What Shifter works best for a 6L90e/6L80e?

[Bobs 67Camaro]

I am putting a 6L90e in my 67 camaro, and was wondering if anyone had shifter recommendations? I am using Twistmachine's Paddles/torque converter, and have been told that the G6 Tap up/down shifter works OK. I have also been told that Shiftworks has a retro system which works, but will not have a Tap up/down feature.

Any experience with these? I spoke with Hurst, and they will not have anything available for at least 6-8 months.

Thanks,
Bob

[Poorhousenext]

I am putting a 6L90e in my 67 camaro, and was wondering if anyone had shifter recommendations? I am using Twistmachine's Paddles/torque converter, and have been told that the G6 Tap up/down shifter works OK. I have also been told that Shiftworks has a retro system which works, but will not have a Tap up/down feature.

Any experience with these? I spoke with Hurst, and they will not have anything available for at least 6-8 months.

Thanks,
Bob

Bob,

I'm some what lost as to why with paddle shifters you would want or need a shifter that has Tap Up/ Tap shifting provisions.

When I started my 6L80E project, back in 2007, no one had verified aftermarket paddles would work, so I started looking at GM cars that had TU/TD shifters in them. Then found out in a conversion that these shifters needed to be modified to work in conversion.

You have the best way to manual shift 6L80E now. TU/TD manual shifting does not feel natural. I'm on my 2nd car that came with a 6 speed with TU/TD shifting. 1st car, I tried it once then never fooled with it again, found it's sport mode could handle the shifting better than I could.

On the new car I just purchased which does not have sport mode, I've played with TD mode for engine breaking only. Again it up shifts and down shifts to keep the engine in it's power band better than I can. This is not like driving a manual stick car at all.

Drag racing, you'll probably want be using the paddles you have. TCM can out shift you and you have one less thing to think about. It's competitions where you need to make the decision when it's best to down shift and up shift to use engine to help with braking and keep engine in it's power band to power out. Neither the TCM or ECM can see the road ahead and know when to start the shifts as they shift based on engine parameter inputs to them.

You will find you can shift faster and have to think less about doing it with those paddles than with any TU/TD floor shifter too.

For what it's worth, the G8 EXP 6L80e TU/TD shifter in my 6L80E car had to be modified to work, as it's different from how same shifter is wired to work in it's stock application.

My other conversion with a different 6 speed automatic, which I consider a Pro Touring car, I went with paddles rather than outlaw floor shifter with buttons built in to manual shift it. Lets me keep stock look floor console in car and the paddles look a lot cooler if someone notices them....LOL

[Addicted]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I did not think that there was "engine braking" available, yet? in the 6l80e's?

[Poorhousenext]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, I did not think that there was "engine braking" available, yet? in the 6l80e's?

It's the other 6 speed, TCI 6X that doesn't support engine breaking, per TCI both over the phone couple of months ago and then in person last Friday at NSRA show in Knoxville they told me, it had limited 6th to 5th, but from that point on none, so as far as they are concerned 6X has no engine braking, and they are not working on trying to provided it at this time.

I hope to have car with it up and running by GoodGuys show in Columbus, OH in July, so I'll know for sure if it does are doesn't before then. As soon as it's finish, I'm going to try and get my other car with 6L80E finished.

There is one transmission builder that says his 4L80E based 6 speed will support engine braking when it is released. There may be another builder working on 4L80E based 6 speed too that may are may not have it.

6L80E Overview from GM performance web site.

Product Highlights

Electronically controlled rear-drive/all-wheel-drive transmission
Part of GM’s modular family of fuel-saving six-speed automatics
Wide 6.04:1 gear spread optimizes performance and fuel economy
Maximum engine torque rating of 439 lb.-ft. (535 Nm)
Maximum gearbox torque rating of 664 lb.-ft. (900 Nm)


The Hydra-Matic 6L80 (MYC) six-speed automatic transmission for rear- and all-wheel-drive vehicles is part of GM’s family of fuel-saving, electronically controlled six-speed automatics. It is used in a wide range of 5.3L and 6.2L V-8-powered vehicles, including:

Cadillac Escalade / Escalade ESV / Escalade EXT
Chevrolet Avalanche
Chevrolet Camaro SS
Chevrolet Corvette / Corvette Grand Sport
Chevrolet Silverado
Chevrolet Suburban
Chevrolet Tahoe
GMC Sierra / Sierra Denali
GMC Yukon Denali / Yukon XL Denali


The modular design of the 6L80 is shared with variants rated for different torque levels to accommodate various engines and vehicle applications, including the 6L45 (MYA), 6L50 (MYB) and 6L90 (MYD). All versions share a unique output gearset configuration that enables a wider range of ratios than a conventional planetary gearset automatic transmission. That allows the transmission to be tailored for optimal fuel economy while delivering excellent acceleration traits.



