Bogus traffic ticket

[wedgehead]

I just wanted you guys opinions on this matter. My 16 year old son got pulled over (lowered red truck) and got a ticket for a failure to stop ticket. He said he stopped. Honest Dad I really did. Yeah right you wouldn't get a ticket for that if you didn't son. Well we went and got the dash cam footage of the stop and it doesn't show him running the stop sign. The footage doesn't even show the stop sign or the stop.
The cop couldn't have seen him stop or not stop due to the angle of the street. We go to court set the ticket up for a hearing. We see the prosecutor at the date and show her the footage. She agrees with me that the cop could not have seen him stop or not. She throws the ticket out.
Now my wife wants to file a complaint against the cop that wrote the ticket as he had to have just been harassing her son.
What would you guys do leave well enough alone or go and talk to his captain or what?
I would upload the video but can't figure out how.

The dash cam footage is from the police car. I just had to go down to city hall and fill out a request form. Always ask for the footage front and back of citation as cops write notes on back of their copy.

[65convertSSl79]

you won let it go

[jy211]

let it go..trust me.

[fbody_mike]

Yup, you won. It is a great lesson for your son, assuming he really did stop. Pushing it further seems fruitless, let it go.

[shmoov69]

Run....run Forest run!!! LOL

[parsonsj]

Yep, that dash cam footage is useful. I used it to get out of a similar situation where the cop made up a whole chase scene that never happened. The cop testified in court that he chased me at speeds approaching 100 mph up I270 during rush hour.

Original verdict: guilty of aggressive driving.

I hired a lawyer and appealed. Got the dash cam footage that showed him pulling me over before we ever got on I270. Verdict: not guilty.

I wanted to sue the cop, city, county, and state (I was pulled over during one of those "we will prosecute Aggressive driving campaigns). My wife prevailed and I let the matter go.

Cops lie, and dash cams don't.

jp

[johnny68]

ya i agree with everyone else its better off to just let it go
john

[Kybosh]

I would talk to the captain. Meet him in person and show him the footage and get his thoughts. I wouldn't file a formal complaint. The best thing you can do is tell your son to keep that dash cam always running.

[The WidowMaker]

lowered red truck? how many of them are there in your town. he may have missed an opportunity to ticket at an earlier date and decided to teach him a lesson this time. maybe not, and not right if he did.

i would let it go.

[DarkBuddha]

Probably best to let it go... not worth the time or effort, and it could turn out to be a bad idea. Law enforcement tends to look after its own and they have plenty of ways to make things unpleasant for you and the family. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen, but you've got to be aware.

The alternative is to forget getting all legal about it and put it on youtube and inform the local media and use social media to get it around a bit. See if it has legs and let it take care of itself.

[WildBillyT]

Let it go. The last thing you want to do is make him a marked man with the local PD.

[406 Q-ship]

I just wanted you guys opinions on this matter. My 16 year old son got pulled over (lowered red truck) and got a ticket for a failure to stop ticket. He said he stopped. Honest Dad I really did. Yeah right you wouldn't get a ticket for that if you didn't son. Well we went and got the dash cam footage of the stop and it doesn't show him running the stop sign. The footage doesn't even show the stop sign or the stop.
The cop couldn't have seen him stop or not stop due to the angle of the street. We go to court set the ticket up for a hearing. We see the prosecutor at the date and show her the footage. She agrees with me that the cop could not have seen him stop or not. She throws the ticket out.
Now my wife wants to file a complaint against the cop that wrote the ticket as he had to have just been harassing her son.
What would you guys do leave well enough alone or go and talk to his captain or what?
I would upload the video but can't figure out how.

Tell your wife to let it go or yourson, yourself, and your wife will be the focus of the local PD. It is done and the ticket is gone.

[mc84_zz4]

Be wise grasshopper, let the wind carry your troubles....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/kung_fu-1.jpg

[6'9"Witha69]

Let it go. You showed your son how the legal process works. It's not what you know but what you can prove.

[Tony_SS]

I agree w/everyone here - you won, let it go.

About the dash cam, was this the cops dash cam? Or is it something in your sons truck that he has running all the time? More info please...

[dadto2jays]

let it go........

[kochevy67]

Yep, that dash cam footage is useful. I used it to get out of a similar situation where the cop made up a whole chase scene that never happened. The cop testified in court that he chased me at speeds approaching 100 mph up I270 during rush hour.

Original verdict: guilty of aggressive driving.

I hired a lawyer and appealed. Got the dash cam footage that showed him pulling me over before we ever got on I270. Verdict: not guilty.

I wanted to sue the cop, city, county, and state (I was pulled over during one of those "we will prosecute Aggressive driving campaigns). My wife prevailed and I let the matter go.

Cops lie, and dash cams don't.

jp

Your last sentence the "Cops Lie" is a really ignorant statement to make. That is way to general, that would be like me saying everybody with the name John is a goof. Although I may be right to say it about one person it wouldn't be fair to blanket everyone. I am not saying that every single person in Law Enforcement is 100% honest and never lies but you make it appear that they all lie. I imagine you can kind of tell what I do for a living.

Total stroke statement that you made.

[parsonsj]

Your last sentence the "Cops Lie" is a really ignorant statement to make. That is way to general, that would be like me saying everybody with the name John is a goofFind the word "everybody" or "all" in my comment, and you'll have a point. I'm simply reporting a fact.

jp

[Steve68]

I'm with JP, Cops lie, Judges lie, chalk it up as experience, and experiance beating them at their own game! because usually you DON'T win and your state make money, even if your wrong or right,

I beat one of these, had pictures of the stop sign, judge asked where's the stop sign in this pic, neverless, I got out of their town quickly, but law abiding!!!!

[Blown73]

I have seen it many times where a cop will make the story sound to his advantage. Otherwise, he would look bad, you know that, we know that, he knows that.

I have been in a similar situation, you will only make yourself a target to the cops if you push the issue further. I live in a relatively small town and know this all too well. I was pulled over 5 times in a month all for minute things to get my attention. Not a fun situation at all.

Let it go...

[cluxford]

On a forum down here in Oz a guy who got defected for a modified car made probably the best suggestion I have ever seen. Here you can be defected without proof. Yes. If a cop or anyone "thinks" your car is too loud, too low, or breaking the law you get defected (arrives in the mail). It's is up to you to then prove your innocence usually by going and getting the car inspected usually to the tune of a few hundred dollars. Oh and you cannot drive your car while defected, has to be trailed, so if you don't have a trailer = more expense towing. I know of guys defected literally driving past a police station, no one in sight, then 2 days later in the mail arrives a defect notice. Gets car inspected -al clear and legal but now out of pocket.

