48 Hour build

[Reckn8]

I've watched on and off the building of the 67. The interviews the Chad does are ok. I was SO hoping that when the welding was happening that one would get Chad in the foot!! BUT the live chat that you can follow just proves what todays society level is at today. Kind of like going to a car show and listening to everyone trash each car for this or that. Gets really old after awhile. I'm just saying.

[Vicinity]

We had some good convos going on last night.

The first day there was a couple of d!cks talking.

[Yelcamino]

So how did the car turn out?

[tazzz25906112]

Herb the car is coming along really cool....This is certainly worth looking at,,,Hell I thought it was cool enough to drive 12hrs down to see...

[John Wright]

I enjoyed the ability to chat...but the kids playing in there got kinda old and several had to be banned

[rfalker1]

48 hour camaro was awesome!!! i learned alot and it came out great!!!!!!! Also it really tested my will, because they finished around 5 am here. Talk about difficult lol

[John Wright]

48 hour camaro was awesome!!! i learned alot and it came out great!!!!!!! I agree 100%...enjoyed watching every minute.

[jturkey69]

I also learned a ton!! Agreed that there were alot of trash talkers baggin on some of the workers, and other stuff, but it was way cool that I felt like I was part of a build! Even my wife would crack up listening to some of the stories that were being told...and Mike Copeland just flat out is awesome!!! That guy needs his own weekly online show, or tv show!
Thanks!!!

[Vicinity]

I also learned a ton!! Agreed that there were alot of trash talkers baggin on some of the workers, and other stuff, but it was way cool that I felt like I was part of a build! Even my wife would crack up listening to some of the stories that were being told...and Mike Copeland just flat out is awesome!!! That guy needs his own weekly online show, or tv show!
Thanks!!!

On top of that, Chad did an excellent job being the "host" of the build. Made it extremely (more) fun to watch. Unfortunately, he didn't get to play with any fire. But he managed to survive with all his toes!

[jturkey69]

On top of that, Chad did an excellent job being the "host" of the build. Made it extremely (more) fun to watch. Unfortunately, he didn't get to play with any fire. But he managed to survive with all his toes!

Agreed!!..my wife thought Chad was HILARIOUS!

[davidk68]

I thought it was okay.... to be honest my computer had trouble keeping up with the video and the chat was bad when I was watching yesterday afternoon and I really didn't care to see a 4-wheeler being driven around a parking lot, but it is a nice car. Is there somewhere on Ridetech's site that has all the specs on the car and parts?? Like wheel/tire sizes including backspacing, brake specs, engine specs......is that Ridetech's triangulater 4-link in the rear?? I didn't see a full listing on Ridetech's site.

Thanks - David

[Six_Shooter]

Did the cut the hood yet?

It was ok. I guess I just didn't tune in at the right times for the aforementioned excitement and interesting stories. :/

I did tune in for the engine start, and the Red Chevelle, which was nice to show off some other cars during the build.

I was hoping to see more detail shots of what people were doing, not just a camera sitting back from the car while people were leaning against it. If there was any of this real close up detail video, I apologize, but there wasn't any in the several hours I was able to watch over the 3 days.

I like the idea of viewers being able to get in on the next build.

Who thinks there should have been a build thread that was updated every 20 minutes or so? lol There could be a couple of people dedicated to recording the info and taking pictures to update the thread as it's being built.

[John Wright]

my computer had trouble keeping up with the videoAt work I could watch the video, but at home the video would not run at all....fast computer, but slow satellite internet connection(probably due to all of the heavy rain/tall clouds)

[mc84_zz4]

Who thinks there should have been a build thread that was updated every 20 minutes or so? lol There could be a couple of people dedicated to recording the info and taking pictures to update the thread as it's being built.
It would have been nice to be able to read off what the status is easily, and maybe even go 'see' a chapter you may have 'missed'.
Some of the on-camera antics were a riot, and I swear one of Ride_Tech's guys looked like Chuck Norris without a beard.

[Vicinity]

Did the cut the hood yet?

It was ok. I guess I just didn't tune in at the right times for the aforementioned excitement and interesting stories. :/

I did tune in for the engine start, and the Red Chevelle, which was nice to show off some other cars during the build.

I was hoping to see more detail shots of what people were doing, not just a camera sitting back from the car while people were leaning against it. If there was any of this real close up detail video, I apologize, but there wasn't any in the several hours I was able to watch over the 3 days.

I like the idea of viewers being able to get in on the next build.

Who thinks there should have been a build thread that was updated every 20 minutes or so? lol There could be a couple of people dedicated to recording the info and taking pictures to update the thread as it's being built.

I enjoyed watching it. That's much better and more interesting than the crap that is on TV. It would have been awesome if they kept a build thread going with the video. A lot of stuff I was begging for info on while in the chat. I basically had to keep asking until Chad noticed and answered.

[John Wright]

Dave, I think Chad said they would have it all avaiable for review at a later date....I think they are getting ready for the trip right now.

[John Wright]

MattG also made several attempts to answer questions for people.

[Nessumsar]

I had a great time watching the build progress and shooting the S with all of the guys in the chat. Some of the conversations where worth their weight in Mur!

On a side note, I won the "when will it be done" contest :thankyou:. I had the first 10:42pm guess and nailed it, now I have to wait to see what is in my "care package"....

Big thanks goes out the build crew, you guys did a great job! :cheers:

[John Wright]

I tried my best to get them to hit the key at 4:29:57 pm.....oh well, glad you won.

[Nessumsar]

You were really pushing for that time! lol You came pretty close too.

[John Wright]

You were really pushing for that time! lol You came pretty close too.LOL...they were probably getting annoyed by 4:30...especially if they were actually having some problems. What were they banging on the tank for?...gage not reading? Float stuck?