The wide overall ratio spread of 6.04:1 allows a “steep” first gear, as well as a very “tall” overdrive top gear for low-rpm highway cruising. Acceleration is maximized, as is fuel economy. Engine noise is also lower during cruising. Both fifth and sixth gears are “overdrive” gears, for example.



Modular Design

The modular concept of the Hydra-Matic 6L80 centers on the desire for common components and manufacturing tooling for four different size variants of the six-speed family. All versions use three gearsets: a simple input planetary gearset and two output gearsets, one of which is a compound gearset with three pairs of two pinion gears on the output carrier, one pair meshing with the sun gear and the other with the ring gear. This arrangement allows for optimal ratio steps with a 6.04:1 overall spread.



All applications feature adaptive shift controls. Several additional features such as grade braking, Performance Algorithm Shifting, and Driver Shift Control are available on some of the applications. Performance Algorithm Shifting (PAS) detects when the vehicles are being driven in a spirited fashion and remains in its current gear ratio even when the driver lifts a foot off the accelerator pedal. PAS monitors how assertively the driver is using engine output to determine at what engine speed to upshift or downshift. Driver Shift Control allows the driver to shift the transmission like a clutchless manual gearbox. Electronic safeguards prevent over-revving should the wrong gear position be accidentally selected.



Gear changes from second to sixth gear ratios are accomplished with clutch-to-clutch action, where an “on-coming” clutch is engaged and an “off-going” clutch is released in a precise manner to achieve the ratio change. The first-to-second upshift, however, is a freewheeling action, where the second gear clutch engages while the first gear one-way clutch spins freely. This allows a greater degree of smoothness at lower vehicle speeds. The manner in which each gear is selected in the 6L80 is optimized for best performance.



Control System

Advances in transmission control modules allow them to exist reliably inside the transmission, where temperatures remain fairly constant compared to a body-mounted module. The transmission and module are assembled together, so no additional steps are necessary during vehicle assembly.



The 6L80’s 32-bit transmission control module (TCM) monitors transmission performance and compensates for normal wear in components such as clutch plates, so transmission performance remains consistent for the life of the transmission. The control module also "tests" the components of the transmission following assembly to optimize the interaction of the components. The module strategy, developed by GM, is compatible with future global applications.



There are two torque converter sizes, 258 mm and 300 mm. The 258-mm applications use a twin-plate torque converter lockup clutch, while the 300-mm applications use a single-plate torque converter lock-up clutch. Both types of clutches make use of GM's proprietary electronic controlled capacity clutch (ECCC) technology, which uses a small, regulated amount of slip to dampen out engine pulses. This creates a smoother running drivetrain, especially during shift events.



Low Maintenance

The 6L80 uses DEXRON VI premium fluid, validated to improve durability and shift stability over the life of the transmission. DEXRON VI was developed to have a more consistent viscosity profile; a more consistent shift performance in extreme conditions; and less degradation over time.

[Bobs 67Camaro]

Jere,

What do you recommend for a shifter? I do not require a TU TD, but thought it would be an easier install. I also assumed the gates would be the same.

I would prefer a more stock look (as you mentioned earlier, it be fun watching people figure it out). I do like shiftworks shifter, but do not know if their floor shifter will work with my 6L90e. My car was originally a column shift, and I still have the stock column. (it would be odd, but I could re-install a column shift!)

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thank you,
Bobby

[Poorhousenext]

Jere,

What do you recommend for a shifter? I do not require a TU TD, but thought it would be an easier install. I also assumed the gates would be the same.

I would prefer a more stock look (as you mentioned earlier, it be fun watching people figure it out). I do like shiftworks shifter, but do not know if their floor shifter will work with my 6L90e. My car was originally a column shift, and I still have the stock column. (it would be odd, but I could re-install a column shift!)

