Pikes Peak bottom to top run!!!

[Ash]

Z06killinSBF post on the Pikes peak Freightliner renewed my interest in Hill Climbs. I realized I never saw a bottom to top in car run other than playing Gran Turismo. 1:30:00 is the meat and potatoes...the run. There are several hill climbs still held annually across the country besides Pikes Peak. Which got me thinking. When track days no longer hit the spot...and I'm sure it's coming for some on this board...
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!!!!!I hastily posted this as a bottom to top pikes peak hill climb....which I now know is not due to no dirt section. 0:00 to 1:30 is Pikes Peak footage with the Suzuki Escudo Pikes peak car. Don't know which Climb the 1:30 on is... In any case, crazy fast :) P.s. Those 4x4 guys, absolutely 0 risk aversion in their genes.

[High Plains Mopars]

A new record was set by "Monster" Tajima in his unlimited 4wd 900 hp turbocharged Suzuki, finally eclisping the 10 minute barrier with a 9:51;http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?slug=ap-pikespeakhillclimb One of the stock car drivers spun off the edge and did a few airbornes spins. Driver emerged unscathed; http://uk.autoblog.com/2011/06/28/video-rally-car-drives-over-the-edge-on-pikes-peak/

Pikes Peak is the crown jewel of the hillclimb racing scene, but the Colorado Hillclimb Assoc does have 5 other races on its schedule each year. http://www.chcaracing.com/ However, it is highly unlikely you could show up with a pro-touring or similarly modified street car and compete. I'd imagine other hillclimb associations in the country have similar rules and expectations for competition.

They (CHCA) do have a vintage class they run up The Peak in conjunction with they Rocky Mtn Vintage Racing Assoc. Being a Mopar guy, I follow one driver's participation pretty closely; Jess Neil and his 71 AAR style Cuda. Jess finished second in the RMVR vintage class this year with his '71 Cuda. He cut 30 seconds off his time from 2010, but is still chasing the winning Falcon. They posted a nice daybreak practice shot of his car as the second slide on the home page: http://www.usacracing.com/ppihc Some links I found on you tube of this years run; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te9IcSKis6o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znyT2FRtLi0&feature=related This is pretty amazing because even with this mishap, Jess improved his time over last year.

Another one, but of a 2nd Gen Camaro, that demonstrates why one should stand far off the racing surface http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rwXnTpJtEY&feature=related I fear one of these days some misguided amatuer photog like this is going to get hurt and create a whole new mess of rules about spectating.

[DartorDemon]

I love pikes peak.Too bad those dirty pretenda-enivro nuts the Sierra club ruined the hill climb by forcing the city to pave the entire road.


btw, is anyone else amazed that suzuki builds such a badass hillclimb car, but makes no effort in making a cool street car? I have to imagine they would sell a ton of cars if they came out with a street escudo to compete with the wrx/evo crowd.

[JChilders]

I could be wrong, but the first section of the video looks like the Mt Washington run. I think they are held at the same time each year.

[The Stickman]

Here is a great Pikes Peak video. Maybe the best ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJsHlugRls4

[andrewb70]

All I know is that all those drivers have balls of steel!

Andrew

[protouring70]

absolutely crazy!!!!!!!!!

[Ash]

Yeah Tony, Saw that video the day after the record break...Tajima is a sick driver. Seeing that Cuda truck through pikes Peak is pretty cool, I wonder what the optimal HP/TQ would be on gravel for RWD...what would be too much? With the regular cars in These (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HXvSsoYwio) videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSPpZte5S8g&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_6186)(must see!!) giving a hill climb a go, I think this crowd could show them what's what, and have a blast doing it.

