Thinking about pro-touring my C-4, what would you do?

[bergsvette]

I have been kicking this around for a while now and I am interested in your opinion. I have an 85 corvette, attached photo, and I have been thinking about doing an LS swap with the t-56. What else would you do to the suspensions, body, interior?

Thanks for your input and if anyone is a wiz with photo shop or can make a half decent rendering visuals always help.

Thanks
Nick

[SLO_Z28]

LS7, T56, C4ZR1 wheels. Lose the wing. Drop it 4 inches front and rear. Have someone like "Recovery Room" go all out on the interior.


Honestly, rather than "pro touring" a C4, id buy a C6 ZR1. Cant really make a new car pro touring...

[twosaturns]

IMO, the problem w/ 'new' corvettes (yes, I know it's 26 years old) is that they don't look 'vintage' yet; instead, they look stuck in the '80's. it looks like something the rich preppy kid would drive in a bad teen movie.
that being said, I agree that it needs to be dropped, w/ an LS swap. non-polished wheels, lose the wing and get/make a wide body kit, or at least ZR1 bodywork.

[jknight16]

Based on your picture and an assumption that your budget is not unlimited, this is where I'd start:

Lower it while improving the shock/spring package.
Replace all worn bushings.
Look into a modernized seat/carpet combo.
Steering wheel swap (looks like non airbag so shouldn't be an issue)
Lose the wing
Clean up the exhaust exit/tip situation.
Can't go wrong with an LS-swap. Probably smarter than trying to wake up the LT1.

I'm also keeping in mind that you said pro-touring, not pro-(build the baddest street car ever to roam the earth). The body looks to be in good condition.

[Mr. Anderson]

Big C4 fan here! I have to argue with my buddies about it all the time, they get no respect! The later C4's with the convex rear ends look FAR better in my opinion, so if you could get rid of the spoiler and swap out the rear end at the same time that would pretty much take care of all the visual cues (and a nice set of wheels). Your C6 wheels are not bad! I prefer less chrome though.

The suspension is ok out of the box but some shock/spring and brake upgrades would be first on my list. The powertrain can come later. But even then, I doubt it would be too difficult to drop an LSX and 6 speed in there. There have got to be kits for it.

This is one of my favorite looks on them. The ZR1/Grand Sport wheels while not huge, are awesome.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/vemp_1002_06_oc4_corvette_zr_1front_righ-1.jpg

[elitecustombody]

Don't waste your money, sell it and buy a car you really want with the money you plan on dumping into this one. It looks to be in decent shape,so you might get some money for it.

[Vicinity]

Don't waste your money, sell it and buy a car you really want with the money you plan on dumping into this one. It looks to be in decent shape,so you might get some money for it.

Unless the car has sentimental value, I'd do this.

[JohnUlaszek]

If it was mine, I'd go for it. Seat upgrade, Roll bar, six point belts, CCW forged wheels, Baer 6S brakes, LS motor.

C4's are cool.

Not big on the rear wing though.

[pw2006]

My 63 vette project uses alot of the C4 suspension, so in my opinion you are starting with a nice base. If you plan on keeping the car, my list would consist of an LS2/3/7/X, T56, headers/exhaust, new bushings, shocks, brakes. I also agree on the interior, C5 sport seats and maybe a new gauge cluster.

[MyFriendScott]

Wow, you all are harsh on the wing thing. What I don't get is, that vette is probably better at handling than the majority of classic pro-touring cars here and it can't be called "pro touring"? Hey Nick, leave the wing on, drop the car 2", tint the windows, and call it finished. Your vette in reverse would run circles around my '67 camaro.

[bergsvette]

Well, new is a term that has never been used for that car since I have owned her, 10 years. And her name is Jennifer and she is the longest relationship I have ever had. I bought her with my bonus for joining the Army, so she is not leaving me.

I am just looking to increase performance and looks. I found this picture of a guy that put flares on front and back.

47780

Thanks again even if you don't like my car I enjoy hearing the comments.

[BayouSS]

Nick,

I was a 96 C-4 owner up until late last year. It was a nice vehicle and handled like you would not believe but I was not happy with it, I like the 60's and early 70"s muscle cars but I do miss the power it had and the 25mpg it would get with the LT4 engine with 6 speed trans. The C4's in my mind was the last of the real corvettes. Keep what you have, do a few upgrades and enjoy your car, its paid for.
I see that you mentioned you bought your car when you joined the Army, Thanks for your service.

[pw2006]

A pinch of this...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/6yld6u-1.jpg

a sprinkle of that...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/f09lyr-1.jpg

a little of this
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/29glb8y-1.jpg

and some of that
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/s42gyw-1.jpg

...and then drive the wheels off it.

[mikedc]

Drivetrain swaps? Yeah, do it.

Suspension retrofits? I wouldn't bother. There is room for improvement on the C4 platform but it's already good enough that the gains aren't huge. Save that kind of project for a few years later on when guys are trading cheap C7/C8 chassis parts on Craigslist.