So the suggestion down here by one guy was if the defect is proven to be unfounded the person who brought the defect against the owner (cop or public) has to pay all out of pocket expenses themselves.

I love this as an idea, cause I am sick of the "prove you are innocent" rather than "prove you are guilty" nanny state we are heading towards....

[parsonsj]

My father-in-law and brother-in-law are cops. I've heard their stories many times.

Just look at the evidence in this thread. 3 separate reports of a cop lying. Many others saying not to sue, due to concerns about retribution. Look at the history of police corruption in New York City, Chicago, and LA. Thousands and thousands of cases all over the country.

It's not a pretty story, and thank goodness (in my case) for that dash cam. We teach our kids to trust the police, but most adults don't.

And don't get me started on the hypocrisy of speeding laws and its enforcement in this country.

jp

[Tony_SS]

I like the idea of these dash cams. I would love to see a cops face, if he pulled me over, approached my car and noticed that he was being recorded on my dash cam. lol! Whats good for the goose...

[parsonsj]

To be clear, I'm talking about the dash cam in the police vehicle. My lawyer was able to subpoena it in my case.

[Tony_SS]

To be clear, I'm talking about the dash cam in the police vehicle. My lawyer was able to subpoena it in my case.

I see. It sounds like he is talking about the cops dash cam in the OP too... if so, I wonder how he was able to get that footage..

[Blown73]

You can request the footage of the dash cam as evidence in your case. I don't know the legal jargon of how to acquire it, but if it is used against you in a court of law, you have the right to it.

[Six_Shooter]

Tell your wife to let it go or yourson, yourself, and your wife will be the focus of the local PD. It is done and the ticket is gone.

This^^^

I would also suggest letting it go.

I've been told a story about a guy that had a cop ticketed for an offense that he (the police officer) committed, I don't have time to get into details right now, but basically the civilian that had the officer charged was the target of the local P.D. and he couldn't drive onto a road way without getting harrased, is basically what happened. It's not right, but it happens.

[parsonsj]

You can request the footage of the dash cam as evidence in your case. I don't know the legal jargon of how to acquire it, but if it is used against you in a court of law, you have the right to it.In my case, the officer didn't disclose the use of the camera, but lied repeatedly during my traffic court appearance. Afterward, I consulted with a local attorney, and he told me that it was possible there was a camera, he procured that evidence, and then we appealed.

Of course, I paid him well for his efforts. The whole ordeal cost me $1500.

jp

[Blown73]

In my case, the officer didn't disclose the use of the camera, but lied repeatedly during my traffic court appearance. Afterward, I consulted with a local attorney, and he told me that it was possible there was a camera, he procured that evidence, and then we appealed.

Of course, I paid him well for his efforts. The whole ordeal cost me $1500.

jp

I dont know of a cop in the world that would disclose the use of a camera that would let you off. But if you ask for it, they have to supply it. (of course, if the car isn't equipped with it then it's impossible)

A friend of mine got a DUI (dumbass) in San Jose. The cop originally pulled him over for wreckless driving and speeding in his 69 camaro. When he requested to see the tape, the officer told him that it was "lost". When his lawyer requested it again, it magically reappeared and he was not speeding or weaving in and out of traffic. Unfortunately for his luck, he was still driving under the influence and got pinned for that. But, there was no original cause in pulling him over after reviewing the tape.

[Gitter Dun]

I was making a right hand turn onto a two lane highway that turned into one lane after about 80 feet. My wife was in front of me and went first. I seen a car coming but I had plenty of room and pulled out behind my wife, she pulled into #1 lane and slowed up for me to pass her because I need to pull into the garage first. A highway patrol man passed her, sped up on my ass, and then hit the lights. I pulled over and my wife passed me and pulle over in front of me. When the officer came to my window I asked him what he pulled me over. He said that I failed to yield to on coming traffic. I told him he had to be out of his mind and that he pulled me over because he thought I was a kid in a hot rod. We began to argue and he asked me if I had something against cops. I told him no, I have something against *******s. He then asked me to go with him to his car and then proceeded to ask me if I had been drinking. I told him that he wished i'd been drinking because then he would have something valid to pull me over for. I told him he should have waited a bit and he might have been able to get me for speeding. He wrote me the ticket and I told him I'd see him in court. He never showed.

[bdahlg68]

For the many posts in this thread about abuse of power, I say file a complaint. For all the honest cops out there, they should be on your side. The problem is that there are probably so many frivolous complaints out there from people who really did wrong, that it then becomes the stereotype of more or less all people who actually file complaints against police are just trying to escape a citation. This is unfortunate, but it is reality and I'm not surprised given the general behavior of our population. Most of us on this site would typically side with the cops, but in these cases, they need to be able to decipher an actual concern from a stereotype. JMHO.

[DarkBuddha]

Look, I was given plenty of crap by plenty of cops back in my teens and early 20s for nothing more than being a big, young, metal head with long hair that drove a clapped-out muscle car. Sure, they always had some "legitimate" reason for pulling me over, like being 3 miles over the limit (in a 65mph zone), having a taillight out (bulb holder fell out the housing), or an "illegal left hand turn" (where I crossed the last foot the yellow line), or whatever. That's not the BS part of it... no, it was that they then always took every opportunity to search the car, detained me for an extra thorough check, tried to goad me into saying something stupid, etc. Hell, after stopping me for a lane change without a signal, I had to wait until a second unit showed up so they could search my car. The two cops purposely and provocative ruined several rolls of unexposed film in my face while searching my car for drugs for no apparent reason other than they wanted to be dicks (I had probably 20 film canisters in the car as I was a photo major at school at the time). That was $30 wasted that a poor college student (me) could've used.

The funny thing is that most of the time they ended up letting me go with nothing more than a "warning". But hell, I had no criminal record, no driving infractions, a 3.8+ gpa (in college), and was always respectful. What were they gonna do? The couple times I was ticketed, I went to court where either the cop didn't show up or the ticket was reduced to "court costs."

Now, am I saying all cops are dicks? No. I am saying that there may be a culture among law enforcement to target and lean on people that meet particular profiles and/or appearances. And since I seemed to fit those profiles/appearances and probably shared values with many of them, I got hassled for it. Back then I worried about it. Now I don't, and it's probably why I question any and all authority and claims to authority. Not all cops are dicks, but IMHO, if you're a cop that does that kinda **** and don't have the integrity or moral fiber to apologize for being wrong, then you're a **** and **** you. So go ahead, stop me... if you're a ****, I'll tell you so and I'll see you in court.