Ehh...the lawsuit for paving came due to the large amounts of Gravel being continually added,which is needed to maintain the roadway, eroding and running off into the lower wetlands. The law suit was filed in 1999 because the City ignored it's own findings and U.S. Forest Service recommendations in 1997 to "hard surface" the rest of pikes peak. The only reason Colorado Springs was against paving he roadway is the Pikes Peak Hill Climb itself. I'm all for preserving the nature of a historic race, but if it's doing real damage...Calling them nuts may be a little harsh, and if the city was violating the Federal Clean Water Act and ignoring recommendations by their own studies...I trust it needed to be paved, and not just because they have a hard on against the event. Look at the bright side, once it's fully paved, we'll have a new world renowned gravel road to spiritedly traverse with our street cars.

I'm completely with you on on Suzuki. I remember being in middle school playing GT-2 and wondering how the baddest car in the game had 0 performance cars for retail. They are truly missing the boat to bring back a psudo-homoligation car. I don't understand it. It's comparable to Chevy dominating a super-bike class, but no bikes on the market. A side note: Ford missed a golden opportunity in failing to bring the Focus RS to us shores in 2002, not AWD, but could have played off the motorsport heritage and been a contender with the WRX and as yet released Evo for years to come. Being the only domestic competition against the WRX/STI, Evo, and VW R32, It would have done well.

Great Video Neil, raw as hell.

[DartorDemon]

Yeah Tony, Saw that video the day after the record break...Tajima is a sick driver. Seeing that Cuda truck through pikes Peak is pretty cool, I wonder what the optimal HP/TQ would be on gravel for RWD...what would be too much? With the regular cars in These (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HXvSsoYwio) videos (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSPpZte5S8g&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_6186)(must see!!) giving a hill climb a go, I think this crowd could show them what's what, and have a blast doing it.

Ehh...the lawsuit for paving came due to the large amounts of Gravel being continually added,which is needed to maintain the roadway, eroding and running off into the lower wetlands. The law suit was filed in 1999 because the City ignored it's own findings and U.S. Forest Service recommendations in 1997 to "hard surface" the rest of pikes peak. The only reason Colorado Springs was against paving he roadway is the Pikes Peak Hill Climb itself. I'm all for preserving the nature of a historic race, but if it's doing real damage...Calling them nuts may be a little harsh, and if the city was violating the Federal Clean Water Act and ignoring recommendations by their own studies...I trust it needed to be paved, and not just because they have a hard on against the event. Look at the bright side, once it's fully paved, we'll have a new world renowned gravel road to spiritedly traverse with our street cars.


I think i'm still justified in calling them nut jobs. They're just sue happy douchebags with an anti-motorsports agenda. Its funny how when i look for the supposed data, i just find news articles stating that this is what the Sierra Club claims.

Sure the paved road allows for faster cars, but thats not fun. IMO the great thing about pikes peak was the pavement to dirt transition. Making it real drivers race no matter how fast your car is.

[Ash]

Sometimes the data is in the news articles. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20050925/ai_n15614354/). "The lawsuit accused the city and Forest Service of violating the U.S. Clean Water Act by putting tons of gravel on the road that cascades down the mountain during storms, burying plants, choking streams, silting reservoirs and killing fish."...."The suit was settled when the city agreed to lay asphalt on the 12 unpaved miles of highway, build concrete culverts, dig catch- basins to divert and control storm water and revegetate eroded slopes."..."That area is a priority because the Colorado Division of Wildlife is protecting the sensitive habitat of the endangered greenback cutthroat trout. "...Glavan said monitoring devices in streams and reservoirs will tell if pollution abatement is successful. But he believes the benefits are evident...."Anecdotally, you can see the sediment traps we've put in a couple of years ago are working," he said. "And we're starting to see some revegetation."

Here's a PDF (http://files.rmfi.org/RMFI_Severy_Creek_Basin_Analysis.pdf).. 2011 Severy Creek Basin Analysis, my eyes started to glaze over. Rocky Mountain Field Institute (http://rmfi.org/?id=53). Can't find a online PDF of the lawsuit.

I know what your saying, It's sad the dirt is going, and I regret I did'nt get to see the last event on gravel. But, I think the lawsuit was justified...and I doubt the City would have settled the suit if the accusations were B.S.