[Derek69SS]

I'd prep it for B-stock or BSP and go autocrossing... C4s can be quite competitive yet. :)

[406 Q-ship]

It is an 85 year, the frames are weaker, C4 got much better after 1986. The suspension geometry is not the best of C4s (that belongs to the 1987 and up zero scrub C4s). Cage that thing, loose the wing, put in an LS2 or LS3 with a Tremec TKO600. Is that Vette a 4+3 trans car, if not you will need to change out the rearend center section (autos used a Dana 30 and the Manuals got Dana 44 like the Vipers). I would not sell it, the early C4s are worth nothing on the market today. Awesome handling Corvettes for the dollar.

[srh3trinity]

I have always liked C4's. I think if you put in a proper powerplant, and spent some money on mild suspension and brake upgrades, you would have a car that is much more capable and fun than most of the cars on the board.

[NJSPEEDER]

I would do a warmed up LS?+ T56 like you are considering for sure.

For chassis I would go coil overs at bother ends and lower it as far as is reasonable for where you live. Great thing about C4's is they can stuff a ton of tire, 315's in the back and 285/295's in the front would make for some serious corner carving even on the most compliant suspension.

Not a big fan of spoilers and wings on that body style so that would have to go. Maybe go for some under car aero, there are side exhaust kits for those cars that aren't tacky that would clear room to flat pan the bottom and guide the air through a nice diffuser at the rear.

Not sure what a good solution for hte front would be, definitely gotta get it lower but not sure how well the stock body work lends itself to a splitter. Not a fan of the Calloway front end and not sure what else is out there.

C4's are to Corvettes what 3rd gens are to Camaros, cool cars that have a lot of potential and get overlooked far too often.

Good luck with it!

-Tim

[Ishmael]

All this has been said but - The first thing I would do would be lower it. Next would rims with flat black centers and chrome lips or chrome centers but not both or straight grey. I would rather see a rear center exit exhaust that's nice and tight to the bumper than something that looks like the guy at the local garage hung it - I hate seeing exhaust tips hanging on those cars ( or any for that matter). I also agree that it needs to be tinted. Then C6 brakes (the vette forums must have covered this by now) and the LS swap which I know I've seen on ls1tech. Just get rid of anything that looks like some guy with gold chains around his neck would have on the car and it would be a good start.

[bergsvette]

The car is the 4+3 car so I am good with the rear. I also have 295's on all 4 corners already with BFG KDW's. I would also love to put some custom glass or carbon fiber work on there, like a splitter or something, but I don't know of anyone that does stuff like that. From what I have read I can only lower it about an inch with shaving the bushings on the stabalizer bar.

I wonder how much work it would be to convert it to coilovers? And I get it first order of body work is remove the wing. Hahaha good times.

[pw2006]

On the front leaf spring there is a rubber block in the center that you can shave down about an inch. The C4 suspension with the fiber leafs are actually a pretty good set up. Here are a few notes from Newman Car Creations on why they use the C4 suspension in their chassis builds...


---------------------
Why do we like the Corvette composite mono-leaf springs?

The composite Corvette springs are the future. There is a reason that the brand new ZR1's have composite mono-leaf springs and not coil overs.

Composite springs are lighter and more efficient than steel springs
Composite springs have up to ten times the cycle life of a comparable steel spring
Packaging of the composite springs is very efficient
Factory mounting of the composite springs is designed to last maintenance free for up to 200K miles
Linkage between suspension knuckles and A arms are designed to not put undue stresses on suspension components
Our experience in modifying composite springs and the after-market spring choices continues to grow

-------------------------
Why use C4 Corvette suspension and not C5 or C6?

The fourth-generation Corvette came with a very modern suspension, designed to be used with wide wheels and tires. It is important to note that Corvette made cars with wheels up to 11" wide. This C4 suspension incorporates great geometry that works equally well on the street or at the race track. Highlights of the suspension include extensive use of aluminum, a fully independent front & rear design, composite springs, rack and pinion steering, four-wheel disc brakes and most importantly—all these elements were designed by Corvette to work together! This is not an accumulation of suspension, and braking parts, that just ended up being bolted together because they looked good, or simply made the wheels fit!

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[lnirenberg]

Don't waste your money, sell it and buy a car you really want with the money you plan on dumping into this one. It looks to be in decent shape,so you might get some money for it.
I vote with him. I am a big fan of the C4 as I run a track dedicated 93 with a killer LT4 motor putting out 525hp at the crank. C4s are not the strongest structurally and the high sills are a bit of a pain--I had a 91 ZR1 that was scary to drive with the roof off. An LT motor can be built with more than enough power and fit in the early C4s but even with aftermarket opti-spark distributors do not inspire a lot of confidence and are a major pain in the ass to change. If you follow the Corvette forum an LS swap is not an easy endeavor, all in all too much money to end up with a pro-touring car. For the money, I'd sell the car and buy a C3. If money is tight buy a later soft bumper car. Unlike the C4 the engine goes in from the top and you can fit just about any engine in it and the basic dash has a nice old school feel that is easy to upgrade with aftermarket gauges and the late C3 seats are pretty good support wise. It's your call but a C4 is not an easy car to pro-tour.

