Red Bull 1968 Charger AWD Hemi 6 speed

[Motorcitydak]

Hey guys, Ive been on this site for a little while now and have been putting off making a build thread about my car. I did not want to put it up until I was actually doing something cool with it. My plans are very lofty but anyone can say they are doing something to a car or buying crazy parts for it. Its another thing to actually start the fab work to get something crazy done to a car.

As you can see in the title, I have a 1968 Charger which has been my absolute favorite car for many years. Ive had it for almost 2 years, it will be 2 years this june. I got it in rough shape just like most of you guys did and Ive slowly been bringing it back to more of a rust and damage free state. The plans for it are to be as light as possible, if it does not need to be there to be legal on the road or improve performance then it will not be on the car. Ill have 2 racing seats in the front and the stock bench in the rear so I can still hold 4 people. A very basic stereo with my ipod connected to a small amp and probably 4 speakers. No HVAC, thats what windows are for.

The drivetrain will be a mid mounted 5.7 truck Hemi, aluminum A-833 (79.5lbs!) 4 speed, full floating ford 9 inch rear from Moser, 3.23 gears, tru trac rear diff. This is where it starts to get really interesting, i have a nv 147 transfer case from a 2004 jeep grand cherokee, the front driveshaft, front diff and front CV shafts from a Cadillac STS, front knuckles are from a ZO6 and Ill use rear hubs from a c5/c6 re drilled for 5x4.5. Wheels and tires will be 18x10's with 315/30's on all 4 corners.

because of the really wide front tires and the fact that I will have AWD, Im thinking the front camber will not be as severe as an RWD car. Ill probably run normal road setup here, maybe -1 degree with hopefully decent camber gain. Ive set caster at 7.

The reason Ive put off making my own thread is because up until this past weekend, my car has been really boring. Just another '68 Charger being revived. I did all the standard rust removal stuff, new floor boards, new full quarter panels on both sides, replaced the cowl because of a big hole in it.... I also shaved off the drip rails and put some frame connectors in but still, nothing too interesting. It was a Charger with a various array of odd parts laying around it, fortunately that all changed. I was finally able to start modifying the car to be what I want. I started to fab up the front end which among other things, has to hold the STS front diff. The stock K member would never work for me so I just had to make my own.

Forgive me for being lazy but Im just going to copy and paste my progress from another site Ive got a build thread going on

Ok folks, I have a few days here to get some work done on the car. I want to be able to bolt the LCA's onto something by the end of this weekend. I got started today with a decent start, first order of business was making a stand for my new tubing bender. Ive seen bent stuff for years online and at shows but its still really cool to do it yourself for the first time with your own equipment.

The shot is a little smoky, I think its from just after I welded of may be from when I had my bike running, not sure tho (i guess if i cant remember, maybe the smoke is from something else.....)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1288-1.jpg

I had to ream out the LCA hole on the ZO6 knuckles since the racing lower ball joints are fawkin huge! This is a PITA if you are curious, my drill hates me now, wont even make eye contact. Somethin about really high load and super low RPM id guess

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1290-1.jpg

Tossed the front passenger stuff together just to check it out

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1292-1.jpg

After that, I slid the front diff and CV's into place. I decided to move the front wheels 2 inches forward from the stock location. I did this for a few reasons; to give me more room under the hood/cowl for the motor, increase WB for high speed stability, to further help me out in getting a 50/50 weight distribution and to get the wheels closer to the front so the front end doesn't seem so damn long

I marked out the new front end WMS distance, its 63.5 or 63.25, i cant really remember which one rite now. Stock was around 59 iirc. I guess I must have been smokin somethin....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1293-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1294-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1295-1.jpg

Now this little beauty, i've been thinking about this for a long time. Its a way for me to finally weigh the shell of the car. Its a 10 ton pancake cylinder from HF and a 1000psi gauge, total cost is just under $200 and it will weigh up to 2200#. Actually it will give you a reading in PSI which must then be calculated into lbs but it is still quite helpful. I used it on the shell today but Im really not sure I can trust it, if its correct then the entire shell only weighs 600 pounds. Id be very happy with that but I just doubt it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1296-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1297-1.jpg

Then I lifted the front diff up into place. I know my methods are very crude using wood but its cheap and it works

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1300-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1299-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1301-1.jpg

and I finally got to make my first real incision on the car! Ive been looking forward to this for quite a while. Up until now, everything I have done has just been fixing this or replacing that back to stock just about. This is my first real and invasive mod to the car that the purist's will totally hate!

I had to cut the front frame rail to allow clearance for the CV boot (how many car builders get to say that?!). Where I ended up cutting is rite where the rear stock K member bolt was so I had to take it out, there is no going back from here!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1302-1.jpg

After that, I spent a few hours getting the front passenger side into place. I was hoping to build more of a K member for the front, but that is just not possible with the front diff in the way. Ill have to make it an H, the good news is that the rear tube will fit rite under the pinion and I can hopefully clear the crank pulley of the motor when ever I get another one of those

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1303-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1304-1.jpg

Well thats all I have to show off for today, Im headed to bed soon then its back at it again tomorrow/actually later today. Hopefully I can get my H member goin

Ill wrap up what I was able to get done over the past few days. Unfortunately I was not able to get as much accomplished as I wanted to. Ideally, I would have my new crossmember welded into the front of the car with the completed LCA brackets in place so I would be able to bolt the LCA's on and start putting together a game plan for the uppers. Im about 80% there but like I said, just not quite done.

I started getting my H member in place after I positioned the LCA, got to use the bender for the first time which was slightly nerve racking just trying to make sure I had everything right

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1307-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1308-1.jpg

The under crossmember clearance looks good, rite around 7 inches

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1311-1.jpg

Then I got the other side bent up which made me even more nervous than the first bend

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1309-1.jpg

Rear tube went into place then a couple ones to tie everything together. I tacked the forward tube into the frame rail then tacked all these pieces together. This shot also shows the LCA brackets tacked into place. You can see that I slotted the mounting holes. I will be using eccentric bolts to allow for some adjustability and alignment changes. That job was rather simple but still a big PITA. I drilled the two 1/2 inch holes 3/4 inch apart and a smaller one in the middle then used a 1/2 inch carbide burr in the drill to connect the two. The slots are 1.25 long allowing for a nice amount of alignment adjustment

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1314-1.jpg

After I had those mocked into place, I cut the tack welds holding the forward tube in place and dropped the entire crossmember out of the car to finish everything up. Here is what I ended up with

Drivers side mounts, not quite finished yet. I got the outer brackets in but still need to do the inners and tie the two together

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1316-1.jpg

here are the passenger side ones, they are just about done but not quite

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1318-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

I also started hacking into the inner fenders and front frame rails. I will have to bulge up the frame rails over the CV shafts as well as the steering rack for strength as well as clearance. Also, I did not like the way the factory tied the sections of the frame rails together, just pinch welded together sheet metal. Im cutting off the flanges and welding the edges back together for a cleaner and stronger front end.

Passenger side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1320-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1321-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF13221-1.jpg

and the drivers side. I cut the battery box area out because I have no use for it plus it was rusted thru. One funny thing is that I found out that I had a mouse nest inside this frame rail. I got to find that out while cutting the hole for the CV shaft, I set the dam thing on fire with my grinder then pulled it out the hole I cut for the rear H member tube. Thankfully there was no remnants of the culprit rodent, still odd that it was able to get in there....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF13231-1.jpg

another odd thing I noted a few months ago was the fact that my factory inner fender brace was never actually welded to the UCA bucket. This was nice for me because it made it easier for me to get the UCA bucket off the car

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF13241-1.jpg

Unfortunately, that is where Im at rite now. Near future plans call for me finishing up the LCA brackets and getting the H back into place. I will be painting the ends of the tubes with weld thru primer because I do not want that bare metal rusting inside the frame rail where I will never see it again. Ill also be getting some POR-15 paint to coat everything with. I just do not like rattle can stuff, it does not impress me at all and these are things that I will not allow to rust

[Motorcitydak]

Being called the Silver Fox, it will obviously be silver. I think the name fits really well esp with the whole MILF thing goin on now. She is 43 and Im 24, while she is not as small and light as some of the newer models, her curves are sexy as hell and that is why I had to have her/it. I really fell in love with these cars for the grill or lack there of pretty much. From a distance, you cannot even see it. Just a gaping hole that seems like it is used to swallow every other car that unfortunately gets in front of it. I for some reason have decided against running the stock grill however in favor of the 69 Charger 500 grill as this rendering shows

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/50068a4ver2-1.jpg

Here are a few shots of the car when I got it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/zzz-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/zzzz-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/zz-1.jpg

and when I brought it home, it has a fiberglass lift off 6 pack scoop hood. I also have fiberglass fenders for it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/allmine-1.jpg

New floors

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF0770-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF0769-1.jpg

Full Brazilian

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF05721-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF0556-1.jpg

Rear axle; dont worry, I just taped over the spindles. I had to use electrical tape since I was out of masking tape but did not want paint on that part obviously

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF0740-1.jpg

Drivers side quarter

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF0948-1.jpg

Moving day! Had to take it to my new house, sadly I went to a very small 2 car attached garage. Its an upgrade from the dirt floor and a tent tho

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1143-1.jpg

Passenger side quarter

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/DSCF1236-1.jpg

[bonecrrusher]

Damn.... thats awesome!

Will this be full time 4wd?

So I'm assuming this will connect to a trans - then have a transfer case behind it?

Not like an Audi/Subaru 4wd setup...

[L & H Kustoms]

Nice project Looking forward to seeing the car as you make progress :cheers:

[Motorcitydak]

Yep, full time 4wd. Well, technically AWD. The 147 transfer case uses a gerotor pump (like any engine oil pump) to apply hydraulic pressure to the front driveshaft. The amount of power going to the front is variable from 0-50% based upon what the transfer case senses as far as slippage from the front or rear. That is all done hydraulically inside the transfer case, no need for any wheel speed sensors, computer monitoring or electrical motors needed.

Yeah, Im still figuring out exactly how to connect the trans and transfer case. Im probably going to do a semi-divorced setup where the transfer case will mate to the trans but have its own crossmember to hold it in place

[RS_Customs]

Cool Project! Hope everything works out, it will be nice to see and awd muscle car!

Robert

[THE TECH]

Neat project! What kind of power can that front drive setup handle? Might it be a limiting factor?

[monteboy84]

The drivetrain will be a mid mounted 5.7 truck Hemi, aluminum A-833 (79.5lbs!) 4 speed, full floating ford 9 inch rear from Moser

After that, I slid the front diff and CV's into place. I decided to move the front wheels 2 inches forward from the stock location. I did this for a few reasons; to give me more room under the hood/cowl for the motor, increase WB for high speed stability, to further help me out in getting a 50/50 weight distribution and to get the wheels closer to the front so the front end doesn't seem so damn long


Maybe I'm reading wrong, but wouldn't having the engine mid-mounted mean it's not under the hood anymore? Just trying to understand your plans a little better, looks like an interesting project.

-matt

[speedfreak68]

Glad I'm not going with that paint design any more. lol. I had DS do that up for me a long time ago. Haha Keep up the good work, the AWD will be Awesome!

[Nessumsar]

Oh my... Charger + AWD + 315s = Beast!

Really awesome project you are taking on, can't wait to see more progress.

[Motorcitydak]

Neat project! What kind of power can that front drive setup handle? Might it be a limiting factor?

Ive heard of guys bumping up the power of the stock STS which weighs around 4000 pounds to 5-600 and no one mentioned failures of the front end components. Im going to be running 4-500hp so I will just have to see how it all holds up and keep my fingers crossed

[Motorcitydak]

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but wouldn't having the engine mid-mounted mean it's not under the hood anymore? Just trying to understand your plans a little better, looks like an interesting project.

-matt

It will be technically mid engined because the motor is between the center lines of the front and rear wheels. The motor will sit somewhere around being half under the cowl. You will see maybe the front 4 cylinders. The crank pulley should fall somewhere around the rear tube of my crossmember

Speedfreak68, did you have that rendering done? Im not trying to steal it, I found it one day over on dodgecharger.com and really liked it. Mine will not be exactly like that, no drip rail molding, front splitter and different stripes, etc..... I just like that pic because it is close to what I want. Its actually been my background on my computer since I saw it.

[speedfreak68]

Lol, I wasn't saying that you were trying to steal it, I was just suprised to see it that all. Mine won't be much like that anymore, I've kinda ditched the idea of the 500 grill, and i'm just going to go with one wide stripe instead of two, there are several small changes I'm doing too, it was just there for an idea. Apparently you and I just have fantastic taste in car designs! lol Keep up the good work,I'll be keeping my eye on this build!

[2blownstangs]

Can't wait to see more of this one bro.

[cobraguy65]

Awesome project!

[monteboy84]

It will be technically mid engined because the motor is between the center lines of the front and rear wheels. The motor will sit somewhere around being half under the cowl. You will see maybe the front 4 cylinders. The crank pulley should fall somewhere around the rear tube of my crossmember

Gotcha.

Just something to consider, but scrub radius will be pretty important with power to the front wheels now, in order to avoid torque steer.

-matt

[Bryce]

Cool project!

[Motorcitydak]

Gotcha.

Just something to consider, but scrub radius will be pretty important with power to the front wheels now, in order to avoid torque steer.

-matt

Good call. I will have to check my scrub, Im not sure what it will be with the wheels I have. They are cheap tho and thats why I got em, if needed, Ill get some custom ones down the road. I just want to get it on the road first

[Motown 454]

Being called the Silver Fox, it will obviously be silver. I think the name fits really well esp with the whole MILF thing goin on now. She is 43 and Im 24, while she is not as small and light as some of the newer models, her curves are sexy as hell and that is why I had to have her/it. I really fell in love with these cars for the grill or lack there of pretty much. From a distance, you cannot even see it. Just a gaping hole that seems like it is used to swallow every other car that unfortunately gets in front of it. I for some reason have decided against running the stock grill however in favor of the 69 Charger 500 grill as this rendering shows

Steve I love the explanation for the name. This is an awesome project .

[Motorcitydak]

Hey guys, i have a little update for my car. I spent about 7 hours in the garage this sunday with really not too much to show for it. I was doing the tedious little pieces that I needed to finish up my LCA mounts which took a bit of time for each one. I also made taco gussets for the crossmember and welded everything up. My limiting factor was my welder having a 30% duty cycle. Ended up sitting around quite a bit at the end with my thumb up my ass hoping my welder would give me some more time. I didn't quite finish up all the welds but its dam close to being done. Heres what I have

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/DSCF1328-1.jpg

Taco's from a 4 inch wide strip of 1/8 plate bent around the tubes

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/DSCF1331-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/DSCF1330-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/DSCF1332-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/04/DSCF1333-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

I have a little update to show finally, I have been messing around with the placement of the crossmember. Ill tack weld it in, take a measurement and maybe move it a little to get it just where I want. I think its in a really good spot now so I went ahead and tossed the control arms, knuckles, hubs and CV shafts in there together with the front diff so I can start getting an idea of where the diff will sit and how to mount it. I do know that I will build a few brackets that will be removable from the car for the diff. It will be mounted with soft rubber bushings to allow the diff to move just a little so it can cope with the power input and hopefully not blow up. Here are a few shots of the front setup

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/DSCF1334-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/DSCF1335-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/DSCF1336-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/05/DSCF1337-1.jpg

[Dolmaner]

awesome project

[mjds]

this is soooo cool, its going to be one radical street machine!

[rfalker1]

this is cool :) love the work and where you got the name. MILF's hahahahahah

[bonecrrusher]

Lookin good!

[Motorcitydak]

Hey guys I actually did something on the car again!! I had been doing something here and there once in a great while but nothing worth noting. I built a couple brackets to hold the front diff in place and finally laid it in place. I used some 1x1 and 1/8 inch plate to make this. Its sitting in the car completely supported by the brackets I built which are obviously not done yet. I centered the diff/extension shaft in the car only to remember later that the CV shafts are not the same length, drivers side is longer. That means that I need to move the diff about another 3/4 of an inch outward to the passenger side then I should be all set. The bushings I used for this are good ole rubber ones. They are great for a universal application, inside diameter is 1/2 inch, outside is 1 inch. They come in a 3 inch wide mounting width but I cut em down to fit in the 1 1/2 inch long tube to be more compact. I really wanted rubber instead of poly because the front diff will see possibly more than its fair share of shock load from the transfer case and Id like it if it didn't kersplode when I hammer it. Anyway, thats about enough of me ramblin' on, here are some pics

Front diff brackets not quite done yet
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1454-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1455-1.jpg

and a few of it all sitting in the car. You can see the crazy amount of negative camber I have going on here because the front diff is too close to the center, once I move it this will be back to normal
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1456-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1457-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1458-1.jpg

Kinda bummed because I spent the time bending the tube for the front bracket then I ended up not being able to use it. That part will be cut off because it sits way too low and Ill just brace the bracket I built
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1459-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1460-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/07/DSCF1461-1.jpg

[RicerwannaB]

Man, This project is great! I cant wait to see it finished!