[The WidowMaker]

i drove the crap out of my car when i was younger and was pulled over no less than 10 times. i ended up with two tickets; exhibition of speed for doing a burnout (10k after 7 years of increased insurance) and a speeding ticket for running it thru first and second and coasting (70 in a 45 although my car maxed at 60 in 2nd). although i agreed with neither, the cops were more correct than i was. i wasnt driving my car like i should have been or how i would want someone else driving next to me.

i think some of you guys forget how difficult of a job cops have. some have talked about getting into pissing matches with cops. bad idea. they deserve respect and i would make your day miserable too if i was in their shoes and you blatantly disrespected me. would you talk that way to a judge as he was sentencing you? come on......

in my job, ive watched cops get spit on, hit, shot at, swung at with a knife, verbally assaulted etc. there is a reason that they have the attitudes that they do; they usually deal with the scum of the earth. and if you are profiled into one of those categories by your actions, well, God help you.

[parsonsj]

Same here. I got pulled over many many times during my late teens/early 20s. All kinds of bs reasons. Once I was following a cop home from college, and I was coming up on my exit. This was during the 55 mph stupidity and he was going 55 mph and stacking up traffic. We were in the middle lane, and I signaled, then moved to the right. The officer didn't look, didn't signal and nearly hit me with his sudden lane change (as I was speeding up to try enjoy the off ramp a bit more). Lights come on and he pulls me over from in front of me.

He told me I made an unsafe lane change. When I "mentioned" that I had signaled, checked my blind-spot and moved in a controlled way to the right lane -- none of which he had done, he came unglued. He started yelling, pulled his nightstick, and threatened to beat the crap out of me. Luckily, this was daylight on Highway 99 south of Sacramento, and dozens of cars were passing by. Then he searched my car, including looking under my hood and in my trunk, and finally let me go with a warning, after his rage had passed.

What an *******. Like Wyatt, that sort of thing happened to me all the time. I didn't street race, do drugs, or drive drunk. I was just a long-haired college student, and cops disliked me on sight.

jp

[The WidowMaker]

No. I am saying that there may be a culture among law enforcement to target and lean on people that meet particular profiles and/or appearances. And since I seemed to fit those profiles/appearances and probably shared values with many of them, I got hassled for it.

but if you were a cop and 9 times out of 10 you searched a guy like you described and found illegal drugs, how can you blame them? theres a reason blue hairs dont get searched and guys dressed like gangsters (not your example) do. it totally blows for the innocent guy that is being profiled, but imho thats what keeps our streets safer.

[parsonsj]

it totally blows for the innocent guy that is being profiled, but imho thats what keeps our streets safer.I kind of get that for street crime and such. I reject that for cops doing traffic law enforcement. Why in the world would a cop make up a 100mph chase down a busy interstate about me? How is that keeping streets safer? My driving record was perfect. I was 43 years old, dressed in a suit on my way home from my office job. I was in a black 2001 Z28, and I can only guess he was into imports or something. That one still blows my mind. That dude should have been kicked off the force.

jp

[BonzoHansen]

^^not a lawyer^^ I think the term for getting the video is discovery. They have to share all evidence with the defendant. How it works I have no idea.



Same here. I got pulled over many many times during my late teens/early 20s. All kinds of bs reasons. Hell yeah. Driving with no hood. Doing 28 in a 25 zone. Followed from one end of town to the other. Once I got 'you must have been speeding because I had to do 50 to catch you". Um, yeah, if you do the same 35 I was doing you'd never catch me. Simple math sir.

In the long run I figure it equaled out considering all the stupid things I did. And I got off with a lot of warnings in my day. Including 94 in a 55 zone. :)

[FMG CAMARO]

Just because your son got off on the ticket does not mean that the police officer lied. All it means is that your son could not be proved guilty beyond a reasonabale doubt. That is the burden of proof required no matter if it is a traffic ticket or a murder. A police officer only needs probable cause to arrest. This is why the district attorney's do not have a 100% conviction rate. Just because the violation was not on the dash camera doesnt mean it didnt happen. If a cop is parked facing northbound and turns his head to the left, now looking westbound the camera is still facing north. If the cop sees a guy blow someones head off should he not arrest because it is not on his dash camera? I doubt a cop is gonna totally make up a guy blew a stop sign when if he wants he can probable get 20 people an hour blowing said stop sign. If there was any inclination of the cop lying, there is a law called perjury and District attorneys would love to get a cop on that. I am not going to say that some cops dont lie. Everyone has a story about their sister's friend's cousin who was wronged by a cop. Blah blah blah. Just like people have been wronged by mechanics, parts vendors,contractors, doctors and so on. Bottom line is the service of police far out weigh the bad. No cops? What would the fatality rate be on america's highways? Would your hotrod still be in your garage? As far as making a complaint, the officers captain is just gonna piss on your back and tell you it is raining. Then your son will get wallpapered. Wallpapered means the cop will write your son so many tickets he can wallpaper his bedroom. Just be happy you beat the ticket and leave well enough alone. Dont let one bad experience taint your and your son's view of law enforcement.

[The WidowMaker]

Hell yeah. Driving with no hood. Doing 28 in a 25 zone. Followed from one end of town to the other. Once I got 'you must have been speeding because I had to do 50 to catch you". Um, yeah, if you do the same 35 I was doing you'd never catch me. Simple math sir.

In the long run I figure it equaled out considering all the stupid things I did. And I got off with a lot of warnings in my day. Including 94 in a 55 zone.


my 70 in a 45 was the same. instead of trying the math part in court, i went to traffic school and got it off the record. i was over the limit so he was only partially wrong.

how did you get off with the 94 in a 55? i have a feeling you started with a lot of "sirs".


I was 43 years old, dressed in a suit on my way home from my office job. I was in a black 2001 Z28, and I can only guess he was into imports or something. That one still blows my mind. That dude should have been kicked off the force.



maybe he saw a car like yours parked outside his ex wifes house. pretty outrageous that he would make that all up. but, there are bad apples. no profession is perfect. not one.

[DarkBuddha]

but if you were a cop and 9 times out of 10 you searched a guy like you described and found illegal drugs, how can you blame them? theres a reason blue hairs dont get searched and guys dressed like gangsters (not your example) do. it totally blows for the innocent guy that is being profiled, but imho thats what keeps our streets safer.
You conveniently left out the part of my quote that shows that I understand... up to a point. That point is when a cop doesn't show proper contrition when his decision and actions are proven unwarranted:

Not all cops are dicks, but IMHO, if you're a cop that does that kinda **** and don't have the integrity or moral fiber to apologize for being wrong, then you're a **** and **** you.