[MrQuick]

anyone know when pikes will be on speed chnl this year??

[DartorDemon]

Sometimes the data is in the news articles. (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20050925/ai_n15614354/). "The lawsuit accused the city and Forest Service of violating the U.S. Clean Water Act by putting tons of gravel on the road that cascades down the mountain during storms, burying plants, choking streams, silting reservoirs and killing fish."...."The suit was settled when the city agreed to lay asphalt on the 12 unpaved miles of highway, build concrete culverts, dig catch- basins to divert and control storm water and revegetate eroded slopes."..."That area is a priority because the Colorado Division of Wildlife is protecting the sensitive habitat of the endangered greenback cutthroat trout. "...Glavan said monitoring devices in streams and reservoirs will tell if pollution abatement is successful. But he believes the benefits are evident...."Anecdotally, you can see the sediment traps we've put in a couple of years ago are working," he said. "And we're starting to see some revegetation."

Here's a PDF (http://files.rmfi.org/RMFI_Severy_Creek_Basin_Analysis.pdf).. 2011 Severy Creek Basin Analysis, my eyes started to glaze over. Rocky Mountain Field Institute (http://rmfi.org/?id=53). Can't find a online PDF of the lawsuit.

I know what your saying, It's sad the dirt is going, and I regret I did'nt get to see the last event on gravel. But, I think the lawsuit was justified...and I doubt the City would have settled the suit if the accusations were B.S.

Lots of suits get settled because the sue happy nuts know that small towns don't have the funds to fight long drawn out battles in court. The legitimacy of the suit can be completely irrelevant. Who do you think has more money to spend for court costs, a small rural town or a massive organization of wastes of space?

Just wait, they'll pave it and a few years later some F1 type cars will come around a corner too hot and crash off the course. Then those dip****s will sue again claiming that the annual event is too much of a environmental hazard and needs to be shut down. Never mind it being an issue they caused in the first place.

[Ash]

I agree with you, frivolous lawsuits do get filed and get settled by the truckload. But this isn't one of them. Colorado Springs didn't just toss a couple bucks at them with an "our bad" tacked on. The settlement included a decade long paving project, massive wetland clean-up, and court costs. They wouldn't have settled on something this big unless they were in the wrong, or had a legal leg to stand on.

The potential accidents a decade after the settlement are a moot point, as far as the validity of the suit goes. Not trying to pick a fight by any means, but just because someone doesn't care for or agree with an organization, doesn't mean that's a valid reason to argue against them in a specific circumstance....unless their Nazi's or Commies, then it's perfectly acceptable.

Agree to Disagree on this one.

[DartorDemon]

I agree with you, frivolous lawsuits do get filed and get settled by the truckload. But this isn't one of them. Colorado Springs didn't just toss a couple bucks at them with an "our bad" tacked on. The settlement included a decade long paving project, massive wetland clean-up, and court costs. They wouldn't have settled on something this big unless they were in the wrong, or had a legal leg to stand on.

The potential accidents a decade after the settlement are a moot point, as far as the validity of the suit goes. Not trying to pick a fight by any means, but just because someone doesn't care for or agree with an organization, doesn't mean that's a valid reason to argue against them in a specific circumstance....unless their Nazi's or Commies, then it's perfectly acceptable.

Agree to Disagree on this one.

IMO there isnt a single time when the *modern* sierra club started a lawsuit for justified reasons. And again, how much money does colorado springs have to allocate to a court defense vs. the sierra club? More than likely its just cheaper to do what they want.

Its like when some parents just give in to spoiled little kids who cry "it is it is it is". It doesnt mean the little ******* is right.

Its not moot at all. If their actions indirectly cause more car accidents and put worse contaminants into the ground, how are they not responsible?

[High Plains Mopars]

anyone know when pikes will be on speed chnl this year??

No idea. I haven't seen anything published yet, but I always enjoy watching it on the tube.