[Ppd1979]

Looks good

[SickSpeedMonte]

I love this project! You have some guts dude.

Are you going to add a couple more ears for those front diff bushings in the last picture? If not, the bolts will deflect in the rubber bushings and put a moment on the two ears that are there.

Keep the pics coming!! I'll be keeping my eye on this one.

[devwil68]

one heck of a setup!

[Motorcitydak]

Are you going to add a couple more ears for those front diff bushings in the last picture? If not, the bolts will deflect in the rubber bushings and put a moment on the two ears that are there.



Yep, they will be finished up. I just did those mostly for mock up. I have to remove the ears that are there now because the diff actually needs to be moved about 3/4 of an inch outward. Ill finish em up nicely once its in the rite place

[senor_camaro]

this is the most awesome build I have seen thus far, I love 68 chargers. its good to see fabrication of your caliber on a car like that, wow. makes me wanna get rid of my camaros and get a charger again, :)

[Agalaviz2]

this car is gonna be sick! keep it up!

-Andy

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks guys!

I moved the front diff over about 3/4 of an inch. I had to cut a little bit of a cooling fin off the bottom and a bit out of the taco gusset to allow the diff to be where it needs to be but its sitting in there great now. I think Im going to put the other brackets on there to hold it in place for now but Ill wait till after I put the motor in there somewhere to burn em in for good. Im thinking that if needed I can move the diff forward slightly to free up some more space. I plan on having the crank pulley somewhere around the center axle shaft, probably just behind it

[irregal83]

Awesome build man. i was just tellin my buddy the other day that i wanted to do an awd setup in a protouring car. where you located?

[Motorcitydak]

Im in Michigan, about 30 miles north of Detroit which in the south east corner of the state hence the 'Motorcity' thing. I lived in detroit until the day I turned 19

[Motorcitydak]

Alright guys, I got what I thought was quite a bit of work done to the car last night. It really does not look like much tho. I was in the garage for about 8 hours and don't have much to show for it but what I got done was pretty important. Also, the Fox is getting another present. Anyone want to guess what will be coming in a few days?

I finally got my front suspension worked out so it was time to build the upper control arm mounts. I built the brackets out of 1/8 cold roll, 3 inch wide.

Started out by measuring out where the mounts should be then welded in a piece a 1/2inch all thread. I marked on them where the mounts go then secured my rod ends there and started putting brackets around them.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1482-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1483-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1484-1.jpg

These are the rod ends Im using, 1/2x1/2 forged chromo ends from ruff stuff specialties.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1485-1.jpg

The ends mounted in place. I want to run spacers between the brackets so Ill just make some to the width I need.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1486-1.jpg

I started adding in the brackets. Its a little tedious which is why I took so long just doing 8 brackets

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1487-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1488-1.jpg

Passenger side is done

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1489-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1490-1.jpg

Cleaned up the drivers side frame rail so I can add the brackets here

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1491-1.jpg

Used the same process to mock this side up, heres the finished product on the drivers side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1493-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1492-1.jpg

Then I tossed everything else back on and went to bed

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1496-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1497-1.jpg

Well thats all for now. Next time Ill be building my own upper control arms

[66rusty]

That is one killer build.

[wellis77]

Hmmmmm. If I guess correctly do I win something???

Looks good Steve! Looking forward to seeing the control arms as you get building. I may have to build some uppers myself depending on whether or not my Shockwaves fit through the uppers I have/plan to get from Joe's racing.

[Motorcitydak]

Haha, no Will you are not allowed to vote since you have insider information.

If you have to build your own control arms, I have the 7 degree ball joint reamer and just ordered the 10 degree. You can use em when you come back. It would be nice to be able to bolt control arms on but its just easier to get exactly what you want if you build it yourself. Also I spaced my ends out a little just because of the extra load they will see with both braking and acceleration going thru the front wheels. The ends are 10.5 inches apart.

[wellis77]

Thanks Steve. I can probably use that for my rear lowers since the rear lower BJ is in the spindle. I agree, it's nice being able to build it exactly as you need it. I also like that you are using spacers on the outsides of the front ends. I am considering something similar for my rear uppers in order to have some caster adjustment, just in case it needs to be dialed in...

Did you're new toy get shipped? Pretty exciting stuff man.

Oh, I almost just asked a question that gave it away... Not cool!

[Motorcitydak]

I had another night in the garage last night. Again I spent a good 8-9 hours in there with not what I feel is a ton of results to show but anyways, here is what I was up to

I built the ball joint side of the UCA's with 2 pieces of 1/4 plate and a piece of 3/8 in between em to give me a decent thickness and used my brand new 10 degree ball joint reamer which worked awesome. I also put the rod ends back in their place and started throwing 1/8 plate at em

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1498-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1499-1.jpg

First piece in, I wanted to have one part bent and one straight to keep the rod end straight and also let the horizontal pieces of the control arm wider to better cope with the stress

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1500-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1501-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1502-1.jpg

Then after another hour or two I had the passenger side arm boxed up and I sanded down to welds to make em pretty

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1503-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1504-1.jpg

Then I put it back on, it was so nice to finally be able to cycle the suspension and steering

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1505-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1506-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1507-1.jpg

Using the same technique I built one for the drives side too

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1508-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1510-1.jpg

Thats all for now folks. I think now I have to get working on my pushrod suspension and also figure out my steering.

[Throttle]

I have to Sub to this one.. Very Different..

[craigs73]

pretty neat things your doing here cant wait to see this thing in action

[rustomatic]

You're doing awesome work--keep the freaky ideas flowing!

[Bryce]

Thats some good looking geometry! HAHAHA.

[Zanie]

Awesome build!
If there was an award for "Most Craftsman Tools" in a build thread, you would win it!
Are you doing all that welding with the #20569 110 volt welder?

[Motorcitydak]

Dunno if thats the part number for the welder, Ive had it for I think 7 years but yeah its a 110 volt. It does awesome work on 1/8 stuff that Im using. It would be nice to have something better but I really do not see a need since all I weld is 1/8 plate and under

Yeah bryce, I think the geometry is pretty good for me doing it all with a blind fold on

[Kennedy]

Awesome work. Some day I would love to do an AWD PT car. Do the gear ratios match in the front and rear diffs?

[SS PUNISHER]

This has already been done!!! Cooter made the general 4x4 in an episode!! LOL
AWESOME BUILD!!!!

[Motorcitydak]

Awesome work. Some day I would love to do an AWD PT car. Do the gear ratios match in the front and rear diffs?


Thanks guys!


I do not have the diff for the rear yet but it will match the front which is 3.23



This has already been done!!! Cooter made the general 4x4 in an episode!! LOL
AWESOME BUILD!!!!

Lol, well I guess since its already been done Ill just scrap this and move on to my next idea :)

[Motorcitydak]

Well I have some good and bad news. First, the good news. I am currently working on version 2.0 of my UCA's and mounts. I had 2 problems with the old UCA's. They were set back from the knuckle and that meant that the rim hit the arm while steering to about 25 degrees which is really not enough and it would be really hard to make a tight turn. The easy way to fix that would be to run narrower rims but there is no way I would do that. The other problem is that the arm was in the way of any possibility I had of getting a coilover to the lower control arm. I fixed both of those problems by building a new arm. It is not done yet because I wanted to build the sides then check that it fit how I wanted. Ill wrap it up and make the drivers side as well next week. Here is a shot of the new control arm. Obviously I still need to make a new bracket to put of the frame. I just did this to place the rod ends and start the arm

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1522-1.jpg

And the result!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1518-1.jpg

the old result

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1515-1.jpg

Also after wrestling with the wheel/tire, I was curious just how much it all weighs, 18x10 rim and 315 30 tire is 57 pounds all together. I was pretty surprised by that, wished it was a lot lower. I weighed the tire and that alone is 29.5lbs

Now the bad news. I have to make a Dr's appointment because I somehow got a stupid little spark in my left eye even tho I had safety glasses on. This isn't the first time this has happened but usually Im able to get crap out myself with a wet q tip. This will be the 2nd time Ive had to have a Dr take it out.

The other bad news is that I cannot get a consistent measurement on this car to save my life. Measuring the front frame rails from anything on the passenger area of the car says that the one side is around 1/2 inch longer than the other. I even used the corner of the rockers to the edge of the frame rails and it is off. Im not sure if I should be concerned by this. I know old cars are not perfect but I expected way better. Im now measuring off the old mounting plate for the leaf springs and just measuring forward to get something I can rely on a little more

[wellis77]

Nice work on getting the extra room you needed. I am no help on the measurements, but you can always cut it up and start fresh...

[monteboy84]

Now the bad news. I have to make a Dr's appointment because I somehow got a stupid little spark in my left eye even tho I had safety glasses on. This isn't the first time this has happened but usually Im able to get crap out myself with a wet q tip. This will be the 2nd time Ive had to have a Dr take it out.

Next time try one of those strong pen magnets if you get steel in your eye, it's worked for me 3 or 4 times, heals nice too :smoke:

-matt

[Motorcitydak]

Nice work on getting the extra room you needed. I am no help on the measurements, but you can always cut it up and start fresh...

Yeah the extra room will make a nice amount of space for a certain coil over


Next time try one of those strong pen magnets if you get steel in your eye, it's worked for me 3 or 4 times, heals nice too :smoke:

-matt

I just heard about that, its a good idea. I think Ill try to pick one up and see what happens. Im still going to go to the Dr for this one just because its been in there for so long. Last time the Dr showed my pics of guys that did that and waited so long that the piece rusted in their eye so if this one is rusting they mite have to take some tissue out as well and maybe give me some anti biotic eye drops.

So what do you guys use for eye protection? I used those clear safety glasses for maybe a year with no other problems but after this I think I should upgrade. I have a face shield but I can barely see thru that one after all the sparks it has caught. I noticed that the glasses didn't catch anything and stayed clear like the sparks were not able to melt the plastic and stick in the way they did on the shield. I saw the bionic face shield that sears has and i liked the looks of it just unsure how it will perform

Also I finally remembered to subscribe to my own thread so if anyone asks anything it won't take me a month to see it and reply anymore

[ramlinman]

you don't have to buy the hole unit everytime the face lense gets beyond being able to see through it. you can buy the lense by itself. its alot cheaper and less painful tha going to the doctor

[ndm68]

cool build

[ace_xp2]

I've had luck with the older style ones that look like goggles:
http://www.adhesive.com/accessory_detail_AA1GOGGCHSP__safety.html
you want ones with the hardened lenses,those were just the first I could find.

[Motorcitydak]

After a fun moment at the eye Dr, my eye is healing well now and it feels fine. I got a pair of goggles just like those for the work I did tonight, I just did not really like them against my face the whole time. That being said, my eyes are free of metal this time so they did their job but i think im still going to get a new shield.

I got some more work done tonight. I got a few measuring tapes with little magnets in the end of the tape and stuck those to the front side of the rear leaf spring mount. I measured forward from there and realized that the rockers were what was throwing me off, they are different lengths. I measured to my control arm mounts, ball joints and the front of the frame. Thankfully all that stuff is perfect.

This is where I measured off of

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1523-1.jpg

This is the front of the passenger side rocker

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1524-1.jpg

and the drivers side, this is what threw me off so bad. I should also point out that I was not using this exact point to measure off of, rather the corner of the rocker itself that you can see in the middle left side of the passenger side picture. I just assumed that that part of the car would be square, its not

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1529-1.jpg

After seeing that, I checked my rear LCA brackets

Passenger side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1526-1.jpg

and drivers side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1531-1.jpg

Next up was to confirm placement of the lower ball joints

passenger side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1527-1.jpg

and drivers

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1532-1.jpg

Also checked to the front of the frame rails

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1540-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1538-1.jpg

After those came back good I was still worried maybe it wasn't square under the car so I compared across the car using these holes in the rear frame

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1542-1.jpg

To the ball joints

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1543-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1541-1.jpg

I also checked to the rear LCA bracket, that one was great too. Relieved, I starting making some progress. I cut out some more of the inner fender since I won't be needing that anyways then I got to work building the drivers side UCA and the new brackets to hold my new mounting locations. I got the 4 new brackets in place and I also just got some 1/2 cone rod end spacers. They measure just under a half inch so I did not space my brackets nearly as far as I did last time. They are more compact now so hopefully they will not be in the way of anything. I also was able to box in one of the upper control arms but I ran out of time and 4 1/2 cut off wheels so that will have to wait until next time

The semi complete upper arm

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1547-1.jpg

and the finished one. I think Im going to leave the welds alone this time and not other sanding them, it doesn't improve strength anyways

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1546-1.jpg

and the new brackets. I was not able to cut out the now un-needed rear brackets yet because Im out of cut off wheels but they will be removed

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1548-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/09/DSCF1544-1.jpg

[wellis77]

That's solved, now get back to building man!

[TT302Z28]

Do you know anyone who works for a Hospital? My wife is a RN and brings me her used (cleaned!) safety glasses. They are clear and have flanges top and bottom that fit to your forehead and cheeks.

Man the metal in the eye thing sucks. The worst I ever had it was during my first port and polish head work I took off my goggles and blew into the port. I was rewarded with a face full of metal.

Incredible build, keep the progress coming.

[craigs73]

cool this is gonna be a bad ass ride... glad your eyes ok. i have had stuff in mine luckly i have gotten it out. i have the same luck with stuff in my eye even when i have safety glasses on... was thinking of getting a full face shield

[ryeguy2006a]

Very cool build man.

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks everyone. Next up is probably to get a steering rack and front shocks in there then get the engine, trans and transfer case in there. I am also going to start working on the Watt's link for the rear



Do you know anyone who works for a Hospital? My wife is a RN and brings me her used (cleaned!) safety glasses. They are clear and have flanges top and bottom that fit to your forehead and cheeks.

Man the metal in the eye thing sucks. The worst I ever had it was during my first port and polish head work I took off my goggles and blew into the port. I was rewarded with a face full of metal.

Incredible build, keep the progress coming.

Im in hospitals every day. My fiance is an RN and Im a paramedic. We have goggles on our trucks and Im sure I could get a pair but I only paid 4 bucks and seal rite to my face but I think Ill feel a lot better having a face shield

[jgpclone]

very cool build man

[olason]

Are you going to use the boxed control arms you have pictured or go to a DOM tubing piece? Also I know it is more design time, but if you can't fit a coil-over into that pocket, try a bell-crank or a leverage arm system to connect to the coil-over so it takes up less space passing down to the lower control arm. Also check out the Nissan GTR suspension. It uses a fork to go over the drive shaft in the front suspension, which I have thought it a great idea as well.

[Bryce]

Steve,

How did you ever heal up?

Hows is the project coming?

[Motorcitydak]

Hey Bryce, yeah I did. A quick trip to the Dr and some antibiotic gel had me all better.

I actually had not touched the car in a while until last night. Ive been ordering more parts and pieces slowly as I can. Will just got something pretty big for me, Ill be getting that when he comes back over here next month. I just finished up my other upper control arm.

Now Im working on how to suspend the car. I was thinking about using a custom coil over like Will's car based on the Viper rear coil over with its horse shoe lower mount to go over the CV shaft. Instead of that, I will be using something way cooler. I just got some aluminum swedged tubes and rod ends along with some 6061 rectangle bar. Ill post up a picture of the sketches Ive been working on in a little bit, it will explain it better

[THEBLUE1]

have you thought of looking at a dodge magnum all wheel drive setup?

[SRD art]

Insane! Congrats on working out of the box, this project kicks tail!

[Motorcitydak]

have you thought of looking at a dodge magnum all wheel drive setup?

Yes I did but the chrysler stuff is way too complicated and expensive for my tastes. Not to mention heavy and also uses an auto trans. There is no way I would put an auto in this ride. I have to be able to jam my own gears. Also that setup mounts and locates the front diff for me which I do not like, I would rather put everything where I want it


Insane! Congrats on working out of the box, this project kicks tail!

Thanks man

Sorry for the bad picture but this is the front end Im working on. Its a pushrod setup. I will have 6 inches of wheel travel, 3 up and 3 down but because of the ratio with the arms I want to build I will be able to use ridetech's 6.9 inch travel coil overs. The shocks will sit inside the engine bay and just above the front diff. Since the engine has to go thru the firewall, it will not be needing that space. I thought about making the motion ratio match the wheel travel 1:1 but if I over drive it slightly I can have better control of wheel motion

The ****ty photo shows the LCA, frame rail, rocker and push rod. Its all at ride height, full compression and full droop

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/11/DSCF1576-1.jpg

[wellis77]

Nice work Steve! Looking forward to seeing that come together.