To quote Buckaroo Banzai: "Hey, hey, hey, hey-now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are."

[parsonsj]

As far as making a complaint, the officers captain is just gonna piss on your back and tell you it is raining. Then your son will get wallpapered. Wallpapered means the cop will write your son so many tickets he can wallpaper his bedroom. Just be happy you beat the ticket and leave well enough alone. Dont let one bad experience taint your and your son's view of law enforcement.I don't know how you can know about and expect "wallpapering" and then ask that the OP and his son not have a negative view of law enforcement.

I get that we need cops on the beat. I understand that the bad guys would ruin our society without police. But wouldn't our communities be a better place without cops wallpapering kids, and captains demanding professional behavior from their officers rather than covering for them?

[The WidowMaker]

You conveniently left out the part of my quote that shows that I understand... up to a point. That point is when a cop doesn't show proper contrition when his decision and actions are proven unwarranted:


im not sure why i needed to quote any more. you said


I am saying that there may be a culture among law enforcement to target and lean on people that meet particular profiles and/or appearances. And since I seemed to fit those profiles/appearances and probably shared values with many of them, I got hassled for it.

i was using your statement and saying that the culture IS there, and for good reason. cops can say they dont profile all day long. we know thats a lie. profiling, to a point, keeps them and us safe.

[FMG CAMARO]

Everyone is accusing this officer of lying about the original incident so why wouldnt he lie some more and retaliate if someone makes a complaint? Wallpapering is more of a joke, its doesnt really happen. My point was becareful what you ask for. As far as the captain is concerned this officer is working for him and writing tickets and so on. He wasnt accused of gross misconduct by the op. It will be his word against a 16 year olds. As I stated before he obviously wasnt suspected of perjury by the DA so what is his captain gonna do?

[Romulus]

I was the whitest, cleanest cut, most uptight kid there was out of highschool, but my first car was a '68 Camaro. Early 90's and I'm sitting at a light and a cop pulls up behind me and blips his lights. Him and his partner get out, and start going over my car. I'm sitting in the middle lane of a fairly busy intersection. The cop actually got out a measuring device and measured the tread on my tires as well as the height of my headlights. They didn't write me up for anything, but they sat me there for 10-15 minutes in the middle of traffic busting my chops about all the stuff they should write me up for and they are doing me a huge favor. That was one of a dozen stupid encounters in the 90's. The only ticket I ever got was doing 70 in a 65. Went to court and the cop didn't show up. The judge STILL had to make a point to say he would have found me guilty even though I had never had a ticket AND had gone and had my speedo re-calibrated with a $200 receipt at the same place that did the local highway patrols car. My dad and lawyer rolled their eyes and we walked out.

It will always be the Hatfields and the McCoys because there will always be 20% of cops on an authority ego trip and 20% of kids (OK maybe 40%-50%) of kids seeing how much they can get away with. I wasn't one of them.

I've never filed a complaint against a cop, but I've had several positive experiences with officers for various reasons and always sent a letter or email to the precinct or supervisor. Hopefully get the good guys some recognition and the cops that became cops because they got bullied in school a big ol zip - well I'm not that naive.. but it makes me feel better.

[shmoov69]

Man, I have been pulled over prolly 20-30 times since I've been driving and had only I cop that was not either plesant, professional or both. I've got many speeding tickets, an excessive accelleration, an exhibition of speed and a speed greater than reasonable and prudent. which were all in lieu of a drag racing ticket because it would have been worse, all because the cops were nice.

You guys must have some bad karma! Or just got attitudes to the cops! LoL!

[DartorDemon]

I just wanted you guys opinions on this matter. My 16 year old son got pulled over (lowered red truck) and got a ticket for a failure to stop ticket. He said he stopped. Honest Dad I really did. Yeah right you wouldn't get a ticket for that if you didn't son. Well we went and got the dash cam footage of the stop and it doesn't show him running the stop sign. The footage doesn't even show the stop sign or the stop.
The cop couldn't have seen him stop or not stop due to the angle of the street. We go to court set the ticket up for a hearing. We see the prosecutor at the date and show her the footage. She agrees with me that the cop could not have seen him stop or not. She throws the ticket out.
Now my wife wants to file a complaint against the cop that wrote the ticket as he had to have just been harassing her son.
What would you guys do leave well enough alone or go and talk to his captain or what?
I would upload the video but can't figure out how.

I'm with everyone else here. let it go.

Oddly enough, i'm in a similar situation. Got pulled over a few weeks ago in my lowered red truck. Supposedly doing 41mph in a 25, but its a fairly slow truck and i was only in 2nd gear. 41mph is topping 5000rpm in 2nd gear. Buzzing at 6500 only gets the truck to 55mph in 2nd gear. Ironically, just prior to being pulled over i was "cruising" because i didnt want to beat on the truck until i got an oil change.

Said cop was a complete ***** during the whole ordeal. I'm certainly not anti-cop as i have a degree in criminal justice, but asshats like this really make cops look bad.

[Off Duty]

This was going pretty well until the last several posts:(
Yes, "some" cops lie.
Yes, "some" Prosecuting attorney's lie.
Yes, "some" Defense attorney's lie.
Yes, "some" Defendants lie.
Hell....everybody lies sometime!
I've seen it in court from all sides:(
But to blanket a statement like that "cops lie" implies "all" cops lie by default.
That's crap.
I've been in that field for 30 years.
I despise a liar, I don't care what side they're on!

As for the OP, I'd probably have a talk with the officers shift commander, but for now, stop short of an "official" complaint.

I recently had the need to have a "chat" with the shift commander of a local PD regrding the actions of one of thier own.
I simply stated that I didn't want anything in writing, wasn't out for his head, and didn't want his job (BTDT-:) ).
I didn't want any adverse actions in his personnel jacket, I just wanted them to take care of the issue, and let him know, people are more aware these days.

I took the high road, yet got the guys attention.
The shift commander (who I happend to know) took care of it and I don't think it'll happen again.
If you really want to pursue it, that's the way I'd try first.

As for making your son a "marked man", unless this is a "Mayberry" type town, then I wouldn't worry about it. Most of that nonsese is just that....
Glad your son beat the charge. Like I said, I hate bad cops!

