GM releases LS7 crate engine pricing!

[Nine Ball]

Scoggin-Dickey just posted on LS1TECH.com about the new pricing for the 427ci LS7 crate engine.

$12,995 complete from intake to oil pan, including exhaust manifolds.

I'm trying to verify if that includes the engine harness and PCM....

A simple cam swap and some headers and this engine should have no problem making 550-575 rwhp! Head flow numbers are huge.

Tony

[rocketman]

a buddy of mine has a z06 on order,i have read to where the z06's are rwph 500 stock.i had a 03 z06 that stock back tired 380. not bad for 405 hp engine

[yody]

oooh, steve, hope you reading this

[MuscleRodz]

Is it still a dry sump as a crate motor?

Mike

[Blown353]

I find $13K hard to believe, but if it is, wow!

My hunch is that's without ECU/wiring/accessories...

[parsonsj]

Is this a GM offering? Or a Scoggin-Dickey offering?

Dry sump question is good. Here's another: does it come with the titanium rods?

jp

[Steve1968LS2]

oooh, steve, hope you reading this

Yep.. I got an email from GMPP yesterday regarding this info..

I guessed $12k with a max of $15k so do I win a prize??? ;)

[Steve1968LS2]

And yes.. no harness or ECU

The ECU will a problem since the LS7 is no longer table based and is now math based. This will make programming HARD and it will take a bit for the aftermarket to catch up with a software package.

[Steve1968LS2]

Yes, it comes with Titanium rods and the dry sump pan.. but not the tank (seperate item)..

It is the EXACT same motor as in the Z06.. I will get tank pricing and post it up.

[Steve1968LS2]

I just talked to GM.. Actuall list price is $15k but SDPC is always a great deal..

After the ZO6 comes out you will also be able to buy certain parts of the motor like the block and such.

No ECM or wiring is included.. nor is the tank. Fittings will be sold that will enable you to make your own tank for your application. GMPP will not sell the ECM, Tank or wiring but you can get they through your GM parts department.

The LS7 will carry the standard 12 month warranty and it is the EXACT same motor as in the new Z06.

That is all.. I have a story to write!! :)

[parsonsj]

Damn; good info. I'm deep into a 427 LS2 build, but that dry sump setup might be a slick addition. Steve, can you get a "dry sump retro-fit kit" :) price?

jp

[Mean 69]

Well now, 700 HP alloy rat motor with FI, or one of these? Hmm...

[Steve1968LS2]

Damn; good info. I'm deep into a 427 LS2 build, but that dry sump setup might be a slick addition. Steve, can you get a "dry sump retro-fit kit" :) price?

jp

Wont work.. the LS7 was designed around the dry sump oil system.. SO.. you cant add the dry sump system to a LS2 and you can't add the LS2 wet sump system to the LS7.. the LS7 uses a dual impeller pump that scavenges and pumps at different rates.

You can see the pump in the LS7 story on www.popularhotrodding.com .. there is a pic of the pan there as well.

[parsonsj]

Double damn.

Guess I'm lubing with a wet sump! Thanks for the info.

jp

[CraigMorrison]

Very Cool! They have released pricing, but when will they release the crate motors? I wonder if GM released the pricing to beat out an aftermarket engine company from releasing their LS motor 1st :ssst:

[Steve1968LS2]

Very Cool! They have released pricing, but when will they release the crate motors? I wonder if GM released the pricing to beat out an aftermarket engine company from releasing their LS motor 1st :ssst:

Funny thing.. I called GM today when I read this and they haven't even signed the press release yet.. they had a small meeting with thier top 25 dealers and distributors on Friday to give them their dealer price and MSRP.

She was surprised that SDPC got the info out this fast.. I won't even have an official press release until tomorrow.. gotta love the interweb ;)

So Craig.. what do YOU know??? hmmmmmm

[CraigMorrison]

So Craig.. what do YOU know??? hmmmmmm

I've heard a few things...........

[Steve1968LS2]

I've heard a few things...........