[Motorcitydak]

Big thanks to Will for being the middle man for getting this. The guy decided to ship it to the wrong address so I went to pick it up a few days ago. Also it seems like Will happened upon a power plant with a pair or extra cylinders on the front and different bolt pattern at the back. That left him with a brand new bell housing that he could no longer use, I decided to be nice and take that off his hands. Im about to start work on the push rod thing for the front end and will eventually get around to the trans but I could not let it pass up since I have less than 4 figures in a Viper spec T-56

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1598-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1602-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

I actually did things to the car today! Its stuff that I have been thinking about and planning for a very long time. I had to modify my LCA's with a new bracket and start setting up my push rod suspension. Im really excited about this, I cannot wait to see the car on the ground with coilover's no where near where they belong. I can already see some onlookers scratching their heads. Ill let the pics do most of the talking here but I worked out the motion ratio's so that the stock travels slightly more than the tire. I plan on using a 6.9 inch travel shock to control 6 inches or travel, 3 up and 3 down. I doubt I will use all that travel especially on a track where I will firm it all up

Here is the drivers side LCA with the new bracket on it. I finally cut off those huge coil spring buckets so it will clear my wheels. Im not 100% sure that I will run these LCA's or just use them for mock up then build a jig off them and make my own. Ill deal with that later tho

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1603-1.jpg

This is the passenger side in place with the push rod attached. The rods are longer than the ones I am actually going to run. I just bought these in a lot on ebay but ill be ordering ones that are 3 inches shorter which will put the bolt just above the UCA

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1604-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1605-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1606-1.jpg

The rockers are 3/8x1 1/2 6061. These ride on 3/4x3/4x9/16 needle bearings in the frame pivot. I just have to build the brackets to hold those in place, it will mount rite at the inside edge of the frame rail. I also have a piece of 3/4x1 60601 that I will use to transfer the weight between the pieces. I just did not have the time to do that today and I want to setup my rods and the coilover mount (which is going to be really cool)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1607-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1608-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/DSCF1609-1.jpg

I cycled the suspension and steering, no problems with this setup so Im really happy. Its just another set closer to being back on the ground......

[wellis77]

Sweet!!!

[Bryce]

Awesome! I am excited to see the coilover placement?

[Uneek68]

cant wait to see this bad boy on the road!

[Motorcitydak]

Its aggravating going this long between updates but I did some more things.

Big thanks to some of you guys on the board who helped me figure out that needle bearings were not the best for my application. I got this stuff from McMaster

1/2 shoulder screws and graphite bronze bushings. My only problem is that they counted the 1/8 thick flange in with the length of the bushing, I did not think they would so I will be getting different ones but they will do for mock up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1646-1.jpg

and then I added these to the frame to hold the rockers. All the brackets will be braced once I am sure everything is where it needs to be

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1647-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1649-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1650-1.jpg

Next up I will be building the shock crossmember which I think will turn out really slick, more 6061 is on the way for that!

[Motorcitydak]

Here is a quick mock up of the crossmember I will be building. It could be a lot easier if someone didn't get the bright idea to put a big dumb differential in my way. There will be 2 of these, the other about 2 inches forward of where this one is. I need to have a decent amount of clearance between the two so the coilovers will clear the inside. You can see where i plan on connecting the two sides with several 3/8 bolts, I will have sleeves on the bolts to properly space them. As for the frame side, I plan on sandwiching the 6061 with 1/8 steel plate and clamping it in place with more bolts. That way it can be easily removable if/when needed. There is about 3/4 of an inch clearance between the diff and crossmember. The dots in the center are where the shocks will mount

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1652-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1651-1.jpg

[DTM Racing]

Are you putting the engine in the trunk?

[Bryce]

Steve,

I owe you some data. I will get that ASAP.

[dug]

this is a pretty cool project. I was bummed when I saw the last update was today, I wanted to see more work.

[Motorcitydak]

Are you putting the engine in the trunk?

Yes, LOL. No not quite. It is just going back thru the firewall, the crank pulley will sit just behind the front diff. That aspect is not any more radical then some other builds you see on here.

Bryce, no problem. Im sure you are just as busy as I am but I greatly appreciate your help

Dug, I wish I was further along too. Its all just one day at a time tho, someday it will be on the road

[wellis77]

I wish I was further along too. Its all just one day at a time tho, someday it will be on the road

Amen to that! Looking forward to seeing more Steve.

[emilio impala]

Amazing work!

[Motorcitydak]

I started hacking into some fresh 6061 I just got in. Its an effort to turn that cardboard thing I made into something that will support my stupid car. I upped the size a little, it was a last minute change I made while I was doing the check out on onlinemetals.com where I get almost all my stuff from. The template I did was 2 inch wide, I changed to 2.5 inch wide, .250 thick 6061 bar. I also got im my new, longer brass bushings from McMaster so I put those into the rockers, no pics of that. Its just not too exciting. I have a few shots of the shock crossmember Im making. In my humble opinion, I think it is the single coolest thing I have ever made myself. Its not done but about half way there, I just ran outta time

Here is my crossmember kit, the bar is 3/8 inside and 1/8 wall 6061, very strong and super light weight. I also highly recommend buying your bolts from Tractor Supply if you have access to one. They sell bolts by the pound. All the bolts you see here were about 4.5 pounds at $4.50/pound=WIN. Home Depot or Lowe's would have been $100+ id guess.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1662-1.jpg

Next I got to cuttin' and made 'em holy. I still have to drill the side pieces. You can see 6 of the spacers I have made from the 3/8 tubing. They are 2.25 long and fit very nicely. I still need 8 more of em but its coming along really nice

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1665-1.jpg

Ring Brothers, eat yer hearts out...I made this with an little old drill press, bench grinder and 4 1/2 angle grinder. BTW, I love pilot point drill bits!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1664-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/DSCF1663-1.jpg

The 1/2 inch holes in the center are for the coilovers to mount to provided that they will fit inside the walls. If not, I will make a small tower coming up from the crossmember to attach them to. I will have 3/8 thick 6061 capturing both 1/2 inch bolts and the 1 3/8 hole below them. One of the things I like most about this design is that all the force from suspending the front of my car is cancelled out by having the shocks point at each other. The unibody will have to do little to actually support itself. Only a little bit of downward force will be sent thru the frame brackets I have yet to start

[Bryce]

Nice fab I cannot wait to see this come together. I am away from my work computer, did you get my email?

[Protour_Pinto]

Seeing the area you live in outside your garage door looks like Romeo.

Great project!

[Motorcitydak]

Nice fab I cannot wait to see this come together. I am away from my work computer, did you get my email?

Yeah I got that last email but I cannot open docx files on my mac, I will have to find a program to download so I can view it


Seeing the area you live in outside your garage door looks like Romeo.

Great project!

Thanks man, Yeah Romeo is about 15 miles west of me. Im guessing you are originally from this area? I love it out here in the middle of nowhere. I tell people what city I live in, they say where is that and I just smile. Its a nice change from living in Detroit for 19 years

[wellis77]

Steve, send me the file, I can convert it for you. pm me if you don't have my email.

[Bryce]

Yeah I got that last email but I cannot open docx files on my mac, I will have to find a program to download so I can view it



I will resend it right now.

[Protour_Pinto]

Thanks man, Yeah Romeo is about 15 miles west of me. Im guessing you are originally from this area? I love it out here in the middle of nowhere. I tell people what city I live in, they say where is that and I just smile. Its a nice change from living in Detroit for 19 years

I went to Utica High. Graduated in 85. I lived in Anchorville for a lot of years, right across the street from the dragstrip. It was a great area to spend my Youth

[Auto Rod Technologies]

Just browsed the pics, this is a sweet project!

[Bryce]

Steve did you ever get my email?

[Motorcitydak]

Hey Bryce, yeah i got that last one on Thursday. Spindle TRE height of 11.5, rack of 10.36. I need to find some TRE's to use in those c6 knuckles that will be at that height now, any suggestions? I was going to post a thread in the suspension forum to see what guys are using. The stock c6 ones have a smaller female threaded fitting, I would rather have a 5/8 or 3/4 male shaft

[Bryce]

What about reaming the tapered hole in the steering arm to a straight bore hole. Then bolting the heim joint on with a shoulder bolt. this is what I did on my mustang, worked great!

[Motorcitydak]

That is totally possible and i have a set of 4 brand new aluminum 3/4x3/4 rod ends i could use. Are you worried at all about there being even a slight amount of play with that bolt? I like the tapered design since its more of a press fit and super solid

[DTM Racing]

If you look into it, there are washers that have a stepped lip to fit into the taper to remove any slop. The Hotchkis kits come with them when you convert your end links to heims.

[Bryce]

That is totally possible and i have a set of 4 brand new aluminum 3/4x3/4 rod ends i could use. Are you worried at all about there being even a slight amount of play with that bolt? I like the tapered design since its more of a press fit and super solid

I am not worried at all. I reamed it to be almost a press fit. Honing it to be perfect. I would also suggest measuring the bolts and reaming to that. Dont just use 1/2" drill bit. Using a shoulder bolt would be a good idea as well.

[Motorcitydak]

Do you think these are any good? i do not have any reamers but I think I would have to open it up to 3/4 to completely get rid of the taper

http://www.harborfreight.com/11-piece-adjustable-hand-reamer-set-38577.html

Anyways, I did get a little farther on my crossmember. I drilled out the side pieces and cut the spacers. Next i have to make the steel brackets to weld to the frame rails

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1691-1.jpg

and the general area where it will live

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1692-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1693-1.jpg

[Bryce]

Looking pretty cool!

I have never used those HF reamers you could always try them out on a scrap piece of steel and see what size hole they make at a paticular setting. If they dont work return them.

[Motorcitydak]

Cool, thanks for that Bryce. Looks like if you had your way, I would have shoulder bolts in every single part of my car.....you in sales for those things or something??

HF always has sale papers for 20% off anything so Ill just go to their store and get em for $62. I know I will never need them all but I can never have too many tools!

[Jetfixr320]

I bought one of their Pipe Cutters to cut my 8.8" axle tube. It was junk, the cutter was walking all over the place. It went back the next day.

Hope the reamers work for you though.

Keep up the work, can't wait to see a AWD Charger.

Steve

[Motorcitydak]

I have some things from HF but i am very picky about what I will use from there as obviously quality with usually take a nose dive along with prices. I currently get my 4 1/2 inch cut off wheels from there since they are I think $7 for 10 and cut just as long and well as the $2 ones you get from everywhere else. I also got the air/hydro cylinder from there to power my tubing bender, that thing is awesome. I like pushing a button and watching tube bend to my will

Those 'precision' reamers are cause for concern tho but I guess ill just keep my fingers crossed that they can give me 2 perfect holes in some aluminum. This leads me to have a positive outlook on em tho

http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27192&highlight=harbor&page=53

[cobraguy65]

If you know what size hole you need, why not just order the right size reamer?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#=ghjif5

PS. You will need a 1/64" under drill bit also

[Bryce]

Unless you are reaming this on a drill press the hole with be larger than the reamer size. So if you are doing this by hand, work your way up to the measured size of the bolt.

You know I work part time at a hardware store right?!?!

[Motorcitydak]

You know I work part time at a hardware store right?!?!

Wat??? I thought you just liked staying at a Holiday Inn Express....

Yeah I read that somewhere. I still think you are actually a salesman for shoulder bolts, or at least get commission from em.

I ended up buying those reamers a few days ago. They seem pretty good, especially for the price. I wish I was going to use them more but so far the smallest one has been very helpful and easy to use. Ive been using it by hand and have good success. Anyway, I did stuff again!!

Hurray for progress!!!

I worked on getting this mounted in the car today . First I had to cut out the 1/8 steel brackets that got welded to the frame

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1694-1.jpg

then trimmed them to fit inside the frame rail and rounded off the corners

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1695-1.jpg

a little grinding and cleaning later, I had these on there. Front diff had to be removed to put it in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1696-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1697-1.jpg

Obviously I had the crossmember in place while tacking those brackets. I removed it to finish the welding then put it back into place. The front diff went back into place as well, which is nice

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1698-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1700-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1701-1.jpg

After that I started working more on the rockers. I had to drill out a few holes and made the bar to go between the 2 arms. Also it turns out that 3/8 aluminum is not quite 3/8, its slightly over. The setup ended up being about 0.100 too wide so a little sanding on the flanges of the bushings had it all fitting in the brackets like I wanted. Theses are super solid now, just need to get the right length bolts for the rockers and Ill be set. With the crossmember back in, I tossed in a few aluminum links I have to use a mock up shocks. This is pretty much my completed front suspension.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1702-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1703-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1705-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1706-1.jpg

I even started messing around with my steering. Some day soon this will be tied to a custom rack and then I can move on from the front suspension

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1704-1.jpg

That's it for now. Im planning on calling Woodward tomorrow to get my steering rack going. Hope to get that in soon

[ryeguy2006a]

I really like where you are locating the front shocks. Very cool design.

[andrewb70]

This might sound like a silly question, but where will the engine go? This is a serious question and I am not at all being a smart a$$.

Andrew

[twosaturns]

This might sound like a silly question, but where will the engine go? This is a serious question and I am not at all being a smart a$$.

Andrew

I think I saw earlier he has a LOT of engine setback.

[Bryce]

Steve,

Are you planning on boxing the UCA mounts?

Also When designing your rockers, measure the angle between the pushrod and the rocker through out the suspension travel , then measure the angle between the coilover and the rocker arm. If you could keep the angle as close to 90* that would be best. however you dont want the angle to decrease during compression. This will become a less and less effective spring during bump, basically the opposite of a progressive spring.

[Bryce]

This might sound like a silly question, but where will the engine go? This is a serious question and I am not at all being a smart a$$.

Andrew

I think this was going to be a mid-engine. HAHA just kidding.

But the co-pilot can tune on the fly.

[Bryce]

I think I saw earlier he has a LOT of engine setback.

Yep!

[Motorcitydak]

Yep, im planning for my crank pulley to be just behind that center shaft from the front diff. Since the engine will be completely between the front and rear axle centerlines, its technically going to be mid engined!

[Motorcitydak]

Steve,

Are you planning on boxing the UCA mounts?

Also When designing your rockers, measure the angle between the pushrod and the rocker through out the suspension travel , then measure the angle between the coilover and the rocker arm. If you could keep the angle as close to 90* that would be best. however you dont want the angle to decrease during compression. This will become a less and less effective spring during bump, basically the opposite of a progressive spring.

Yes, I am going to box all the mounts to keep them nice and strong. I just did not want to do any of that until I had all the brackets laid out incase any of them had to be moved or adjusted. I think Im all done with them now so I will be doing that soon.

I got the relationship between the pushrod and the rocker relatively 90 but as you can see, the shock is no where close. I had to settle on that angle because of the length of the shocks I want to use. If I wanted that to be at a better angle, the shocks would not be able to mount to where they are going to or I would have had to use shorter ones which I really did not want to do. Its unfortunate but that is just a compromise that I have to let slide. The only decent thing with mine is that the angle will increase during bump...now you have me curious as to how much and I am going to have to go measure it

[Motorcitydak]

Well, I measured the angles. At approx ride height where it sits rite now, its at 70 degrees. Approx 3 inch up travel at the wheel and it goes to 86 degrees. Obviously that angle will get more acute as the wheel travels down. I really cannot do much about that, just accept it since I want to use a 6.9 inch travel shock

[Bryce]

Steve,

Thanks for posting. That is good news. It means the spring will become more and more effective through your bump travel.

[Motorcitydak]

I did a little more work last night, it does not seem like much tho. I got to use those reamers....which they worked but took FOREVER. I spent over an hour on each hole getting them to the right size and broke my tap wrench just before finishing up my last one. Whatever tho, I got em done and have the knuckle side rod ends in their proper place. I used 3/4 shoulder bolts so Bryce should be getting a commission check for that and some brass bushings as spacers. I wanted to have a flange at the knuckle so the load could be spread out a little more. Here are a few shots of that completed

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1709-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1708-1.jpg

[Supra510]

Nice work.

[Bryce]

Good news about the shoulder bolts. HAHA. I will split the commission check with you.

I would through some washers under the head of the bolt. Also I would check the compressive strength of those bushings.