[Off Duty]

Everyone is accusing this officer of lying about the original incident so why wouldnt he lie some more and retaliate if someone makes a complaint? Wallpapering is more of a joke, its doesnt really happen. My point was becareful what you ask for. As far as the captain is concerned this officer is working for him and writing tickets and so on. He wasnt accused of gross misconduct by the op. It will be his word against a 16 year olds. As I stated before he obviously wasnt suspected of perjury by the DA so what is his captain gonna do?

That's not entirely correct.
Most of the Captains I've known would not jeopardize thier career and pensions, over the actions of one of thier subordinates. I'm sure there are some, but i wouldn't place a large wager on thier being that many.
This officer is one of I'm sure, several, that work for this Capt./Shift Commander, and could be replaced tomorrow by an overzealous rookie who get's off in writing traffic tickets :)
Certainly not irreplaceable.

Falsifying documents, and giving false statements, especially under oath, is a felony in most states, and certainly enough to get you fired in most departments.
Regardless of the fact that this is "just a ticket", if he purjured himself by giving false testimony , that's problem. What else would he be willing to falsify to cover his backside?

And it's not just the 16 year old vs. the officer. It's the 16 year old, the LEO's own Dash Cam footage, and a district/State attorney that agrees with him, vs. the officer.
Now you have some HP:)

Finally, just because he wasn't "charged" with perjury, doesn't mean the SAO or DA didn't note the fact.
It's not at all unusual for a state or disctrict attorney not to charge an officer with perjury, unless he/she has an independent complaining witness (ie: your son).

But I've seen personally where a states attorney made comment regarding an officers testimony...on one occasion indicating that this was a "routine" thing for one officer and no one believes him any more. He couldn't buy a conviction!

Believe me, they notice.

Sometimes in a case like that, they'll (DA/SAO) will fire off a letter to the officers department head (Chief/Sheriff, etc) making "note" of the inconsistencies and thier concern. From there, it usually goes to IA (Internal Affairs) and the rest is usually history ;).
They're usually terminated or quit, and the SAO/DA get's to keep thier hands clean.

[Tony_SS]

Here are a couple of resources that can help your encounter with a cop:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/180608_b_talk.htm

http://flexyourrights.org/

[DarkBuddha]

i was using your statement and saying that the culture IS there, and for good reason. cops can say they dont profile all day long. we know thats a lie. profiling, to a point, keeps them and us safe.
Again, I understand the profiling, but you missed my point about how a cop handles themselves when profiling. If a cop profiles me (or anyone else) and it turns out to be a bad call on their part because I (or whoever) turn out to be a fine upstanding citizen (despite the fact that we may fit the "profile"), then the cop should have the integrity and moral fiber to apologize and act appropriately contrite. But if he pulls me on a profile but then finds out he was wrong and chooses to be a ****, hassles me, and tickets me on some superbly minor total BS thing, then he's a ****, straight up.

The thing is that cops don't have to be dicks while doing their job. They have to do their job, act professionally, make good judgement calls, not manipulate evidence or the law, and not pull some power-trip just because they can or because they feel like it. I'll tolerate and understand a cop being short, strict, and even sanctimonious. But I won't tolerate or understand a cop that chooses to be mean, provocative, disrespectful, or manipulative. That's being a ****.

[Tony_SS]

I dunno, if I had to be a cop, the stress, pressure and exposure to internal corruption might just push me toward taking out my frustration on those who didn't deserve it. Not saying its just, but talk about an underpaid, overstressed job. I sure wouldn't want to do it.

With that in mind, I have a few techniques that neutralize my encounters with them.

[WildBillyT]

Again, I understand the profiling, but you missed my point about how a cop handles themselves when profiling. If a cop profiles me (or anyone else) and it turns out to be a bad call on their part because I (or whoever) turn out to be a fine upstanding citizen (despite the fact that we may fit the "profile"), then the cop should have the integrity and moral fiber to apologize and act appropriately contrite. But if he pulls me on a profile but then finds out he was wrong and chooses to be a ****, hassles me, and tickets me on some superbly minor total BS thing, then he's a ****, straight up.


Yep! Exactly how I feel. Now it's my story time :)

It was the end of fall semester my senior year of college and to blow off some steam I went out for beers with a buddy of mine in his orange '69 GTO. We went to the Chili's on city line ave in Philadelphia and started talking car stuff. He had some pinging at high RPM in the goat so we went out to change the timing. After we set it we did a few WOT runs behind the ACME to see if it solved the problem. It did so we headed back to Chili's. As soon as we got out of the car a police car comes in through each exit with the lights on (two marked, one unmarked) and they jump out of the car ready to draw on us (they might have even done so, one had a shotgun pointed in our direction, I was too stunned to notice). We had our hands in the air so they came up and searched us and the car- which included lifting seats and checking every compartment. The tools in the trunk didn't help our situation, but once we showed our college IDs and explained ourselves for a little while they softened up and started BS'ing with us to break the tension as they knew they could relax and nothing was up. John and I stayed remarkably calm through the whole thing since we weren't guilty of anything, but it still made me kind of uneasy.

Apprarently one of the neighbors or passers-by saw us working with tools and mistook the timing light for a real gun (no ****... really...) so they called the cops on us. When we did the high RPM runs the cops thought we were going to make a break for it. Fun times. But I was OK with it ever since then as they were doing their jobs.

The ticket I got for 30 in a 25? That, however, was an officer who was really reaching. There are jerks in every profession. Law enforcement is no different than any other.

[kochevy67]

Find the word "everybody" or "all" in my comment, and you'll have a point. I'm simply reporting a fact.

jp

An educated person does not need to look far it is in your last sentence when you made the word "Cops" plural. I don't want to argue with you because I will never win you proved that from the last post regarding the vendor not delivering the parts. As for this particular situation I cannot comment because I was not there nor were the rest of us, however I will never say that all Police Officers are 100% honest, that would be ridicolous.

John as far as the corruption you cited in the three major cities you may be right about L.A. and N.Y. but Chicago I am not so sure about, you see I work here and we had a scandal where various Officers were arrested and low and behold all but 3 or 4 of them were reinstated and the charges were dropped. I would be curious to see where you are getting your facts from regarding this matter.

If you read the original post I cannot be sure that the Police Officer saw it or not. By the OP's own account he stated the dash cam could not see the stop sign. Then I have to ask how the Police car was angled or not could the Officer have a different vantage point or not. Now please before you start bashing me understand that if the Officer pulled some b.s. then your kid deserves to walk on the ticket and the Officer needs to be talked to regarding this matter. I just have a hard time believing in this day and age that any Officer would jeopradize his career over a traffic ticket.

