Camber: does this look right? (track video inside)

[Flash68]

...videos from Willow Springs track day 2 weeks ago.

kep points:

-2.2* camber -- alignment done right before track day
Global West control arms
ATS AFX spindles

need further info?

We were surprised to not see more dynamic camber in this video. Any ideas?

Thanks


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8cyh2mK3tE

[chicane67]

Kinda hard to actually tell... from the vantage of the camera.

Just sitting still from that vantage... doesnt even show the static that you have dialed into it. But in motion... it does look as if the tire had enough camber in it to address body roll and the suspension compression.

You dont have any tire temps do ya ?

[CarlC]

Yup, tire temps.

[Flash68]

Ok should have temps for you guys by tmrw at the latest... they're in the file!

[Flash68]

Ok got temps for you guys. CCW track.

1st session -- warmup

Left Front: Outside to Inside = 88* to 89*
Right Front: Outside to Inside = 100* to 100*

Left Rear: Outside to Inside = 87* to 89*
Right Rear: Outside to Inside = 114* to 110* to *103


2nd session -- litte faster

Left Front: Outside to Center to Inside = 100* to 107* to 108*
Right Front: Outside to Center to Inside = 117* to 116* to 113*

Left Rear: Outside to Inside = 105* to 109*
Right Rear: Outside to Inside = 108* to 106*

3rd or 4th session -- full boogie

Left Front: Outside to Inside = 100* to 106*
Right Front: Outside to Inside = 132* to 127*

Left Rear: Outside to Inside = 106* to 106*
Right Rear: Outside to Inside = 122* to 117*

Over the sessions we also gradually brought tire pressures down from 35 to 32 psi cold, and they were gaining about 5 psi per session.


Comments?

[chicane67]

Actually... I dont see a whole lot wrong with those numbers. Not in the least...

Well... maybe a little cold... Lol

Did you do the alignment with you in the seat ? By the numbers... I am saying you did not. That may explain the cross temperature changes between the left and right numbers.

However... what we the rears ? That can also leed some insight to what the front is or isnt doing.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Hey Tyler - maybe you could explain track tire temp theory to this rook?

[Flash68]

Actually... I dont see a whole lot wrong with those numbers. Not in the least...

Well... maybe a little cold... Lol

Did you do the alignment with you in the seat ? By the numbers... I am saying you did not. That may explain the cross temperature changes between the left and right numbers.

However... what we the rears ? That can also leed some insight to what the front is or isnt doing.

Full temp numbers in the post above now.

No, did not do alignment with me in the seat.

I thought the car felt best and grabbed most on the 32 psi cold setting. Others with NT05 experience suggested anywhere from 32 to 36 cold.

Thanks

[Flash68]

Hey Tyler - maybe you could explain track tire temp theory to this rook?

Tyler? Where?

And yes I just drive... learning the car still. LOL

[MrQuick]

Hey Tyler - maybe you could explain track tire temp theory to this rook?

LOL.... I can see the mistake. j/k tommy. :moon:

[CarlC]

When you took the tire temps, how soon after the run were they taken?

Based on the data above, I'm with Tom. They don't look bad at all, but cold.

[Vegas69]

How long were the sessions?

[Flash68]

When you took the tire temps, how soon after the run were they taken?

Based on the data above, I'm with Tom. They don't look bad at all, but cold.

Within 1-2 minutes at most I'd say. Depends if I got a full session or not for various reasons (2 out of 5).


How long were the sessions?

Supposed to be 20 min sessions, but I pulled off (or was towed off) on 3 of the 5 sessions. Shift linkage issue, oil temp reading (bad gauge), & battery tipped over. LOL

[chicane67]

Thanks Vin. (cough) D*ck (/cough). Grey hair yes... but not quite blue yet ! (in my best Monty Python impression.)

Dave - To add to Carls direction in length of time before temps were taken... in the future, try and get inner, center and outer temps... as it will associate to any pressure issues that may be present or help explain possible cupping issues.

The second, third or fourth run temps do show an alignment issue... and my intripretation is that you need to get the chassis scaled to verify my input. I believe that you need to read your corner weights, with you in the car, just after you do the alignment with you in the car. Basically, set the car up as you would be on the track... do an alignment and then scale it... with you and the amount of fuel (perferrably totally full or totally empty.)

Another question... which direction were you running the track and which course was set up for that day ?

The only thing that stands out to me... is the RR temps. The chassis either needs more cross weight to distribute the front loads better and to take some load off of the right rear. Its either that... or a possible bend housing or a loose differential... ie, worn clutch packs or not enough preload shim to the clutch pack.

If I could see scale numbers, as it is... before any change, that would help.

But seriously, nothing to be really alarmed with. They -look- proper... and it just needs a little nudge in adjustment.

[CarlC]

It's hard to do tire temps on a controlled open track day. Think in terms of seconds, not minutes, to get reliable temperatures.

