run the coated and laser etched units... you just might be! haha
jason

[The GMR]

Just the housing. I don't have axles, brakes or any of those bits yet. Just wondering if this, or a similar kit, would necessarily add to the length of the assembly.

Chances are no, with all the setups I have come across there usually is a way to maintain the same WMS-WMS measurement. It may be a little tricky but it can be done.

jason

[The GMR]

True - from what I've learned, there should be no problem unless you have a very narrow rear with suspension link brackets very close to your houring ends. For example, my housing is 50 1/2 end to end not including axles (yikes!). My Quadralink brackets are about 2" inboard (going off memory here) and I'm thinking I may have a problem with the snout ends. As B-Ride says above, if you're in the planning stages you have lots of options...

Baer thinks I should have no problems with their kit. Others could be a problem depending on snout design?

Edit: Brackets look like 3" inboard, plus 2" for axle ends puts me @ ~ 5" clearance...


Are you local to us?

I can simply stop by and see the rear end to tell you a for sure if you need me to. Or, if you bring me the housing I can also reference it to give you an answer.

The DSE components are usually tricky but it is very possible none the less.

PM sent.
Jason

[The GMR]

I have custom build Brake man brake tornado F4 brakes frond and rear http://youtu.be/zpBPopHUe68 http://www.thebrakeman.com/scca___nasa

Im very familiar with those calipers, I can make those work on a 12 bolt, no problem. I will need the rear end to do so but it can be done.

thanks
Jason

[Roadrage David]

mmmmmm very intresting Jason But the rear end in is europe *((*%$@@^%*&^@!. we do have a set of brake man calipers at the brake man company set up for the 12 bold !!. for a frind of mine.

[The GMR]

mmmmmm very intresting Jason But the rear end in is europe *((*%$@@^%*&^@!. we do have a set of brake man calipers at the brake man company set up for the 12 bold !!. for a frind of mine.

No problem, I can design a caliper mount with the rotor and caliper only. The one part I will not be able to do it weld in the snouts, but if you have a good fabricator over there then it will not be a problem to have them weld the snouts into the housing.

please let me know
thanks
Jason

[Roadrage David]

that would not be a problem . i need to ask brake man brakes if the calliper and rotor size of my frinds set is the same.

[Bryce]

Bryce,

There are some overall differences in the products we offer compared to Ron's offering. His philosophy and products fill a completely different side of the market in my opinion but if you were to compare side by side the main ones I see are the following.

-GMR is lighter (precision machined billet hub body)
-GMR is stronger (larger bearings and crush sleeve unit)
-GMR is faster (less rotating mass and larger bearings provide reduced power loss from drive train system)

There are more differences but overall I feel as though we satisfy a specific niche that other companies do not even compete in.

How is the build going? I remember you had some cool stuff in the works with suspension, how is all that going?

Jason

Jason,

We have talked before and I know you know your stuff. Thank you for bring this product to market.

My build is going good. I recently finished my 3-link with watts (aluminum cradle, total system is 8.4 pounds). My daughter is almost 4weeks old, so my priorities have shifted.

I now have 2 front and 2 rear suspension of my own design in my personal cars. And I am doing some suspension designing on the side. Maybe its is time for me to start "Baumgart Engineered Suspensions"?

Good luck with everything. I will end up going this route in the future. Right now I am running drums in the back. I will be going this route when I switch to discs. Maybe I will go with a complete new housing. We can talk about this later, but if you send me a CATIA model of your housing I could send back a model with all my brackets and flat patterns so that I could have a drop in unit!

[Nessumsar]

I now have 2 front and 2 rear suspension of my own design in my personal cars. And I am doing some suspension designing on the side. Maybe its is time for me to start "Baumgart Engineered Suspensions"?

I've got a project for you!

/threadjack

[BADDRIDE II]

Looks awesome Jason, Cannot wait to get it mounted up.

Thanks for the brackets

Hey Frank, I overlooked this somehow.....looks like you are taking care of Daredvl22's GMR kit? Do you guys have it mounted up yet. Can you post up some pics? :pics2:

[daredvl22]

Everything is in Moser's hands at the moment. Hopefully they'll be finished early next week, then they have to ship everything to me. Don't worry, once I have it, I'll post pics!

[BADDRIDE II]

Everything is in Moser's hands at the moment. Hopefully they'll be finished early next week, then they have to ship everything to me. Don't worry, once I have it, I'll post pics!