[Derek69SS]

It seems we're as afraid of the cops as we are of the criminals...

[parsonsj]

I just have a hard time believing in this day and age that any Officer would jeopradize his career over a traffic ticket.I agree that ought to be how police officers behave, but the whole traffic system is set up such that guilt is presumed. It's very difficult to shake the testimony of any cop willing to lie on the stand. Without that dash cam, I'd have an aggressive driving ticket on my record, and my insurance costs would be through the roof. I'm quite grateful for that dash camera.

[67blacklist]

It seems we're as afraid of the cops as we are of the criminals...


not all cops are bad, I've met my share and most of them were just ordinary people doing there job...

as for the bad cops, I'd rather the criminals, people don't get as worked up if you leave them in a pool of blood.

[1969CamaroRS]

It seems we're as afraid of the cops as we are of the criminals...

Reminds me of a quote:



Democrats switch political parties and become Republicans when they become afraid of criminals.
And Republicans become Democrats when they become afraid of the government.


I too have seen my share of good and bad officers. And I come from a family of Police (Father, Brother and Uncle all are/were Police Officers). Like with any group there are those that are honest and there are the bad apples.

[garickman]

I just wanted you guys opinions on this matter. My 16 year old son got pulled over (lowered red truck) and got a ticket for a failure to stop ticket. He said he stopped. Honest Dad I really did. Yeah right you wouldn't get a ticket for that if you didn't son. Well we went and got the dash cam footage of the stop and it doesn't show him running the stop sign. The footage doesn't even show the stop sign or the stop.
The cop couldn't have seen him stop or not stop due to the angle of the street. We go to court set the ticket up for a hearing. We see the prosecutor at the date and show her the footage. She agrees with me that the cop could not have seen him stop or not. She throws the ticket out.
Now my wife wants to file a complaint against the cop that wrote the ticket as he had to have just been harassing her son.
What would you guys do leave well enough alone or go and talk to his captain or what?
I would upload the video but can't figure out how.

One thing I find interesting on this thread is that in all the "PROOF" that is posted about each persons story about how the cops lied is that there actually is no proof. In reality all that is really posted is one side of a two sided story. With out the officer to explain his side of the incident, that is all it will ever be is a one sided story. Even from the original poster we are only getting one side of story. From where I sit it is impossible to tell if his son ran the stop sign or not. There is simply not enough details in this post. We don't know who's dash cam the footage came from, perhaps the officer was ahead of the stop sign looking in his rear view mirror, if it was in fact a dash cam from the officers car, perhaps his head was turned in a different direction than his dash cam was facing. I am not saying the original poster or his son are lying, I am just saying all the facts are not there. The first thing that strikes me odd in this story is the fact that he said they showed the prosecutor the footage. In most states a traffic ticket is an infraction including the state of Texas. An infraction is not a crime there for there would be no prosecutor involved. It may be different in Texas but things brings out my point, none of us have all the deatails in this case to determine who was right or wrong. That being said, my suggestion is on par with most everyone else. Let it go.

[BonzoHansen]

How did you get off with the 94 in a 55? i have a feeling you started with a lot of "sirs".
Oh sure. And clean license, clean car with good inspection, etc. It went kind of like this
PO: You know why I pulled you over’
Me: I assume speeding because I was doing like 75. But in my defense the whole road is doing 75+ (interstate 287 in NJ)
PO: True, but I clocked you back there at 94!
Me: Sorry officer I didn’t look at my speed until your lights came on but I know after merging I caught myself and slowed down to the flow of traffic.

So maybe me being polite & my words matching what he saw. I dunno. I still have that written warning somewhere. He was a nice guy too.

I forgot the $30 no points ticket I got in NC for tailgating a cop on I-95. Unmarked 5.0GT, he pulled right in front of me to go around a truck and I did not feel like turning off the cruise control, so assuming the guy would duck back in the right lane after the truck I just kept getting closer & closer. Hey, I was tired and wanted to go home lol. Nicest cop I ever met. We bs’d for like 20 minutes.

[DarkBuddha]

Look, I've recounted my bad interactions with cops, but failed to mention that I have had perfectly good interactions as well. I just chose to relay the ones that seemed in-line with the experience of the OP's son and that officer's apparent behavior and actions. I have had cops that have stopped me for legit reasons, acted professionally, and treated me with respect, and a couple were even lenient. Those cops aren't dicks... they're professionals. And I hold them in great esteem.

[Blown73]

I think most of us can agree that we have all had both good and bad experiences with Officers of the Law. They are on the streets to do their job. I disagree that they are under paid as the starting salary around here for a local police officer and CHP officer is in the range of $4,500 + per month. It may be different in other areas, but they make more than I did with a 4 year college degree in engineering straight out of community college.

I have had good run ins and gotten away with more than I should have, and I have also had bad run ins that were bogus. I was pulled over once by a sheriff so he could talk to me about my car. He was a good guy. I have also been pulled over for 39 in a 35, ticketed, and given the 3rd degree. Not all cops have this in them, but I very truly believe that some police officers let the "power" that they have through ticketing/arresting go to their heads.

[The WidowMaker]

$4,500 + per month

thats not enough to buy a single family home and raise a family around here. we could go on and on about salaries and pensions, but when ceos are making 100x's their average employee, something has gone REALLY wrong.

[Defender67]

One thing I find interesting on this thread is that in all the "PROOF" that is posted about each persons story about how the cops lied is that there actually is no proof. In reality all that is really posted is one side of a two sided story. With out the officer to explain his side of the incident, that is all it will ever be is a one sided story. Even from the original poster we are only getting one side of story. From where I sit it is impossible to tell if his son ran the stop sign or not. There is simply not enough details in this post. We don't know who's dash cam the footage came from, perhaps the officer was ahead of the stop sign looking in his rear view mirror, if it was in fact a dash cam from the officers car, perhaps his head was turned in a different direction than his dash cam was facing. I am not saying the original poster or his son are lying, I am just saying all the facts are not there. The first thing that strikes me odd in this story is the fact that he said they showed the prosecutor the footage. In most states a traffic ticket is an infraction including the state of Texas. An infraction is not a crime there for there would be no prosecutor involved. It may be different in Texas but things brings out my point, none of us have all the deatails in this case to determine who was right or wrong. That being said, my suggestion is on par with most everyone else. Let it go.

Best point made. There are two sides to every story and there is only one side here. Also, a dash cam is not required to write a citation; it certainly wasn't needed before they were invented.