[Motorcitydak]

With the steering rack currently up in the air, I decided to work on the rear end a little more today. I am going to use a Watt's link to control the lateral movement of the rear axle and because its me, i am going to build it all myself. For the rear axle, I have one of Moser's circle track rear's. Its a ford 9 inch housing with Moser's full floater ends on it. I had it spec'd out a year or so ago. It has been sitting idly by while I messed around with the front end. I already have a 3 link built for it but no shock setup currently. I started off by putting the axle back into where it belongs

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1710-1.jpg

This shot is at ride height, which is 2.5 inches off the stock bumpstops

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1711-1.jpg

After that I started making my bell crank. I decided to build it with bolt holes 6 inches apart. I used some bronze bushings I had and will get another shoulder bolt that is the right length for this. You hear that Bryce?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1712-1.jpg

Its made from the same stuff I used for the rockers in the front end. 3/8 thick 1.5 wide 6061 and a piece of 3/4x1 6061 in the middle I also drilled and tapped each side for 2 3/8 bolts. I am going to find some cap screws that I can counter sink into the 6061 for a flush fit since they interfere with the brackets as they sit

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1713-1.jpg

I marked and cleaned off the site where my bracket will be going. I decided on using an axle mounted bell crank to save overall weight. This will only add around 10# of unsprung weight vs around 30# if I used a Fays2 or something similar. I was very concerned about the clearance with the Moser fill cap. I assumed that I would have to remove and relocate it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1714-1.jpg

This is the bracket that I made to attach to the axle. Its 1/2x1 steel bar with a piece of 1/8 plate welded to the front. The 1/2 has 3 3/8 holes tapped into it and I drilled 3 1/2 inch holes into the 1/8 to hold the shoulder bolt

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1715-1.jpg

I tacked that piece with the axle in place

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1716-1.jpg

Then pulled the axle out to finish up the process. I welded it to the housing and braced that with 1/8 plate

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1718-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1719-1.jpg

and was happy to see that with the bell crank in place, I still had good clearance with the fill cap

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1721-1.jpg

I was checking the spread of the 3 holes with 3 shoulder bolts, unfortunately the top hole for some reason decided to destroy that bolt. The bracket was still warm to the touch but I am not sure why this happened, but I blame Bryce. It was very hard to get this thing out

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1723-1.jpg

You can see that it messed up the top hole

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1724-1.jpg

I was able to drill the hole back out and chase the threads with the tap. The threads are fine. Im happy that I ordered 4 shoulder bolts tho

Here is the semi-finsihed product of my labors

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1726-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1727-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1728-1.jpg

You can see the second 1/8 plate with the 3 holes in there. I will make this setup double shear for strength

[Bryce]

Thanks for mentioning me, HAHA.

Looking good. FYI my chassi mounted watts link weighs 8.4 pounds.

Definetly do a double shear on a 1/2" bolt. There will be around 2000pounds of load on the pivot bolt. Shearing the bolt is not an issue its the bending moment on the bolt and the plate welded to the housing.

[Motorcitydak]

Wow, thats a super light weight frame for your Watt's. Yeah, I am for sure going to finish up that bracket. I want to get the frame brackets going rite now while the axle is back in. I can pull the axle again and finish up the bracket later

Any insight onto why that bolt got jacked like it did? I had bolts in those holes before I welded that piece to the axle and it was all fine. Then I was threading them in again. The other 2 went in just fine. I was putting that one in, it got really hard to turn then just about froze. I had to use a big pipe wrench to get it out and you can see the results

[Bryce]

It seems like the threads warped a little during the welding process. I would suggest alwasy re tapping the holes if possible. Also always use ani-seize for lubrication.

[kainedogg]

Awesome project man. Can't wait to see the finished product. I have been a huge fan of that Charger body style since the movie Bullet.

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks a lot. I love that scene in Bullit...rite until the Charger wrecked hard core. I am not quite at the finished product but I got a little closer today. I worked more on the Watt's link, making the frame brackets and figuring out the length of the links which I have ordered.

These are the brackets I made, just simple stuff. 1x2 1/8 wall box steel. Perfect since it has a 3/4 inside and my frame rails are just over 2 inches wide

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1733-1.jpg

Then after measuring for a while, I hacked some holes into the frame rails

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1734-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1735-1.jpg

Then tacked those brackets into place. I want to get my links just to make sure the angles are perfect. I set them at 80 degrees and used a 3/4 wood dowel to set this thing up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1736-1.jpg

Does not seem like much I guess. I feel like I was out there for a long time with not much to show...o well. Ill get more stuff done later and hope to some day actually get a steering rack for it

[wellis77]

Sure beats my progress these days... Is there a pick-a-part or salvage yard near you that you can go measure some late model racks?

[Motorcitydak]

There is a pick-a-part I can walk around in but they will not have anything new enough to interest me there. The more I think about it, the more I think that any OEM rack is not going to be what I want. I just feel like a Woodward one is the only way to go

[Motorcitydak]

Just got these! Polished ZO6 calipers! For reference, they are sitting on 13 inch steel wheels

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/03/DSCF1737-1.jpg

[wellis77]

nice score!!!

[Wesley J]

Its hard to tell dimensions from the pic but I wanted to mention something to look at. It looks like you're running a 3 link, correct? I'm wondering how long your upper link is and if you have a good feel for how much pinion angle change you're going to see during full suspension travel. The reason I say this is you could potentially have your rod ends binding in the swing shackle or whatever you call the aluminum pivot thingy. Not saying you will, just saying it's something to look at. Increasing the thickness of the center piece of Al or finding thinner rod ends would solve the problem in the case you had one.

And Bryce is correct, I'd mount that center pivot bolt in double shear as it'll see massive forces. To add to what Bryce said, that bolt could see much higher dynamic loads than 2000 lbs.

Cheers,

Wes

[ATOMonkey]

I wouldn't be worried about shear, either double or single on the bolt, as it's probably a 60ksi minimum.

I would be more worried about LCF fatigue from bending at the shoulder if an insufficient amount of clamp is maintained.

Neither are really a huge concern, as watts link is fairly common and people aren't dropping differentials out of their cars all the time.

[Bryce]

Shear is not the failure mode. Its going to be the bending and or deflection under load. Impulse loads are much higher than constant loads.

My 3-link has a watts and I have no rodend bind during suspension travel, ~10" UCA and ~22" LCA

[Motorcitydak]

I do not remember the length of my upper but I do know that it is very short, had to be for packaging purposes since I did not want to commit to intruding on passenger compartment space. I can change it down the road if its necessary. The rod ends iirc have 18 degrees of misalignment between the body and the ball if the ball is mounted rite to flat instead of being used with high misalignment spacers. I will have them tomorrow and will put them in this weekend to confirm everything is good.

I did draw out the rear suspension and mapped out the change of pinion angle during suspension travel. I do not remember what the degrees of change I would see but I do remember that it was minimal and I think it was more than acceptable.

Weather or not the shoulder bolt will stand up in single shear is debatable (sort of). I just do not want to worry about it tho so I am for sure doing double. That will put my mind at ease and keep it strong

Since I am not able to get a lock nut of anything on that bolt, when I put it in for good I am going to put some lock tite on it to keep the bolt from moving.

I did look around online for a while at Watt's link failure. I found a pic of one mustang that broke a single shear bolt. I doubt that it was a shoulder bolt and I do not know the grade of the failed bolt but again, I will not take the chance and will not have to worry about it

[Motorcitydak]

Spent a little time in there with a grinder. I could not stay very long tho just because of all the dust it put into the air. I guess its from all the old undercoating and dirt but I had to throw in the towel when my nose was running like crazy and it was all black...lol

Here is a bunch of junk I cut outta the back end. This pile includes the remnants of the trunk floor, the fuel tank crossmember, the shock crossmember and some flanges from the frame rail

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1741-1.jpg

Here is my now cleaner back end, way easier to get to all the junk thats still in there. This shot shows the links in the Watt's. I just got a digital angle finder which is nice. I bought it specifically to measure this, the bad news is that the arms are about 1.5 degrees off. I could not tell that with my other, swinging angle finder. Not a big deal tho, thats why I just tacked in the brackets. Im going to cut one back out and move it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1743-1.jpg

and this is the rear end at ride height. The tires will sit about 3/8 further out because I do not have the drive plates on the full floater ends

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1742-1.jpg

Here is the purpose for making the room on the back end. I sort of have to do a push rod setup there and I sort of am doing it just because I can. Same deal as the front, 6 inches of allowed wheel travel using a 6.9 travel shock. I laid it out in card board in the house after I got smoked outta the garage

Ride height, the link end is slightly up because its angle got too bad at full droop

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1740-1.jpg

Full droop

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1739-1.jpg

and compression. The piece of the right is where the shocks will mount. With the car at ride height, the loads from the 2 coil overs will point rite at each other in the same piece of aluminum. That means that the chassis will really not see any of the load from having to support itself. I dunno about you but I think that is pretty cool

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1738-1.jpg

Thats all for now, I have to order the 6061 to build this thing and get more shoulder bolts and bushings (for Bryce)

[Motorcitydak]

Bryce, about those bushings I have in the steering setup. They are just there for spacers rite now, I got some 6061 tubing with .75 ID and walls of .25 and .375 I am just not sure which size I will be using yet. I may be picking up a mill so I can make just about anything if I get that

I messed around a little more but will be gone the next few weeks so no more progress for a little while. I have been concentrating on the rear end rite now. I finished up the watt's link and started work on the rear pushrod setup

For the Watt's, it was always going to be double shear. I like to think about things like this for at least a week to make sure that I like the design of the thing I am building. After figuring out what I liked, I built this. Its sort of a football shaped thing that spaced another piece of 1/8 to nicely support my shoulder bolt for the Watt's

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1744-1.jpg

Also I ordered this self locking shoulder bolt for the Watt's. It has a plastic pellet in the threads to lock it into place. Should work out nicely

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1747-1.jpg

Here is the football in place, the middle shoulder bolt is just longer than the others. I wanted them there to keep the piece in place during welding

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1748-1.jpg

Braced up with more 1/8 plate. Im happy with the way this turned out and do not think I will have any problems from this. I did realize that the upper bolt on the Watt's pivot will interfere with the oil filler of the axle. I am going to solve that by building a new rear plate for the pivot and threading the two bolts that hold the links then just trim the part that sticks out. I cannot get a bolt in the pivot with it mounted to the axle

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1750-1.jpg

Here is what I started making for the rear pushrod setup. Its all 3/8 6061. Unfortunately one piece of the 3 inch was backordered so I did not get it while I was building this. That would form the other horizontal plate. I have it now but no time to work on it. I also cut the flanges off my frame rail where this mounts to and plated over the top of it welding that directly to the vertical wall of the frame. I was going to weld in a vertical plate to the frame rail to connect the two sides but there is already one there from the factory because of the location of the stock bump stop, thanks Dodge!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1751-1.jpg

Here it is sitting in place. It just barely fits between the stock wheel wells but it does fit and allow full motion of the rockers. You can also see the holes in the floor where the pushrods will pass thru to the axle. I will use a shock boot to seal this area up later. Something I like about this is just how far out I can put the mount for the spring on the axle housing and not have to modify the frame at all for the coil overs. It also saves a ton of room for a sway bar and exhaust by having the shocks up in the trunk. Does it matter if I mount the pushrod to the top of the axle shaft? or I can mount it to the lower control arm brackets which I built them to be able to easily hold a mount for that

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1752-1.jpg

Closer shot of the passenger side. I hope to wrap this up the next time I get some time in the garage

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/04/DSCF1753-1.jpg

Sorry for the horrible pictures. Im not one who cares much about that but I know these are pretty bad yet I appreciate that most other build threads have way nicer pics

[wellis77]

looking good Steve!

[Motorcitydak]

Almost finished up the rear pushrod setup. I still need to make the 1/8 steel brackets to weld to the frame but I got this finished up so I can get the length of the pushrods. I got that and have ordered them, should be in in a few days so I can both those up and make the axle side brackets. After that the rear end is pretty much done. This is built very similar to the front end I did except the aluminum is 3/8 thick bolted together with 3/8 grade 8 bolts and I cut up 0.75 0.120 wall aluminum tubing for spacers. I am still waiting on my steering rack from Woodward, hoping that shows up some time soon.

Here is the finished pushrod frame sitting in place. I used some 1x1 aluminum as mock up shocks

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1761-1.jpg

[wellis77]

Looking good Steve.

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks Will, any more parts heading toward your car?

[wellis77]

Not yet. I have my list, to not moving on anything yet. Just keeping my eyes peeled for good deals. I haven't posted it, but I did pick up an aluminum flywheel and a late model GTO back seat. I'm also studying the Gen 5 Viper, trying to figure out what and how I can incorporate from that car. I want the seats and the wheels! $$$

[Motorcitydak]

I am super excited about the work I got done tonight!!!

For the first time in almost 3 years, this car has a rear axle secured to it! I have had the 3 link on there for quite a while now but the Watt's is "done" and the car is holding its own axle in place thanks to my "finished" rear pushrod setup!! I had to wrap a few things up on it and it always takes longer than I would like but this thing is now solidly in place

I started off by laying out and making these brackets in 1/8 steel

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1764-1.jpg

Then I had to take apart the pushrod thing....again...to mount the brackets and drill out more 3/8 holes. I also had the steel brackets hold the shoulder bolt that the rocker pivots on just for a little more strength

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1765-1.jpg

Then it got put back together, kinda gets to be a PITA!! Here it is all done tho which is nice. I weighed this and it is 24 pounds total, wish it was less but o well, it may become swiss cheese later on

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1766-1.jpg

Axle got a few more brackets, again from 1/8. I only boxed in the inner sides of these. I do not want them filling up with dirt and mud then rusting out from the inside

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1768-1.jpg

A little more wrestling and welding later and its in place!! The pushrods attach so far out on the axle that this thing should be relatively stable even without a sway bar. It will still be getting one tho obviously

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1770-1.jpg

Look at it, just sitting there. Aside from a sway bar and some sweet ridetech coil overs, this rear end is done!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1771-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1773-1.jpg

[dusterbd13]

thats looking good, man. thats looking real good.

im enjoying the radical and homebrewed nature of this build. keep it up.

michael

[wellis77]

AWESOME!!! Nicely done Steve!

[droptop73]

Are you using some kind of bushing/bearing at the pivot points?

[Motorcitydak]

Yes, there are flanged bronze bushings in there that ride on 1/2 shoulder bolts. My first setup had needle bearings in there but a little discussion on this board led me to build it with the bushings instead

[Motorcitydak]

This really isn't much of an update but my (giant) brake rotors showed up today! They are DBA 4000's, stock ZO6 stuff, pretty heavy at 25 pounds a piece. Im sure they will stop me in a hurry! As you can see I did use the proper measuring technique, they are 8 pizza rolls across

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1775-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/05/DSCF1777-1.jpg

Using the international conversion chart, 8 pizza rolls come out to 14 inches.

My seats came in too. I got em from Cipher auto from Tony SS on this board. I do not have a good picture of those yet but I will get some soon

[Bryce]

nice progress, looking good.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

In... nice build...

[crobin]

This very cool! Subscribed....

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks a lot fella's. Maybe it will be running and driving in a year or so. That would be pretty cool. I started laying out interior, primarily to see just how much room I will lose from the engine coming half way thru the firewall. I found some dimensions on the 5.7 hemi then figured out where it would be able to sit. Here is what I have come up with. I also did get in my seats which is pretty cool. Got em thru tony_ss on this board. They are from Cipher auto and I really like em. These are literally the only thing I have ever bought for this car that ever bolted in, probably the only thing that ever will too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1785-1.jpg

While I was building this thing from cardboard, I also was trying to figure out what pedal assembly to run. It will have to be a floor mounted assembly and the throttle pedal will be the stock DBW one. I also made up a super cheap mock up steering column and 13 inch wheel to see where that would sit. Im thinking about using Summit's 32 inch universal tilt column. The area for the engine is 28 inches wide and pushed 13 inches back thru the firewall. Footwell room is for sure compromised but o well, gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet. The engine is supposed to be 26 inches wide so I can narrow this area a little if necessary. Also I have 20 inches from the center shaft of the front drive setup, the engine should only take up about 15 inches of that space

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1786-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1787-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1789-1.jpg

With the pedal assembly I want to run, the floor in that area will have to be modified to be more of a 90 degree bend because of the placement of the master's. I will also need a foot rest just in front of the pedals to get my feet to the top of the pedal pads. The length of the transmission looks like the transfer case will sit just behind the front seats.

I plan to make a few phone calls today and head out next monday to pick up my engine. The exact selection is still up in the air depending on a big detail and just one more thing that no one else has ever done before

[Motorcitydak]

I love Summit Racing!!! They are just one state away from me, ship same day and i get stuff from them over night. I got my brake and clutch pedal assembly with master cylinders and remote adjuster. Everything is Tilton, 3/4 master's for the front brakes and clutch, 7/8 for the rear brakes. The pedals are no where near their rite locations here, I just put em together real quick to see it all.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1791-1.jpg

I also just dropped my front brake rotors and hubs off to a local machinist to redrill them to a 5x4.5 bolt pattern. I am also going to have him make me a flange to adapt the rear output of my transfer case from the CV shaft that it is now to a u joint. He gave me the name of a local gear & machine company that can make me a splined adapter to go from my transmission to the transfer case as well. Its nice getting problems solved and progress made. I am still planning to get my power plant on Monday, hope that pans out. Leaning back towards the 5.7 Hemi again vs the other idea I had

[wellis77]

What was the other idea?

