Oil question. Conventional to Synthetic

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Hey guys,

Quick question. I'm flying down to Kentucky on Tuesday to pick up a 4th gen Camaro (LS1). It's got 32k on the clock, and the owner has been using regular Penzoil (spelling is evading me at the moment). When I get down there, I'm going to drop the oil and change it for the 750 mile trip home, I'll be using the same regular oil that is in the car as I don't want to change the filter (only has about 600 miles on it anyways).

When I get home I plan on changing the oil again, and switching to Synthetic. I'm going to use Mobil 1 10W30, and a mobil 1 or K&N filter (whatever I find locally first). Is there anything I should do special, or should I just switch right over? From all the research I've done, it seems most everyone with LS1s switches right over. I'm thinking I should be fine because of the relatively low miles, but I figured I'd ask you guys first. A quick response is appreciated as Monday night will be the last time I'll see the board, and I'll change oil on Weds.

Thanks!

[Norwoodx55]

I would not have a problem just changing over to syn. It is compatible with conventional oil. I here a lot of people claim syn. causes leaks. From what I have heard, it doesn't cause leaks, it just has an easier time working it's way out of existing ones.
Safe trip. Brett

[yody]

exactly what he said, Most stuff you hear about synthetic are myths. Just dump it in. the only thing i would be worried about, is if anything goes wrong the owner could say it was your fault since you changed the oil( like claming you forgot to fill it back up or something)

[myclone]

Not to horrify you but FWIW Ive torn down more than a hand full of engines that used penzoil and they all looked like this. Some not as bad some were worse but none the less I wouldnt use penzoil (or quakerstate for that matter) to start a fire let alone pour it into an engine.
http://gallery.turbotime.us/albums/myclone/ach.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

We call that Quaker State syndrome. All that Pennsylvania crude seems to do that. We run Mobil On in everything. Get it at Walmart in 5 quart jugs for $17

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the response! This is the second owner of the car, and he's only put about 4k miles on it in the two years he's owned it. So, hopefully he was the only one using penzoil. Maybe I'll put in regular mobil when i get down there, so that i won't have to drive home 750 miles on the penzoil. It will be all mobil one from here on out. Looks like I'll be making a trip to walmart to get it, too.

Thanks again!

[rockdogz]

Interesting - when I used to work at an auto parts store, one of the frequent bits of advice given out was that Quaker State and Pennzoil have something (paraffin maybe?) added to them and will cause that sludge to build up. I was never sure about that, and didn't want to tell people something I didn't know to be true. I figured if you changed it every 3K miles then you were probably ok and that stuff wouldn't have time to build up. However, I have always used Valvoline since then, and will shortly be going with Mobil-1 after the motor breaks in...

[myclone]

Interesting - when I used to work at an auto parts store, one of the frequent bits of advice given out was that Quaker State and Pennzoil have something (paraffin maybe?) added to them and will cause that sludge to build up. I was never sure about that, and didn't want to tell people something I didn't know to be true. I figured if you changed it every 3K miles then you were probably ok and that stuff wouldn't have time to build up. However, I have always used Valvoline since then, and will shortly be going with Mobil-1 after the motor breaks in...

Ive heard the same thing about the addatives but Ive also had ppl tell me the build up was from neglected oil changes that viewed the pic. Just so happens the engine in the pics was in a full size truck that the owner brought to me due to low oil press and the owner had EVERY single receipt for maint/repairs which included religious oil changes every 3-4k miles using penzoil. Other than the oil pump pick up being stopped up with build up and the oil drain back passages being stopped up the engine was fine. I pulled the intake, oil pan, and oil pump cleaned out all the build up, installed a new oil pump/pick up, added oil, and its running to this day (testament to the SBC durability IMO).

Anyways, Ive torn down/rebuilt prolly close to 100 or so SBCs in my time and every single one that had penzoil or quakerstate used in it had some build up with some of them being worse (a LOT worse) and some not nearly as bad as the engine in the pic. Either way I stick with Castrol GTX in my drivers/normally aspirated stuff but anything under boost gets Mobile 1 exclusively.