I wont tell... trust me..

[CraigMorrison]

I wont tell... trust me..

Yea, 'cuz magazine guys never say anything........:lmao:



So, are you going to Columbus?

[Steve1968LS2]

Yea, 'cuz magazine guys never say anything........:lmao:



So, are you going to Columbus?

Who? me?? I know nothing.. nothing


Hell yea.. FINALLY booked my hotel reservations.. gonna be fun and I get to pick the top ten winners..

[trapin]

12K? And for what? A dry sump system?

Big deal.

The LS2 is the better deal. Change the cam and heads and throw on some headers and your right where the LS7 is powerwise. And you'll be about $4000 richer.

[CraigMorrison]

Who? me?? I know nothing.. nothing


Hell yea.. FINALLY booked my hotel reservations.. gonna be fun and I get to pick the top ten winners..

LET THE BROWN-NOSING BEGIN!



you've got mail!

[4OfaKind]

Steve or Craig,

The Northstar V8 SC is being built in the same plant as the LS7. I have heard news it puts out 469hp & 430lb/ft officially now. Have you heard anything about wether it will be a crate motor or its price when they released info on the LS7?

Thanks

[Steve1968LS2]

12K? And for what? A dry sump system?

Big deal.

The LS2 is the better deal. Change the cam and heads and throw on some headers and your right where the LS7 is powerwise. And you'll be about $4000 richer.

:lol:

Titanium Rods? (price those puppies out)
Massive CNC ported heads with titanium valves
Revs to 7000 rpm
Dry sump system where the scavenging oil pump is INTEGRAL to the motor thus making packagine much easier

Using you logic then you should not buy a Z06.. after all you could buy a regular C6 then dump 15k in it and have a car faster than the Z06.. but will it have a warranty? will it rev to 7000k reliably?

Making a LS2 put out 500hp does not make it a LS7..

To understand this price you need to call up MTI and ask them how much to build a custom 427 lsx motor.. have them put in Ti rods and rig up a dry sump system.. let me know what they quote for a simular motor and if they have a 12 month waranty :)

[Steve1968LS2]

Steve or Craig,

The Northstar V8 SC is being built in the same plant as the LS7. I have heard news it puts out 469hp & 430lb/ft officially now. Have you heard anything about wether it will be a crate motor or its price when they released info on the LS7?

Thanks

Yes, it is made at Wixom (saw pallets of blowers.. :drool: )

I heard it will be a crate motor but no info.. I will ask next time I talk with them.

the price will be expensive I bet..

[trapin]

Titanium Rods? (price those puppies out)
Massive CNC ported heads with titanium valves
Revs to 7000 rpm
Dry sump system where the scavenging oil pump is INTEGRAL to the motor thus making packagine much easier

Using you logic then you should not buy a Z06.. after all you could buy a regular C6 then dump 15k in it and have a car faster than the Z06.. but will it have a warranty? will it rev to 7000k reliably?

Making a LS2 put out 500hp does not make it a LS7..

To understand this price you need to call up MTI and ask them how much to build a custom 427 lsx motor.. have them put in Ti rods and rig up a dry sump system.. let me know what they quote for a simular motor and if they have a 12 month waranty.

I'm not saying a 500hp LS2 makes it an LS7, I'm saying you can get to those numbers without all the fancy bells and whistles. I only mentioned the dry sump because that's whats catching everyones attention. So a 500hp LS2 is not a 500hp LS7...Is that such a bad thing? Are all those little knick knacks really necessary? Ask Andrew Borodin and Jeff Schwartz if they needed any of that stuff to pimp slap their competition at RSE. And I'm pretty sure Stielow had none of that stuff when he was wiping his mouth with the competiton at Silver State either. I'm not trying to rip on the LS7....it's an amazing motor, I don't doubt that. I'd give my left nut too own one. And I guess if you want bragging rights and you've got the money to burn......by all means, it's a free country.