[Motorcitydak]

dodge/chrysler's new 3.6L v6. all aluminum narrow 60 degree block, dohc, good mileage, 300hp stock then add a pair of turbo's. I just do not think the trans bolt pattern is the same

[Motorcitydak]

Just got this pic. The machinist said that he was going to machine the bore of the rotor because it was hitting the hub....lol. Thankfully i texted him before he did that. Ill get these back on thursday and finally be able to bolt the front wheels on


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/ResizedImage951339298378308-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

400hp just showed up!!!!!!! The MDS, VVT and short runner system will all be maintained. Also, I weighed this. Eagle Hemi with no acc's is 512#

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1793-1.jpg

Also I finally got word today that my steering rack is done and shipped out today!!!

[dusterbd13]

sweet!!

should run out pretty good, and i would be suprised if you didnt break 20mpg on interstate cruise.

please tell me that theres boost planned, too.

[Motorcitydak]

I am hoping for very good power and mpg since it can run as a 4cyl

I am still undecided on boost, it may not be necessary. The car should come out at around 3000 pounds. I am sure I can coax 450hp from that engine without breaking a sweat or reliability. Also the headers I plan on building would be useless if I decided on turbo's later on down the road.

I plan on driving this a lot once its done and I have yet to do a turbo build so I am leery about this being my first. I do not want any problems or concerns doing a multi state trip with it.....still, so tempting as long as the front drive system will handle the power

[roadrage79]

Amazing build, but I have to say I find it funny that you are worried about doing a first turbo build. After what you are attempting to pull off with the rest of the car, a turbo setup will be a walk in the park.

[johndoe07]

cant wait till this is finished

[Motorcitydak]

Yeah a turbo should be relatively easy. I guess a few other reasons I am shying away from it are the exhaust system; I want to build 180 degree headers, turbo(s) would make those useless; added space constraints, I am not sure if I will have room for all of that; the ECM tuning, with the stock ECM, I do not know if it would work together; and the MDS, when it runs in 4cyl mode, less volume out and less in. I just do not know what all that would do. I am sure nothing bad but I want to get it running/driving and go from there

JohnDoe, if that is indeed your real name, I assume that living in Ohio that you will some day see this car. Once it is done I want to take it to as many different things as I can. I read that Ohio is the new host for the east coast timing associations 1 mile event!

[Motorcitydak]

It's sad but i have not been able to get much work done in a while. The good news is that I did finally get my Woodward steering rack in. I had planned to have it mounted by now but I will have 2 days to get that done now, hopefully it is in by Monday.

I did get the trans tunnel out of the way. I did not cut much out of the firewall just yet, I want to size up the engine and cut that out to just barely fit in there. I need to minimize the loss of interior space

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1794-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1795-1.jpg

Here is the rack, Woodward GL series manual, ratio is 2.62 inches/rev. It will give me about 2.5 turns lock to lock

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1799-1.jpg

Then I wrapped it up like it's going to a whore house. I set it in place just to see what I have to work with

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1800-1.jpg

Another little bit of mock up I did was on the engine. The tape marks off 13 inches forward of the bell housing mount, that is where the firewall will be so you will only see about the first 1 and a half cylinders under the hood. The rest will be hidden. I also started getting pissed about the dip stick. It sticks over on the drivers side and is the widest thing over there. I did not want to make the dog house any bigger just to fit the dip stick. After looking into some aftermarket ones, I remembered that if I do a dry sump, I do not even need a dip stick! I will just remove it and put a plug of some kind in there

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1801-1.jpg

I have some cool ideas and I hope they all work out in the garage this weekend!

[Bryce]

Nice rack!

[Motorcitydak]

PERV! Its not polite to stare

[wellis77]

You've got more room than I have for that rack, looks good. Manual though huh?

[Motorcitydak]

Yeah, it looks like I have quite a bit more room that you. Isn't your LCA mount in the way? I got a manual, I had thought that i could add the power option to it later if I had wanted, it has the mount machined into it but the rack shaft looks different. Really wish I would have asked that before I bought it. I really did not want to have to run a PS pump and all that stuff anyways. I guess I will just have to get used to the manual setup, my scrub radius is perfect tho so in theory will be fine to steer, the 7 degrees of caster may change that quite a bit.

I did get some work done to it, worked on placing the rack finally. First off all of the front end stuff had to come out. Because of its height, the crossmember braces had to be hacked in half. The drivers side more so than the passenger because of the gear box of the rack

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1802-1.jpg

Then with the rack back in place, I put 1/2 threaded rod thru the mounts so I can make sure the bolts are vertical and this also made it really easy to place the brackets

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1803-1.jpg

Here is the drivers side bracket that I ended up with, its 3/16 plate with 1/8 vertical walls. I placed a stack of washers between the 3/16 pieces to space them out an inch. Of course when they were welded together, I could not get them out. So they got welded in place. I had to clearance the one side of the bracket to fit around the rack

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1804-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1805-1.jpg

I read something from Woodward that you should use washers between the rack and mount to spread out the load and also allow some bump steer adjustment. I placed 2 washers between the rack and mount. The housing is magnesium which is pretty cool but obviously needs to be protected

Here is the drivers side bracket in place. The bottom side is unwelded, I want to lift the front of the car up so I can get under there. I need to finish up the crossmember joints to the frame as well as this piece

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1807-1.jpg

The passenger side was much easier because the bolt fell rite on top of that side brace. I put a piece of 3/16 across the tube and another on a small stand to get it up to the rack

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1808-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1810-1.jpg

The room it has to live in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1809-1.jpg

With that in place, I pulled the rack and burned the mounts in for good and drilled the 1/2 hole thru the passenger side. I will put another piece of the bottom of that tube to give the bolt a flat mounting surface. What do you guys think about this mount? I feel like it mite need at least a horizontal plate to brace it further to the crossmember tube. It will obviously see force in a sideways directions and really only the drivers mount is built to do that. The pass side does/will go thru 3 pieces of 3/16 and the 0.120 wall of the tube

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1811-1.jpg

With those done, I finally bolted the rack in place!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1812-1.jpg

Unfortunately this then got evicted in favor of better suspension geometry

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1813-1.jpg

I removed the front diff's mounting brackets but while in that process, my grinder gave up the ghost. Since it was 3am, there was no store to open to get another one from. I figured out that one of the power wires had broken inside the cord so its working again with a 1 foot shorter cord but that just about did me in for the night. I did grind those mounts down flush with the tubes tho.

The last thing I did get done was to make a Hemi sized hole in the firewall. I cardboard template over the Hemi gave me this hole, I wanted to tops angled like that because the steering column support is really close on that side. I still need to cut the floors.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1815-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/06/DSCF1814-1.jpg

After that, I will get ALL the stuff out from under the car and remove the table. Then I want to strip everything from the car and try to weigh the bare shell. If I can ever get ahold of another ball joint nut, I can then put it all back together and get this car on the ground and see how well the Hemi fits in there. I have decided to get the engine placed then try to fit the front diff back in. Im pretty sure a remote filter is in store for this motor. I had a dream last night that it all fit, so it has to be possible

[feeble]

First off, let me commend you on this build. Not too many people (myself included) have the guts, patience, ingenuity and determination to attempt an AWD build and kudos to you for fabbing all of this stuff up yourself.

I have a question regarding your front upper control arm mounts. How thick are they? I am using 3/16" on the frame for my Mustang II and they are almost completely boxed in as well. Yours look much taller than mine, on a much larger car on a driven axle. Hopefully some others will chime in with their opinion as well, but your upper control arm pivots look too light IMO. Not being critical, just want you to be safe.

Keep up the good work!

Shawn

[Motorcitydak]

No problem, I appreciate the comment!

The brackets are 1/8 plate, I think about 2 inches wide or so. Keep in mind tho that they are not done. They will have a lot a bracing built into them, that is just not done yet. I wanted/needed to get every bracket placed on the frame rail to see what kind of room I would have to work with in the end. I was hoping to start boxing them in and adding bracing but my grinder crapping out ended that plan

1018 (cold roll steel) has a strength of 63,000psi. Half of the circumference of the bolt (1/2 inch) will be in contact with the bracket when it is under load in some direction. With 1/8 of material to press on, you get 0.09 square inches of material in contact with the bracket, times that by the 63000psi strength and you get 5,670 pounds. I can have double the entire weight of the car pulling on just 1 of those bolt holes. By comparison, your 3/16 have 0.147 square inches in contact giving you a strength of 9,272 pounds

That does not take into account the strength added by a tight bolt acting on a washer, or that there are 2 brackets per mount and 4 per side. If properly braced for load in the given directions it will see, 1/8 plate is strong enough in this application.

Something else to keep in mind is that the front end will not see that much force from acceleration. Also the most power a car can/will ever produce is from the brakes. If you/I have massive braking ability, the chassis will need to be built to withstand that force, no road car should have more power from the engine over the brakes

An example is the Veyron that has 1,001hp. It has an estimated equivalent of 3,000hp in stopping power both from its air brake and wheel brakes

[feeble]

Sounds like you've given this a lot of thought and done your homework. Shock loading and fatigue should also be considerations.

[Motorcitydak]

I only get to work on this at the most 1 day a week, that gives me tons of time to think about everything. Absolutely, those are big concerns. My best solution for that is to paint everything grey, that way cracks will show up very easily

[feeble]

My best solution for that is to paint everything grey, that way cracks will show up very easily

I hadn't planned on painted anything on mine at first. Was going to put it together and run it for a while and see how everything held up. Priming to look for rust bleed because of cracks is a good idea though, I'll do that.

[wellis77]

Looks good Steve! Yeah my front LCA mount is in the way and so is the engine. That has more or less been solved though. LCA mount staying where it is and so is the engine. Just have to design a couple parts, get em cut, and get back to the States to put it together... If the rack shaft you have will not work with power, they are easy to change and about $150 or so from Woodward. So if you ever decide you want to go that route, it's all good.

[Motorcitydak]

Glad you got it solved Will, Xmas is coming up soon and I'm sure you cannot wait to get back and do some work on it.

That is cool about the rack and something that i was hoping to hear. Isn't the rack shaft drilled on the passenger side for the ram's mount? Seems like that side of the rack housing would have to be shorter too. If I need to go power, Ill just send it back and let them change it. I would probably do that in the winter tho so it is not gone for a crazy amount of time, like the 10 weeks it took me to get it. The good news is that I do at least have enough room to fit the cylinder

[wellis77]

Yeah, the rack shaft is drilled on the passenger side for the ram. I don't think the housing is actually shorter on that side but it could be. Never measured.

[Motorcitydak]

I just assume that it has to be. With it turned all the way to the right, the adjuster for the monoball is resting against the rack housing

[Motorcitydak]

I sure did kick my own ass out there in the garage last night. I work nights so I am always awake these hours, I went out there at about 7pm, did not come back inside until 8am except for food twice and I watched a DVR'd episode of Top Gear (the show that led to my downfall). I had pretty ambitious plans for the car so I wanted to get everything done that I possibly could. If you read the thread I made about trying to find a source for a 11/16 ball joint castle nut, I was not able to find one by itself. I just bought the cheapest k727 joint I could find on ebay, cost me $17 iirc.

I started off with getting everything out and off the car that has collected there over the last 2 years of it sitting on jack stands. I also finally got to pull my table out from under the front end. It looked pretty weird to me sitting like this

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1816-1.jpg

After it was a completely bare shell, I finally got to do something that I have been thinking about for years

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1819-1.jpg

I weighed the bare shell using 300# analog scales under each of the jack stands. You have to use analog ones because a modern digital one will only give you a weight once and for a few seconds then it turns off. I zero-ed the scales with the stands on them. I measured the weight 3 times to make sure that my results were correct. I would put my jack by the stand, lift it off to get the scale to 0 then release. Record the 4 weights then do it again. What I came up with is very surprising and good to know. This bare shell only weighs in at 635 pounds!

Getting that weight was the only reason that I had to take every single thing off the car. After that I spent a few hours putting the front and rear suspension back in. Keen viewers will notice tie rods making their first appearance here. That was about the only fab I did last night. The Woodward rack has 5/8 RH thread studs on the monoball ends. I had to use 3/4 x 3/4 aluminum rod ends for the knuckle side. I got some tube adapters that both fit 1 1/4 0.120 wall DOM and built these up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1821-1.jpg

Front tires got bolted on for the first time too

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1822-1.jpg

then the rear axle and suspension got placed again. I only have 2 of my 18x10 wheels rite now so the back end got the old rollers that the car came on. Glad I did not get rid of these things! After that there were a few tense moments as the car came closer and closer to the cement. It eventually came in for a nice landing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1825-1.jpg

This is sitting at ride height, its roof is 50 inches from the floor

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1824-1.jpg

With the Fox back on the ground for the first time in 2 years, I turned back to other stuff, namely the engine. Because of its height from the ground and placement of the engine, putting the motor in from the top, thru the engine bay and down is not possible. The firewall cut out and cowl is just too low, can't be done....so I got creative

I built this little sled with some all metal casters, 2x4's and 6 inch lag bolts

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1830-1.jpg

That placed the motor at the correct height for when it is sitting in the car. The lag bolts allowed me some adjustment. The sled is much longer than needed so I can also fit the bell housing and transmission onto this

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1831-1.jpg

With that done, I hooked the engine lift back to the front end of the car and picked it up as high as it would go. I could really use a 2 post lift if someone has one to donate!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1832-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1834-1.jpg

Here is the back end of the car at that angle, dam near touching the ground

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1833-1.jpg

The the engine simply got slid into place. I really like these 2 pics

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1835-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1836-1.jpg

Then it slowly was lowered back to the ground. It took me an hour or so just because of little mounts of trimming of the floor pans I had to do so this would fit in

Motor, what motor? LOL, not much to see here!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1837-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1838-1.jpg

Ahh, there it is!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1839-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1840-1.jpg

those lag bolts rest on horizontal pads that are cast into the engine block, pretty handy for me

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1841-1.jpg

New avatar pic!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1843-1.jpg

I laid a fiberglass hood with 6 pack scoop on it that i have. I will not be using this hood tho

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1845-1.jpg

The oil filter is ruining my front driveshaft plans, it will have to go

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1846-1.jpg

and lastly, unfortunately the LCA hits the wheels when they are turned. I will have to cut a bit out of these arms. Will probably use these arms for mock up only then build a jog off them and make my own that will clear everything. With just one wheel on I do get 33 degrees of steering in the other direction when the rack runs out of travel

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1847-1.jpg

I plan to get some more of the trans tunnel cut out tonight, remove a lot of the stock torsion bar crossmember and place the bell housing and transmission

[dusterbd13]

do i see box flares in your future??

[Motorcitydak]

Well I've been looking at pics of flares and I for sure have to build some for the front end but really not as much as I had thought. I have some fiberglass fenders for the car and set them sort of in place along with that hood. The tires only stick out about an inch or two

[dusterbd13]

thats a lot less than the pictures make it look.

go to google and search grassrootsmotorsports.com box flares thread.
enjoy, and make sure you have plenty of cofee. it WILL get your inspirational juices going.

[Bryce]

Looking awesome Steve!

[ryeguy2006a]

Congrats on getting the engine in the car, well sorta. Looks really good though with those rims on the front!

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks a lot guys! I am really excited about this point in the car. Im hoping to get the rest of the drivetrain in place soon and start to build the trans tunnel soon

Will, if you read this can you tell me how much of your transmission input shaft had to be cut off? I forgot that you had to do that to make yours fit with that bell...until I had cut out my floor and tried to wrestle the t-56 into place. I obviously could not get it to make up to the bell and remembered why after a bit of effort trying to get it to fit

[Motorcitydak]

Few shots with the fenders loosely set in place. I only moved the wheels 2 inches forward over stock, sure does look like a lot more than that

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1848-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/DSCF1849-1.jpg

[ATOMonkey]

It's funny how much difference 2 inches can make. The "trucks" guys on spike tv did a wheelbase stretch on their PT ranger a while back and did a show and tell on their fender mod. Might be good for some ideas when the time comes for body work.

I really like where you went with this build. Definitely plowing some new ground. Keep up the good work.

[turboclevor]

where in se michigan are you i am in the monroe area i like the project keep up the good work

[craigs73]

It's funny how much difference 2 inches can make. The "trucks" guys on spike tv did a wheelbase stretch on their PT ranger a while back and did a show and tell on their fender mod. Might be good for some ideas when the time comes for body work.