[graycamaro]

Penzoil does not cause sluge to build up. I have tore too many engines down that have ran on penzoil to belive it could cause sludge to build up inside the engine. My Bosses father in law ran penzoil in his 360 in his dodge pickup truck changing the oil every 3-5000 miles and at a 100000+ when it was tore down there was not only no sludge but the engine could of been honed and stayed at standard bore. Also have notice on engines that have metal to metal contact, such as solid flat tappet motors, Penzoil wears these parts less than valvoline. In fact there are racers in my area that are sponsored by valvoline but put nothing but penzoil in there engines.

Also when breaking in a new engine it is a good idea to break it in on conventional motor oil then switch to synthetic if thats what your going to run. I have nothing against synthetic oils or valvoline just wanteded to state some facts before everyone starts basing oils ability off of one mans experiences.

Thanks James

[myclone]

I have nothing against synthetic oils or valvoline just wanteded to state some facts before everyone starts basing oils ability off of one mans experiences.

Thanks James

Respectfully Id have to say this is one of those deals where I "call it like I see it". Im sure there are some penzoil users like your father that swear by the stuff and have had good luck with it or at least I would think so since they still make the stuff LOL. Personally, I wont touch it from my experience but then again if we all liked the same thing itd be a pretty boring world.

[gmachinz]

Or let's put it another way: all conventional oil has drawbacks (in comparisons with synthetics), period. But I have not heard any bad luck stories using Mobil 1 or any other quality synthetic oil. Mobil 1 all the way! -Jabin

[graycamaro]

Yeah true I have not heard anybody complain about synthetics other than blameing it for there oil leaks.

myclone sorry about my rant nothing against what you said just wanted to give another point of veiw. I belive there is more going on in the average street cars engine then anyone could possibly completely understand why one person has good experience with something and others have terrible experences. Same as people who have owned fords or owned chevys and had bad luck with one and good luck with another. How come two identical vehicals can leave the dealer and have regular scheduled maintnance done religiously only to have one engine fail before the other. If you took apart a brand new engine out of a production car or one of GMs crate motors you would be amazed at the tolerences they don't keep. We had a guy bring in a brand new gm crate engine because it wouldn't crank over. Upon dissassembly it was discovered that one of the pistons was actually pressed into the cylinder. As in the piston actually measured bigger than the cylinder it was in. You would think they would of realized that was a problem at the factory.

James

[myclone]

Yeah true I have not heard anybody complain about synthetics other than blameing it for there oil leaks.

myclone sorry about my rant nothing against what you said just wanted to give another point of veiw. I belive there is more going on in the average street cars engine then anyone could possibly completely understand why one person has good experience with something and others have terrible experences. Same as people who have owned fords or owned chevys and had bad luck with one and good luck with another. How come two identical vehicals can leave the dealer and have regular scheduled maintnance done religiously only to have one engine fail before the other. If you took apart a brand new engine out of a production car or one of GMs crate motors you would be amazed at the tolerences they don't keep. We had a guy bring in a brand new gm crate engine because it wouldn't crank over. Upon dissassembly it was discovered that one of the pistons was actually pressed into the cylinder. As in the piston actually measured bigger than the cylinder it was in. You would think they would of realized that was a problem at the factory.

James

James,

No offense taken here and I really didnt think you were directing anything towards me at all. I agree with what you said above as you'd be amazed at what John Q Public puts their engines through (or the whole car for that matter).

Along the lines of what you stated above about seeing different things from identical engines/oils/vehicles but different owners. Ive seen different degrees of sludge in penzoil engines myself where there was some sludge/build up but nothing amazing while other engines Ive seen that used penzoil were caked with the stuff even worse than the one in the pic to which I have no explanation.

I have a friend of mine who owns a chevy one ton car hauler that gets driven very little since he uses it for hauling his own projects which he uses penzoil (yes, I rib him about it every chance I get) exclusively. So far with ~90k on the original 350 he hasnt had any issues since he gets a good look inside the top end because he has to put valve cover gaskets on it every couple of years.