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thank you,
Bobby

Bobby,

To me it boils down to what look you want. Because I'm not up on 1st gen interiors, I did a search to see what they looked like with stock column or bucket seats and console with floor shifter.

Since you have a column shift, can I assume you don't have bucket seats, but bench seat, that may are may not have back(s) that give bucket seat look to back, similar to below picture?

When I think of having column shifter with paddles, it makes me wonder what the paddle to shift lever clearance would be, along with how much out of place it might make the paddles look if you go that way.

If you have bench seat, will raising the top of tunnel cause a problem with bench seat fitting across it? What would your plan be for just closing in area around the shifter?

If you have bucket seat already or going to convert to bucket seats, looks like the easy way out is using a stock console fitted to raised tunnel.

You can use a shiftworks 67 Camaro shifter, or maybe even stock one. The shiftworks one, looks to be an easy mod should you need to change/modify the gate spacing between positions, shift arms, or slide it over more toward driver side if needed due to 6L90 size at rear of it.

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[Bobs 67Camaro]

Thank you for the advice Jere!

I do have bucket seats, and prefer the look of the floor shifter (I currently do not have a console, but would like one in the future--when the budget permits).

I believe I will go with the shiftworks floor shifter, but was not sure if it would be easy to use (I assumed the G6 would have proper shift gates, but it sounds like you had to modify yours anyhow).

Do you prefer the function of one over the other? The shift works shifter is $350, while a junk yard G6 shifter is 45.....

Thanks again,

[Poorhousenext]

Thank you for the advice Jere!

Do you prefer the function of one over the other? The shift works shifter is $350, while a junk yard G6 shifter is 45.....

Thanks again,

Bobby,

I prefer the one that looks best to you in the car. The reason I had to build that tall console in my 66 was just to cover the G8 shifter which is tall. I believe the G6 is tall too. I know all the Caddy shifters are same height as the G8's.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/P4190117Small-1.jpg

So If you don't mind the look of shifter sitting way above the top of console, unless you build a platform for console to fit on to raise it up to match it will work.

What can you pick up a stock 67 shifter for? It should work as is or you should be able to modify it to work too? 67s came with Power Glides if I remember correctly. It's not like trying to go from a 2 sp to a 3 or 4 sp auto, where you have more positrons. You only need to be able to shift, P,N,R,D.

What you don't want to do is to go with something you don't like to look of, cause it will alway bug you. I'm going back now an changing things on my 64 project because I couldn't see the bigger picture of what I was doing the first time around.

I would advise making at least a cardboard layout of the stock 67 console so you can make sure shifter opening will fit over shifter if you plan on installing one later on. If you can find a beat up one cheap, that would be even better as you can mod trans tunnel to fit console you want to install later on, and know everything will line up and fit when you do go to install it.

[Bobs 67Camaro]

Jere,
I have narrowed the search to a shiftworks shifter and a Lokar Floor shifter with a cable.

It seems as though a cable shifter will be easier with the 6L80e. It adapts better to the confined spaces of the 67 tunnel, and the location of the shifter. (the top of the 6L80e nearly touches the bottom of the tunnel--and my motor is very low relative to the frame--which notes I have maximized my usable space).

The shiftworks shifter ranges form $300-350, plus $75 for the cable (in lieu of the rod linkage).
The Lokar floor shifter w/cable is $290. (@ Summit)


The shiftworks shifter functions very similar to a factory shifter. It has its' own gate/detent profile, which can be removed and possibly modified if needed- to match that of the 6L80e.

I spoke with Lokar, and their push-pull cable uses the detents of the tranny itself. The Lokar shifter has a push button lock which must be depressed to move in/out of park, and into reverse. Beyond that, the Lokar shifter is positioned by the detents on the rooster comb of the 6L80e. I believe this will work well with the 6L80e. You can also order one which is intended for the 700R4. (so you'd have Overdrive, drive, 2 and 1).

I have also called B & M/Hurst, and TCI. Neither of the firms provides shifters for the 6L's....yet.

I am currently leaning towards the Lokar shifter now. It is more affordable, and it will look better without a consule. It also appears that less modification will be needed to match the shift gates!