I really like where you went with this build. Definitely plowing some new ground. Keep up the good work.


yes that would be a great episode to watch
http://www.powerblocktv.com/player/show_player.php?ep_num=TK2011-06&ep_show=TK

[SickSpeedMonte]

No problem, I appreciate the comment!
1018 (cold roll steel) has a strength of 63,000psi. Half of the circumference of the bolt (1/2 inch) will be in contact with the bracket when it is under load in some direction. With 1/8 of material to press on, you get 0.09 square inches of material in contact with the bracket, times that by the 63000psi strength and you get 5,670 pounds. I can have double the entire weight of the car pulling on just 1 of those bolt holes. By comparison, your 3/16 have 0.147 square inches in contact giving you a strength of 9,272 pounds

That does not take into account the strength added by a tight bolt acting on a washer, or that there are 2 brackets per mount and 4 per side. If properly braced for load in the given directions it will see, 1/8 plate is strong enough in this application.

Something else to keep in mind is that the front end will not see that much force from acceleration. Also the most power a car can/will ever produce is from the brakes. If you/I have massive braking ability, the chassis will need to be built to withstand that force, no road car should have more power from the engine over the brakes

An example is the Veyron that has 1,001hp. It has an estimated equivalent of 3,000hp in stopping power both from its air brake and wheel brakes

You have to look at the area of the interface that is normal to the force, so the diameter times the plate thickness, not half the circumference. You have plenty of safety factor to still make it fine it sounds like, your estimates would be high by a factor of pi/2 assuming a tight tolerance on the bolt hole. This also only applies to the shoulder side of the bolt. I agree that most if not all of the force comes from clamping the bushing sleeve.

Incredible project! I hope I can manage the courage to do half of what you are doing.

[Motorcitydak]

I had watched that episode of trucks, didn't they stretch that front end 5 inches or something? That is a TON!!

I'm in the south end of St Clair county, the Marine City/Algonac area

[Motorcitydak]

To keep this thread going, i wanted to say that I am not where near done with the car and will never give up on it. I have been working at it again as much as I can. Got in a few hours last night. My biggest issue's rite now are that there was a real estate fight between the steering rack and the front diff....and the engine. I could have left the steering in place, moved the diff back more but then the engine was in the way. The engine had to stay, so it did. The diff HAS to be there or else this is just another old Charger. I had to cut out the mounts for the steering rack and move that forward to let the diff go in, which I did. I also unfortunately lost my camera for rite now so I do not have any pics, just close your eyes and imagine what it may look like.

Also if you look at my signature, I changed up my fleet of cars a little bit. My beater nissan, one of the old BMW's and the crotch rocket are gone. They have been replaced by the single sweetest car ever

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/0808021733-1.jpg

While it may take away some time and money (more so one than the other), I actually now feel less rushed than before to finish the Charger. I now just spend as much time as I possibly can on every single detail I can with the car. It may be a while before it is done still, but I can still have tons of fun on the road in the mean time. I plan on keeping both of these cars forever anyways so I will just keep splitting my time between them. I have more work to do, and time to do it, on the Charger this weekend. Ill be mounting the steering rack again then can pretty confidently call the front end completed. Then Ill be mounting the engine and trans

[FRENCHBLUE72]

We need more pic of the new ride...

[Motorcitydak]

Sure, its....aaaaaa.....not tall......
tried to do the lean on it and nearly fell over....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/100MEDIA95IMAG0226-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/downsized_0808021732a-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/0808021732-1.jpg

It's front splitter is missing, Ill be getting a new CF one this winter

sitting in its room next to the Fox, like i said, not big....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/0808021735-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

My camera is still MIA, took a pic of the front end with my crappy cell phone. I should have the steering rack mounts done (again) this weekend

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/09/0906021338-1.jpg

[chunger]

It looks pretty tight with the differential right next to the water inlet. How much room is there?

[Motorcitydak]

lol, really not much clearance at all but it does fit in nicely between the bracket I made for the diff and the yoke. I am thinking I may trim up that inlet and run the tightest 90 degree elbow I can find. I will have to get a picture from the side as well.

What do you guys think I should run for a carrier bearing on the drivers side shaft? Also where should it ride? On the center shaft or the CV shoulder? I have to measure them again to see what sizes I am working with

[FRENCHBLUE72]

That lotus is sick!!!!!

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks French! I love that car, now just have to make my Charger a larger version of it

[Motorcitydak]

Hmmm, guess it has been a while since I have done anything to this thing. Seems like I go a few weeks with every spare minute in the garage then a few months off in between. Gotta cut that out if I ever want to get this thing on the road.

I plan on a bit of work on the Charger coming down the line in the next few weeks. No new parts are on their way rite now, I just want to see more progress. I am still working on the motor mount rite now. I think 1 more day at that and I will be finished up, motor will finally be attached to the car. Here is what I have been up to the last few work days

Because of where the motor sits and where the front sub frame is, the motor has to go in thru the bottom. That means that I cannot just have motor mounts welded to the frame rails bolting to the engine block. I built the bar that I mentioned earlier, here are some bad pics of it. I could not find my camera when I was building it but you can see that the passenger side bar and tilted inward as much as possible to not interfere with the front driveshaft (never realized how ugly those welds look, need to take a wire brush to them!)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20271-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20261-1.jpg

From there, I needed something to go on the frame side. Just the frame isn't thick enough for this. I used 3/16 for the inside pieces, 1/8 for the outside ones. These are 7x3 inch plates, here they are tach welded together so that the bolt holes will line up perfectly

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20231-1.jpg

Then they each got a bunch of holes, mostly 3/8. The 3/16 plates got threaded. I have 2 1/2 inch holes in each side, they are for alignment pins that I made from butchering a few 1/2 bolts

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20241-1.jpg

Here are the pins that I placed, they are welded on the back side to the 3/16 plates. I figure that they will make lowing the car onto the engine just that much easier

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20291-1.jpg

The 3/16 plates could finally be welded into place on the frame rails. The 1.75 tube will fall rite onto the middle of these brackets. It appears that I overestimated how wide the frame rails are, the 2 outside bolt holes on the brackets cannot be used because they are at the outside wall of the rail. I think that 8 3/8 bolts will be more than enough tho so I am not concerned. Once the plates were welded on, I drilled holes in the frame then ran a tap thru again to cut threads into the frame rail also

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20311-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20301-1.jpg

Then I had to wrap it up for the day, the motor got slid back home. I have to cut up the tube a little so that the brackets fall into it slightly. I think I will cut about 1/2 inch from the top of the tube and get as long of a weld seam as possible. Here is about where they will be. Sorry for even more bad pics, this area is very tight and not easy to get a decent angle for a picture

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF2034-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF2033-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF20321-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

Something quite magical happened over this weekend. I got food poisoning from some jacked up jimmy dean's breakfast sammich the size of a silver dollar. That is not the interesting part of the weekend however. Thankfully while that was setting in to full affect, I was busy toiling away on the Charger. For the first time in who know's how long, the car actually has an engine physically attached to it. I finished up the engine mount/crossmember thing I built. I can say that I am already thankful that I built in those alignment pins because they really helped line it up as I was lowering the car onto the engine. Then with it all in and the bolt holes lined up perfectly, I lifted the car up again and removed my engine cart. Now it is sitting there and I started bolting the front diff back in. There is a slight clearance issue with the driveshaft yoke and the engine so a little clearance work with a grinder is in order there. Stock, Mopar put the engines 2 inches towards the passenger side. Mine had to go 3 inches. I needed room for my feet on the pedals, but also the front diff

Here is the finally completed crossmember

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF2035-1.jpg

and the motor back in, bolted to the car but before I laid the diff back in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF2036-1.jpg

I finished up the welding on some of the diff mount tabs but really not much else to see in this pic. You can see the space I left for the front driveshaft tho by kicking in the bottom of the passenger side mount

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/11/DSCF2038-1.jpg

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

Wow, I've read this entire thread twice now and I gotta say, GREAT WORK!!! I have one question about the NV147 Tcase: do you know how much torque those things will take? I want to use one in my own AWD build. I will be following this build to the end. Again, GREAT WORK!!!

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks so much! I also have spent so much time on this website reading all the way thru a lot of build threads. I really like to find them when they are super long that way you get to see years worth of updates. Also very cool to hear about more AWD projects, you should let everyone see what you are working on.

Doing research on transfer cases, New Venture named them in a specific way. NV just means New Venture, the manufacturer's name. The first digit is the number of selectable speeds. A typical 4x4 has a 2 speed so they are usually labeled with a 2. The 147 is a non-shiftable unit which is better in this case because there is less weight, rotating parts and things to go wrong. It is still the same physical size however.

The second digit is the one that refers to the cases strength/torque handling abilities. The higher the number, the stronger the case. In the 90's trucks, a 231 case was VERY common to be had in just about everything. In this case, the 4 denotes a slightly stronger case. I however was never able to get an actual power/strength ability. If you want to hear a Hp/Tq number, I do not know that. If you find out, I would be interested to know but as of rite now I cannot say. I do know that the Jeep Grand Cherokee is not a light vehicle and the 247 transfer case is not a common failure point on regularly off roaded jeeps with v8's and big tires. All that being said, I would tip toe over the 500hp/tq range with much apprehension and probably reinforce the floor to protect you incase the case does blow.

The last digit if I remember correctly refers to either the type of clutch or slip assembly in the case. I do not know much about that one.

As far as I know, there is no NV -5- transfer case. I believe that you are left with either a 3 or a 4.

All that being said, I do not think that I will be running the 147 case in my car. It is rather large for one. The other reason is that it is built to run a drivers side front differential. Mine is on the passenger side. You can flip SOME transfer cases very easily just by mounting it differently. This is not one of them. These newer transfer cases have oil pick up's on the inside. You would have to figure out a way to do that. I do not believe that there is a 'kit' for doing that. Instead, I have the transfer case from a Cadillac STS-4, same car that my front diff came from. It is more compact, weighs a little less I think and just about the same in adaptability. By that, I mean that it is not just going to bolt up anyway so it does not much matter what case I choose, i will have the same issues with any one. For strength, I do not know. All I know on that one is that the STS weighs quite a lot and I have read about those car's making 400hp+ and no mention's of an exploding transfer case.

Cliff notes: the NV147 case appears to be relatively strong with not many know failures. If it will fit in your application, run it and see what happens! Hope that helps

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

Thanks for the info. Yea I was wondering if you had a torque rating for that tcase. No worries, they are in pretty heavy vehicals for sure and I've never heard of one failing in a cherokee. The 247 comes behind the 5.2L V8 and as you said it is pretty heavy. I think it will do well for me. I'll start a thread once I finish my cutlass and start on my 57 stepside awd project. Keep up the good work, I'll be following closely.

[ace_xp2]

Not sure how much parity there is across the case types, but the nv146 (last digit means clutch as opposed to viscous) is rated to 2200ft/lbs at the input.

[Motorcitydak]

Wow, thats cool, thanks a lot for that info. My 1st gear is 2.66:1, so I guess I can make 800ft/lb rite!

[jensen_mza318]

Amazing work! really admirable quality of the work! I learned a lot reading this post!

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

Sweet, thanks for the info ace! Gonna start my search for a tcase at a decent price.

[Mr. Anderson]

Wow, another first time thread sighting. Awesome project!

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks guys. I am hoping to get some more work done to it soon.

57 Chevy, I just started talking to George at RS gear about their AWD T-56. Seems like they use a custom output shaft and adapter along with a corvette trans adapter. I think you also have to use a forward shifter. The T case has to be a 27 spline also.

Sigh.....that I am stuck at work tonight......

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

Damn Dak you're doing all the hard work for me! Thanks a bunch man, I really appriciate all the info. That sucks that you gotta work today. Can't wait for your next update. Happy Thanks giving to everyone here!

[Motorcitydak]

57 Chevy, I have been doing a lot of research lately for the transmission. I need to get it ready to go in very soon. Rockland has the setup if that is what you want to do. I have decided to save some $ and do it all myself. I will have to take the trans apart and install a front shift. I will also have to remove the main shaft and have it cut down and resplined for the transfer case. You will need a c5 corvette transmission extension housing and also a tail shaft to mount your transfer case to. I am then going to have the 2nd tail shaft cut down and welded to a plate that will bolt to the corvette housing. The shaft will have to be the correct length so that all works together nicely.

With that in mind, I needed to start to tear down my transfer case. I have decided to use the 147 I have. It is larger but I think it will work out better. This is a drivers side transfer case but after opening it up it does not look like it will be difficult to make it a passenger side one. Just the oil pickup, fill and drain plugs and the vent. I also wanted to get the input shaft out so I can take that to a machine shop once I get the t56 apart. Unfortunately this transfer case only has a 1 inch chain, I do not know yet if I can upgrade to something a little wider and stronger. I will deal with that later tho.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2040-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2041-1.jpg

I also decided that I wanted to change my upper control arms to something that was more easily adjustable. I thought about this for months, trying to figure out something that i liked. I was trying to find a setup that used a bolt in ball joint flange but never was able to. Then I decided that I would just get a round threaded one and weld some plate into the inside of it, so that is what I did. There are 3 3/16 plates welded to each one.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2046-1.jpg

I had big plans for the work I did over the weekend. I wanted to quickly install these new arms then work on finish welding in the front sub frame to the chassis. Well that did not go as planned. I got 1/2 x 5/8 rod ends for these new arms and they did not offer enough misalignment to fit in the brackets I already had made. I looked into 5/8 rod ends with high misaligment spacers but also did not want to go that route. I ended up deciding that I just had to for the 3rd time, change my upper control arm brackets. This time, I think I finally got what I want. The bad thing is that this took me all day and it ended up being the only thing I got done. I also spent a few straight hours with the grinder going and could barely see in the garage when that was done.

So the frame rails had to get naked again. You will also see the 30mm pillow block I got for the center shaft in another picture, I wanted to build its mount this weekend but didn't get to that either

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2045-1.jpg

Finally tho after all that work I basically was back to where I started with my new upper arms all connected. I even did a preemptive alignment to it, currently 1 degree of camber and 6 of caster. Also I hope you enjoy these pictures. My internet is HORRIBLE and took me 2 hours to load these up today!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2050-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2049-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

Another few days of work was done, again never seems like enough progress. I have been working on my sway bar setup. The conventional stuff seems to take up way too much room, weigh too much and well, I just do not like it. Adds to chassis flex if nothing else. So in keeping with my reinventing the wheel habits, here is the sway bar setup I will be running

I started with this

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2064_zps5344c7ef-1.jpg

made it look like that

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2066_zps80bd2015-1.jpg

and put it there

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2067_zpsd590813e-1.jpg

I had to remake the one arm of my rocker however. They had to be longer for the new sway bar mount. Their height now should allow more than enough clearance for the coilovers to go in there

Longer arms were made for the front as well then that is as far as I have gotten. More to come in the next few days

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2070_zpsadae10a8-1.jpg

The center bar that is the actual sway bar here is 5/8 inch 4340 bar. I know that it will be crazy rigid as it is now. I will have the center parts of the bar milled down to a specific vertical thickness at some point in the future. It will then be heat treated to keep a spring property to it

[Motorcitydak]

I did this while tapping my 2nd of 25 holes in that thick aluminum. Snapped my only 1/4x20 tap which kind of ruined my night. I read around online about how to remove it and finally came across this method. Everything else seemed very time consuming with either breaking the tap by smashing it to trying to drill it out with a bit that had to be of a much higher quality. Well I just welded a bit of material to the broken end of the tap then set a 3/8 hex nut over that, welded them together and the tap simply and easily turned out. Thankfully I had the tap in aluminum so no concern about welding to that. If it were in steel, it is still possible you just have to be more careful. Maybe even drill a hole the size of your tap into a penny (copper) so no weld gets onto that.


I also wanted to say that I got these Irwin taps from Home Depot. They have a straight shank just in front of the cutting teeth that make them go straight into the material. Much better than all the other taps I have that are just beveled on the ends. These will not thread all the way to the bottom of a hole because of that but they are so much easier to use!