Anyways, Castrol is my choice while I'll stick with Mobile one syth for the stuff that gets abused.

[graycamaro]

ahhh yes the good old 350 chevy if it aint leakin there aint any oil in it.

[Lowend]

Just note about Castrol... they do not refine their own oil, they subcontract out to the lowest bidder and then add their own additive package (which is supposed to be quite good).
The problems with mixing natural and syn oil date back to the 1970's and have long since been addressed.

BTW - in my research (8 years in the performance industry) Amsoil is hands down the best stuff out there, followed by Redline. But frankly any synthetic will handle pretty much anything - within reason - you can throw at it

[graycamaro]

All oils have their place while there are some guys useing it Most of the guys that race dirt track stock cars around here use Penzoil or Valvoline and change there oil every
2-3 nights of racing and when the engines come apart after a season of racing to get freshened everything looks fine. Alot of the road race guys are useing synthetic and alot of street car guys. I think over time and miles synthetic probably holds up better but if you change the oil every 2-3 races it probably wouldn't make a difference.

I run Parts Plus labeled oil in my truck which is the same as valvoline and change my oil whenever i get a chance every 3-10000. Oooops well its stock and has a 120000 on the odometer and I have had it since 90000. All the miles since ive owned it have been pretty hard on it Im sure.
James

[Tom Welch]

For a good and proven oil additive how about BG's MOA. It increases the additive package that is used in motor oils so that the anti-oxidants and friction modifiers are present in much higher quantities. Just about every dealership in the U.S. uses it.

[katman]

Unless you are a chemist and know every ingredient in BOTH the oil and the additive you're asking for trouble! Just one thing different between the two and they can cancel each other out or double up and cause problems.
The most common reason for synthetic to start leaking out of an engine, that didn't leak before, is sludge build-up around gaskets and seals. When the sludge builds up, it starts acting like a gasket and seal and allows the real gaskets and seals to shrink and dry up and eventually burn and crack. Synthetic oil is VERY high in detergents and cleans out the sludge. No sludge, oil can get to the gaskets and seals, that have shrunk up, and flow right on by. Not the synthetics fault, it's the dino oils fault.
While at the GM training center I got to talk to some of the engineers there and they told me to NEVER use the quick engine flushes. Those are the ones that say put it in and let it idle for 15 min and DON'T DRIVE THE CAR WHILE IT'S IN. That's because they are the kerosene type of cleaners. They thin your oil way too much and provide no lubrication. The engineers said the best thing to do is put one quart of ATF in the crankcase and drive the car for a week and then change the oil and filter to whatever you want. ATF is a VERY HIGH QUALITY HIGH DETERGENT 5 weight oil with seal conditioners. Yes it will thin your oil a little but it still lubricates while it's in there, cleans the smallest nooks and crannies, and conditions the seals so that the synthetic won't flow on out, if your gaskets and seals aren't too far gone.
One other thing, the filter is probably one of the most important things to change! When you start changing oils or cleaning the engine you are going to have junk being washed down to the pan and picked up by the pump and filtered, well, by the filter. If your filter gets plugged, the by-pass opens and 100% raw grunge is going to be pumped through your engine!
Sorry, I'm passionate about this! Can you tell!

[Ralph LoGrasso]

Hey guys,

I figured I'd give you all an update. Yesterday I dropped the old oil, and it didn't look bad at all. I topped the engine off with 5 quarts of regular mobil 10w30, and 1 quart of synthetic (mobil) ATF. I let it idle for about 20 minutes, then dropped the oil and the filter, swappped to 6 quarts of mobil 1 and a K&N long oil filter. Everything looked good. I was going to drop the pan and see what was in there, but after talking to Vince, I decided to just flush it with some ATF, and hold off on dropping the pan. I'll probably be doing a h/c swap towards the end of the summer, so we'll see what it looks like when I take the intake off. The car only has 32k, and it's been babied so I'm not worried about sludge build ups.