Need a good solder gun and a source for the various connectors for a 68 Camaro.

[Rileys68Camaro]

I have an 18 Circuit Painless kit, and it will work well for me the little I've messed with it.

However, I will need a few connectors as some were lost over the last decade. I'd like to just buy a set if I can, rather than in ones and twos. I'm not sure what I have, though it will be a bit before I need them. I have the big stuff like the headlight and ignition switch but may need the smaller light connectors other than the headlights.

Also, I need a better solder gun I think. I'm making a wire harness for my gauges and the solder iron I have just doesn't seem to transfer heat very well. I may use a gauge wiring harness if it will work. 2 5" Autometer and 4 of the smaller gauges.

Using the Power Up Kit from M.A.D. and the Klien Crimpers and I'll be using circuit breakers rather than fusible links if anyone has some advice on that. Battery in the trunk, remote solenoid.

[parsonsj]

Thomas, I'd recommend a butane soldering gun. Lots of heat, plus no worries about a power cord when you're lying on your back under the dash. Craftsman has a nice one. Get some extra butane refills, and you'll be good for hours and hours of soldering.

[Rileys68Camaro]

Didn't think of that, even though I just saw an electrician/radio guy use one. Probably work for shrink tube at a low setting or further away.

[Six_Shooter]

I have not liked ANY of the butane soldering irons I have ever tried, and I've tried a few over the years.

For a soldering gun, I use strictly Weller 100/140W soldering guns. I have use larger, but they just became awkward and didn't fit into some spaces I needed to get them into, I rarely needed the extra power either.

On my bench I have an off-shore adjustable soldering iron, that IIRC is a 90W model. It has digital displays for both heat setting an actual heat.

[ErikLS2]

Snap-On makes a nice butane one and it includes a nozzle to use as a heat gun for shrink tubing. Why soldering though? Not trying to start a big debate but a properly done crimped connection is superior.

[parsonsj]

Not trying to start a big debate but a properly done crimped connection is superior.True. I solder connections I can't properly crimp, like battery terminal connections. But chicane67 just pointed out a tool that I will likely own soon for just that:

http://www.build.com/greenlee-k09-2spgl-k-series-crimping-tool-8-4-0-awg-w-full-cycle-mechanism/p611743

[CarlC]

Tom does have a nasty habit of finding ways for me to spend money.

[Six_Shooter]

Snap-On makes a nice butane one and it includes a nozzle to use as a heat gun for shrink tubing. Why soldering though? Not trying to start a big debate but a properly done crimped connection is superior.

I have heard people say this with no proof, where as there is proof time and time again that a soldered connection is FAR superior to a crimped connection. A soldered connection seals the connection from moisture, and not only mechanically connects the wire, but chemically as well.

I have never had a soldered connection corrode or fail, but I have had properly crimped connections fatigue and fail, even without corrosion.

Also emplore you to find any connection on a mass produced vehicle that is crimped, and not soldered. If anything you will find a combination of both crimped and soldered.

[parsonsj]

Crimping is preferred by nearly all manufacturers. It is easier to specify: wire gauge, connecter ID, material, tooling, and pressure are all easier to measure and ensure repeatability. You can set up crimping procedures and workstation setups for OEM, and repair procedures for field repair. Properly done, a crimped joint is as strong as if the material was welded together.

Soldering, on the other hand, is difficult to specify in terms of heat, amount of solder, solder flow, etc. Soldering requires more skill to do, and isn't something that can be easily specified for OEM procedures. Soldering also changes the material itself by making the wire feeding the joint stiffer -- it defeats the flexibility advantages of multi-strand wire near the joint. That stiffness can lead to failure down the road due to work hardening of the joint.

If you want to read more by somebody other than me, check this post out with respect to marine wiring techniques:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=65736&page=1

[ErikLS2]

I can't provide physical proof but I read an article in an auto repair trade magazine some time ago that published a test that Bosch did where they ran a current through two separate wires while they hung a heavy weight from it (a car batt if I recall). One wire had soldered connections and one wire had crimped (properly) connections and the soldered wire failed first every time. Not a scientific test I know but you asked.