The Sierra Club is something we have to deal with as enthusiats these days. They are no better or worse than any other NIMBY organization, just maybe better finanaced is all. As car guys, we all have to know about and be aware of what like minded groups are trying to do to our hobby. Best way to combat them is to educate the people who write the laws and help them understand that our hobby does not operate in a vacuum and sometimes simple decisions can have further reaching impacts. A good place to start is here: https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml This isnt' to say I support or loathe the Sierra Club. Much like the ACLU, sometimes they do things we agree with, sometimes they don't. You have to take each decisionone at a time and evaluate your particular position on it.

While the completion of paving will change the overall make up of the Pikes Peak Hillclimb, I believe it is going to have a net positive impact. We will see a whole new class of cars in coming years. We will have all the associated sponsor, fan, and revenue generated from that new level of involvement. We will see new records in every division. Yes, it is somewhat saddening to know that a classic is changing, but hey, even the early Indy was run on dirt and it has evolved in to something it was not originally. If dirt hillclimbs are your thing, the CHCA has a half dozen other events that are run on dirt exclusively. There are also other hillclimbs throught the country that will continue on dirt. The Pikes Peak version will have the distinction of being the only one run on tarmac. No doubt that will bring with it a new host of issues and troubles as well as revenue and speed. The organizers will address and deal with those issues as they can and the race will continue.

Something I've always found ironic about the hillclimb is that it tends to garner far greater attention from the international motorsports world than it does in our own country, and this was before the involvement of Audi or any of the rally stuff ever becaem associated with it. Kinda weird that way.

[Ash]

IMO there isnt a single time when the *modern* sierra club started a lawsuit for justified reasons..
You can read this (http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/lawsuits/0341.aspx)violation of international trade agreement, this (http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/lawsuits/0235.aspx)joint suit with New Mexico Ranchers, this (http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/lawsuits/0299.aspx)illegally issued water pollution discharge permit (for Terrapin Creek) to a Alabama gold mine, etc, etc (http://www.sierraclub.org/environmentallaw/lawsuits/resilient-habitats.aspx). and reason they are unjustified? Looks like these companies were sercomventing the law to me, and at the Very least, exploiting loopholes. Which organization brought them to light and took action?


All I can say, is picture yourself living in a community that has had industry foul an environment. I'm not bashing industry, but shortcuts in the name of dollar are heavily documented and by no means isolated.

I live in a community where, at one time, one of the nations top Bass fishing lakes resided. Although legal and acceptable at the time, 20,000 acres of Lake Apopka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Apopka)were drained for farming. "The discharge of water, rich in nutrients from agricultural and other sources, produced conditions that created a chronic algal bloom and resulted in loss of the lake’s recreational value and game fish populations". Okay...that was bad enough, but "In July 1980, Tower Chemical Company (TCC), a local pesticide manufacturer, improperly disposed of significant amounts of DDE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichlorodiphenyldichloroethylene), a known endocrine disruptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endocrine_disruptors), along with other toxic chemicals. They pilled into lake apopka, and made there way into the Aquifer and other interconnected lakes and waterways...This chemical has caused health problems in much of the lake's wildlife population, and has caused infertility and other sexual disorders in several species, including alligators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alligator)." The lake is still fubared. In the scheme of a Country, this lake is insignificant and the nation as a whole is unaffected and could give two Sh!ts what happens here. But in this community, it was a revenue generating tourist destination..and a source of pride. Now it's toxic. It Sounds pretty innocuous when it's called runoff, sediment pools, or backfill.


...Just wait, they'll pave it and a few years later some F1 type cars will come around a corner too hot and crash off the course. Then those dip****s will sue again claiming that the annual event is too much of a environmental hazard and needs to be shut down. Never mind it being an issue they caused in the first place.


Its not moot at all. If their actions indirectly cause more car accidents and put worse contaminants into the ground, how are they not responsible?