Nice Dave, sorry....guess I should have asked you to post pics since its your rear :hand:. Cannot wait to see it!

[dontlifttoshift]

150 miles and 12 autocross runs and nothing fell off. Worth noting, no knockback whatsoever, even with my ridiculous wheel and tire.

[BADDRIDE II]

150 miles and 12 autocross runs and nothing fell off. Worth noting, no knockback whatsoever, even with my ridiculous wheel and tire.

Congradulations Donny!

[Bryce]

150 miles and 12 autocross runs and nothing fell off. Worth noting, no knockback whatsoever, even with my ridiculous wheel and tire.

Awesome!

[The GMR]

POST UP SOME PICS!!!!

I know quite a few members on PT.com have their GMR rear setups going so lets see them!

Also, thanks for the support and everyone's patience as we transition to a Pure Pro-Touring dedicated company.... Yes, the Off-Road side of GMR is gone and I'm not looking back!

Jason

[daredvl22]

Thought I'd post some pics. I finally received my rear, but have a few issues, none of which have anything to do with Jason or GMR. He has been great, going above and beyond my expectations! I'll post more pics once I've got everything else worked out.......more details to come. Anyway, here it is for now.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/GMR-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo4-2.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo5-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo6-1.jpg

[BADDRIDE II]

Rear set-up looks super nice Dave! I noticed rotors are bolted to the rotor adaptor in such a way that places the caliper closest to inner wheel tub/frame.....do the calipers still clear the inner tub/frame at full compression? Perhaps this was done for needed clearance to the wheel in relation to caliper? Either way if it all works in this location it really does not matter, I was just suprised caliper cleared the tub/frame, and also the caliper bracket on the axle tube clears the suspension bracketry. Your wheels looks BAD! :twothumbs

[daredvl22]

Yeah, there's plenty of clearance. The wheels are so wide, I've got plenty of room to hide everything within the wheel.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo7-2.jpg

Here's a shot of the wheel straight on. Since the whole assembly sets further inside the wheel (which I really like) it makes the rotor actually look small!. I never thought a 14" rotor would look small! The wheel is 19", so..... Overall, I love the way it looks. It's completely different than anything I've seen. No deep dish on the outside, etc. It just works really well. I will post a bunch more pics once I've got everything back. Unfortunately, the entire rear end had to go back to Moser. They built the rear 2 inches too narrow. So.....they are starting over :(......... Serious headache, but it will be corrected and I'll get on with the project! Stay tuned.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo61-1.jpg

[baddrides]

looks really tough,........need to see this one finished

[BADDRIDE II]

Yeah, there's plenty of clearance. The wheels are so wide, I've got plenty of room to hide everything within the wheel.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo7-2.jpg

Here's a shot of the wheel straight on. Since the whole assembly sets further inside the wheel (which I really like) it makes the rotor actually look small!. I never thought a 14" rotor would look small! The wheel is 19", so..... Overall, I love the way it looks. It's completely different than anything I've seen. No deep dish on the outside, etc. It just works really well. I will post a bunch more pics once I've got everything back. Unfortunately, the entire rear end had to go back to Moser. They built the rear 2 inches too narrow. So.....they are starting over :(......... Serious headache, but it will be corrected and I'll get on with the project! Stay tuned.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/photo61-1.jpg


Now thats a tire Dave! You are making us first Gen Nova guys very jealous. I would need a shoe horn and some Vaseline....and at least five miutes to get that into my mini-tub :rotfl: I too like the way the rotor/caliper are all concealed into the wheel....looks sweet!

I think SoCalRon will appreciate this picture of the DSE bracketry clearing the whole floater hub/rotor/caliper set-up! I believe "other" floater kits on the market that have been retrofitted to work in our sport had issues with clearing tub/frame on the first Gen Camaro's....cool to see that GMR kit will fit without issue :cheers:

[dontlifttoshift]

Here are some pics of mine. I drew up the caliper brackets and had them laser cut for the DP6 calipers to work with the 13" rotor. The rest of the install was trouble free. I have a little over 2,500 miles on it now and at least 60 autocross runs and everything has worked flawless.