[Poorhousenext]

Jere,
I have narrowed the search to a shiftworks shifter and a Lokar Floor shifter with a cable.

It seems as though a cable shifter will be easier with the 6L80e. It adapts better to the confined spaces of the 67 tunnel, and the location of the shifter. (the top of the 6L80e nearly touches the bottom of the tunnel--and my motor is very low relative to the frame--which notes I have maximized my usable space).

The shiftworks shifter ranges form $300-350, plus $75 for the cable (in lieu of the rod linkage).
The Lokar floor shifter w/cable is $290. (@ Summit)


The shiftworks shifter functions very similar to a factory shifter. It has its' own gate/detent profile, which can be removed and possibly modified if needed- to match that of the 6L80e.

I spoke with Lokar, and their push-pull cable uses the detents of the tranny itself. The Lokar shifter has a push button lock which must be depressed to move in/out of park, and into reverse. Beyond that, the Lokar shifter is positioned by the detents on the rooster comb of the 6L80e. I believe this will work well with the 6L80e. You can also order one which is intended for the 700R4. (so you'd have Overdrive, drive, 2 and 1).

I have also called B & M/Hurst, and TCI. Neither of the firms provides shifters for the 6L's....yet.

I am currently leaning towards the Lokar shifter now. It is more affordable, and it will look better without a consule. It also appears that less modification will be needed to match the shift gates!

Bobby,

See you have change transmission type from 6L90E to 6L80E. At least the Pontiac shallow pan will work without modification.

From what John Spears (Speartech) say, any shifter will work with the 6L80E. No shifter gate modifications required. I don't think you can can even select Overdrive, drive, 2 and 1. I don't think the 6L's have detents for those, including the Corvette shifter that does have a "S" Sport mode position on it's shifter. It just changes TCU internal shift program.

Am I reading your post correctly, that you are mounting the engine low so you don't have to cut the tunnel or if you do only where it touches trans mounted low?

How much ground clearance will engine oil pan have, and since the transmission pan is lower than the oil pan, how much ground clearance will it have?

Jere

[Bobs 67Camaro]

Jere,

Yes, I was told I was purchasing a 6L90e, and when I ran the numbers, I misinterpreted them (I thought I had a 6L90e, but it turns out I have a 6L80e). The G8 Pan is flush with my oil pan (Champ Pan), which is about 3/4" below my frame rails. It should match the elevation of the exhaust, and not lessen my clearance,

It worked out in a way. Jim Miller, of Zero Gravity Performance (in Phx, AZ), has a nice performance tune for a 6L80e. He was a GM Cal Engineer for 25 years, so I trust his expertise. He did not have a tune for the 6L90e, and did not know of anyone who did (I tried, and could not find anyone myself). Jim tuned my 6L80e TCM with a 2009 Corvette tune. It will work well with the paddles from Twistmachine, and my Protorque converter (Protorque was willing to exchange my 6L90e converter for a 6L80e----at no charge, I am so appreciative).

I do not know what my ground clearance will be yet (I will basically be restrained by my frame rails, minus ¾”-1”. The speedtech frame allows for fairly low placement of the motor. I also flipped the motor mounts upside down on the LS adapter plates lowering it further. The driveline is nearly parallel with the frame rails. I sure hope things work out!

I believe John @ Speartech is right. All I need is a sport mode position (paddle time). I counted the detents on my 6L80e last night, and there are 6 positions, with one additional detent which takes substantially more force to acquire (much larger hump). I do not know if this is a “stop”, or a more pronounced detent for park.

Thanks Jere!

[rickardss]

Can anyone explain how they have made a G8 / caddy shifter work with a 6l80e?

I have the TU/TD wire coming from the trans. The trans also has 12v power.

I am aware of the speartech tap shift box but thought if its achievable without buying this then that would be great.

Thanks!

[rickardss]

Seems the aftermarket options (there are several in Australia) use CAM BUS interface to control shifting. Originally BCM appears to have used several resistors as per the attached diagram.

Has anyone attempted to replicate the circuit in the attached? Make your own resistor module to enable use of an OEM shifter?

124898

[buck19]

Very informative, current forum link regarding this tap up tap down topic. Sad that this feature cannot be conquered by US programmers and harness builders without sacrificing other features. https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?48015-6l80e-with-tap-shift-no-BCM