Bad day at a car show

[CHILI442]

Anyone care to discuss the safety aspect of our old cars? Look at how the Pontiac caved in and the Lexus is hardly hurt. I'm building a '66 A-body right now. I already planned to put a cage in it, but now I'm certain. I do worry about a head injury with a cage, but I believe if the cage is constructed properly and 4 or 5 point harnesses are used it shouldn't be an issue.

https://picasaweb.google.com/ankurvakil/Jun152011?authkey=Gv1sRgCOqk0dDYiJ7npwE&feat=directlink#


Sorry if this is a repeat.

[absintheisfun]

I noticed when setting up my doors how flimsy they were. Modern cars have bars running through them for side impact safety.

But, another exception that this picture shows is that the Lexus was booking it and got air from a curb and launched into the side of that Pontiac between the structural rigidity points (roof and floor). She had to be moving pretty damn quick to move a parked car 8 feet sideways and another one next to another couple!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/HPIM5292JPG-1.jpg

And while it may not look that bad, the Lexus is pretty toasted too. Modern cars are built to crumple, and if you look closely the fenders on this lexus are pushed back
Look at this pic:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/HPIM5294JPG-1.jpg

and then look at the same fender once the door is open. They had to bend in the fender to open the door:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/06/HPIM5312JPG-1.jpg

[rockytopper]

Thats why you should be driving a post coupe. Lighter and stronger than a hard top.:)

[damannhw]

Toyota product...........Probably had runaway throttle.

Shame that nice American cars got destroyed/damaged :(

[Randy67]

If the Lexus had hit the rocker, it probably wouldn't have gone quite as far in. The early cars unfortunately don't have side impact beams which would have helped some.
I have a 12-point cage in my Camaro for autocross, but there is no way it would be safe to drive on the street without a helmet, halo bar is just too close to my head. I would have had a similar problem in my 67 El Camino I had as well. The main hoop isn't as much an issue, an 8-point would be a better choice for street use.

[oestek]

This is awful.. that was a nice Pontiac. Note the complete lack of giant sheets of body filler crumbling off the car. That sucks. Hope nobody was hurt.

[Off Duty]

Everyone's made the points.
Anyone know what happened?

[silver69camaro]

If the Lexus had hit the rocker, it probably wouldn't have gone quite as far in. The early cars unfortunately don't have side impact beams which would have helped some.
I have a 12-point cage in my Camaro for autocross, but there is no way it would be safe to drive on the street without a helmet, halo bar is just too close to my head. I would have had a similar problem in my 67 El Camino I had as well. The main hoop isn't as much an issue, an 8-point would be a better choice for street use.


I couldn't agree more with this post. Also note that some newer cars have two locking mechanisms instead of one, which stiffens the structure when the door is closed.

Cages are real risky without a helmet, I wouldn't do it.

[fbody_mike]

I have been wondering about the where and when myself. The photos are tagged as May 31st, ~9 AM. That was a Tuesday, kind of a weird day for a car show or cruise. Definetly is in California, but ????? The deptuties in the picture look like LA County's.

[moreHP]

I think if that was my GTO, the toyota driver would have "been hurt" in the crash!

[MarkM66]

It's just a Le Mans :) .

But seriously, if no one was hurt, that's what matters. Could of been bad...

[65convertSSl79]

This would have been a totally different outcome it if both cars were flat on the ground(how crashes are suppsed to happen). The A-body C frame would have absorbed quite a bit of the force(not all still would have bent the frame). Its hard to stop an Asian lady in a flying 4500lb car coming in your window! I don't care if its a modern car with door beams. Kamikaze lexus! paint a raising sun on her door. Every complains on how heavy modern cars are, engineers now have to design for situations like this.

[John Wright]

^^^ Agreed. I would think that if the car had of hit in the side while in the same plane to each other, the full frame of the Pontiac would have helped to keep the Lexus off of the passenger's seat. That Lexus appeared to have hit the Pontiac above any real structural components.

[rustomatic]

Motorcycles "are risky without a helmet." Nevertheless, roll bars have been stock equipment on many cars over the decades, whereas helmets are not likely to come without extra dollars. Roll bars, much like one's skull, may wear padding...

[Tig]

Thats terrible.

What happened?????????????

[Ripped]

Does that Pontiac, have the same X-frame, as my old '62 Impala? If so, there is not much there. Mine was toasted by a toyota at low speed. No door replacements, so it was hammered and bondoed :(

[Jim Nilsen]

From all of the accidents I remeber seeing in the 60's, the Lemans held up rather well. The cars used to go much deeper in than that in side collisions. the crush zones in the Lexus seemed to be much more forgiving than a 57 Chevy used to be.