[Six_Shooter]

Yes, Matt did a good job of relaying the chat antics, and answering questions.

[Larry Callahan]

I picked 11:42 exactly an hour later then John. When they ran into a minor clutch problem I thought I might have it. Doh!

They did a great job on it and I hope they do it again. Funny thing is on day two my wife got hooked and was watching it and work and on her laptop. She said it was oddly addicting. LOL!

[Bigblue73]

They need to do that again! Addicting is an understatement.

[jturkey69]

Agreed on the addiction!!! My wife thought Chad was hilarious, and yes MattG (My zoomies will be better) did a terrific job as well as alot of the Ridetech employees logging in to answer questions. I wonder if we will see another one this year?? I learned alot, especially being very new to the pro-touring side of things....then I got schooled when I was told to look up Boundary Layer Airflow...lol it was a very interesting read...good stuff!

[Martin71RS]

addicting indeed...saw at least 30 hours of it....and today had to work hard to catch up a bit (at work), was great seeing a lot of pt.com members there in the chat, someone even mentioned a build thread that he is supposed to have on this site :poke:

I just checked the site to see an update but it would not load the full text...have to get back tomorrowmorning.

trouble is I saw so much good stuff I want to upgrade my car again....

[bobcat68]

do they have a build list for the parts they used? they kept talking how everything was off the shelf bolt on stuff. ok so wheres the parts list?

[TonyHuntimer]

The 48HourCamaro coverage was awesome! I checked in a little every day. Enjoyed every minute. Chad Reynolds was the perfect guy to have on the coverage. I can't think of a better person to do the job. The whole thing was awesome!

RideTech hit a home run. It was The Truman Show meets OverHaulin!

Very addicting! I wish I could have watched more. I hope they do another build soon.


Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[DFRESH]

The 48HourCamaro coverage was awesome! I checked in a little every day. Enjoyed every minute. Chad Reynolds was the perfect guy to have on the coverage. I can't think of a better person to do the job. The whole thing was awesome!

RideTech hit a home run. It was The Truman Show meets OverHaulin!

Very addicting! I wish I could have watched more. I hope they do another build soon.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

Says the guy who left cause his pizza got delivered after making junior high jokes---LOL. You had some really good ones. That build sucked me in for over 2 hours last night---was a great two hours watching them finish it up---very addicting for sure.

Doug

[jturkey69]

Says the guy who left cause his pizza got delivered after making junior high jokes---LOL. You had some really good ones. That build sucked me in for over 2 hours last night---was a great two hours watching them finish it up---very addicting for sure.

Doug
I missed the last 2 1/2 hrs....i promised to help someone fix a skidsteer...and do some other stuff...I was on till the batteries died though...lol

[48hourbuild]

Hey guys its 48HourMattG. I'm finally home from the crazy week. If you guys have questions about the build, you can ask me here. The car did awesome in Nashville and ran perfect. We will be uploading all the videos from the weekend and thousands of pictures to the 48hourcamaro site. This was one of the most documented builds I have ever been on.

And Chad was awesome as the host on the build. He did the MC work at the autocross this weekend at GoodGuys. He will also be at the Run to Music City event this coming weekend in Nashville. I will be there with him giving him a hand so if your there come and see us.

Matt G

[jturkey69]

You guys rocked it, and then some!!!! Chad was awesome, and so were you answering questions live online. I did notice when the first vid that amber posted ( it think) when the car was doing its maiden voyage in the parking lot, it sounded like mis-fires, or rev-limiter? I know it was sorted out later since the vids at Nashville showed it haulin ass....what was the deal with that, and how was it corrected?

oh yeah...my zoomies will be better!!...lol

[wellis77]

I asked the question on the chat during the build but may have missed a reply. Why the decision to go with coil-overs vs. air?

[Vicinity]

I asked the question on the chat during the build but may have missed a reply. Why the decision to go with coil-overs vs. air?

Air takes longer to install, plus they're trying to promote their new product and show they aren't just "Air Ride specialists".

[John Wright]

....also, I thought they said they were using the first set of triple adjustables for this....and will test all sorts of stuff eventually on this same car.

[Vicinity]

....also, I thought they said they were using the first set of triple adjustables for this....and will test all sorts of stuff eventually on this same car.

Also true. I forgot about that.

[wellis77]

I didn't realize they used the triple adjustables. Cool stuff!

[tazzz25906112]

The car ran strong and was tuff as nails down at Goodguys this weekend, and Hell yes Chad did a great job of the MC for the entire build..... Gang just try to imagine talking for 48hrs strait and keeping it balanced between informative and light,,,, the guy is amazing!!!!

[barraza]

I took a close look at the camaro at the Goodguys Nashville event. The most interesting thing to me was the 10" front wheels and 275 tires. Brett said they had 5 3/4" backspacing. That size is a nonstarter on a stock front end 67-8 camaro, and it wasn't really clear on the videos how they did it. A typical camaro will be fine with a 18x8 with 4 3/4 bs, and a 245 tire. The first thing was the steering arms that allow more backspacing. They were prototypes that were raised, and matched up with a bracket attached to the centerlink that bolted to the stock inner tie rod holes, and raised the inner tie rod a corresponding amount to minimize bumpsteer. Simple idea that is similar to what was done on the OLC camaro, but without the issue of welding on the steering arm and center link. The amount of wheel outboard of the hub was just as interesting. It was done by trimming and folding back the fender lip. The inner fender was also trimmed and not bolted to the outer fender around the wheelwell. The 275 tire is only 30 mm wider than a 245, but the wheel is almost 51 mm wider than a typical 8" wheel, so the result is that the tire is pulled in more in relation to the outer wheel surface, kind of like a tire with a very rounded shoulder. Very effective, and a very tight fit. Not really something you could do to an already painted car without damaging the paint. It wasn't on a lift, so I couldn't see the clearance on the inside. With 1 inch more backspace than a typical fitment, and a tire that bulges out over the wheel less, I would imagine you could make it rub the frame, but it would not be serious.