"The potential accidents a decade after the settlement are a moot point, as far as the validity of the suit goes"...I was addressing your opinion that the suit was unjustified and baseless, and the primary point that you made highlighted the potential lawsuits against the race, for potential isolated accidents, as a valid example. But...to adress your example of the paving causing more harm than good:
A handful of vehicles could potentially crash at the Hill Climb and leak maybe 80 gallons of fluid a year (I'm being generous here.), each with an isolated area of ground cotamination. That compared to 20 tons of gravel added (http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/11/us/car-racers-fight-for-gravel-on-pikes-peak-road.html?pagewanted=2)yearly to the 19 miles of roadway. 20 tons vs 80 gallons annually.



For nostalgic, historical, and entertainment sake...this sucks. But to add to MRQUICKs thoughts, the race isn't ending. The track is just getting paved.

[trmexrunner]

i love pikes peak and hate to see it get paved. but understand the reasons, and the fact that things change over time. i know a couple diffrent guys who run pikes peak. dave carpenteryan and roy tomkins. roy is building the chassis for my road race mustang, and said he would do it on one condition; race pikes peak. which of course i said yes to. oh and heres a preview video of daves team he made before pikes peak. unfortunatly he blew his motor in the first section of the race.

http://youtu.be/1CNhvnLwg0Q
what i like best is, both these guys are just normal guys building there own stuff, and competing with the big guys. but more importantly having a blast doing it.
heres another of them working on the car at roys shop

http://youtu.be/uAPn3bKjcvI

[DarkBuddha]

For those where hill climb might be a bit much yet but wanna do something in the same sorta vain, consider starting out with rallycross. I just did one this past weekend with the SCCA @ Palm Beach International Raceway and had a ton of fun. It's more like autocross on dirt, but I figure it's like a gateway drug... next step rally sprints and TSD, then stage rally baby! The cool thing is that if whoever is running the rallycross follows the usual guidelines for course setup and conditions, any street driven car can usually brave the event without threat of undue damage... my XR4TI has maybe 4.5" of ground clearance and I didn't bottom out or have any clearance problems of any sort. Assuming your car isn't slammed or you can adjust it up (air ride or coilovers), then give it a go.

[Ash]

It's nice to know the independent teams still have a place, and a fighting chance, against the corporate teams. Little fish in a big pond.

Pretty new to the Rallycross, but it's pretty entertaining, and looks fun as all get-out. Seeing more RWD rides bucking through the courses would be nice. By the way, Kudos on your first event. The videos were great.

[High Plains Mopars]

Two more videos have been put together. Here is an entire run up the Peak from the perspective of a vintage class car.

Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ0_qt3zqF4

Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtLlb59dx4E

[High Plains Mopars]

Well, the city of Colorado Springs annouced that they have compelted pavement to the top of the peak ahead of schedule. So it looks like next year will be the first full run from start to finish done on asphalt.

Expect more records to fall

[Kenny]

I know some guys that do that on ATV's......... Not me brother! A couple of those guys said that engineers and the forestry service had put in some serious time looking at the damage done by uncontrolled water runoff etc and had made their recommendations that went completely ignored by the powers that be until there was a lawsuit. It seems they could have met in the middle or even done it in phases, but that's not the way this country is working lately. In either case, the guys said they love the racing, but something had to be done because the damage was terrible.

I do have to say that after a long break from the forums (running a couple of businesses) it is kind of sad that it is moving the direction of talk radio.

[High Plains Mopars]

Saw a small segment on a local newscast this week that pre-registration for the 2012 event is double the amount received by this time last year. Current pre entries are around 175. Organizers attribute this to the completion of paving operations. Increased participation means visibility of the race is steadily improving from a low point in the mid 90s when participation was at its lowest levels since the early years after the Hillclimb was first organized. Organizers said they are seeing a larger number of these entries from Europe and Asia comapred to years past. An upside to this level of exposure is that if registrations continue to come in, there is still another month of pre-registration activity, it may necessitate changing the event to a two day format with a full day of qualifying followed by a day of racing. Local economic analysts say the Hillclimb has typically injected 6-8 million dollars yearly in to the local economy and expect with this new surge of interest, the economic impact could exceed 10 million.