I always wondered why they didn't put lights on the side of cars so they didn't get hit while sitting crossing an intersection. Some cars were totally invisible at dusk from the side. It saved a lot of accidents when sidemarkers came out, I have to remember when driving my 67 to not go out in the middle and sit because of it.

We could debate all day about having cages in a car on the street but I feel a lot better with my sidebar to keep the door from coming in during a crash like that and having a car parked on me vs hitting my head on the top sidebar bar or if it wasn't there the roof, either way you will get hurt if you are strapped in , it's just 3 inches difference from the roof bar to the roof .

I feel for the Lemans owner, that is just a stupid accident no matter what!

[chaz75]

A lemans is pontiac version of the chevelle, it has a perimeter frame.

[Steve1968LS2]

I would also say the front of any car is stronger than the side of any car.. I imagine if this was reversed the Lexus would have fair worse.. BUT.. modern cars do have a lot of safety built in that didn't exist way back when.

[socalfandabodys]

Been to that car show many times. It is right off of the 605 freeway in Cerritos/Norwalk area. Right by Cerritos College in the home depot parking lot. The drivers around here are terrible compared to the east coast.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

good thing they didnt post up "the stereotype" photo..

[mc84_zz4]

Damn that sucks! I noticed the air bag did not deploy on the Lexus, so some does not make sense..
The LeMans was definitely moved a good distance, usually air bags deploy above 25 mph, so the
Lexus must have had some serious issues (along with being airborne, of course).
Glad no pedestrians were involved, that's crazy.

[Off Duty]

Damn that sucks! I noticed the air bag did not deploy on the Lexus, so some does not make sense..
The LeMans was definitely moved a good distance, usually air bags deploy above 25 mph, so the
Lexus must have had some serious issues (along with being airborne, of course).
Glad no pedestrians were involved, that's crazy.

Depends on the system.

If the triggering mechanism isn't affected, they won't deploy.
I worked a police crash in S. Fla. many years ago where the area from the grill up, and down the passenger side of the ford was destroyed....and no deployment.

[Randy67]

I always wondered why they didn't put lights on the side of cars so they didn't get hit while sitting crossing an intersection. Some cars were totally invisible at dusk from the side. It saved a lot of accidents when sidemarkers came out, I have to remember when driving my 67 to not go out in the middle and sit because of it.

The government did mandate side marker lights in 1968, but none of the earlier cars were required to have them.

[Tony_SS]

ouch

[go-fish]

good thing they didnt post up "the stereotype" photo..

I made a joke about "the stereotype" not being able to drive good and it got yanked. C'mon, the "stereotype" even admits they can't drive! I know that "stereotype" well, seeing as how I drive in So. CA.
Apparently a mod has a member of the "stereotype" as a g-friend or wife.

[406 Q-ship]

Another case of standard crappy Cali drivers, how the hell could a car get that far away from a driver that they could still have enough energy to get the Lexus over that hedge AIRBORNE! Why do I believe the driver was on the cell phone, eatting, check her make up, adjusting the radio, and picking her nose all at the sametime. Thank God there wasn't some kid there checking out the Pontiac or between the Pontiac and the Ford.

[bobbaganoosh]

I made a joke about "the stereotype" not being able to drive good and it got yanked. C'mon, the "stereotype" even admits they can't drive! I know that "stereotype" well, seeing as how I drive in So. CA.
Apparently a mod has a member of the "stereotype" as a g-friend or wife.

My wife is a "stereotype".


...and it fits her well.

The same thing happened around here at a local car show a couple of years ago. A hispanic woman plowed an f150 right into the middle of the show, and messed up quite a few cars. No license, no insurance, no habla.

[go-fish]

No license, no insurance, no habla.

Ahhh! That happens a lot down here. We're about 15 miles from Mexico. There's a lot of Mexico plates running around here and you just learn to leave a little cushion for maneuvering.

I saw two "stereotypes", in two separate cars get into a wreck with each other on I-5 in Orange County. Little traffic and a clear day, they just ran in to each other. One left the roadway and the other spun around facing the wrong way.

[DarkBuddha]

First, that's a tragedy... poor Pontiac.

Second, for all those that keep saying "oh, if it had been hit on the rocker" or "oh, if it had been hit in front" or whatever, the problem is we don't get much control over where someone is going to accidentally hit our car.