Also interesting to me, was the muncie / gearvendor combo. It was on the stock tranny crossmember, and Bret said it fit the tunnel perfect. A very good option for someone who doesnt want to cut the tunnel for a t56 clearance, and need to have the shifter come through the console in the exact stock location.

Very cool car.

[bret]

I took a close look at the camaro at the Goodguys Nashville event. The most interesting thing to me was the 10" front wheels and 275 tires. Brett said they had 5 3/4" backspacing. That size is a nonstarter on a stock front end 67-8 camaro, and it wasn't really clear on the videos how they did it. A typical camaro will be fine with a 18x8 with 4 3/4 bs, and a 245 tire. The first thing was the steering arms that allow more backspacing. They were prototypes that were raised, and matched up with a bracket attached to the centerlink that bolted to the stock inner tie rod holes, and raised the inner tie rod a corresponding amount to minimize bumpsteer. Simple idea that is similar to what was done on the OLC camaro, but without the issue of welding on the steering arm and center link. The amount of wheel outboard of the hub was just as interesting. It was done by trimming and folding back the fender lip. The inner fender was also trimmed and not bolted to the outer fender around the wheelwell. The 275 tire is only 30 mm wider than a 245, but the wheel is almost 51 mm wider than a typical 8" wheel, so the result is that the tire is pulled in more in relation to the outer wheel surface, kind of like a tire with a very rounded shoulder. Very effective, and a very tight fit. Not really something you could do to an already painted car without damaging the paint. It wasn't on a lift, so I couldn't see the clearance on the inside. With 1 inch more backspace than a typical fitment, and a tire that bulges out over the wheel less, I would imagine you could make it rub the frame, but it would not be serious.

Also interesting to me, was the muncie / gearvendor combo. It was on the stock tranny crossmember, and Bret said it fit the tunnel perfect. A very good option for someone who doesnt want to cut the tunnel for a t56 clearance, and need to have the shifter come through the console in the exact stock location.

Very cool car.

Reader digest version of the frontend mods [cause I'm really tired today:) ] 18x10 wheel w/ 5.75 backspace, RideTech spindles, steering arms, centerlink, and tie rod ends that not only create proper clearance but vastly improve the camber curve, retain a good ackerman angle, and reduce the bumpsteer to under .050" through 5" of suspension travel. This is a prototype kit for us, but after the success we saw this weekend it will become a on the shelf system for us and should be available within the next 30-45 days. I don't know a final cost but it should be around $1000 total.
The front fender lips WERE rolled to make sure the 275-35/18 tires didn't rub at all at any steering angle or suspension height. We did that the week before when we were finalizing the new suspension system. That part can be as simple or complicated as you want it to...depending on your skill and ambition level.
I'll nail down pictures, video, and pricing as soon as I can.

[James OLC]

Brilliant Bret - glad to hear that you will be offering it as a kit!

[barraza]

Bret
I noticed the outer steering arms were a heim joint attachment, will the center link, and steering arms be made with tapered holes for a normal tie rod end?

[bret]

Bret
I noticed the outer steering arms were a heim joint attachment, will the center link, and steering arms be made with tapered holes for a normal tie rod end?

Haven't finalized that yet...I'm leaning toward making both ends a heim joint just to pretty it up and eliminate an additional BOM component. The steering arm attachment is a heim to get enough wheel clearance. We use a high quality kevlar lined heim in several other applications with great success in durabilty and quietness...no reason not to use it here as well.

[MattG]

Brett,

Great build and looking forward to the future of this car. I am drooling over the thought of getting a 10" wheel on the front of my '69 after seeing this. Do you think the steering arm will allow a 17" wheel or is an 18 as small as will fit (already have 17's and buying only new fronts would be nice).

Thanks again for the 48 hour build...it kept reminding me of Overhaulin' without all the crap added in! I want MORE!

Matt

[Z06vet]

I've been wanting to see how you ran the exhaust under the axle. I watched quite a bit of the build, but never did see the tailpipes go in or the final routing. Was a flange used so they can be removed easliy? I have mini tubs & Gbar w/notched tank. I have tailpipes over the axle now, but had to make a small section of 2.25" over the axle before going back to 2.5". Will the car be on the powertour? Hope to see it there
Scott

[cspecken]

Bret, great build. Can you provide a little more information on the rear end gear ratio and how well did the wavetrac center section work? Also, I'm interested in hearing more about the Gear Vendors product and how does it compare to a TKO 600 or T56 transmission and did you have to do anything to the muncie to make it perform well?



Thanks, Chris

[bret]

Bret, great build. Can you provide a little more information on the rear end gear ratio and how well did the wavetrac center section work? Also, I'm interested in hearing more about the Gear Vendors product and how does it compare to a TKO 600 or T56 transmission and did you have to do anything to the muncie to make it perform well?

The Moser 12bolt has a 3.50 gear. the Muncie is a brand new heavy duty M 20 unit from Autogear.
I can't say enough good things about all these parts. I've been using a Gearvendors unit behind a 700r4 in my Chevelle for 3years. It's almost an unfair advantage. I usually split first and second, and then third and fourth gear, then click it again to go into overdrive. The od ratio is .78.
I've been using Moser rear ends for years as well with great success. The wavetrac unit is a new item, but it's presence is seamless.
Why a Muncie instead of a Tremec? It's probably me, but I've never been able to get my Tremecs to shift under power (and I do that a lot). If I grab a gear at 7000 rpm, I'm not kidding...I want another gear now. The Muncie is slighty less precise than the ZF that I had in Velocity, but it shifts easily and we didnt have to spend 15 hours building a trans tunnel either.
Also, this Autogear Muncie is brand new...I'm thinking after some miles and a shifter adjustment it will get even better than it is now.