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2083_zps328edcb9-1.jpg


This is my rear package tray, most of it will be removed. You will see why in a little bit.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2072_zps381e8915-1.jpg


Here, you will see something quite amazing. It is a completed front suspension. It has taken me a very long time to get to this point but finally. I still have some more welding and bracketry to do but everything is here minus a pair of Ride Tech triple adjustable coilovers


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2077_zps70dc5b5a-1.jpg


I finished up the rear suspension as well. There used to be a large piece of sheet metal in this area. I am not really sure what it is for, maybe ease of assembly? Does not matter now since i had to cut it out to make room for the sway bar assembly


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2079_zps666adf2a-1.jpg


Here is why that package tray gets to go away. I am going to replace it with a large piece of plexiglass so that you can see what I built thru the back window


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2082_zps02f5bd7b-1.jpg


Finally I had to set the car back down on all 4 wheels just to do it.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2084_zps676438b6-1.jpg


I am currently working on the transmission and transfer case situation. Hope to have that wrapped up some time relatively soon

[turboclevor]

constantly gets more intimidating, buy the way have you thought about the shifter location? just wondering because of how far back the motor is

[Motorcitydak]

Actually I am looking into shifters rite now. I will be using a forward shifter for this since I have a corvette tail shaft that will replace the Viper tail shaft. I also need to pick up a 27 spline t 56 main shaft. I think I will have to angle the shifter forward a little to get it closer to the steering wheel. Even in that forward spot, it will be a bit far back for me

[turboclevor]

i dont know if this would work or not but it just popped in my head, if you took a stock shifter and made a mount up where it is comfortable for you with a pivot point so that it is fixed in the center and then just send an arm back to the stock shifter so that it moves back and forth, side to side like a normal shifter, kind of uses the linkage effect of the old toploaders

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks, that is a good suggestion. That is for sure a possibility and I have done some research on it before. I have a few pictures of a setup like that somewhere, just not sure where. Basically you just need a ball and socket joint with a shift lever on it. Use the stock shifter in the stock location and put a hole in the top. Use 2 flat pieces of metal to tie then 2 together and put some bronze bushings in the holes with shoulder bolts. I may still have to build it depending on how I feel about the placement. I cannot use to stock shifter location tho since I will be using a corvette tail shaft which I need to adapt to the transfer case. I have to run the front shifter no question and go from there

[dusterbd13]

theres a company that advertises in grassroots motorsports that already makes it....

have no idea of their name. its in the back....

[Restomod]

Mustangs Plus......But with your skills making one should be no prob!

[Motorcitydak]

That is pretty cool and I may have to build one based on shifter location. I would use shoulder bolts vs those regular grade 8 fasteners. Those will give some slop in the linkages and also wear them down

I got some good news today! I have to run 27 splines for the input/output on the trans and transfer case. There is no 30 spline input transfer case that I am aware of. There is a 32 and I can get a 32 spline output for the T 56 but did not want to have to deal with swapping the 32 into my T 56, the 27 is a direct swap. It will be weaker than my stock Viper 30 but we will just have to see how it goes. Now on to the next issue, my 147 transfer case came from a Jeep with all use 23 spline outputs. Chevy used the 4 series case and 27 spline outputs but never used a 1 speed case. I have been looking at pictures of the different Chevy inputs to see if anything would work. After that I just had to take a gamble that New Venture (the transfer case manufacturer) would not want to make different parts and sizes for every case. I hoped that all 4 series would be the same input. The good news is that I was about 98% correct in my thinking. I bought this input off Ebay from a Chevy 243 transfer case. It is 27 spline input and comes with the locking hub that would be used it put the case into neutral, if mine had a shifter which it does not. I like that since it will save weight. I checked it out in my 147 housing, the hub fits nicely into the front bearing. The hub fits onto my T case shaft. All I have to do now is figure out a way to lock the hub in position so that it will always be engaged on the input shaft. I am thinking either a shaft collar or a lock ring but the lock ring would mean that I would also need to have the t case shaft machined with a groove for the lock ring to sit in. This weekend I will be reassembling the transfer case just to be sure that everything will go back together without issue.

So here is what I just got. The new input shaft is on the left, hub in the middle. The stock 147 input is on the right. You can see here that my only other issue is that the groove for the input's lock ring is in a different location. I will have to have that machined so the ring can be placed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2090_zps520c5f97-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2091_zps50ab7174-1.jpg

[iadr]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/12/DSCF2049-1.jpg

I'm interested in that front STS diff/axle for another project. Quick Google suggest that is 3.23 ratio and that is the sole option? Or is that R&P from another more common application? I assume it's an open diff?

[Motorcitydak]

Yep, 3.23 ratio. As far as I know there are no other options for a ratio. I do not know if something from a different application would fit either. I wish that it would because I would really like 3.73's. I would not be surprised to find out that the diff or at least ring a pinion are the same on another application that would have a better ratio. Maybe from a trail blazer or pick up? I just do not really know. Yes, it is also an open diff. If you do find out any info, please let me know. Good luck on your project!

Edit: also keep in mind that when searching for the front diff, some times they are listed as a carrier. So if you use car-part.com, put in front carrier and that is what you would need

[Motorcitydak]

I have some good and bad news about the transfer case. I was messing around with it, making sure everything will fit in alright. Well the main shaft fits into the new 27 spline input just fine, but not deep enough. There is a needle bearing inside the shaft, the new input had it too far backwards. That fix was simple because I simply drove it a little further forward. The main problem was that the splined area of the shaft would then hit the inside of the new input. After measuring about 20 times, I knew that the new shaft was about 3/8 more shallow than the stock input. I did try to assemble the transfer case like that but there were clearance issues with the shaft being that far back. I did not want to take yet another gamble and buy another main shaft to see if it would fit. This is what I ended up doing, had to trim the shaft a bit to allow the input to fit. The good news is that it now does fit nicely

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2092_zps3dfc568f-1.jpg

What I did realize while doing all of this was if you do want to do something like this and have a 1 speed transfer case, just buy a regular 2 speed one that are 1000x more available. Take it apart and just remove all the shifters and planetary stuff. Lock in the hub and you are all done. No custom junk like I am doing

[Motorcitydak]

With the transfer case mostly sorted, I am turning my attention to the transmission. I know that a chevy f body 27 spline shaft will fit rite in in place of my 30 spline viper main shaft. The biggest problem I kept having thinking about that is the fact that it is actually quite a downgrade in strength. I just could not bring myself to put in such a large and well known failure point in my drivetrain. If I have to have a fuse on my car, I do not want it to be transmission! The only thing tying me to 27 spline is the transfer case input. There are no 30 spline inputs anywhere that I know of so I did the same thing everyone else on here would do, crank that $#!* to 11. I am going to make this trans the strongest thing in the whole car. I just ordered the parts I will need to make this 32 spline. I have the SSR main shaft and a few other parts on their way now. Thankfully tax time came around to pay for my transmission. I still want to order a high performance rebuild kit for it and I also need a mid shifter for it. Once that is all here, it will go in and then I can just about call the trans done.

I did the tear down on my T56 to get ready for the new parts. As soon as I get my trans back together, my old stuff will be available. I can sell my Viper main shaft and tail shaft together if one of you guys wants to upgrade your 27 spline unit

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2123_zps76572bf9-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2124_zpscfcb3e94-1.jpg

As I was taking this apart, I kept every since piece in order by doing this. They are all labeled and zip ties to the boards so I know where everything came from. I did not know the correct names for most of these pieces as you can tell. I just wrote whatever I felt would help me remember them the best

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2125_zps9d92e21e-1.jpg

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

So is there a 32 spline input available for the 147? I like your idea of just scrapping the planetary stuff from the 247 and locking the hub as I can't seem to find a 147 anywhere around the SF Bay area. Our junkyards are pretty terrible though.

[Motorcitydak]

From what I have seen, the input for any 4 series case is the same and will fit any other one. The only difference I am aware of now is that the input bearing was available in 2 different width's. I guess 0.940 and 0.6something. If you look at the 2 input shafts that I have in the picture above, you will see what I am talking about. The new input that I should have on Wednesday has the 32 spline input gear and the 0.940 bearing fitment.

I can also say that it is not worth trying to find the 147. Here is a link to the input shaft I just bought

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NP241-TRANSFER-CASE-INPUT-SHAFT-32-SPLINE-88-94-GMC-CHEVY-W-94-BEARING-/230916379455?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35c3b0533f&vxp=mtr

That will also give you a list of every vehicle that the 32 spline 241 case came in. I Personally liked the clutch in the 7 case however so I still am happy that that is what I am running. Remember that the last number refers to the clutch in the certain case. This link has TONS of information about all the different transfer cases. That can help you decide just what clutch you would like to run

http://rsgear.com/technical.aspx

If I could go back, I would have picked up a 247 because they are relatively common, then get that 32 spline input. Gut the transfer case of all of its 2 speed abilities and plug the holes that were left.

Also to help you out some more, try to find the tail shaft from a c5 vette. That will finish off your T-56. I also have the tailshaft from a 45rfe that will bolt to the trans. My plan is to put the vette tailshaft on then have the 45rfe tail milled down and an aluminum plate welded to it then drilled to bolt to the vette tail. The 45rfe tail will house a seal as well so that is what will seal off the end of the trans.

As for junk yards, use car-part.com. It is a national database and if all else locally fails, you can call one of them up and have what you want shipped to you. I however would recommend just finding a 247 from a grand cherokee or something. Off road guys hate them and usually will dump them for 1-200. Check the parts for sale section of pirate4x4.com, there are tons of guys out in cali by you. You will take a gamble on the clutch however and they are a few hundred to replace


Also to anyone out there, can you recommend a good performance rebuilt kit that I could pick up to allow better shifts at around 7000rpm? I was looking at the stage 2 from thegearbox.org but would like to hear some input

[Motorcitydak]

To keep up my recent trend of taking everything that I have apart, I decided to tear into the front diff a little. I have been searching a lot lately trying to find out what ring and pinion are inside the Cadillac STS-4 front diff I am using here. I have been doing that to try to find a different gear ratio. The stock one is 3.23 and I would really like something a bit deeper. Internet searching turned up nothing so I had to get my hands dirty and sniff gear oil yet again.

Turns out that this ring gear is quite small, measures only 6.325 across. I was also looking out for any kind of part number or other ID that I could find. I did find some numbers scribed into the ring. They were not stamped, look like they get hand written onto each piece with a dremel or something, all the numbers were irregular so i know that a machine did not make them. P43417 were scribed onto both the side of the ring gear and the front of the pinion. 83.50 and 59.09 were also on the ring gear. I have to assume that p43417 is Getrag's part number for this ring and pinion set but GM does not show anything that I have found for it yet. I have not even been able to find the ring and pinion available anywhere, only the complete front diff.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2126_zps0a01cc12-1.jpg

I do like the front diff housing. It is relatively light weight and easy to work on

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2127_zpsfc2164c4-1.jpg

Plus it is sealed with a reusable O ring instead of RTV or a gasket that could tear. Since I have not been able to find a rebuild manual for something like this, I just had to check the torque of all the bolts that I removed to do this, then I torqued them back to that when I put it back together, which is already done

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2128_zps4d19d107-1.jpg

I also got in my new input shaft. This is the big 32 spline one and better news still is that it fits! The new one is on the right

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2129_zps36201bb2-1.jpg

Yeah, its pretty big

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2130_zps212688d1-1.jpg

and it fits the front bearing perfectly. I had to adjust the needle bearing inside the input just a little to make it fit how it should. The slide collar also fits it just like how it did the 27 spline input. Another good thing is that this new input is longer. It will give me more engagement on the trans main shaft, 2.325 inches vs 1.75 with the other 2 inputs.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2131_zpsa354cc94-1.jpg

I assembled the transfer case again so that I can start working out all the things I need to do to flip it properly. There are a few holes to oil the bearings, drain and fill holes and vent holes but most importantly is the oil pump pickup tube. Also is this rubber plug. It allows access to the rear bearing which also handles thrust for the main shaft. It is held in place with this lock ring. I think that a bead of RTV will seal this up nicely even tho it should be fine without it, I just do not want a leak

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/DSCF2133_zps34c6cb2d-1.jpg

[ryeguy2006a]

Excellent fabrications skills.

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

Thanks a bunch for all the info Dak! Lots of good stuff there. I've been looking at Rockland Gear's new T56 4x4 application but it's a bit pricey. I don't have my T56 yet so still not sure. I've been asking around about your front diff but no one seems to know much of anything about it. I'll post if I find anything. That ring gear is pretty darn small, I was suprised to see it's only 6.325. The 147 has a front pump for clutch activation right? How are you gonna reposition the tube so it picks up fluid when it's flipped? I thought it picked up fluid from a kind of sump at the bottom of the Tcase. I know if the pump is starved of fluid it'll destroy the Tcase pretty fast. seen one where the tube wasn't put back in properly after a rebuild and it only lasted like 1000 miles before it gave of the ghost. Keep up the good work, this thread has helped me out immensley already.

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks ryeguy!

57, no problem, I am glad to help and hope that there are more AWD P-T cars in the future. I too looking into RSG's 4x4 trans. I remember being told that for a 27 spline 4x4 setup it was 1600 for just the conversion kit, not installed or including a trans. It seems like any T-56 could be used for this. I am a little nervous about the ring gear but I know that they go into 4000+lb Cadillac's with 300+hp. Also the front end does not see too much of the power, however the 147 can transfer 100% of the power to the front if the rear had absolutely no grip at all.

The 147 has a pump mounted behind the clutch. It picks up oil and pumps it thru the main shaft to send fluid where needed. It does have a sump area with a magnet in there. I will not be duplicating the sump but am hoping to get that all figured out soon. You are correct tho, if that pickup tube is not sucking in oil, these cases will only last a very short amount of time. Plus the clutch would probably not work at all without oil being pumped to it

[Motorcitydak]

Well I have to say that I am very pleased with the service that I got from partszoneonline.com. They are run at a Chevy dealership in PA and that is where I ordered my trans parts from. Everything is brand new OEM stuff and they had the best prices I could find. I ordered everything Friday, they said it would take them 3 days to get it from the Chevy warehouse in Lansing (which is only about 100 miles from me). They had it shipped out to me yesterday and Fedex dropped it off today. I am pretty happy about it all. Here are the parts that I got

SSR 32 spline main shaft....pretty awesome and HUGE sitting next to the stock Viper shaft

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2134_zps76666d13-1.jpg

It is also a bit shorter which is fine for me, just means that my overall drivetrain will be a little shorter. I am not sure yet if I will end up cutting down the shaft any further

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2135_zps41d545bc-1.jpg

Even better is that this all fits together now!! The main shaft fits about 1/2 of its splined length into the t case input, I am more than happy with that amount of engagement

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2137_zps78efdfbe-1.jpg

You can see an area on the SSR shaft rite around the middle that has less splined area than the Viper. That is because of a new retainer style of 5th gear (im pretty sure its 5th at least). So, I had to get a new gear but you can also have the stock one machined. Here is the stock one and new one

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2143_zpse621d5d9-1.jpg

and the retainers that hold it all in place. You also need 2 3/16 ball bearings. I have ordered some which will be here very soon. If anyone else does this and needs some of those bearings, let me know because I had to buy 100 of them, I'd bet I end up with a few extra

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2144_zpsbb576011-1.jpg

Also, I have been thinking a lot lately about the horrible gear ration in that STS front diff. It is just annoying and will give me terrible performance. Some may remember that this whole AWD direction with this car came about after playing the video game Forza. Well I still play Forza 4 and have built this car in a few different ways in that game. I put in the Viper's gear ratio's, made it as light as possible and started messing with the gear ratio. I cannot explain how much I hate the 3.23's. I would rather just not build the car at all if that is how it is going to end up. I am planning on a 7,000rpm red line, 1st gear does not run out until 60!! I just had to change this. 3.73 was not much better. 4.10, still annoying. The most happy I got was 4.56. 0-60 fell from 3.9 to just 3.2 seconds and I was doing 2+ seconds a lap better. Shift points were pretty good and in 6th gear, 75mph will be 2,300rpm. So, the Cadillac/Getrag front diff had to be 4.56...but it cannot. I looked into a custom ring and pinion, not possible. Then I started looking at different front differentials that I could run. It is a bit difficult finding one that is compact yet still re-gearable. I found the GM 7.2 front diff came in quite a lot of things (Safari van, Envoy, s10/blazer, zr2, syclone/typhoon and trailblazer) and there is an aftermarket 4.56 gear available for it. They all have the same gear but the cases are all different. Most have a very large long side tube and disconnects. I finally hit pay dirt with the Envoy/trailblazer front diff. They are relatively compact. The disconnect lives on the other side of the engine, separate from the diff itself. They came in the trailblazer SS as well with a 4.10 ratio. Still not quite what I wanted tho (just the ratio itself) and of course the price was jacked up because it is from an SS. Some searching online found me a local junk yard with a bunch of 3.42 diffs for $150....off I went

Came home with this guy. Here it is sitting next to the Cadillac STS diff. I started cleaning it up a little. It is FILTHY. I was not so lucky to score another brand new diff like I did the STS one. This was also a drivers side diff but it should not be too bad to mount it where ever I dam well please

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2138_zps8d4da0e2-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2139_zpsfcd219a9-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2140_zps881f44f0-1.jpg

It is actually about the same exterior size, there are just some extra mounting ears on the new diff. Also unfortunately the spline count and size is different. They are larger so that is good news for me at least for strength I guess. The pocket book is not going to like custom CV shafts that I will end up needing tho but too bad.