Everyone has a "bad" cop story, but in my experience those stories are usually embellished or end up being a friend of a friend's story. There are extenuating circumstances to many of them and the person recounting those stories tend to leave out the most self-incriminating details to better support themselves. There are FEW bad apples in departments, but yes it does happen... but nobody wants to go to federal court over a traffic cite. Rule #1 is not handing out cites and "going on power trips," it is getting home safe at the end of the shift.

In line with most others here: Yes, let it go. The system served its purpose and the cite was dismissed.

[DarkBuddha]

Everyone has a "bad" cop story, but in my experience those stories are usually embellished or end up being a friend of a friend's story. There are extenuating circumstances to many of them and the person recounting those stories tend to leave out the most self-incriminating details to better support themselves.
That made me laugh... I've never thought of being young, having long hair, and driving a beat muscle car as "extenuating circumstances" or "self-incriminating details", but I suppose they are. :lmao:

[sr73bu]

I guess the best way to look at all of this is that there are good and bad people in any occupation... engineering, design, accounting, police... you name it. I've had good and bad experiences with Police... just like i've had good and bad experiences with accountants, employees at McDonalds and engineers I work along side of... obviously getting hit with a ticket or getting scolded by an officer younger than you is alot harder to swallow than some kid that hates his job taking your order... but at the end of the day Police have a job to do, just like you and I. We tend to feel like we are the only people in the world when we get a ticket... but MOST of the time if you get pulled over, there is a legitimate reason.

Profiling has to exist for our safety... i don't care what people say, its human nature to judge someone by the way they look or if they look "out of place" in a certain area. As a former punk ass kid... I always tried to prove the officer wrong, by treating him with respect and being polite... rather than the image I portrayed as a disrespectful little punk with a shaved head and a metal band t-shirt on... I usaully was questioned and sent on my way. Too many people are up in arms as soon as they see the lights... like Patrick Swayze said in Roadhouse... "be nice until it's time to not be nice" lol

-Sean

[showa]

Not going to comment on the stories here but just want to relay that in my 30+ years as a police Officer, I tried to treat all I came in contact with, as they treated me.... I had my run-ins with the law before becoming an Officer, and I believe this helped to form my way of dealing with people I encountered....
Of course after too many years working undercover or plain clothes, I ask Officers on my department who go to traffic enforcement when they're going to come back to being real Cops...... ( I know, I can be a bit of an ###)

[SLO_Z28]

[quoted text and response removed: personal attacks are NOT permitted. Don't do that again.]


So the one sided attacks are permitted? Typical. Classy job letting this one get out of hand moderators.

[Jim Nilsen]

They used to have a public statement in Illinios that went like this....

"Be right ,but don't be dead right"

You got the first one so don't go looking for the other.

[derekf]

So the one sided attacks are permitted? Typical. Classy job letting this one get out of hand moderators.

Nope, one-sided attacks aren't permitted at all, but I can't find any posts that attack you at all. I see some folks with general hostility towards police, and I see some hostility back from folks who I assume are LEOs, but the only direct attack I saw was from you -- and that at someone who just disagreed. Not seeing anything that's "unclassy" or "out of hand".

Please point me/the other moderators at the other personal attacks, so that they can be dealt with. If they were sent to you via PM, please forward those PMs to a mod or to Larry.

[TonyHuntimer]

There's good and bad people out there. Cops, politicians, firemen, mom's, dad's, lunch ladies, writers, photographers, etc. If a person treats me with respect, I treat them with respect. Treating all cops as bad cops is a personal problem that will bite you. I've personally got much worse dad stories than I do cop stories. I suggest that everyone spend a day on a ride along and see if it changes your opinion of police officers. Maybe it won't, but you should try it. If nothing at all, you may make a friend that can help you with advice or out of a ticket in the future.


I disagree that they are under paid as the starting salary around here for a local police officer and CHP officer is in the range of $4,500 + per month. It may be different in other areas, but they make more than I did with a 4 year college degree in engineering straight out of community college.

I'm not sure about your area, but in San Jose that's not a lot of money...considering about 40% of thier pay is automatically deducted from every check and put into retirement...so the taxpayers don't get stuck with paying for it later.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[wedgehead]

I will get the video of the stop on here so you guys can see the stop.

[Blown73]

There's good and bad people out there. Cops, politicians, firemen, mom's, dad's, lunch ladies, writers, photographers, etc. If a person treats me with respect, I treat them with respect. Treating all cops as bad cops is a personal problem that will bite you. I've personally got much worse dad stories than I do cop stories. I suggest that everyone spend a day on a ride along and see if it changes your opinion of police officers. Maybe it won't, but you should try it. If nothing at all, you may make a friend that can help you with advice or out of a ticket in the future.

Which is why I said it might be different in other areas. The cost of living in this area is much lower than in San Jose, about 30%, which is also adjusted by the COLA. that is also starting salary for a 20 something cop just starting.

Either way, yes, don't get pulled over and be a jerk to the cop, that's the easiest way to get a ticket. I have never outright been disrespectful to a nice police officer, nor will I ever be.

[mpozzi]

I will get the video of the stop on here so you guys can see the stop.

Your son's word is fine with me and you asked for advice on whether you or your wife should pursue it with the police department. Based on the video as proof, your son didn't have to pay a fine and wasn't charged a point on his driving record (a good thing). Almost everyone has advised to just leave it "as is" and to not poke the tiger with a stick. I'll tail on to that advice as well ...

Mary P.

[Defender67]

That made me laugh... I've never thought of being young, having long hair, and driving a beat muscle car as "extenuating circumstances" or "self-incriminating details", but I suppose they are. :lmao:

Not what I meant, but everyone's situation is different =)

[fordsbyjay]

Don't kid yourselfs, all cops that write tickets are dicks. They don't care if they are right or wrong or if you can even get off of it. You still have to take a day off work plus court costs to get out of a ticket that you never deserved in the first place so they win regardless. That is why they don't bother to show up in court. They should make it so that if you go to court and they can't prove you did what they claim then they should have to pay all the costs and lost wages. That would stop all that BS in a heartbeat. I HATE cops because I have never met one that wasn't a *****.

When I lived in Calgary we had to cross Glenmore bridge to get to where we lived. Almost every Friday they had a stop check. We were in our 20's (and in a 5.0l Capri RS) and every Friday night we got pulled over. If we had our baby with us they were nice as pie and would let us go, if we didn't have our baby we would sit there for a half hour while they ran everything on us. Us being me and the wife. Just because you are young it does not make you a drug dealing gang member.