Also, any modern day car wire harness uses only crimped connections, no solder anywhere other than on printed circuit boards. My 05 GTO engine harness that I modified had no solder joints anywhere, they were all crimped and insulated. If you know of one that uses solder I'd be curious to know what it came out of. Ever notice how stiff a wire becomes after you've soldered it? Not ideal if it's going to be subjected to any type of vibration.

And I didn't want to start a big debate. :banghead:

[jknight16]

There's not much to debate. The OEM's (my experience is with BMW) do not prescribe soldering in their service repairs due to the issues John described. I've been soldering where I can on my project and not sweating it when I can't.

[parsonsj]

In terms of finding a joint on mass produced vehicles that is only crimped: have a look at Metri-Pack joints in use in late model GM vehicles.

They aren't soldered.

[ErikLS2]

The reason crimped connections get a bad rap is because of how they are usually done. They should be done with a non insulated connector and a tool like this one:

http://www.idealindustries.com/prodDetail.do?prodId=35-5431&div=3&l1=crimp_tools&l2=wm_9-3-4_multi-crimp_tool

Once crimped some type of insulation should be applied, like heat shrink tubing. Those quickie insulated crimp connectors aren't ideal.

[chicane67]

I'm a fan of my Weller WPA2, butane iron. Instant start, instant heat... but then again, I also LOVE my WESD51.

The butane iron is great for quick work or light 'in the field jobs'... but there's nothing like having the adjustablility and temperature control of a good wired unit. Especially when dealing with multiple size conductors (wires or contacts.) Temperature is the secret to soldering correctly... right after the obvious... cleanliness.

Yes, I prefer crimping... yet, soldering an electrical connection does have its place. The biggest deal is... soldering it correctly... and THAT is a skill earned, just like tig welding, in my opinion. Take the NASA certification test... and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.

On small gauge and/or low amperage connections, I use a non insulated 'butt-splice' which I crimp, then I lightly "tin" the connection, wash it with denatured alchol... and then finally, I triple heat shrink the connection. Yes... it sounds like a pains taking process... but I personally don't like electrical gremlins. And, with so little wiring on my own chassis build requiring such a connection... I chose to do those few connections with the butane iron... and it wasn't a big deal.

The arguement(s) of soldered connections are plentiful. But honestly, if you pay attention to the American Wire Gauge Current Limit Guideline (linky (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm)) for the specific wire size (which you would most likely be AMAZED at what the limits are, even for 2/0 cable)... you can build in an "engineered" safety factor as far as current loading is concerned. The example of hanging a battery from a cable with a current load, and it failing... is an excellent example of improper wire sizing for the given circuit. However, there are other variable's to failures of such description. The most notable... being contamination within the connection itself.

[parsonsj]

On small gauge and/or low amperage connections, I use a non insulated 'butt-splice' which I crimp, then I lightly "tin" the connection, wash it with denatured alchol... and then finally, I triple heat shrink the connection. Yes... it sounds like a pains taking process... but I personally don't like electrical gremlins. And, with so little wiring on my own chassis build requiring such a connection... I chose to do those few connections with the butane iron... and it wasn't a big deal.I also use non-insulated butt connectors when I have to lengthen a wire, though my first and foremost preference is to not ever butt join wires. Connector to connector. But when I have to, I use the non-insulated joints (properly sized, of course), with Klein crimper, then double heat shrink over the joint. I also try and ensure the butt joints don't ever hang with their own weight, so I secure them with Adel clamps, or, if I have to, zip ties.

I'm almost as anal as you. :) I consider it anal enough.

[chicane67]

Ahhh... another excellent topic. Strain relief and fastening the harness properly.

Yeah... I hear ya JP. My first choice is to use a single run and not to splice... but when you are using "someone's" product... sometimes you don't have that option without taking the whole thing apart and starting that single run all over.

[Rod]

I have an 18 Circuit Painless kit, and it will work well for me the little I've messed with it.

However, I will need a few connectors as some were lost over the last decade. I'd like to just buy a set if I can, rather than in ones and twos. I'm not sure what I have, though it will be a bit before I need them. I have the big stuff like the headlight and ignition switch but may need the smaller light connectors other than the headlights.



your going to have a hard time sourcing some of the connectors the company American Autowire has rights to and manufactures many of those GM connectors and they come on the wiring kits, and they don't sell many of the connectors separately, I would look at there web site, along with Steves Camaro Parts, look through the classic industries catalog also

good luck

[1970 TT Rustang]

back to the soldering gun i know heat is vital. ive been also looking around and ive been only finding guns with 2 heats 900f being the lowest setting. Do you think this would be too much for sodering to copper or tin coated wire?