I saved some weight over the previous drum brake setup as well. All weights were taken on the same bathroom scale...not super accurate but it gives a good representation anyhow. Even as large as the 31 interior/35 exterior spline axles were they were approximately 7 pounds a piece lighter. Drums and loaded backing plates were about 8 pounds heavier than the rotor, loaded calipers, hubs, drive plates, and bearings. So overall saved about 30 pounds of unsprung weight.....not that it matters much when one wheel and tire weighs 65 pounds....that's the price you pay to be cool:spank2:
54553

The 13" rotor looks tiny but it worked out well. 12" rotors in the front with DP6 calipers all the way around, although the volume on the fronts is double what the rears are. Lucky guess, I only had to back the prop valve off 3 turns from wide open.54544545465454754548

The rest of the pics are way out of order but you get the idea. Our fixture bar for rear end alignment is 1.500" and the id of the GMR snouts is 1.560". Some copper shim stock wrapped around the bar accurately located the snouts straight and square. Once the snouts were tacked I did a quick mock up in the car to check for caliper clearance. This was the only hangup I had with the install. I needed the rotor adapters to fit inside the rotor instead of next to it and the od of the adapter was about .030" to large. A quick trip to the lathe (that anodizing is hard!) and we were in business. Then we tacked the caliper brackets on, using a trick Parsons showed all of us in that Chevy rag, compressed air to held the caliper in place. Radial mount calipers would have been nice here, the axle tubes had a little bow in them and one caliper bracket fit perfect and put the pads right on the money but the other took some adjustment. Triple checked alignment and welded the caliper brackets. After they were welded I checked the alignment of the housing and snouts and confirmed nothing moved and welded the four plug welds on each end. I let those cool off and double checked the alignment one last time, knowing that once that radial weld was done around the snout/axle tube it would be near impossible to get it to move. After final welding I checked again and had zeros all around with the digital level and the jig bar slid in and out and I knew we were good to go. The four wheel alignment showed 0 camber 0 toe so I guess we did okay.

Donny

[Bryce]

Looks good, nice write up! I will be going this route if I bend my modified axle retainers, check out my build thread for pics.

[Kenova]

So overall saved about 30 pounds of unsprung weight.....
Donny
Is that a difference that you can feel? As a percentage of your car's weight, that is a fair sized reduction.

Ken

[dontlifttoshift]

I would like to think that I am a good enough driver to feel the difference but the truth is I made too many changes at that point, ridetech t/a shocks and big disc brakes all the way around, that it is hard for me to credit any improvement to the weight savings. The car weighs 2650 with me in it but the unsprung wieght is huge in the back....nearly 140 pounds just in wheels and tires. The car was much faster, could drive deeper into corners and accelerate harder out of them knowing I had brakes that would haul the car down without flatspotting front tires. That and not having to worry about changing axle bearing before I drove 800 miles home allowed me to push the car harder than I had ever driven it in the past.

To answer your question.....the weight difference wasn't largely noticeable for my butt dyno.

[Kenova]

The car weighs 2650 with me in it........
:) I'll bet it's a blast to toss it around on the auto-x. Belts are probably needed just to stay in the car.

Ken

[dontlifttoshift]

HA! During the last redo I beefed up the quarter panels so they would quit bending while cornering. Lap belts and a bench seat.....it's easier to drive with another fat guy in there, there no room left to slide around then.

[Roadbuster]

Jason,
For this set up how far from the wheel mount surface is the center of the rotor?

[The GMR]

Jason,
For this set up how far from the wheel mount surface is the center of the rotor?

It really depends, the rotor can be bolted in 4 different ways each changing the center-line of the rotor relative to the wheel mount surface.

I can however tell you that the faces of the rotor adapter are 4.187 (outside face) and 4.553 inches (inside face).

please let me know if this helps?
Jason

[Roadbuster]

It really depends, the rotor can be bolted in 4 different ways each changing the center-line of the rotor relative to the wheel mount surface.

I can however tell you that the faces of the rotor adapter are 4.187 (outside face) and 4.553 inches (inside face).

please let me know if this helps?
Jason
Thank you, that does help. I am trying to see if this fits with my wheels and clears my frame. Looks like it could depending on the brake package. Time to get measuring and get some data sheets on calipers.

[The GMR]

Thank you, that does help. I am trying to see if this fits with my wheels and clears my frame. Looks like it could depending on the brake package. Time to get measuring and get some data sheets on calipers.


Please let me know what you plan on running, I just completed a setup for Baer Mono-blocks and their large rotors. I will have pics up shortly.