[MattG]

Bret,

Any idea if a 17" wheel will fit with this new front suspension?

Matt

[bret]

Just tried a 17x10 CCW wheel...fits fine on the suspension, but rubs the caliper slightly. By slightly I mean you could file the corner off the caliper and be fine. Or you could go to the 13" rotor instead of the 14" rotor.

[John Wright]

but rubs the caliper slightly. By slightly I mean you could file the corner off the caliper and be fine.

Bret could you use a small....7/32" or less shim between the wheel and rotor.....and space it out off the caliper and still not get into the fender?

[coolwelder62]

Bret,I saw the camaro in nashville.You guy's did an awesome job.The car worked great on the autox course.Scott M.

[bret]

Bret could you use a small....7/32" or less shim between the wheel and rotor.....and space it out off the caliper and still not get into the fender?

Good thought...didn't try that...I'll check it out today.

[John Wright]

^^I had to do that to clear my C5 calipers on my car.

[MattG]

Just tried a 17x10 CCW wheel...fits fine on the suspension, but rubs the caliper slightly. By slightly I mean you could file the corner off the caliper and be fine. Or you could go to the 13" rotor instead of the 14" rotor.

Thats awesome Bret...thanks for checking, put me on the list for the front end kit when it comes out!!!!

Matt

[bret]

Well...I've got hte 48 Hour Camaro all buttoned up and ready to leave for Nashville in the morning. Sorry, I forgot to try that spacer on the 17" wheel to see if that will cure the caliper clearnace problem...I'll have to get that next week.
We installed an oil cooler, adjusted the shifter, changed the fluids, rechecked the alignment, tilted the seats back a little, calibrated the Autometer dash, and replaced the shifter boot. Looking forward to see how the Camaro drives at over 100 on the big track!

I'm still amazed at how little we had to fix or even adjust on this brand new car. Hopefully this statement doenst jinx it!

[SicMonte]

Well...I've got hte 48 Hour Camaro all buttoned up and ready to leave for Nashville in the morning. Sorry, I forgot to try that spacer on the 17" wheel to see if that will cure the caliper clearnace problem...I'll have to get that next week.
We installed an oil cooler, adjusted the shifter, changed the fluids, rechecked the alignment, tilted the seats back a little, calibrated the Autometer dash, and replaced the shifter boot. Looking forward to see how the Camaro drives at over 100 on the big track!


I'm still amazed at how little we had to fix or even adjust on this brand new car. Hopefully this statement doenst jinx it!


Im excited to meet you down there and see the car!!!!!

[bret]

The 48 Hour Camaro did nicely at RTMC this weekend...4th overall! Not bad for such a fresh car. I was running 4th in the autocross on Saturday, but broke a front sway bar right before lunch and spent the rest of the day trying to tune and drive around that problem. We rewelded the end on Saturday night a Finch's garage so we were ready for the road course on Sunday.
The Nashville track is a blast...good corners and a couple of harsh transitions from the banked track to the infield...one of them at the end of the front straightaway at over 125mph! I was really proud of the new triple adjustable shocks on the Camaro. On the first session I was bottoming pretty hard on the harsh transitions, but the car was really good everywhere else. So I turned upcthe high speed compression adjustment...it took care of the transitions and didn't upset the rest of the handling characteristics. Very cool.
After the second session I had a severe power steering leak. We didnt install a power steering cooler yet and the extreme fluid temp had distorted the plastic reservoir. Thanks to Kyle Tucker for having a spare! Auto crossing doesn't produce enough heat to require a cooler, but several laps at nearly 135 seems to make it protest.
That Lingenfelter motor will MARCH on the top end! It took until the third session for me to gather enough sack to run full throttle the whole front straight. Spectre clocked the camaro at 121(and we ran some distance yet past their timing equipment). This is on a banked tri-oval where you dive into a fairly severe transition to the flat infield portion of the track at the end of the straightaway.
Loved, loved, loved the Gearvendors overdrive! I ran the infield portion in 2nd and 2nd overdrive, not shifting into 3rd until the long front stretch. I was on the chip at 7000 in 3rd over at the end of the front straight. That overdrive will certainly make you a better driver.
Now it's off to the Powertour...

[48hourbuild]

Begin video sequence first up autocross!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSp_4Zs4cpE

[48hourbuild]

Road Course Pt1. First half of course


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8tcJLhpc3A

[48hourbuild]

Part two!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH5-XmvCs2A

[Stg1Regal]

Bret
Awesome build just wish I could have seen it being built in person and seen you beat on it at RTMC.

Wanted to know if you folks at RideTech are going to release a full video set of the entire build would love to see it from beginning to end. ( on my time )
Thanks

[bret]

Matt Graves just left our shop with the 48 Hour Camaro to be in Florida for the Hot Rod Power Tour kickoff party on Saturday morning. If you see a cetain yellow 67 Camaro flying betweeen Indiana and Florida tonite and tomorrow...wave and say HI!
Matt will be doing daily updates from the Power Tour on the various forums, the 48 Hour Camaro website and our Facebook page. If you are going on the Tour, make sure you catch up with him. They will likely be in the Holley booth.
I'm going to join up with him at hte Nashville stop to run the autocross. Hope to see some of you there!

[parsonsj]

Bret,

How does the quick release steering hub hold up to "spirited" driving? We're using it on Unfair, but we obviously haven't tested it...

jp

[bret]

Bret,

How does the quick release steering hub hold up to "spirited" driving? We're using it on Unfair, but we obviously haven't tested it...

jp

Well...that particular unit added too much length to the column, so it currently has the standard hub on it. I need to get that back to you. I think it would work fine if I had allowed for the extra length when ordering the column...the device itself looks like a well made piece.
Also...unlike Velocity...we were able to get the seats down and back far enough to make entry/exit much easier, so a quick release was not as important. My Mustang, however, is a different story:)
I assume you will be at the kickoff party on Saturday?