[chicane67]

It depends on the tip that you are using... and the conductor you are soldering. A larger conductor will absorb more heat, which will require more initial heat for the flux and solder to flow correctly. The worst thing in the soldering world... is a cold solder joint. So you dont want to be any where near the cold side. I'd rather have too much heat and control it with finesse'. It's very much like welding... you are just controlling the heat to get the job done. If you have too much heat, you can still make that work by applying it in shorter intervals... however, you will also need to work faster with solder application so that it doesnt cool off too soon.

For something like a 12-16 AWG wire size (most common in automotive electrical harnesses) I like a 1/4" broad blade tip and about 750-800*F. I call it quick and dirty... as you dont want to apply the heat too long, as you will most likely end up damaging the insulation... or even worse, the solder will flow up the wire beyond what is necessary to make the solder joint mechanically sound.

Also, I am not a real big fan of solder "guns." The ability to control an 'iron' is much easier and I feel much easier to do more precision work when working with smaller conductors/contacts/circuit boards etc.

[Six_Shooter]

In a vehicle, or when just working on wire harnesses in general, I use my Weller soldering gun(s). I use my soldering iron when working on circuit boards and small electronics.

[1969CamaroRS]

For a soldering gun, I use strictly Weller 100/140W soldering guns.

I have had pretty good luck with the my Weller 100/140W very nice gun, heats up fast and isn't too big.

[1970 TT Rustang]

I have had pretty good luck with the my Weller 100/140W very nice gun, heats up fast and isn't too big.
I was also looking at the weller 100/140w gun its the smallest i found with the lowest setting being 900f, have you seen any down side of the weller. What kind of soder/company have you all haveing the best luck with?

[shep]

Weller is one of the best out there

[1969CamaroRS]

I was also looking at the weller 100/140w gun its the smallest i found with the lowest setting being 900f, have you seen any down side of the weller. What kind of soder/company have you all haveing the best luck with?

I have been using some .032 rosin core solder, dunno if there is a better choice out there but works good for me. I like the thin stuff I can use less when needed.

[MonzaRacer]

As for me as a Master Tech i have developed my technique and even had some mil-spec testing done to the connections I do back when my dad was still working at Government base .
I am fairly picky in my work and when I repair wiring I usually crimp and solder. My soldering tools have been my old Snap on/Weller unit, I have a YAKS32 but it has a cylinder leak, I had another one , iron only to go in that kit but when sending it back to company(not sure of who made/repaired it) my Snap on dealer got ripped off, BUT for replacing a $79 soldering arm I got a $99 set of 37 degree flaring dies for my Master Cool hydraulic flaring tool. So as for all of my work in the last 7 or 8 years has been a Power Probe PPSK, I am on my second one. first one got cranky and wouldnt start (striker was getting weak and had a crack in part of it ) so I got another, but guy in shop knocked it off of tool box and broke it, so after trying to glue it I figured out how to disassemble it and pulled parts from my other one and fixed the new one. Later on Ill come across enough parts to fix the old one as its striker completely quit but it was like 7 yr old.
As for crimping or soldering, Ido both, I have a set of quick release ratcheting crimps that will do just about anything.
I believe they were S&G Tool Aid. Good company, had the quick release parts break and they sent me new parts.
But I disagree after 25+ yrs of working on cars an I have seen more than my share of bad connections in cars. Reason why they fail,,,mass production. While the majority have no issues till lat in life I have had to diagnose so many bad connection, broke wires cause auto feeders will leave a loop in harness and a hole mess of other issues that required repair. AND on top of it all the day a PROPERLY DONE hand crimp that is soldered also is worse than a mass produce machine crimp Ill quit.
I do wiring repairs nearly dailt if not at least weekly and guess whos work is searched out over the guys who just crimp and go. Me!
I crimp, solder, shrink tube or liquid tape or take and guard the work. So far havent had any issues. Heck I have rewired messed up cars and had my work hold up to cars being rear ended. Wires failed, but not my repairs.