So it looks like paving the Peak wasn't such a bad idea afterall.

[Ash]

That's great to hear. Time-Attack interest and coverage has been on the steady rise. Wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a Premiere U.S. event before too long. Hopefully speed will wise up and give this prime time coverage.

[High Plains Mopars]

Just a quick update, due to the Waldo Canyon Fire and overall dry conditions, race organizers have decided to reschedule the Pike Peak Hillclimb for August 12th. This years event list has 211 entries from 15 different nations around the globe as well as 25 different states within the US borders. Most drivers have stated they will try to adjust their schedules to the new date and many racers have expressed interest in setting up and contributing to a fund to help people in the Pikes Peak region that have been impacted by the fire.

The Waldo canyon fire has become one of the states most devastating fire with nearly 350 homes burned within a 24 hour period as the fire broke over the ridge of the Rampart Range and fell upon north-western Colorado Springs. 100% containment of the fire has been achieved and a cold front bringing regular afternoon rains has fire crews optimistic it will be out soon.

[DartorDemon]

Saw a small segment on a local newscast this week that pre-registration for the 2012 event is double the amount received by this time last year. Current pre entries are around 175. Organizers attribute this to the completion of paving operations. Increased participation means visibility of the race is steadily improving from a low point in the mid 90s when participation was at its lowest levels since the early years after the Hillclimb was first organized. Organizers said they are seeing a larger number of these entries from Europe and Asia comapred to years past. An upside to this level of exposure is that if registrations continue to come in, there is still another month of pre-registration activity, it may necessitate changing the event to a two day format with a full day of qualifying followed by a day of racing. Local economic analysts say the Hillclimb has typically injected 6-8 million dollars yearly in to the local economy and expect with this new surge of interest, the economic impact could exceed 10 million.

So it looks like paving the Peak wasn't such a bad idea afterall.

Honestly, i still think it sucks. The coolest aspect of the pikes peak hillclimb was the asphalt to dirt transition.

As for records being broke, you'd hope they'd make a distinguished between the real course, and the now ruined course.

[Ash]

Very sad at the loss of Property to the community, but the Aid fund is a top notch gesture by the race teams. Especially since pricey last minute logistic changes are gonna be incurred.

[shortrack]

Wow.....all pavement, which means increased speeds......and practically no guard rails.

[High Plains Mopars]

I've seen a number of local bumper stickers that said "If I wanted to pave the Peak, would the Sierra Club have let me?" Yes, it has changed the race and most things associated with it but, I would hardly call it ruined rather than just changed. Would any of us contend that modern muscle cars have ruined the genre or simply evolved it? After all, we are all on here because we want to bring modern performance to our classic cars. No doubt notations in the record books will delineate records for full dirt, partial paving, and complete paving.

I'm excited to see how fast things will be and how the changes are manifested in the new generation of cars going forward.

[AintQik]

I've driven it..... although not that fast :)

[High Plains Mopars]

Rumor has it Hot Rod Magazine will be bringing out crews for filming this year.

They also have a new blog posted on it: http://blogs.hotrod.com/paradise-paved-31329.html

[rustomatic]

There are some other (paved) hillclimbs in northern CA and Nevada (along with other parts of the U.S.). It's a traditional form of racing in England--let's not only give the great P.P. all the credit for the format... I'll take watching a hillclimb over participating in an autocross any day...

And yes, there's some nice footage of Ford Falcons doing the hillclimbs on YouTube...

[High Plains Mopars]

Another year in the books and as expected, records fell multiple times in many classes. Event was red flagged 6 times for various reasons to include the usual crashes, some unruly fans, and weather. Despite the records that fell, there is still a lot of dialing in to be done for the pavement.

Footage of a few things below.

Jeremy Foley leaving the road in Devil's Playground, at the same spot Bobby Regestar crashed last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEUrEPPABbY

One of the open class cars leaving the road:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpQtPhRDDs4

Paul Dallenbach on test day with a 1400 horse small block:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0pTT1VmOQ4