1st Gen Camaro alignment specs

[67rally]

I just got done installing the Speedtech upper and lower control arms, along with the Hotchkis 2" drop coil springs and Bilstein shocks. I added the Hotchkis 1 1/8" front sway bar and heavy duty tie rod ends, and topped it off with the PPM tall ball joints.

I have the specs that Speedtech suggests for daily performance street driving:
5 degrees positive caster (5 1/2 for passenger side)
0 to 1/2 degree negative camber
3/32 toe in

And for agressive driving:
5 1/2 degrees positive caster (6 for passgener side)
1/2 to 1 degree negative camber
3/32 toe in

The question is how do these recommendations change with the addition of the tall ball joints, or is just easier to hit those numbers? This is for a mostly street driven car. Thanks.

[Chad-1stGen]

Tall ball joints change the camber curve. On a stock first gen you car will gain positive camber as the suspension compresses. With tall ball joints you reverse that so that upon suspension compression you gain negative camber. Theoretically, you could possibly get away with less static camber since you now have better geometry. However, looking at those specs above, I don't know that you would find a significant difference in the recommendation with or without tall BJ's.

FWIW I'd venture to say that anything under 0.5* of static negative camber is very mild.

[67rally]

Thanks Chad. It's at the shop this week for some welding on the rear frame rails and the alignment. If I need to change those specs, now is the time.

[David Pozzi]

Use the street driving specs. The tall ball joints increase camber gain but only by a small amount.

[67rally]

Use the street driving specs. The tall ball joints increase camber gain but only by a small amount.

Thanks David, that's what we went with. My alignment guy said he was really impressed with how few shims he needed to hit those numbers with the SpeedTech control arms.

[68400BIRD]

Did you also do the Guldstrand modifcation??

[67rally]

Did you also do the Guldstrand modifcation??

No, just the tall ball joints at this time.

[68400BIRD]

I wonder if there would be a need to do it with the tall ball joints. I have the same comtrol arms but with normal heigth upper ball joints and Guldstrand mod.

[Roberts68]

Let us know what you think of your mods, I'm looking to echo most of what you did... My purse strings get pulled in different directions at times due to another "good deal" here and there.

Somehow a 3.73/Posi and a set of wheels/tires jumped in line ahead of the Speedtech arms but they are still on the list awaiting regeneration of "Camaro funds".

I'm really interested in what you think of your suspension package.

Thank you,
Robert

[67rally]

Let us know what you think of your mods, I'm looking to echo most of what you did... My purse strings get pulled in different directions at times due to another "good deal" here and there.

Somehow a 3.73/Posi and a set of wheels/tires jumped in line ahead of the Speedtech arms but they are still on the list awaiting regeneration of "Camaro funds".

I'm really interested in what you think of your suspension package.

Thank you,
Robert

I'll definitely let you know. I hear you on the purse strings. I got my front end back together quickly so it could go to the bodyshop for some welding on the rear frame rails. I had to put the old drum brakes back on because I hadn't ordered my discs yet, and it turns out the drums were binding on the lower control arms, and preventing the steering from returning to center. I just ordered a set of Wilwoods from Frank, and they should be here today and go on early next week. I'll update when I get it back.

Rear suspension is being held up by the rear frame rails. We went to install the subframe connectors and found some rot in the frame rails. The more we poked, the more we found. Looks like the "restorer" chose to use bondo on the frame rails instead of something more substantial like steel, they also welded the new trunk pan in over the rotten old one. Waiting for the bodyshop to squeeze me in (couldn't do it last week), install the new trunk pan, frame rails, rear leafs, new gas tank, back to the mechanic for new sender, fuel lines, fuel pump, etc. Ack.:rolleyes:

[67rally]

I wonder if there would be a need to do it with the tall ball joints. I have the same comtrol arms but with normal heigth upper ball joints and Guldstrand mod.

Probably some benefit, but unless I really start AutoX it, it should be great for around town use.

***Edit***

I just read a reply from Hotchkis over on TC regarding the use of their control arms w/tall upper ball joints and the G-mod would cause binding at full compression of the control arm. So it looks like it's one or the other (tall ball joint or Gulstrand, not both). I'm guessing the SpeedTech arms would be similar.

[Roberts68]

Holy smokes. I'd still have smoke coming out of my ears if I found bondo in the frame rails. That's downright belligerent concealment. What a hack.

Better to find it now than AFTER you start driving hard though I suspect.

Sounds like she's gonna be a well sorted machine to me... after a little tummy tuck and the rest of the makeover. :)

[67rally]

Holy smokes. I'd still have smoke coming out of my ears if I found bondo in the frame rails. That's downright belligerent concealment. What a hack.


Yep, they were hacks. But they would deny it, and say that it must have been the previous owner's work. That's how they roll.

[Roberts68]

Again, I am thankful I have owned my car as long as I have. I've been around and under a few others and mine is actually a pretty nice solid car. Of course it used to keep it's undercarriage fairly well lubed with atf and 10w30 so that may have helped to a point.
LOL

[Hotchkis]

67Rally - Good thing you found the rot and bondo in the frame rails before something bad happened. Were you installing our subframe connectors?

Good catch on our post about the taller ball joints. It's better to be safe than sorry. Some people don't realize how far the suspension travels/compresses while driving.

[67rally]

67Rally - Good thing you found the rot and bondo in the frame rails before something bad happened. Were you installing our subframe connectors?

Good catch on our post about the taller ball joints. It's better to be safe than sorry. Some people don't realize how far the suspension travels/compresses while driving.

Yes, I'm using Hotchkis subframe connectors, along with your 1 1/2" lowering springs in the rear and 2" coils in the front, Bilstein shocks, Hotchkis front sway bar, and PPM tall upper ball joints.

The front stuff is all in (I went with the SpeedTech upper and lower arms because I liked the adjustable steering stops), and it has made a world of difference. Just waiting on the body shop so I can get the rear squared away.

[Hotchkis]

67Rally - Thanks for including Hotchkis on your Camaro project. We look forward to hearing what you think about the ride of your Camaro once you add our subframe connectors to your new rear frame rails. That's going to be a big job, but should make a big difference in how your car feels.

[67rally]

67Rally - Thanks for including Hotchkis on your Camaro project. We look forward to hearing what you think about the ride of your Camaro once you add our subframe connectors to your new rear frame rails. That's going to be a big job, but should make a big difference in how your car feels.

Yeah, nothing a fistful of $1000 bills won't take care of.:hand:

I would rather sink that money into a nice shiny LS motor or new rearend or something, but it doesn't make sense to make it fast before you make it safe.