To me, it just seems like wasted money. After all....the horsepower and the torque is what your after anyway...who cares if you get there without all the sexy parts. As long as the engine runs strong and won't blow up. Wheel to Wheel warranties their custon LSX motors if your worried about it being warrantied.

Not tryin to step on anyones toes, just my $.02. :usa:

[yody]

The LS7 is a stroked 427, the torque will be greater and flatter, and i guarantee you they have more power than advertised, $12K is a pretty good deal

[trapin]

I guess I just don't have the experience with the LSX motors to form a viable opinion. I'm too conditioned on the old iron. I'm looking at it from that perspective. Perhaps I shouldn't. :dunno:

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Any pricing on the heads or any word on when they'll be released? I wonder if they'll be anywhere near the price of LS6 heads? $1200 for a set of LS7 heads-- that would be nice. They'll probably be more in the realm of $2500, though. :/

[Nine Ball]

LS7 heads will be more expensive because they come CNC ported from the factory. These heads should flow much more than any current badass ported LS1/6 head. Several insiders are suspecting the LS7 should hit 500 rwhp with just a header swap. Thats approx 600 crank hp!

Imagine a cam swap, a good hand porting clean up/polishing, and exhaust. Should see 575-600 rwhp from that LS7.

Tony

[Ralph LoGrasso]

LS7 heads will be more expensive because they come CNC ported from the factory. These heads should flow much more than any current badass ported LS1/6 head. Several insiders are suspecting the LS7 should hit 500 rwhp with just a header swap. Thats approx 600 crank hp!

Imagine a cam swap, a good hand porting clean up/polishing, and exhaust. Should see 575-600 rwhp from that LS7.

Tony


I was thinking the CNC porting would up the price significantly. At $2000, they wold probably sell more then they could make-- I can dream, can't I :) 500 to the wheels with just headers? Oof. I think 600rwhp with the above mods will be no problem for these motors, like you said. I can't help but imagining the heads and intake on my LS1, though :D. Actually, they might flow too much for the 346ci, huh?

Damn, I remember when a 12 second car was a fast street car, now a days 11 second cars aren't even considered "fast" anymore. Pulley and exhaust on the new cobra should be 10s, cam/ headers on the new Z will definitely be 10s....

[Nine Ball]

no such thing as too much head flow. Just cam it properly and go for more rpm :D

[Ralph LoGrasso]

:D 6800-7000rpm redline is where I'd like to be anyways. The urge to mod the SS is just too great...must....hold...back...

[Fuelie Fan]

The LS7 is a stroked 427, the torque will be greater and flatter, and i guarantee you they have more power than advertised, $12K is a pretty good deal

The manufacturers don't under-rate their engines, it's the magazines that over-rate them once they get their hands on them. GM follows a very strict SAE procedure for testing their engines. Why in the world would they underrate them? You think you'll get an insurance break becuase they rate your brand new $80k sports car at 505hp instead of 525 or 550? Don't you think that if the corvette had even a 10hp advantage over the Viper that GM would hyping the heck out of it?

[Ralph LoGrasso]

The manufacturers don't under-rate their engines, it's the magazines that over-rate them once they get their hands on them. GM follows a very strict SAE procedure for testing their engines. Why in the world would they underrate them? You think you'll get an insurance break becuase they rate your brand new $80k sports car at 505hp instead of 525 or 550? Don't you think that if the corvette had even a 10hp advantage over the Viper that GM would hyping the heck out of it?

I'm not sure about under-rating their engines. 4th gen F-bodies are under-rated from the factory. Most '01/'02 M6 F-bodies will dyno around 310-315rwhp(bone stock), and they're rated at 325hp. 15-16% drivetrain loss is the standard for these cars. I'm not saying the Z06 is under-rated, but there have been some recent cars under-rated from GM.