[parsonsj]

I won't be there (working on getting a customer's car delivered). Sigh.

[bret]

48 Hour Camaro update

It has been one long summer! I’m not complaining…the 48 Hour Camaro has exceeded every expectation and even most of my hopes. We’ve put on about 13,000 miles, burned through 4 transmissions, 2 rearends, 11 sets of front tires, 4 sets of rear tires, one fuel tank, one fuel pump, a power steering pump, and 7 oil changes. I have no idea how much fuel…I just couldn’t bring myself to look!

One might look at the amount of “attrition” that we’ve had with parts this summer and think that we’ve had a run of bad luck. I think that considering the quantity and quality of use this car has had, our luck has been stellar! I didn’t build this car to set around and look pretty. It was built to demonstrate how easy the various parts manufacturers have made it to build a car like this, and how durable those parts are. The only way to that is to push the car to its limits…otherwise you’re just speculating.

Here is a question that I get ALL the time: “ does that [insert part or manufacturer] REALLY work?” I guess the perception is that even if I had problems with something I would try to seep it a secret, or at least gloss over it. Well, here is my personal and unabridged evaluation of the parts and systems of the Camaro this summer. For those who are interested, keep in mind these simple concepts:

1. For the consumers out there: This car has been used harder than any street car has a right to. REAL race cars have a team of professionals that attend to these components on an ongoing and regular basis. This is a street car that is driven like a race car.
2. For the manufacturers: My credibility is more important to me than your feelings. My opinions are just that…opinions. Others could have different experiences [better or worse] and therefore different opinions. If I only write about the good stuff it looks like an informercial!

Lingenfelter Engine – I have come to LOVE this Lingenfelter LS3. Initially we had to work through a couple of EFI tuning problems and ended up changing to a smaller camshaft to get more low end torque. After that…this thing just doesn’t give up! It made 470RWHP on Mike Norris’ dyno in September, which is only about 25 shy of the 427 cu.in engine that was in Velocity. It runs smooth, it pulls hard, and it’s never complained, even after being run “on the chip” multiple times. Score: 10

Engine accessories…Vintage Air Frontrunner, Holley cast aluminum oil pan, Hooker headers, Spectre air inlet system, Lokar throttle cable system – It’s hard to truly appreciate components that just sit there and do the job that you bought them to do. They don’t make any fuss, sometimes they can’t even be seen, they attract no attention until they break. That’s why you’ve not heard much about the components listed above…silently and completely efficient and effective. Score: 10

Holley EFI system – Here’s the one I get a lot of questions about. Everyone has looked at the self tuning capacity of the new Holley Avenger EFI with much anticipation…and for good reason. If it works [and it does] it resolves a LOT of the fears that some hotrodders have about EFI tuning [I don’t know anything about computers, etc…]. I would say that we initially experienced what I consider normal hotrodding bugs…a sensor was bad…a couple of wires got crossed…then we changed cams to get some more low end torque [so tuning started over]. Throughout ALL that the engine ran…OK. It just wasn’t the crisp efficient unit that I have been spoiled by with my Corvette and even Velocity. The self tuning feature of the system actually covered up some of these issues…so a normal EFI would have protested much more. The guys at Holley did not settle for OK, however. They found the bad sensor, they found where we screwed up the wiring connection, they plugged in a shelf program for the style of cam that we ended up with…and amazingly the engine now runs like it was intended to! No drama, just power. Score: 8.5 [and getting better daily!]

Transmission – My original direction of a Muncie 4 speed with the Gearvendors overdrive was a noble cause. I LOVED the simplicity of installation and the convenience of being able to push a button to engage the overdrive, especially on the racetrack. It’s almost an unfair advantage. The Muncie initially shifted great both up and down, the gearvendors unit performed flawlessly [after we rescued it from our mis-measured coupler clearance issue] and life was good until the trans gave up under my less than forgiving shifting style. The Muncie did not seem to be enchanted with the ongoing full power upshifting and rigorous downshifting that I put it through on the road courses. Each time I went on the big track I came back with the teeth missing from third gear. After the third time the guys at AGE very graciously suggested that I try another path until they could figure out why a transmission that regularly sees 800hp drag racing action would not hold up to the road course action. I say gracious because they did not try to blame the problem on me…they acknowledged the problem, set about on a fix, and did not let me continue to suffer in the meantime. Real men and real hotrodders.
The next fix in that area was a race prepped Tex T101a. This thing came out of an ARCA car and was complete with the gear dogs that allowed clutchless up and down shifts, and straight cut gears that made shifting effortless, but also made the car sound like a garbage truck going down the road. This is one hell of a transmission, but it lacked one crucial element: There is currently no adapter plate for the Gearvendors overdrive unit. That is why this transmission was a temporary fix. There is no way I would give up that gearrvendors overdrive. Besides the obvious RPM reduction that the .78 overdrive allows, I could run most big tracks in third gear only, toggling between direct and overdrive to affect gear changes. Like I said, almost an unfair advantage! It was great at the smaller autocrosses as well. Most of the Goodguys tracks are a first gear affair, but some are just a little larger…too long for first, but second is too tall. THAT is where the Gearvendors unit is a true advantage…it’s like first-and-a-half!
Score – Muncie – 5 – great for a street car – couldn’t hang on the big track with all the down shifting I do
Score – Tex T101 – 6 – great transmission but no adapter for the overdrive unit
Score Gearvendors overdrive – 10 – I WILL find a way to engage this tool. Maybe Gearvendors can get in the transmission business?