Jason

[The GMR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhGW0eBqwDg&feature=related


Jason

[The GMR]

Baer 6S Caliper Mounts for 3" housing tubes. I will have pictures of the Baer Rotor Adapters up shortly as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Jason

[Roadbuster]

Baer 6S Caliper Mounts for 3" housing tubes. I will have pictures of the Baer Rotor Adapters up shortly as well.


Jason

Looks nice!
Will the rotor adapters support the baer parking brake?

[The GMR]

Looks nice!
Will the rotor adapters support the baer parking brake?

We are making our own rotor adapter for the Baer line of rotors. Basically, an adapter that will utilize all the benefits of our hubs and the very high quality components that Baer has to offer when it comes to calipers and rotors.

Jason

[The GMR]

Baer Rotor Adapters are in stock NOW! Ready to Ship!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Baer 14 inch rotors and 6S calipers!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Jason

[TheJDMan]

Jason,
Just a hypothetical question at this point. As you know I have a Moser 9" floater which I purchased prior to the release of the GMR floater. Assuming I have a problem with the 24 spline drive plates, would it be possible to buy your 35 spline drive plates in 5on4.750 bolt pattern and axles with inbord 31 splines at some point in the future to upgrade the Moser hubs?

[dontlifttoshift]

Steve, the axles in my car are 31 spline interior and 35 spline exterior so yes, that can be done. As far as the drive plate working with your moser hub that may take some investigating.

[454bug]

Jason,
Just a hypothetical question at this point. As you know I have a Moser 9" floater which I purchased prior to the release of the GMR floater. Assuming I have a problem with the 24 spline drive plates, would it be possible to buy your 35 spline drive plates in 5on4.750 bolt pattern and axles with inbord 31 splines at some point in the future to upgrade the Moser hubs?

Hey Steve,

I have some of GMR's drive plates at home as well as one of Moser's floater hubs... I'll mate them together and see how it comes out.

I would have never thought of running a 31-spline differential and a 35-spline drive plate! I discussed my situation with Jason when I upgraded to his floater setup and he didn't mention the possibility of running my 31-spline Wavetrac... I ended up ordering a new center section with a 35-spline Wavetrac.

I'll post some pictures after I check it out this weekend.

[The GMR]

Steve,
Sorry we did not release our product sooner, but did the best we could. We would have liked to have you as a GMR customer!
As for your request, here are my thoughts:
The current circle track floater hubs were specifically designed with the 24 spline drive-plates in mind at time of conception. They did this to make sure the easily replaceable/consumable drive plate would fail rightfully before the hub body itself for safety reasons. You don’t want your hub body cracking or this can lead to the wheel coming off the rear end.
Think of your drive plate like an electrical fuse….if the component you are protecting (hub body) requires a 20amp fuse (24 spline drive plate) and you pop in a 40amp fuse (GMR 35 spline)……bam! Too much juice (hp/torque) to the component…….and there goes the component (hub body).
So with designing THE GMR kit from the ground up, knowing that I wanted to run a 35 spline drive-plate, you can only imagine how strong our hub body is!
So if you do require a 35 spline drive plate due to any number of reasons ( higher hp/torque, sticky tires, large tires, side stepping the clutch, all out longevity…or even just piece of mind) , I would have to suggest ANY kit specifically designed for the increased stress of a 35 spline drive-plate. Currently ours is the only one I know of. Sorry I could not be of more help, but do not think it would be safe adapting our 35 spline drive-plate onto your Moser hub body.


Ray,
Technically you can run a 28 spline interior with our system, the problem then becomes the uneven amount of strength with the axle. Even 31 spline it not recommended. I know that donny is running that, he did not want to change his setup so he machined axles that were 31 interior then 35 exterior. I will always suggest that you run 35 spline for both, that way you can get the full benefit from the setup as a whole. You mentioned that you already had the other components that I suggest,just not the same spline count. If you were in a position where you needed to purchase a complete new third member I would still suggest you go with 35 spline. I'm sorry if there was any confusion, I did not mean to mislead you in anyway, I just simply suggest what works best with how I designed the hub setup. Given what donny is running and his setup I'm sure he will be more then fine with the 31 for now, but only time will tell. I do believe he has talked about stepping up the power in his car by about 100+ ponies in the near future and I will suggest 35 spline when the time comes.