I wasted no time at all tearing this one open either. What I found kind of sucks. This diff has quite a lot of miles on it and I doubt the oil was ever changed. It is pretty black inside and the bearings are toast. Very gritty feeling, plus the one side bearing came off when I pulled on it. Either I am way stronger than previously assumed (doubtful) or it was about ready to fail. It does not look like it began to spin, but for sure ready for a rebuild.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2141_zps7fe4b227-1.jpg

I left the diff out of the case just so it is easier to hold into place for mounting purposes. It is only 39 pounds tho, so not too bad and just about the same as the STS diff, 14 pounds lighter tho with the diff not in. I held it into place one time so far. Pretty good fit I have to say. It will have to go a little further towards the passenger side to clear the engine block, but the STS diff had the same problem. I was just going to clearance the engine so I did not need custom CV shafts, now who cares?! I also have to cut off the front lower mounting hole to clear my steering rack. I will get to working on that very soon tho. Stay tooned!

[Bryce]

cant wait to see this done!

[Motorcitydak]

That makes at least 2 of us! I would say the same for you but you are already driving yours which kind of seems unfair. I thought that these cars never actually did anything like move under their own power. Just endless years of time and money spend with no pay off, ever

[Motorcitydak]

Well, bad news time. The 32 spline shaft does not come close to just falling into place of a Viper shaft. I will have to work on this one quite a bit to see if I can get something to work out here

[ent72olds]

You have no fear my brother!

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks bud! I am hoping to get that figured out as soon as possible

[Motorcitydak]

I started work on the new front diff last night. I did not have that much time so I decided to spend it building a new mount vs cutting out the old stuff. I will still do that, but later on. I decided that I wanted to start adding some flare to the pieces i build. Everything I have done is decent but really not that cool to look at. I decided that these mounts would be a bit cooler to look at. The front one I am planning will be really sweet I hope but I have not started on it yet. I also want to add that i LOVE step drill bits! They drill out holes so nicely on center quickly then I can throw down a really nice chamfer on the edges of each hole

First I had to deal with the fact that Chevy did not think about me when building this diff. I had to cut off the front bottom mounting hole.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2145_zps2ea174f8-1.jpg

Then cleaned the edges up with a flap wheel, came out pretty nice I think

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2150_zpsd6e4741f-1.jpg

Then I got to working on the mounts. I first thought about solid mounting everything but the thoughts of the noise and vibration thru that got me worried. I believe these are solid mounted to the engine in a stock setup but a little dampening here will probably be a welcome thing. There are 3 spots I will be mounting the diff. This rear one, one on the bottom side just behind the diff center and the front.

I went with a pretty simple stud setup here. The bolt may stick out quite a bit but I figured it better to have it longer so I can cut it down to clear the front driveshaft vs one too short and not fitting a lock nut on it. The bolt is welded to the face plate then small brackets tie to the bushing tube. After that I started getting creative. After some cardboard templates, I ended up with this. Drilled out, curvy and bent up. Now this is my first attempt at something like this so I would really like some opinions on this thing. It has to be removable from the car to allow the engine to drop out the bottom so just like my engine mounts, it will get welded to a plate. That plate will be able to bolt to some more plates that are welded and drilled/tapped on the frame rail. Also the holes purpose is to allow any dirt, oil or water to drain thru and not collect around the bushing

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2147_zps4ee26bb8-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2148_zpsa4829755-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2149_zpsfeb02a42-1.jpg

[Bryce]

nice work steve. good luck with everything

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

"decent but really not cool to look at"!?! Have you seen your sway bar? I'd say that's pretty damn cool to look at. I get what you're saying tho. I like the new piece. With some paint it'll look pretty cool for sure. keep up the good work!

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks 57! I have been hoping that you would see this so you could see the new diff I got. Finally we have some options for gear ratio's. I guess what I was thinking that while most things I have built so far do their job, they are not specifically cool to look at from purely an aesthetic point of view. I am still in the middle of figuring out my trans issues, I have some light at the end of the tunnel but am not there yet. Also I am hoping to continue work on the diff mount tonight. Hope to have it wrapped up within the next week

[Motorcitydak]

I got to working on the front mount for the diff mount last night. I want to get that one in place before I permanently locate the rear mount. I did not have such a clear cut plan on this one as I did the rear mount but I think it came out quite well. I had to have it reach over the steering rack. I also placed the bushing on the front side of the tube so I can get the bolt in and out easier. It took quite a while to build because i was bending, twisting, tapering, cutting and tweaking every piece of metal. I also did some more quick work with the step drill making holes in things I have to say that I am pleased with how it came out in the end. Keep in mind that the front diff is not straight in these pics. Also my 30 spline Viper transmission is for sale

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2151_zps4c1a00e5-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2152_zps83099d5a-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2153_zpsd7a121f8-1.jpg

[57 Chevy AWD Truck]

Yea I like that idea, I was thinking about what front diff was in the trailblazer ss cuz it's a V8 and a pretty heavy suv. Do you know anything on locker/limited slip for these diffs? I like the holes in the new parts, makes it look professional! I might scrap my idea of using a 1500 truck front diff for one of these. Depends on axle's and such. What are you gonna do for the long side axle? Two piece with CV's and a carrier bearing like a long driveshaft in a truck? Or is it short enough for just a longer axle?

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks! It is something simple that makes the parts look a little bit better i think. The trailblazer is pretty heavy and also plenty powerful. I am not expecting any problems or complaints from this front diff. But if any come up, it will not be hard to find another one. I did not like the 1500 truck diff because of the long side tube being attached and just so large. Also the CV flanges take up a lot of room. Plus you have the axle disconnect that takes up space and adds weight.

For differentials, gear wise there is 3.42, 3.73 and 4.10 available stock, 4.56 is available in the aftermarket for I think $175 for the set, plus master install kit. Diff wise however there is no LSD available. They come as open as can be and then there is a lock-rite locker available now, which just replaces the spider gears with locking assemblies that pretty much allow 0 difference in wheel speed. I have one in the front end of my pick up truck. I can drive with just 1 wheel hub locked in and that tire will still always spin with 35 inch tall beefy tires and a 5.7 Hemi to motivate them, so they are not a good idea here. A LSD for the front end is very different than one for the rear. A front will only lock the front tires together but allow about 50% slip on acceleration ONLY. Deceleration they need to be completely open to allow you to maneuver, stop on slick surfaces or turn on grippy ones. I would guess that is why no one has made such a thing available for this diff. They are primarily in mid sized SUV's that, if they get any aftermarket work at all, are lifted with mall crawler equipment and tires and left that way until the soccer mom decides she wants something new. Then a kid will get it, put in a lunch box locker (lock rite) until he eventually does a solid axle swap. There really is no performance street driving applications except the TB SS. If there is enough support for a good front diff from that crowd, we may get lucky and get one some day but it has yet to come about

What I am thinking for that for the CV's is to pick up a one of the trailblazer cv shafts, then take my passenger side one apart. I moved the diff a little further back and towards the passenger side frame rail so even the length of the passenger side CV I have now will be too long. My thought is to have the shaft from the pass CV cut down and re-splined to fit into the TB inner CV, then that CV will fit into the diff. Here is a listing for the shafts that shows the actual parts, lengths and spline counts. They are exactly the same side to side, I assume so Chevy could save a few bucks and cut down on part numbers. Plus they are not that expensive

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PAIR-NEW-COMPLETE-FRONT-RIGHT-LEFT-DRIVESHAFT-ASSEMBLY-TRAILBLAZER-BRAVADA-9-7X-/120997907645?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AEnvoy&hash=item1c2c098cbd&vxp=mtr

For the long side, my thoughts are to have a custom center shaft made up that will go into the diff, fill the seal then run to a carrier bearing on the drivers side. Then have that end splined to hold the other CV. Now, there are some options there. In that add, you can see that the TB CV's are male ends on everything. They are also 27 spline on the wheel ends. Also the TB wheel bearings are longer than the corvette ones I am running, plus the corvette/cadillac ones are 30 spline. So TB CV's will not fit into my wheel bearings. It will be easier and cheaper to have a male/male center shaft made up VS one with the TB required female end on the drivers side. For that reason, I believe that I will keep the stock Cadillac drivers side CV since it has the female end on it. Hudlow gear and axle is who I am planning on having do the re-spline on the pass CV and make the custom center shaft. I have the center shaft from the Cadillac and the TB (the TB one is just a stubby 11 inches tho because it has to go into the front axle disconnect) so at least I can send them those for R&D to assist in making the one I need, all I will have to do is tell them how long to make it. I could even cut and weld the 2 together then just send that to them and say make me exactly this just in 1 piece.

I do not want to use the TB front axle disconnect just to joint the front drive together. I think it would take up too much space, add weight and parts to fail plus them I would have to deal with the length issue, I doubt that it would just fall into place perfectly as I needed.

I also thought about custom CV shafts. I have researched it a little bit. While it is possible, I think that it would be money spend unnecessarily. They can run around $1000 and while rated to nice HP levels, I do not think i will need it. Even if I have 500hp, the transfer case will probably never send more than 50% to the front end. However, it is 100% variable based on where traction is so the specs show that 0-100% can be sent to the front. If that did happen, I may be in trouble.

I am completely open to suggestions here as well

[Motorcitydak]

I got a little lazy and fell behind, I did end up wrapping up some of the front diff mounts however. After I finally got the diff placed, the front was pretty simple with just a few tabs. The rear was a bit harder just because it has to be removable from the frame. In order for the engine to drop straight out of the bottom, that mount cannot be there. I welded the mount I already built to a piece of 1/8, then drilled a piece of 3/16 to be mounted on the frame. I still need to finish up that weld but the plate if mounted. One issue was that I mounted the plate with pilot holes drilled but then had to drill the frame. With the engine still in, I really did not feel like dropping it just to drill 4 holes then put it back in. I picked up one of those cheapo right angle drill attachments which did the job. Then I tapped it for 1/4-20 bolts. 4 of them attach the bracket to the frame. I still need to build a 3rd mount. I want that one on the bottom of the diff. I think that those 3 will hold it securely.

Sorry that these pictures are not the most revealing, my light was not good. Good thing is that the diff is now bolted in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2167_zpsc5febed7-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2166_zps544acbb8-1.jpg

More good news is that my new T-56 showed up. It is from a '99 Corvette, it has the triple/double synchro's and the MM6 gearing. I weighed this thing, 115 pounds with no oil in it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2161_zps644413c3-1.jpg

I got busy then and turned it into another one of my parts boards

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2164_zps65d24390-1.jpg

Here is my SSR shaft next to the C5 vette shaft. They are nearly identical in every place where it counts. I still may need to use the SSR 1st gear and retainer setup

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2165_zps8b7cc7c4-1.jpg

[Oramac]

You, sir, are out of your mind. And I mean that in absolutely the best way possible! Awesome build! I'm going to follow this to completion as well.

I've long dreamed of scratch-building a car, and seeing all your fab work really got my gears moving too. I don't have anything like the funding yet, but research can commence!

Can't wait to see the final product! It's gonna be magazine cover story worthy, I think.

[Motorcitydak]

Thanks a lot Neil! I am really happy you like it so much. One thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that I am spending WAY less money this way VS buying something to bolt in. A bolt in front suspension for my car can run $3-6,000. Believe it or not this is the cheap way. The C5 transmission is around half the price of any other T-56, the transfer case I may have $400 into. The front diff will run around $500 all done and the CV shafts are around $100. I think that in the end I may have $1500-$2000 into all of the all wheel drive parts. Maybe $1000 into the suspension parts not counting the coil overs.

Rather than just open your wallet, open your mind and think about what you want. The brackets I build come from $10 pieces of steel you can get anywhere. Start to practice fabrication and this stuff will come easily. I am sure that anyone can do it if you just dedicate your time to it.

I also am holding out hope that it will land in the pages of a magazine some day. I am getting impatient now so I am just trying to work on it all I can to finally get there, maybe get it running this summer/fall

[Oramac]

Thanks a lot Neil! I am really happy you like it so much. One thing that I keep thinking about is the fact that I am spending WAY less money this way VS buying something to bolt in. A bolt in front suspension for my car can run $3-6,000. Believe it or not this is the cheap way. The C5 transmission is around half the price of any other T-56, the transfer case I may have $400 into. The front diff will run around $500 all done and the CV shafts are around $100. I think that in the end I may have $1500-$2000 into all of the all wheel drive parts. Maybe $1000 into the suspension parts not counting the coil overs.

Rather than just open your wallet, open your mind and think about what you want. The brackets I build come from $10 pieces of steel you can get anywhere. Start to practice fabrication and this stuff will come easily. I am sure that anyone can do it if you just dedicate your time to it.

That is good to know! At this point I don't even have a garage or a welder, so I'm mostly SOL for the scratch build, but I can practice with my 68 at least.

Thanks for the tips!

[Motorcitydak]

No problem Neil, we all were there at one time. Just work your way up to it, take a class on welding or something if you get the opportunity. Something else is that most people think that you need a nice big shop with tons of equipment to do this stuff. I am doing this whole build in a tiny 2 car garage. The Charger lives next to my Lotus so I just have to push that outside when the sparks fly. Then all the tools get rolled out for the work to start. It all gets put away when I am done. The only real real issue is that I cannot do much if it is raining since that car does not get wet. Also I am not rich, pretty far from it in fact. I just have my hobbies and this is my favorite one so it is what I like to spend most of my time and money on

I made a pretty stupid mistake with some of the parts I had ordered, the transmission gear and retainer setup for the SSR shaft that I have. I sent the parts back to get a refund on them before being 100% sure that I did not need them. I assumed that the C5 would have the same 1st gear, it does not as you can see in the pics of the main shaft. The C5 just uses a lock ring and spacer which will not fit on the SSR shaft properly. Sooooooo, I had to get my stuff shipped back to me, should have it back tomorrow.

I need to get my adapter setup going so that I can wrap up this trans and transfer case. It looks to be going quite well rite now. To keep things lighter, I just put the main shaft back into the trans case. This is with the Viper mid plate, C5 input shaft and SSR 32 spline main shaft. I put the 3-4 gears and synchro assy back on only because I needed to press the main shaft front bearing on and I did not want to have to take it off again later

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2168_zpsa65679fa-1.jpg

Then the main and tail housings went back on. Now the trans only weighs about 40 pounds so it is a lot easier to move around. I am going to gut the transfer case as well to make that easier to move around too. Also the C5 tail has a seal at the back of it which seals perfectly to the SSR main shaft

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2169_zpsb15a7672-1.jpg

Here is the 545rfe tail housing that I have to adapt this thing all together. This one has a transmission mount which is nice. I am very pleased with the way this is going

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2170_zpsc18aea62-1.jpg

and then I stabbed the two together. Obviously the transfer case will be flipped the other way. There is just under 5 3/4 inches between the 2 mating surfaces. The 545rfe tail is 4 3/16 so I have some room to make up but that is good news. Also if I need it to be shorter, I can cut down the SSR main shaft buy quite a bit to make it fit perfectly. Cannot wait to see this all together!!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2171_zps1bae4b85-1.jpg

[Motorcitydak]

I did some more work on the front diff, finally got the new lower mount done. I had to place the mount here because further forward or back would end up in the LCA mounts. I also did not like having just the 2 mounts under the bolts so I had to utilize the drain plug as well. Doing that made this mount very rigid.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2172_zps2cd383eb-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2173_zps2de19d84-1.jpg

For the other side of this mount, here is what I built. I wanted to brace the front and rear LCA mounts again because I cut the old one out to get the diff to fit. This mount does both things that I needed, brace the mounts and hold onto the lower mount. I also designed all the brackets so that I can lift the diff straight up to get it out of the car. The suspension crossmember thing has to be removed first to do that tho

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2174_zpsd2e996d5-1.jpg

Still need to finish up the welds around this tube but that needs to be done with the diff out which I will do later

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2177_zps78827b67-1.jpg

The diff is very rigidly mounted now with these 3 mounts. Should have no problem living with all the traction it has but also all the bushings are rubber so they will allow some insulation and movement for the diff

I just got these plates of 3/4 aluminum which I am working on to make my adapter plates for the transmission. It is taking quite a while but I hope to have them done sooner or later

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/02/DSCF2178_zpsc48e3c21-1.jpg

[bonecrrusher]

Holy crap - I did not know you where going with a manual trans.

So you have a c5 - t56 with an SSR main shaft - a CTS or STS front diff - what is the transfer case out of?

[Motorcitydak]

Yep, I had first thought of using a 545rfe 5 speed auto transmission but I really do hate auto's. I would never be happy driving the car wishing that I had a 3rd pedal.

Rite with the transmission, really the only part specific to the C5 T-56 is the tail shaft. I also needed the triple/double cone syncrho's so it was cheaper to just buy the C5 trans. Then it has a Viper mid plate, SSR main shaft and 1st gear with its retainer.

I have the Cadillac STS front diff but decided not to run it because there are no other gear ratio's available for it. I will be running 4.56's. I switched to the front diff from a Trailblazer/Envoy then had to re-do all of my mounts.

The transfer case is a NV147 from a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a 32 spline input from some Chevy application