So what is the current status in the transmission department? Well, I’ve had people LINED UP to extole the virtues of the Tremec T56 Magnum. I initially had no interest for a couple of reasons: my last tremec experiences a few years ago were not successful, and the MOST of the people who were braying about the Magnum had yet to complete their cars, or at least use them the way I intended to use mine.
BUT…since I had to make a change…AND there were now a few people whom I trusted and who HAD actually used that transmission in anger successfully…And American Powertrain had a complete conversion system that made the installation very painless…we have now gone in that direction. At this point I truly do not have enough track time to give an informed evaluation [that will change shortly] but after initial installation and street driving…it’s looking like at least a 9!

Moser Rearend – I can’t imagine a company that is more efficient or more easy to work with than Moser Engineering. They can deliver a complete custom rearend in 2 days! This is not some “special favor” or a one time effort…they do this as a matter of everyday business.
Any by the way…this 12 bolt Moser unit works great. Proper fit, no noise, no leaks, no mistakes…it just works. We are using the new WaveTrac posi unit with a 3.50 gear. This design has plenty of drag racing track time on it, but not as much road course testing until now. We’ve traded out Wavetrac units a couple of time to allow disassembly and evaluation. Each time they have made a couple of small refinements to improve release and oiling and such things…all in the name of making it better! Score – 9

Baer Brakes – Best brakes in the world. Stable, linear, predictable, no fade, no pad knockback. Oh, yeah…they look kinda zoomy, too! Score - 10

Vintage Air A/C system and US Radiator – So, I’m sitting in the staging lanes in Nashville at the Power Tour autocross in 96 degree heat and at least that much humidity. I am a creature of comfort so I turn the air conditioning on and continue to sit there like that for another 25 minutes. Two guys walk up to chat about the car and reckon that I’ve not turned the car off because I’m afraid it won’t restart in this heat. When I informed them that, in reality, I had the A/C on to keep cool, they responded [in unision] “Bull****!”. So I said…stick your head in here…A/C blowing cold…temp gauge pegged at 196 degrees. My friggen new Z06 won’t even do that! Score – 10

RideTech Suspension – Ah, yes…let’s see if the owner of RideTech can at least appear to be somewhat subjective about his own products! OK…here goes!
Let me preface this part by repeating what many other manufacturers have told me directly: There is NOBODY harder on equipment than Bret Voelkel. I don’t abuse anything, but I don’t baby anything either. If there is a weak spot, I will find it.

Tru Turn front end – The Tru Turn was created because I tired of getting my ass beat in Velocity because I was handicapped by not being able to get anything bigger than a 245 mm tire on the front of it. When we built this car I told the guys that we are going to get a 275 tire under that frontend if it takes a sawzall to accomplish it! While we were at it, we discovered that we could fix the inherent bumpsteer issues as well…AND we could accomplish all this with bolt on parts! The result? 275 tires on a 10” wheel, full turning radius, no bumpsteer…all on a stock front subframe for $1000. Performance? This car sticks the frontend better than my Z06 Corvette. Problems? None of the 48 Hour car but I have heard of some customer experiencing clearance problems with Gen 1 small blocks with big headers. Score – 9

RideTech 4 link – We’ve had this bolt in 4 link for several years. The basic architecture remains the same, but we’ve made small refinements over the years…rear swaybar, articulating heim ends, offset lower bars to increase tire clearance…small stuff like that. We have also taken to recommending welding the cradle in IF you are going to use the car consistently with sticky tires. For civilians, it bolts in, its compatible with minitubs and 335 mm rear tires, you don’t need to cut your floorboard up, its compatible with ShockWaves AND coilovers…and it flat works. I’m not sure how I could make it much better [but I’ll keep trying!] Score – 9

Triple Adjustable Coilovers – Our new baby! I did not understand the tangible and massive differences between a twin tube shock and a good monotube shock until we started testing with these units. The “texture” of the road simply disappears. The shocks are reliable, responsive, predictable, and repeatable. They will make your car do about anything you want it to do. The ability to adjust low speed and high speed compression is a REAL nice tuning tool, especially for a rough track. What I want to refine…right now it takes a screwdriver to adjust the low speed compression and a 17mm wrench to adjust high speed compression. We’ve already developed knobs to replace this situation so no tools are needed. Score – 9 [10 when the knobs come online]

Forgeline Wheels – This is definitely an area where you get what you pay for. The Forgelines are not a cheap wheel. BUT…they do not leak, they are round AND in balance, the finish is perfect, they are light as hell, they do not bend, and they were delivered in about 3 weeks. Score - 9

BFG Tires – Here is what I really like about the BFG KDW series tires…they work well in the dry or the wet [meaning you don’t have to stress if you get caught in the rain], they wear nicely, and they are VERY forgiving and predictable on the track. Some tires are really great…all the way up to the point that you are backwards. With the BFG’s…they squeal, squall, bark, and howl WAY before they actually give up traction. Very comforting if you don’t have the benefit of years of racing experience under your belt. Score - 9

Ricks Stainless Tanks – I’m on the second iteration of gas tank from Ricks. The first one had 2 issues. First, the car would starve for fuel in a LONG lateral G situation with less than ½ tank of fuel. By long, I’m talking about a 5-10 second sustained 1G plus lateral load. This is a situation that 98% of you will never find yourself in. Think the carousel at Road America at 100mph. Even the healthiest of autocross action would not make the car starve, but the extended lateral g load would. So a refinement was in order. Before we could make that refinement I experienced a failure with the Aeromotive fuel pump while on the starting line at the Sandhills Open Road Challenge in Nebraska. Obviously I was pretty damn disappointed, but I do realize that any mechanical device can fail. It just happens.
So while we were refining the fuel tank situation, I discussed with Rick the feasibility of building this new tank in aluminum to reduce the weight. What ended up with was a new aluminum tank that incorporated the newest twin scavenge pickups from Vaporworx, and a GM fuel pump module from a Cadillac CTS V. The new tank is about 35lbs lighter, the fuel pump is dead quiet, and I have run that sustained lateral G loading with under 2 gallons of gas in the car. Yeah, it’s fixed. Score for the old system – 5. Score for the new system – 10

So, what's next for the Camaro? Well...tomorrow we load it up and head for Las Vegas and the SEMA show and the Optima Ultimate Street Car Invitational. After that we'll be doing the last 3 Goodguys shows on the West Coast...Pleasanton, Scottsdale, and Del Mar. Yes, the Camaro will be there, yes we will be running hte autocross at Pleasanton and Del Mar.
After that...a long deseved break for the car...and for me!