A helper makes it much easier. A simple table make it fast and easy to interpret the data:

LF........ Outer............Center.............Inner......... ..RF.............Inner..............Center........ ....Outer
PSI

LR.........Outer...........Center..............Inn er...........RR............Inner...............Cen ter............Outer
PSI

Periods are added to keep the formatting here. Normally the four are arranged like they would be from a plan view of the car with the pressure just above or below the tire in question. It makes taking the readings easy to remember since they are oriented just like they would read from the car.

All tire temperaturs first, then pressures. The pressure will change much slower than the temperatures.

You're 95+% of the way there. It's that last bit that's tough, especially if you can't move weight around too much (me).

Oh, and Tom, we're not that skinny either.

[Flash68]

Thanks Vin. (cough) D*ck (/cough). Grey hair yes... but not quite blue yet ! (in my best Monty Python impression.)

Dave - To add to Carls direction in length of time before temps were taken... in the future, try and get inner, center and outer temps... as it will associate to any pressure issues that may be present or help explain possible cupping issues.

The second, third or fourth run temps do show an alignment issue... and my intripretation is that you need to get the chassis scaled to verify my input. I believe that you need to read your corner weights, with you in the car, just after you do the alignment with you in the car. Basically, set the car up as you would be on the track... do an alignment and then scale it... with you and the amount of fuel (perferrably totally full or totally empty.)

Another question... which direction were you running the track and which course was set up for that day ?

The only thing that stands out to me... is the RR temps. The chassis either needs more cross weight to distribute the front loads better and to take some load off of the right rear. Its either that... or a possible bend housing or a loose differential... ie, worn clutch packs or not enough preload shim to the clutch pack.

If I could see scale numbers, as it is... before any change, that would help.

But seriously, nothing to be really alarmed with. They -look- proper... and it just needs a little nudge in adjustment.

Still have not gotten to a scale of any kind yet, but it's on my list.

Streets of Willow was CCW config that day.

I don't know if it explains it ALL, but the psi changes were not uniformly applied all day, until the end of the day.... we were playing with things left to right.


It's hard to do tire temps on a controlled open track day. Think in terms of seconds, not minutes, to get reliable temperatures.

A helper makes it much easier. A simple table make it fast and easy to interpret the data:

LF........ Outer............Center.............Inner......... ..RF.............Inner..............Center........ ....Outer
PSI

LR.........Outer...........Center..............Inn er...........RR............Inner...............Cen ter............Outer
PSI

Periods are added to keep the formatting here. Normally the four are arranged like they would be from a plan view of the car with the pressure just above or below the tire in question. It makes taking the readings easy to remember since they are oriented just like they would read from the car.

All tire temperaturs first, then pressures. The pressure will change much slower than the temperatures.

You're 95+% of the way there. It's that last bit that's tough, especially if you can't move weight around too much (me).

Oh, and Tom, we're not that skinny either.

Carl, I do have helpers. I had a pit crew of 2 (I am not a handy guy -- I do more damage than good when trying to tinker on cars) but we are all relatively inexperienced when it comes to serious road racing, which I am catching the bug of quickly.

Tom/Carl -- thanks for the guidance thus far.

[CarlC]

Flash has officially taken a hit off the crack pipe. Welcome to the addiction club.

[Flash68]

Flash has officially taken a hit off the crack pipe. Welcome to the addiction club.

That's a big 10-4 Carl!

[chicane67]

Dave- Well... CCW explains a fair share of that too. But, man... you are close. A couple of tweeks and the car will be there.





Oh, and Tom, we're not that skinny either.

Why does someone always gotta pick on the big guys ?? Hell, I'm down 45 lbs from Spring Mountain this last Novemeber... :slap:

[Chad-1stGen]

Dave,

I noticed a huge difference in temps between pitting before the checkered and taking tire temps after a maximum effort lap (preferrably after 5+ maximum effort laps) versus doing a full session with cool down lap.

The one time I took temps that way I was closer to 150* temp rather than the 120-130* temps I got after a cool down lap.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Tyler? Where?

And yes I just drive... learning the car still. LOL


LOL.... I can see the mistake. j/k tommy.

Yes, it's Tyler B. And the 'rook' comment was referring to myself...:)

[Flash68]

Dave- Well... CCW explains a fair share of that too. But, man... you are close. A couple of tweeks and the car will be there.







Thanks Tom for the insight.


Dave,

I noticed a huge difference in temps between pitting before the checkered and taking tire temps after a maximum effort lap (preferrably after 5+ maximum effort laps) versus doing a full session with cool down lap.

The one time I took temps that way I was closer to 150* temp rather than the 120-130* temps I got after a cool down lap.

Yeah that makes sense Chad. Our note system was decent, but we were all rookies out there so it wasn't as organized as we would have liked. But it's a start.


Yes, it's Tyler B. And the 'rook' comment was referring to myself...:)

I am a rook just as much as you Ron!

[CarlC]

Why does someone always gotta pick on the big guys ?? Hell, I'm down 45 lbs from Spring Mountain this last Novemeber... :slap:

Note the "we" in my response. I'm down 15# since April 27. I'm no Mr. Twiggy either.