[Dragonsnake]

I vote with him. I am a big fan of the C4 as I run a track dedicated 93 with a killer LT4 motor putting out 525hp at the crank. C4s are not the strongest structurally and the high sills are a bit of a pain--I had a 91 ZR1 that was scary to drive with the roof off. An LT motor can be built with more than enough power and fit in the early C4s but even with aftermarket opti-spark distributors do not inspire a lot of confidence and are a major pain in the ass to change. If you follow the Corvette forum an LS swap is not an easy endeavor, all in all too much money to end up with a pro-touring car. For the money, I'd sell the car and buy a C3.

Is the C3 stronger structurally..?.

[lnirenberg]

Is the C3 stronger structurally..?.
There are several aftermarket frames to chose from with C3s. I am not aware of any for the C4 as I doubt there is a big demand. Mostly, C3s are just cooler modified cars--my opinion only. My 93 track car has a roll cage back to the frame and it goes a long way to improving the structure but I have never driven it with the top off.

[Dragonsnake]

I think that moneywise,you cant get more bang for the bucks than in a C4.But of course..you have to like them.I guess 5-10 years from now,theres a big interest for the C4.Till then,we can race them hard and not worry about the value.

[lnirenberg]

I think that moneywise,you cant get more bang for the bucks than in a C4.But of course..you have to like them.I guess 5-10 years from now,theres a big interest for the C4.Till then,we can race them hard and not worry about the value.
I agree that they are a lot of bang for your buck especially with the improved interiors, transmissions and engines of the later C4s. I just don't think they will every be big car for the pro-touring set. The best performance car for the money in my opinion is the ZR1s. Everyone is afraid of the motor unjustly as they are hand built and basically indestructible. For example on the ZR1netregistry.com:
1990 Steel Blue Met Exterior/Black Interior 50,000 miles Patrick Bailey(CA) 831-706-2922
[email protected]
$18,900
DESCRIPTION/OPTIONS= Rarest Color - only 11 made in 1990 and 57 in 1991
Second Owner - Garage Kept, Driven only in Summer
New Goodyear GSC Tires, New Interstate Battery Air Conditioning System has recently been completely replaced Original Bose System recently rebuilt by FactoryCarStereoRepair of Longwood, Fla.
All Stock except:
Flowmaster Exhaust System (extra 25 HP)
Ram Air Intake ( extra 25 HP, visible only at the front license plate, painted to match) Has 1991 stock ZR1 Wheels - Much prettier than the 1990 wheels

That is a lot of car for the money standard with the adjustable shocks and absolutely flies. I can't imagine modifying an 85 to keep up with this car for the asking price.

[WS6]

Ok my two cents considering I designed a few of the parts needed to swap an LSx into the C4. Get any LSx you want. Put a TKO five speed with the lower first gear in the car. You have a 3.07 rear end Dana 44 now. The lower first gear TKO five speed will work well with the 3.07 gear. You do not need a six speed. It will be easier to use the five speed. Get with Keisler or Classic motorsports group. Use their C4 kit and slot the holes in the Cbridge to move it forward enough to meet up to the transmission. This is assuming you use the mounts I designed which move the engine forward a tad. The stock clutch MC will work with the new transmission you'll just need to change the hose from the MC to the slave. You'll need to use C5 accessory brackets.

Suspension can come from Vette Brakes and Products or Van Steele if you want coil overs. The coil overs are easy to install if they use small 2.25 inch diameter springs. A word of caution with coil overs. The front frame really should be reinforced at the shock towers. The shock towers were not design to hold the weight of the car. It's no big deal to ad some gussets.

Brakes, get a kit. If you were an 88+ car you could swap to factory 13inch brakes by just bolting them on. The early style like you have need an adapter plate. VBP, Baer, and others have kits.

Exhaust, spend the money on a Corsa system unless you like drone. Corsa is the only system that does not drone on a C4 and they are very prone to reverb inside the cabin. Headers are available from Melrose Motorsports and their vendors.

Gauges, contact VettAid www.vettaid.com and tell him what you're doing. Actually, you can contact him for all the parts you need or want. He has all the parts I designed and the ones he designed as well as being a vendor for all the other companies I have mentioned.

Brace the crap out of the frame as it is weak.

The mild heads/cam 5.3 I built which had a TKO 5 speed behind it put down 350/350 to the wheels basically. The torque curve was as flat as a TPI but engine and the engine would rev to 6k. Very fun and cheap engine build. Loved driving that combo what little I did.

These cars have a lot of potential if you're realistic about your goals. They will never out do a C5/6 but you can still have a lot of fun with them. I love the late C4s and really want a normal LT4 96 vette one day.

[WS6]

Oh, for a radiator, get a DeWitts and ask them to modify the C4 radiator for an LSx conversion. They do it for free. They have the best radiators for Corvettes, period. I like them so much I had them make me a radiator for my TA. I got lucky in that it was the same dimensions as a C3 radiator. They just had to change the port diameters to meet up to the LT1 hoses.

[bergsvette]

WS6, Thank you! That is all good info. I really appreciate it.