PDA

View Full Version : Input on converting from pro-street to pro-touring?



Daren
04-01-2011, 02:36 PM
Fist let me define what I mean by going pro-touring. I'm looking to improve the car's driving dynamics and cornering. Here are some questions I have and would love some feedback from multiple sources. The car is a 74 Firebird formula with a racing 455 in that is getting a T/A conversion and a 73 face. Hp is roughly 600ish flywheel running a high stall torque converter.

1. Steering I'm shooting for some steering communication as the factory type power steering feels overly light and over boosted. I'm not too picky, just some vague tactile indication as to where the wheels are pointed through the steering wheel without having to convert to rack and pinion system.
a) Is there any type of, I would assume smaller, power steering booster to provide a less boosted feel to the wheel yet still provide sufficient operating pressures to the steering box?

2. Breaking The car has some sort of 4 wheel disk slotted and drilled rotor conversion on it, however no brake booster as the cam generates practically negligible vacuum pressure.
a) Is electronic vacuum generators the solution to this?
b) If so is there a preferred design or name brand?
c) The car does not have a booster however it will recieve one, so is there also a perferd make and type or is OEM spec the best option?

3. Rear end The car has an eliminator kit with spools on a GM 12 bolt with 3:90 somethings. Looking to go to a LSD true track with reduced gearing as the car only has a 3 speed auto in it. Top speed of 115mph is a bit embarrassing.
a) 3:55s sound about right?
b) Is there a "pro touring" type rear end? Something with additional suspension attachment points to tie it in? The Mosers I've been looking at seem very drag race orientated?

4. Suspension and general cornering I really haven't beat on the car hard in the corners yet due to the fear of blowing up that spooled rear end, however the car is promising on fast sweepers. It has unshakable grip in the rear, the steering ratio is very quick and being a restored car it has new bushings and the like. There are some problems. It has no sway bars. It transitions out of corners strangely, as in upon exiting the apex the car behaves as if it is a spring, releasing tension and wiggling about up front before settling down. It's not dramatic and is sort lived but it's there. Is this because it also has no cross braces, g braces and whatnot? It does have sub frame connectors. With the caltrack traction bars and stiffer leafs is there a need to run a rear sway bar? What's the fact from the fiction on suspensions and bracing? What really needs to be done to make these old cars handle better and what's just cosmetic?

5. Seats and speedometer The real stiff ride and ultra soft springy seats keep you in a constant bobing up and down motion in the seats. It's hilarious. The racing trans does not have mechanical speedometer support so the speedo is functionally dead.
a) Do racing seats such as procars provide a firmer and modern seat material?
b) I'm going to go GPS based speedo, any one use these or some other means to running a speedo?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img155.imageshack.us/i/73wallpaper1236x700.jpg/)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img600.imageshack.us/i/dsc06222h.jpg/)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img88.imageshack.us/i/dsc06217l.jpg/)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img189.imageshack.us/i/dsc06239ox.jpg/)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/dsc06240c.jpg/)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img816.imageshack.us/i/dsc06253o.jpg/)

(http://imageshack.us)

NOT A TA
04-02-2011, 06:16 PM
It's been a day with no replys so I'll take a stab at a few of your questions. You'll probably get more replys quickly in the future if you address individual issues in the appropriate sections of the forum rather than ask a lot of questions all in one thread. A little more info would help also. Things like budget, ease of modifications, goals etc. Some info about how the car will be used would also help get answers that will help you. No sense in someone telling you about killer adjustable rear suspensions if it's going to be driven to and from cruise nights and you have time or budget constraints that would prevent you from getting involved with one.

Anyway on with my answers/opinions.

1. Steering: 2nd gen birds have too much power assist and IF it has the original Formula steering box I believe it's already a quick ratio. Presuming you'll be getting wider tires for the front they require a bit more assist but the stock assist still feels like too much to me even with sticky 275 DOT R tires on my car. There are adapters that can reduce the power assist from the stock pump (can't tell if it's stock in your pic). The other option is to go with an aftermarket setup from Lee or one of the other popular setups. They can be set up to provide less assist.

2. Braking: Hydroboost is probably the most widely used way of keeping power assisted brakes with a big cam. Another alternative is switching to a manual master cylinder. Threads on both can be found in the brake section. Before doing anything you should try to figure out what you currently have front/rear so companies or individuals can make recommendations.

3. Rear end: Depending how the car will be used you might be better off to sell the current rear to a drag racer and just get a new rear. Lots of options then and choices will depend on the intended use of the car and suspension, tire/wheel choices. Gears will depend on tire height, cam, and whether you keep the current trans.

4. Suspension: With the spool the axles twist until the point where the inside tire chirps cornering so yes, you've wound a spring so to speak. The spool also makes the car want to go straight increasing understeer. Sway bars are almost always used on the front of 2nd gens in handling applications. Depending on the rear suspension you go with and use of the car, a rear bar may or may not be used. As for what "needs" to be done it depends on use of the vehicle and your expectations. A sticky set of appropriately sized front/rear tires will give you the biggest change to start with. Like anything there's a point of diminishing return on investment and use/expectations come into play before recommendations could be given. There are a lot of suspension upgrades that have little use to anyone not auto-Xing or running on a road race track with appropriate tires that will allow the benefits from advanced suspension/chassis upgrades to be apparent. There's a limit to what's really usable on the street IMO even during "spirited" driving.

5. Seats and speedo: Any of the "sport" seats or "racing" seats will feel less like a cushy Barkolounger than those stock seats. Use of car, rollbar or no, and other things like rear seat access come into play. More info needed. As far as the GPS goes, I've met guys at land speed races using them with datalogging systems and they say they're pretty accurate when compared with the timing equipment. I have no personal experience.

Daren
04-02-2011, 06:52 PM
Thanks a bunch for your insight. It's helpful and sending me in the right direction to ask more detailed questions in appropriate forums. I really needed a basic understanding of what I have and what I need before moving on to multiple posts. This thread is essentially dead at this point, so I'll ask you more last question. I'm having a hard time getting solid info on the 70-73 front bumper and lower valence conversion from a 74 to a 70-73. Can the 74 core support be used with 70-73 bumper brackets or is a 70-73 core support required? No offense to 74 firebird guys but that front fascia, or nose cone if you will, is beyond hideous and the 70-73 is just gorgeous.