[yody]

well i guess the drivetrains are super efficient then, because i have seen automatic LS1 F bodies with a few bolt ons put out 320horse at the rear wheels, when they are rated stock at 305 at the flywheel?? bolts on would be exhaust, chip, and airlid. Don't know how to explain that?? also this has been confirmed a 100 million times that the LS1's are definetly putting out more than 305 horse

[Ralph LoGrasso]

well i guess the drivetrains are super efficient then, because i have seen automatic LS1 F bodies with a few bolt ons put out 320horse at the rear wheels, when they are rated stock at 305 at the flywheel?? bolts on would be exhaust, chip, and airlid. Don't know how to explain that?? also this has been confirmed a 100 million times that the LS1's are definetly putting out more than 305 horse

'01/02s are rated at 325hp, in '01 the cars all got the LS6 intake. The LS1 F-bodies are all under-rated, though. Looks like we posted at the same time, check my post above yours(same info).

[yody]

agreed, but what i really meant to say, but said incorrectly(even though i think they are underated) is that they aren't at their full potential, a few bolt ons and 600 horse easy

[Van B]

I'm not saying a 500hp LS2 makes it an LS7, I'm saying you can get to those numbers without all the fancy bells and whistles. I only mentioned the dry sump because that's whats catching everyones attention. So a 500hp LS2 is not a 500hp LS7...Is that such a bad thing? Are all those little knick knacks really necessary? Ask Andrew Borodin and Jeff Schwartz if they needed any of that stuff to pimp slap their competition at RSE. And I'm pretty sure Stielow had none of that stuff when he was wiping his mouth with the competiton at Silver State either. I'm not trying to rip on the LS7....it's an amazing motor, I don't doubt that. I'd give my left nut too own one. And I guess if you want bragging rights and you've got the money to burn......by all means, it's a free country.

To me, it just seems like wasted money. After all....the horsepower and the torque is what your after anyway...who cares if you get there without all the sexy parts. As long as the engine runs strong and won't blow up. Wheel to Wheel warranties their custon LSX motors if your worried about it being warrantied.

Not tryin to step on anyones toes, just my $.02. :usa:

I'm no expert, but I didn't know Stielow ever ran the Silver State.

[Charley Lillard]

GMMG has been doing C5R 427's in a bunch of ZL1's etc. They have ported the crap out of the heads, bumped compression, huge cams and they make about 520 rwhp or about 600 at the flywheel. I suspect the LS7 will have a tamer cam. I'm guessing the LS7 will make a very dependable 550 hp and more if you are willing to sacrifice bulletproof. Awsome engine. Might not be needed for street use but that dry sump sure takes things to another comfort level when cornering at a track event.

[Charley Lillard]

Stielow was running One Laps...Kinda like Power Tour only much farther and much faster.

[Steve1968LS2]

Any pricing on the heads or any word on when they'll be released? I wonder if they'll be anywhere near the price of LS6 heads? $1200 for a set of LS7 heads-- that would be nice. They'll probably be more in the realm of $2500, though. :/

LS7 heads will NOT fit a LS1, LS6 or LS2 motor.. :(

Neither will the intake.. well it might "fit" but it would be pointless..

[Steve1968LS2]

The manufacturers don't under-rate their engines, it's the magazines that over-rate them once they get their hands on them. GM follows a very strict SAE procedure for testing their engines. Why in the world would they underrate them? You think you'll get an insurance break becuase they rate your brand new $80k sports car at 505hp instead of 525 or 550? Don't you think that if the corvette had even a 10hp advantage over the Viper that GM would hyping the heck out of it?

Uh.. you need to spend some time on LS1tech..

My 2000 SS in bone stock form was factory rated at 310hp.. it dynoed with 2000 miles on the odometer at 302rwhp.. add in a 12% drivetrain loss and what do you get?

And under-rated motor maybe?

f-bods were underated to make the much more expensive vette seem faster even though it had essentially the same motor. Also, dyno testing showed even the Z06 (C5) was somewhat "underrated"..

Time will tell when they hit the dynos :)

[Fuelie Fan]

What kind of dyno?

[Steve1968LS2]

What kind of dyno?dynojet..

and this has been shown on many many dynos.. of various types..