As far as the OP, it would depend on how small the town is you live in. If it is a larger metro area I would look into to. If it is a small town where the local pigs are going to harass you for the rest of your life you might just need to eat it and leave it alone.

[Mathius]

One thing I find interesting on this thread is that in all the "PROOF" that is posted about each persons story about how the cops lied is that there actually is no proof. In reality all that is really posted is one side of a two sided story. With out the officer to explain his side of the incident, that is all it will ever be is a one sided story. Even from the original poster we are only getting one side of story. From where I sit it is impossible to tell if his son ran the stop sign or not. There is simply not enough details in this post. We don't know who's dash cam the footage came from, perhaps the officer was ahead of the stop sign looking in his rear view mirror, if it was in fact a dash cam from the officers car, perhaps his head was turned in a different direction than his dash cam was facing.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. The way I read the OP's post, the footage showed the intersection where the stop sign violation allegedly occurred and the video showed there wasn't even a stop sign at that intersection. There's a word for that.. proof.

Unless you're implying the OP fabricated the whole post or doctored the footage. :confused:



I am not saying the original poster or his son are lying, I am just saying all the facts are not there.

If you're not calling him a liar, then what facts are missing?


The first thing that strikes me odd in this story is the fact that he said they showed the prosecutor the footage. In most states a traffic ticket is an infraction including the state of Texas. An infraction is not a crime there for there would be no prosecutor involved. It may be different in Texas but things brings out my point, none of us have all the deatails in this case to determine who was right or wrong. That being said, my suggestion is on par with most everyone else. Let it go.

You don't have traffic court in your city? Must be nice.

It doesn't matter if it's points on your license or not, you're still charged with an infraction and unless you pay the waiver you still have to go to court, and if you elect "guilty" or "no contest" you can get it taken care of, but if you elect to go with "not guilty" then you have to come back and face a judge and a prosecutor representing the cop.

At least that's how it works here. It's not bad enough you have to go to court to fight a bogus ticket, but once you plead not guilty, you're automatically assigned a separate court date, so now not only do you miss part of 1 day of work, but part of 2 days now.

What most of you guys defending the cops are missing here is most of these people in this thread are talking about traffic violations, not crimes. Can people get hurt from traffic violations? Certainly. Accidents can occur, and non accidents (drunk drivers... BAD drivers, etc.) where people are definitely injured.

But bs tickets don't help the problem and they don't make it go away and they're certainly not saving anyone's life or keeping anyone from being hurt.

It's like the cops that sit on the side of the highway. We're paying their salaries for them to sit there all day and make money for the government. And they're not doing a damn thing to stop people from speeding. People still speed on the highway all day long. They just keep an eye out for cops.

Now I absolutely can't stand red light cameras, and speed cameras, etc. I think it's a total violation of your right to face your accuser and at least here in OH, the whole system is bs. I could cite an example:

I got a red light camera fine at 3:00pm in the afternoon running down chester avenue where I was allegedly going 10 miles over the speed limit. Here's the rub. I work every day until 3:30pm. I may very well have been going down chester at 45 in a 35mph, but I most definitely wasn't doing it on a thursday at 3:00pm in the afternoon. So if the time stamp was wrong on the camera how can they prove the speed infraction was correct and the camera isn't malfunctioning? On top of that I received the fine in the mail 3 days before it was due to be paid.

I had a letter written and signed by my foreman, along with a copy of my time sheet for the week sent to the agency handling the fine (yes I said agency. A third party is handling traffic violations, not the police) In response to my letter, all they did was knock the fine down to the original cost since they had up'ed it for a late fee because you have to PAY UP FRONT BEFORE YOU CAN DEFEND YOUR CASE. A defense that requires you to again take off of work to go talk to a committee where a police officer will be attending.

But...... why did I get on this red light camera kick.... ?


If you're going to pay an officer to sit on the side of the highway and he's just going to write up tickets to make the city money and he isn't doing anything to keep people from speeding, then why not just get the damn cops off the freeways and put speed cameras up and save my tax dollars? It's not like they're taking this stuff seriously anyways.

Mathius

[kochevy67]

Don't kid yourselfs, all cops that write tickets are dicks. They don't care if they are right or wrong or if you can even get off of it. You still have to take a day off work plus court costs to get out of a ticket that you never deserved in the first place so they win regardless. That is why they don't bother to show up in court. They should make it so that if you go to court and they can't prove you did what they claim then they should have to pay all the costs and lost wages. That would stop all that BS in a heartbeat. I HATE cops because I have never met one that wasn't a *****.

When I lived in Calgary we had to cross Glenmore bridge to get to where we lived. Almost every Friday they had a stop check. We were in our 20's (and in a 5.0l Capri RS) and every Friday night we got pulled over. If we had our baby with us they were nice as pie and would let us go, if we didn't have our baby we would sit there for a half hour while they ran everything on us. Us being me and the wife. Just because you are young it does not make you a drug dealing gang member.

As far as the OP, it would depend on how small the town is you live in. If it is a larger metro area I would look into to. If it is a small town where the local pigs are going to harass you for the rest of your life you might just need to eat it and leave it alone.

Your post is a sweeping generalization, and way off the mark. As others have noted, the vast majority of law enforcement officers are professional and well-intentioned.

[ace_xp2]

Without Police on the roads watching there would be people going way over the limit all day long, and if everyone knew that cops didn't give tickets 'til you were going way over they'd be going just under way over. Which is exactly what we do now.
At the end of the day, if you don't speed and don't race lights or other stupid ****, you're extremely unlikely to run into problems.

As for Police profiling, of course they do, and they should, because it works. When they pull me over in my flat black side exhaust early Celica, I have no problem when they give me the whole nine. And I'd expect them to do the same if I dressed like a gangster, had bleary eyes, etc...
Because every now and then those people actually are gangsters, or drunks, etc.
If you aren't one, they won't catch you for it. And if you are, jail is where you belong anyways.
Although, at least in Canadian culture, we're too damn busy blaming ourselves for "letting them become a victim of society" to send them there.

[Jims78elky]

Very true the video tapes don't lie...:spank2: lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_AZ3J9gtFY

[showa]

I HATE cops because I have never met one that wasn't a *****.


.

Now thta's some funny sh##.....

As a "PIG" I thank you for being honest....

[kochevy67]

Hey Showa next time you need help the last thing you should do is call the cops, being as how you hate them and all.

[ace_xp2]

I think you may have your names mixed up, especially since Showa wouldn't be calling for the police so much as he would be for backup...

[parsonsj]

That's enough fun for one thread.