wmhjr
04-02-2011, 06:58 PM
Just wanted to post a little info based on my experience in replacing the 12.2" Dynalite brakes with the 14" Superlite 6Rs on the front of the Pontiac.
Everything arrived (after a LONG delay from Wilwood) and I inventoried all the components/parts. It was all there. I've never installed a set of radial mount brakes before, so I was interested in how it would go. For the record, I have not finished installing. I have the drivers side done and have removed the old brakes from the passenger side. Have not done any bleeding, obviously. I read through the instructions prior to starting, and then followed the instructions implicitly with one exception (concerning loctite) for the first attempt.
Bottom line up front. If you install these brakes, read the instructions and make sure you know what you're doing - and then discard the instructions. They are incorrect. Here is the issue. You need to completely mock up the assembly (minus attaching the brake lines of course), make sure it's right - including aligning the pads with them installed in the calipers - and only then take them back apart and assemble with loctite.
All of the real instructions are on page 4 and 5 of the documents. Wilwood does a good job in laying out the parts, however they start going wrong toward the bottom of page 4 in describing whether or not to use some specific washers/shims. They clearly state only to use some if you have Heidts spindles - or in one case if the mounting surface of your spindles is not flat. Wrong. You won't realize it's wrong for a bit, however. They tell you to mock up the caliper mounting bracket to insure it fits, and then to apply red loctite and torque it all down - before you've ever installed the hub or the caliper. Two problems. First, the red loctite. Just my opinion, but personally I'm not sure red is the right answer here. I am very concerned that red will result in the top bolt not being able to be removed after installation and decided to use Blue instead. Second, there is no way you should be using loctite at this point. Here is why.
After following those instructions, you then move on to assembling the hats to the rotors, packing the bearings, installing the hubs, and then test fitting the caliper to see how much you need to shim it "out" to align the outer edge of the pad with the outer edge of the rotor. Whoops - problem. You can't get the pads in the caliper because the caliper is not centered over the rotor. How do you center the caliper on the rotor you might ask? Well, by removing the caliper, rotor, and hub, and then using shims to move the caliper mounting bracket outward from the spindle. This is when you'll be really glad you didn't use red loctite. On a 1/2-20 and 5/8-18 bolt, blue is strong enough to make you curse that Wilwood didn't think about the side to side alignment. And because the 5/8-18 bolt is a small allen head, it means you don't have much meat to apply pressure with. You'll be trying to remove a 5/8-18 bolt secured with red loctite using a very small allen bit - which will very likely break off, possibly resulting in your having to drill out the bolt and then repair the spindle. Because there isn't a good reference point to measure offsets from consistently, I found that I needed to assemble/disassemble several times to get the in/out alignment just right. There is absolutely no extra room in the caliper - just barely enough room to fit the pads and the rotor in there when it's all brand new, so with non-floating brakes, that means the alignment has to be pretty much perfect.
I did call Wilwood just to make sure I wasn't being a goof, and they were not terribly helpful and didn't seem too concerned. My guess is that most who install these look at the schematics and ignore the step by step instructions. I found it very interesting that with Dynalites Wilwood is very specific about making sure the calipers are aligned, yet they make zero reference to it with the Superlites (speaking of the inboard/outboard alignment).
Has anyone else experienced this? Anyway, I suspect this same issue would hold true with the 13" rotors as well. Just wanted to save others from making the same mistakes. I'm not complaining about the quality of the brakes. They seem pretty well done. However, the instructions are significantly flawed IMHO.
Everything arrived (after a LONG delay from Wilwood) and I inventoried all the components/parts. It was all there. I've never installed a set of radial mount brakes before, so I was interested in how it would go. For the record, I have not finished installing. I have the drivers side done and have removed the old brakes from the passenger side. Have not done any bleeding, obviously. I read through the instructions prior to starting, and then followed the instructions implicitly with one exception (concerning loctite) for the first attempt.
Bottom line up front. If you install these brakes, read the instructions and make sure you know what you're doing - and then discard the instructions. They are incorrect. Here is the issue. You need to completely mock up the assembly (minus attaching the brake lines of course), make sure it's right - including aligning the pads with them installed in the calipers - and only then take them back apart and assemble with loctite.
All of the real instructions are on page 4 and 5 of the documents. Wilwood does a good job in laying out the parts, however they start going wrong toward the bottom of page 4 in describing whether or not to use some specific washers/shims. They clearly state only to use some if you have Heidts spindles - or in one case if the mounting surface of your spindles is not flat. Wrong. You won't realize it's wrong for a bit, however. They tell you to mock up the caliper mounting bracket to insure it fits, and then to apply red loctite and torque it all down - before you've ever installed the hub or the caliper. Two problems. First, the red loctite. Just my opinion, but personally I'm not sure red is the right answer here. I am very concerned that red will result in the top bolt not being able to be removed after installation and decided to use Blue instead. Second, there is no way you should be using loctite at this point. Here is why.
After following those instructions, you then move on to assembling the hats to the rotors, packing the bearings, installing the hubs, and then test fitting the caliper to see how much you need to shim it "out" to align the outer edge of the pad with the outer edge of the rotor. Whoops - problem. You can't get the pads in the caliper because the caliper is not centered over the rotor. How do you center the caliper on the rotor you might ask? Well, by removing the caliper, rotor, and hub, and then using shims to move the caliper mounting bracket outward from the spindle. This is when you'll be really glad you didn't use red loctite. On a 1/2-20 and 5/8-18 bolt, blue is strong enough to make you curse that Wilwood didn't think about the side to side alignment. And because the 5/8-18 bolt is a small allen head, it means you don't have much meat to apply pressure with. You'll be trying to remove a 5/8-18 bolt secured with red loctite using a very small allen bit - which will very likely break off, possibly resulting in your having to drill out the bolt and then repair the spindle. Because there isn't a good reference point to measure offsets from consistently, I found that I needed to assemble/disassemble several times to get the in/out alignment just right. There is absolutely no extra room in the caliper - just barely enough room to fit the pads and the rotor in there when it's all brand new, so with non-floating brakes, that means the alignment has to be pretty much perfect.
I did call Wilwood just to make sure I wasn't being a goof, and they were not terribly helpful and didn't seem too concerned. My guess is that most who install these look at the schematics and ignore the step by step instructions. I found it very interesting that with Dynalites Wilwood is very specific about making sure the calipers are aligned, yet they make zero reference to it with the Superlites (speaking of the inboard/outboard alignment).
Has anyone else experienced this? Anyway, I suspect this same issue would hold true with the 13" rotors as well. Just wanted to save others from making the same mistakes. I'm not complaining about the quality of the brakes. They seem pretty well done. However, the instructions are significantly flawed IMHO.