In fact.. a 305-310 fbody owner feels pretty sad if his car dynos UNDER 300 rwhp..

As Ripley says.. "believe it or not"

[trapin]

Stielow was running One Laps...Kinda like Power Tour only much farther and much faster.
Oops...I meant One Lap. Got the 2 confused. :doh:

[Fuelie Fan]

The only thing that's been proven to me is that dynojets are notoriously optimistic in their results. There was an article a few years back where a Ford mustang that was rated at 260hp, made 250 on dynojet, and around 200 on a Mustang Dyno (which is very similar to the results we had on a dyno day at our shop for a local ford club BTW). Based on that drop, I would expect stock LS1's to come in at around 250-270 on our dyno. If anyone has a bone stock LS1 on the central coast of CA that would like to prove me wrong, there's an open invitation. Otherwise, having never personally tested an LS1 on our dyno to this point, i can't really say too much more, just that EVERYONE (chevys, fords, VW GTI's, etc etc etc) who comes to our dyno expects dynojet numbers, and most leave pissed off when they don't get them. And, I still don't see ANY logical reason why GM would underrate their top-of-the-line sports car in the midst of a horsepower war.

[dgumoe]

i think it was hot rod that tested one of those 572 big blocks and they made a good bit more power than GMPP had it rated, they asked gm and their reply was that they do in fact underrate their hp and torque numbers because of the many various dyno's that the consumer has access to. this allows the consumer to actually duplicate gm's rating and in most cases exceed it regardless of the dyno used. maybe they do it in the cars too. ???

[Steve1968LS2]

The only thing that's been proven to me is that dynojets are notoriously optimistic in their results. There was an article a few years back where a Ford mustang that was rated at 260hp, made 250 on dynojet, and around 200 on a Mustang Dyno (which is very similar to the results we had on a dyno day at our shop for a local ford club BTW). Based on that drop, I would expect stock LS1's to come in at around 250-270 on our dyno. If anyone has a bone stock LS1 on the central coast of CA that would like to prove me wrong, there's an open invitation. Otherwise, having never personally tested an LS1 on our dyno to this point, i can't really say too much more, just that EVERYONE (chevys, fords, VW GTI's, etc etc etc) who comes to our dyno expects dynojet numbers, and most leave pissed off when they don't get them. And, I still don't see ANY logical reason why GM would underrate their top-of-the-line sports car in the midst of a horsepower war.

Well, Im too lazy to try and convince you.. go post the question on LS1tech and I'm sure you will get more than enough people willing to hash it out with you.. many of them having used Mustang dyno's (which could be argued are notoriously pessimistic in their readings) ;)

Oh, who was it that ran a 2002 Camaro SS to 12.98 bone stock? Not bad for 260rwhp.. :yeah:

And if you can't see why GM would want a bigger published number between a $24k Z28 Camaro and a $50k Vette then you need to brush up on Marketing 101 :)

[Ralph LoGrasso]

LS7 heads will NOT fit a LS1, LS6 or LS2 motor.. :(

Neither will the intake.. well it might "fit" but it would be pointless..


All my dreams--crushed. I wish there wasn't a two-month wait on MTI heads. :banghead:

[Fuelie Fan]

My comment about underrating the corvette applies mainly to the new one, since we were originally talking about the LS7. Two key facts:
1. the camaro's been gone for 4 model years
2. GM is following the newer, stricter SAE 1349 testing standard, with THE very first certified tested engine being of all things the LS7

Based on that, chances of it being grossly underrated seem slim to me.

I also have to rescind the dyno offer, I'm going to China for 6 weeks on business, but I'd definitely like to run one when I get back. I have no problem eating humble pie if anyone can serve it, I've gotten used to the bitter-sweet aftertaste :) When I get back I'll post on LS1tech and find a local with a camaro/firebird to test.