[NOT A TA]

Excellent post! Thanks for taking the time to write that Bret.

[RS_Customs]

Nice write up review Bret! Have fun out at optima and the GG stuff.

Robert

[John Wright]

^^I agree, great write up....I enjoyed reading every word of that....Thanks for putting forth the effort Bret.

[MattG]

I second that!
^^I agree, great write up....I enjoyed reading every word of that....Thanks for putting forth the effort Bret.

[CarlC]

Brett,

It's good to hear that the new fuel system is working well. I thought you had the Gen5 Camaro pump in that car?

If you get a chance let's talk at the Pro-Touring dinner. I have a few new gizmos that will be introduced that you might be interested in.

[brownz]

I second that!

Third this, I think you just sold me on some parts!!!

[Flash68]

Very nice update. Love it when that happens. Many just finish a big build and you rarely hear from them again. Thanks for the great level of detail. I look fwd to seeing this car at Pleasanton.

[tommycomfort]

Excellent update. It took me a while to read, so I'm sure it took some serious time to write. Appreciated!

[Yelcamino]

I couldn't agree more with what's been said already, great post and thanks for being objective with your opinions! Being able to read the facts from your experience will help the rest of us when it comes time to purchase parts!

[bret]

Brett,

It's good to hear that the new fuel system is working well. I thought you had the Gen5 Camaro pump in that car?

If you get a chance let's talk at the Pro-Touring dinner. I have a few new gizmos that will be introduced that you might be interested in.

Carl, you might be right...I need to verify that with Hector or Rick.

Also wanted to clarify...it's still a Ricks Stainless tank in the car, even though they built it out of aluminum. I'm trying to convince them they need to offer those tanks in aluminum to save weight:) They have been most accomodating and build a beautiful product. I've attempted to build my own tanks before...that is why I truly appreciate the effort that goes into creating a fuel container that will deliver fuel in a sustained 1g plus environment.
It LOOKS easy...

[sales@jcg]

Bret,
Great Update, great looking car! I still remember seeing that unmolested gem they day you bought her... I think We may do something Ridetech inspired soon and also do something for the guys on the board... See you next week in Vegas!
-Jon

[compos mentis]

Welcome info and perspective Bret ... after the build and after a lot of thrashing.

[bret]

Just talked to Hector at Ricks Stainless Tanks...the fuel pump module is indeed a Gen 5 Camaro unit like Carl said, not the CTS V unit that I had mistakenly indicated above. Either way...it works great! The only down side is that now I have to pay closer attention to the fuel gauge. Before I could tell when I was down to 2-3 gallons...the car would want to starve a little:) Leave it to me to find somthing to complain about!

For all you guys going to SEMA...the 48 Hour Camaro will be out in front of the main entrance for most of the week. It will also appear at he ARMO banquet on Tuesday night [in case you go looking for it on Tuesday afternoon...]. I'll be around the car or around the RideTech booth to answer any questions about hte car or about suspension stuff.

We will also be in the Optima race on that Saturday. They are allowing spectators this year. It is definatly worth your time to come to Pahrump to see the event in person!

[bishir]

I"m new to this site, but I watched the build too and chatted most of the way. It was fun to build vicariously though you guys. Ya'll basically did everything I want to do to my Chevelle, but can't afford yet. ;)

[ccm399]

Thank you for that write up. Very informative and honest. Can't wait to call you guys to order some of those triple adjustable shocks for my Firebird!

Chris

Bret you have E-mail by the way... Talk to you after SEMA.

[bret]

Well, it's been a few months since I've posted anything significant on the 48 Hour Camaro. Lots of reasons for that...wintertime...busy building/shipping product...building a new 33 Ford project...
But one of the main reasons I've not posted anything since last fall is because...the car didn't need any work! Yes, we went through a little spat of transmission problems last summer...and an extremely untimely fuel pump failure in Nebraska, but after the Optima race after SEMA last year, there was no large punch list of items to redo or fix.

Having said that, Mike Copeland from Lingenfelter calls me on January 4. He says "me and Ken think you need more horsepower." I said "I was thinking that very same thing just now!" They want us to try out their new 417 cu.in LS package in the Camaro.
We had just had the discussion at the shop that the engine ran so well that there was absolutely no need to freshen it up. BUT, what hotrodder can ignore the lure of more horsepower? So we snatch the engine out of the car, send it to Lingenfelter, and have them turn it into a 417 package. One saving grace of changing the engine was that we found the clutch to be toast. Not sure why, but I don't think it would have lasted another 4-5 races.
I've been wanting to try out one of the new Centerforce Dyad clutches ever since I saw the first one being built last winter for Jimi Day's AMX. This thing is absolute artwork! The design, the machining, the lightening holes...looks like a million bucks.
We got the engine back from Lingenfelter around April 1. In it goes with the new Dyad clutch in front of the American Powertrain T56 Magnum [that we had changed over to late last summer].
It starts and runs like clockwork. The 417 is about 50 cu.in larger than the original one, but the Holley EFI did a nice job of accommodating the difference. After driving around town a little bit we drove down to Holley [about 2 hours] to put it on their chassis dyno for some power tuning.
The old engine made 469 hp and 451 torque. The new 417 makes 488 hp and 491 torque! AND...it's making 400 lb ft of torque as low as 3000 rpm. THAT is what the buttometer feels! This thing now pulls much stronger off the corners and makes downshifting much less necessary.
Oh, yes, the clutch...it works at least as well as it looks. Smooth, linear, quiet, and able to handle much more than the 580-600 hp it is currently managing. Its is at least as nice as the clutch in my CTS V, and much superior to the one in our 2010 Camaro. The end result of this increase in hp and torque, and the new Dyad clutch, is that the 48 Hour Camaro is about as good a package as I can imagine a Camaro to be. I was making a mental list of items to fix/change on my drive to Bowling Green. I was reduced to thinking of the following items:

* add a couple of Kicker midrange speakers - stereo is too "tinny"
* find a better holder for my iphone so I don't have to chase it all over the car
* somebody lost the cigarette lighter
* there is a little annoying squeak in the rearend - don't know if its the suspension or the cage, or something else
* The car is now so refined that the exhaust seems a little...loud. I may try some more/other mufflers
* The fixed back Recaros are fine for the track, but I've got to find something more appropriately sized for my butt.
* I need a drink holder on the console

That's it. I could not think of anything else to change. I would put my wife in that car and point her towards California in a heartbeat. [I would have to install seat heaters first:). It is smooth, reasonably quiet, the ride quality is better than Sharons 750 BMW, and the power and handling is better than my Z06 Corvette.

Since we've basically run out of ideas to improve this Camaro...we are building a 69 Camaro just like it for Marc Meadors from Goodguys this summer. Look for the build thread to start on it in a couple of weeks!

[andrewb70]

Great update Bret!

Hope to see you and the Camaro at some events this year.

Andrew

[jturkey69]

Awesome update!...man we STILL..havent made any progress on out budget beater Cutlass..with that said...I think you need to make some vids trying out different muffs, and let the public decide what it should sound like..lol...vids would include outside idle and rev, drive bys at cruising and cruise and punch...and lastly interior....only because you said it doesnt need anything, and you have time;)..lol

[bret]

Time for another 48 Hour Camaro update!

I think this car is living proof that EVERY hotrod gets a little better with age. You learn what the car likes, how it turns, how it stops, what makes it go fast. You make small changes to make it perform better and hope that at least half of them are successful!

It has been a great summer so far for RideTech and the 48 Hour Camaro. Most of the basic components are unchanged and working nicely...the Vintage Air is still ice cold, the Moser rearend is perfect, the Ricks/Vaporworx tank performs flawlessly, and the Baer brakes are incredible. Oh, the RideTech stuff...yeah, it works OK too:)
So, what did we change and why is the car so much faster? In no particular order:

* Tune up - After some discussion with Lingenfelter, we changed over to the GM EFI ECU. This is the ECU that Lingenfelter has the most experience and success with. We spent nearly a whole day on the Lingenfelter chassis dyno tweaking and refining, resulting is 502RWHP and 496 RWTQ. Beyond that, the torque as low as 2000rpm was well above 400 lb/ft. It's now got as much grunt as my CTS V! It feels like a new car in ways that I cannot describe...smooth, linear, just ready to be leaned on! Definately the best engine I've ever had.

* trans rebuild - we noticed at the Midwest Musclecar Challenge that the trans was scratching going into second, so we opened it up to see if there were any problems. Nothing terrible, but while we were in there we replaced the blocking rings adn upgraded to bronze shift forks. We also replaced second gear because it was just a little chewed up adn changed over to ATF instead of teh gear oil that we were instructed to put in it at first. Day and night difference! NOW you can really shift the thing!

* Centerforce DYAD clutch - this thing looks like a piece of artwork...the design, the machining, even to packaging nad installation instructions are just...beautiful. AND...it flat works. Never slips, easy pedal, linear engagement...I'm not sure how you would improve on this piece!

* Hawk Blue brake pads - The Baer system cannot be beat, but since we are running without a power booster we wanted to get some more agressive pads for the upcoming roadcourse events. Glad we did...they work awesome!

* Tires - We tried out a set of the Falken 615k Azenis tires on our California Camaro this past spring. I was so impressed that I ordered another set for the 48 Hour Camaro. I could go on and on, but here is the bottom line: 2.5 second faster on a 35 second lap compared to our old setup. That is not a misprint. TWO AND A HALF SECONDS. That is beyond epic. I was HOPING for .5 seconds.

* Shock tuning - now that we have some grippier tires we've had to go back and retune the shock settings. Fortunately our TA's have enough range that this did not require any hardware changes, just some knob turning.

And the result of all these refinements and changes? Well, at the Battle at the Banks event in early May we were nearly 3 seconds slower than Danny Popp driving the Lingenfelter L28 Gen 5 Camaro. Last weekend at the Optima Race at Road America...we won the autocross segment by 3/10ths over that same car and driver. And all this with a sock subframe Camaro with no subframe connectors!
And were not done yet. Look for us at Des Moines this weekend, Columbus on July 6-9 and then the Motorstate Challenge on July 14-15.

[eric1967]

Thanks for the update Bret. I will be at Des Moines may have to ride shotgun. Thanks Eric

[bret]

Our Director of Engineering, Britt Marolf will be driving in Des Moines. While not as entertaining as I, he is a bit faster:)

[TheJDMan]

I did not realize you are not running subframe connectors. Are you going to be installing them in the future?

[bret]

Doesn't need them...the Tigercage does a better job of resisting torsional stress.

[72nova]

Are you going to be at LSFest. I would love to see the car.

[bret]

Yes, we will be at the LS Fest. Come over and take a ride!

[brownz]

are rides welcome?? lol