Third, I've stated my position that I think it might be possible to build a functional, low intrusion type of "cage" to help survive this kind of accident (or similar track incident) while minimizing head related injury. I'm not suggesting some kind of sanctioned cage (NHRA, SCCA, FIA, whoever), but something that would help and still maintain relatively reasonable ingress/egress and lessened risk of head injury. The Tiger cage road race style door bars look pretty good, and I wonder if the main hoop could be set a touch further back. It wouldn't be ideal, but it'd have to be better than nothing, right?

[DarkBuddha]

I noticed the air bag did not deploy on the Lexus, so some does not make sense.
That same thing made me wonder if the Pontiac sheet metal just didn't put up enough resistance to trigger the airbag, which is even worse commentary on the strength of our old American iron.

[Ishmael]

First, that's a tragedy... poor Pontiac.

Second, for all those that keep saying "oh, if it had been hit on the rocker" or "oh, if it had been hit in front" or whatever, the problem is we don't get much control over where someone is going to accidentally hit our car.

Third, I've stated my position that I think it might be possible to build a functional, low intrusion type of "cage" to help survive this kind of accident (or similar track incident) while minimizing head related injury. I'm not suggesting some kind of sanctioned cage (NHRA, SCCA, FIA, whoever), but something that would help and still maintain relatively reasonable ingress/egress and lessened risk of head injury. The Tiger cage road race style door bars look pretty good, and I wonder if the main hoop could be set a touch further back. It wouldn't be ideal, but it'd have to be better than nothing, right?

I've been thinking about this alot as I have a convertible.

[Tony_SS]

I made a joke about "the stereotype" not being able to drive good and it got yanked. C'mon, the "stereotype" even admits they can't drive! I know that "stereotype" well, seeing as how I drive in So. CA.
Apparently a mod has a member of the "stereotype" as a g-friend or wife.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[twosaturns]

That same thing made me wonder if the Pontiac sheet metal just didn't put up enough resistance to trigger the airbag, which is even worse commentary on the strength of our old American iron.
'old American Iron' wasn't all that strong; they didn't know much about structural integrity. that lexus probably outweighs the lemans by 1500lbs.
if anyone forgot this one, check out what happened when they crashed a '09 chevy into a '59 chevy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKWpIBZJgw
old cars are not safe in a crash, plain and simple.

[elitecustombody]

'old American Iron' wasn't all that strong; they didn't know much about structural integrity. that lexus probably outweighs the lemans by 1500lbs.
if anyone forgot this one, check out what happened when they crashed a '09 chevy into a '59 chevy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdKWpIBZJgw
old cars are not safe in a crash, plain and simple.

I agree, old cars might look tough,but most of them are death traps. Most late model cars,domestic or imported and regardless of country of origin are made with HHS (High Strength Steel).Owning a shop since 01, I have observed major improvement in structural materials especially on Honda and Toyota. I can see a 06-up Honda Civic or 06-up Scion,Camry drive halfway into a 1st gen F body in head-on collision,

[Procharmo]

I'm not overtly PC but this thread took a wrong turn. Even worse than if the offending post was left in! I thought you meant one thing when you said "stereotype" then another. I feel really sorry for all involved in the accident who were emotionally, physically and financially affected. But not being from the US I just didn't get the "stereotype" thing straight away.

I just hope there are no budding young "stereotypes" feeling put off from buying Protouring products or attending Protouring events due to some of the comments I've seen. If there is lets hope she follows in the foot steps of Mary...!!!!!!

[Declawed69]

I just hope there are no budding young "stereotypes" feeling put off from buying Protouring products or attending Protouring events due to some of the comments I've seen.

I'm one of those stereotypes.... sort of... only male and only half :razz:
But I digress the non stereotype crashed the bradley at Irwin a year ago not me :hand:

[go-fish]

I'm not overtly PC but this thread took a wrong turn. Even worse than if the offending post was left in! I thought you meant one thing when you said "stereotype" then another. I feel really sorry for all involved in the accident who were emotionally, physically and financially affected. But not being from the US I just didn't get the "stereotype" thing straight away.

I just hope there are no budding young "stereotypes" feeling put off from buying Protouring products or attending Protouring events due to some of the comments I've seen. If there is lets hope she follows in the foot steps of Mary...!!!!!!

Meh. Everybody knows Asian women can drive about as good as white men can jump!

[parsonsj]

Everybody knows Asian women can drive about as good as white men can jump!Congrats. That's a thread locker right there.