[Nine Ball]

My comment about underrating the corvette applies mainly to the new one, since we were originally talking about the LS7. Two key facts:
1. the camaro's been gone for 4 model years
2. GM is following the newer, stricter SAE 1349 testing standard, with THE very first certified tested engine being of all things the LS7

Based on that, chances of it being grossly underrated seem slim to me.

I also have to rescind the dyno offer, I'm going to China for 6 weeks on business, but I'd definitely like to run one when I get back. I have no problem eating humble pie if anyone can serve it, I've gotten used to the bitter-sweet aftertaste :) When I get back I'll post on LS1tech and find a local with a camaro/firebird to test.

Regardless if your Dyno reads less than a Dynojet from other shops, we can still evaluate things in a relative sense. Just about every LS1 shop in the country has run Dyno tests on F-bodies and Corvettes of the same years and the F-bodies typically dyno just a bit higher than the Corvettes. Corvettes were rated at 345hp in 1998. F-bodies rated at 305 hp. But, we get results like this article printed in Hotrod (1998):

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So, yes, it has been proven 1000's of times that GM rated the Corvettes properly, but underrated the f-bodies. It is just a marketing tool, done so in order to not hurt the Corvette owner's more fragile egos. The thought of a lowly Camaro putting down similar numbers on the dyno and at the track probably would have made a majority of them avoid buying a Vette.

Tony

[Fuelie Fan]

mega-burned!

That's crazy, I'm pretty dissapointed. I've been a part of other test procedures and they're usually pretty strict, but this as well as further reading I have done both suggest that there was some "lee-way" in the hp testing procedure. As a last ditch cover for my ego, i still maintain that the ls7 will not be overrated with the newest procedure. so there. phhbt.

[formula]

gm is notorious for underrating all of their motors to ensure that even the worst performers meet the reported output...

i wouldnt be surprised in the slightest to see most ls7's (especially crates) putting about 20 hp or more than advertised down on the dyno.

[JayBird]

I also have seen where GM's Fastburn 385 crate motor makes right at 400hp and with the hotcam and 1.6 rockers, which is a "zz430" clone actually makes 440+.

[Fuelie Fan]

now you guys are getting into a different area. I can find a similar in which one of the magazines blatantly admits that the correction factors used at the dyno they went to was completely different and very optimistic, so just because you saw higher than rated numbers doesn't mean the engine is indeed under-rated. I've run 3 ZZ4's on two different mustang dynos and have yet to surpass 250 rwhp (average 230ish), so does that mean they over-rated the zz4?

[Steve1968LS2]

now you guys are getting into a different area. I can find a similar in which one of the magazines blatantly admits that the correction factors used at the dyno they went to was completely different and very optimistic, so just because you saw higher than rated numbers doesn't mean the engine is indeed under-rated. I've run 3 ZZ4's on two different mustang dynos and have yet to surpass 250 rwhp (average 230ish), so does that mean they over-rated the zz4?

Now you are believing the magazines? :pat:

;)

[Steve1968LS2]

Scoggin-Dickey just posted on LS1TECH.com about the new pricing for the 427ci LS7 crate engine.

$12,995 complete from intake to oil pan, including exhaust manifolds.

I'm trying to verify if that includes the engine harness and PCM....

A simple cam swap and some headers and this engine should have no problem making 550-575 rwhp! Head flow numbers are huge.

Tony

I can't comment yet but this price is wrong.. but it will be adusted up a bit since the MSRP is gonna be higher than thought.

I will post up the deal when I get the green light from GM.

[Fuelie Fan]

Now you are believing the magazines? :pat:

;)


HEHE isn't that terrible? Luckily I wasn't agreeing with EVERYTHING "the magazines" had to say, so I'm still your enemy (even though I subscribe to three of them currently)

Seriously, any head-to-head test is pretty hard to argue with, and I was trying! But, I still will take most stand-alone hp numbers with a grain of salt unless they specifically mention what kind of dyno, what correction factors, etc etc, were used so that I can relate it. Otherwise, the numbers themselves mean very little.

There's obviously only one solution here: someone buy me an ls7 so I can test it in my nova. Who's game?