12 bolt or 9"

[gcallahan]

Ok so im in the planing stages of my build. 69 camaro 454 munci 4 speed. ive decided to get the DSE upper and lower ca's and the coil over kit for the front. Kore 3 c5/c6 front disk kit. DSE subframe connectors and mini tubs. But the rear? I have a 12 bolt 411 posi with 12" disks now. Do I go with ease of instillatons and get the Allston G-BAR? Or build a 9" and install the DSE Quadratrack rear? I have built hundreds of custom axles for my previous employer, so its not a skill set question, more of a "what would you do?"
Thanks G:hmm:

[JRouche]

Ok so im in the planing stages of my build. 69 camaro 454 munci 4 speed. ive decided to get the DSE upper and lower ca's and the coil over kit for the front. Kore 3 c5/c6 front disk kit. DSE subframe connectors and mini tubs. But the rear? I have a 12 bolt 411 posi with 12" disks now. Do I go with ease of instillatons and get the Allston G-BAR? Or build a 9" and install the DSE Quadratrack rear? I have built hundreds of custom axles for my previous employer, so its not a skill set question, more of a "what would you do?"
Thanks G:hmm:

Ok, not knowing either of those rear end suspensions I went to the webs sites for the makers.

The DSE was first. I didnt see a quadratrack there? I see a quadralink. Is that the one or is the quadratrack a newer system they just dont have up on their site yet?

So then I went to Chassisworks site and looked up the G-bar rear suspension for your car. Odd, they dont show it either. LOL And for the G-bar suspensions I did see they used a fab 9 housing (ford nine inch).

Im obviously missing something that you saw. If you could post some links to the two products you are considering that would help. I just cant seem to find the two products you are looking for from the manufactures web sites. And I really did some looking. JR

Oh, but I did see pics of both. Odd, I just cant seem to find the alston part on their web site.

Alston G-bar

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/alston-1.jpg


DSE quadralink (not the quadratrack).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/quadralink-1.jpg

[gcallahan]

Yeah quadralink. Thats what I get for thinking I know what I am talking about. I had to get the G-BAR installation guide from Alston for the 69 Camaro. The lowers and coil overs mount basicly the same as the picture above. The uppers mount on the axle the same but extend toward the out side of the car and mount on a bracket that welds to the frame rail. The install looks to be fairly easy. Sorry for the confusion.

[TheJDMan]

I have been told that both are good systems. The DSE requires some fabrication to mount the upper control arms in the floor pan. Personally, I like the clean install of the Aslton G-bar/G-link system. Since you already have a 12 bolt I would go that route. Call Frank at Prodigy he can answer all your questions.

[piratebaseball]

From what I've been told by Frank, the 12 bolt uses less power than a 9". That's good enough reason for me to stay with the 12 bolt.

[ProdigyCustoms]

The G Bar, G Link, G Billet can all be ordered to use your 12 bolt. If your not mini tubing it will use you original leaf spring perches on the rear. If you are mini tubing you would cut off your leaf spring perches and order optional weld on brackets for you 12 bolt. You also would order offset pivot balls to move the lower bars inboard slightly to clear big tires.

Also, if someone wants to use a 12 bolt and does not have one already Prodigy Customs can set you up with a G Series ready bolt in 12 bolt with all the brackets jig welded as well as the Fab 9.

As for which to use, 12 bolt or 9", it is a fact a 12 bolt absorbs less power then a 9". Most of it is related to the location of the pinion and it trying to climb the ring gear on a 9". Me, I like keeping my car all GM if I can unless a situation dictates a 9" like the 3 link in our Project Unfair.

Either way there is no mistake with either suspension or rear you are considering.

You can spec out and order the G Link here, and lots of notes on what you will need

http://www.protouringsuperstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CAGLink6769FBody

[icemanrd19]

Any discounts when ordering the full package? I want the dse 4 link with bolt in ready to go 12 bolt. If you have to just PM me.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We do jig welded Quadralink bolt in ready rears in 9" and 12 bolt.

[gcallahan]

Thanks for the info everybody. Im gona stick with the 12 bolt and just weld on the DSE stuff.

[ProdigyCustoms]

If you have fabrication skills as you say you do, it is a no brainer to keep your 12 but, cut and weld it. Most will have to take into consideration that original 12 bolts for Camaros have a significant value to guys restoring original cars. If the rear is a desirable date and code, I have seen 69 BU coded 3.73 12 bolts bring $2500 to $3500 to a guy restoring a Z28 or 375HP SS car. Even 3.31 open 12 bolts will bring $800 to $1200. So if someone has to hire the fabrication work to the original rear done, most times the person can sell their stock 12 bolt to someone doing a restoration and just order a new rear already bracketed and welded to length. The cost difference between a new ready to go rear and what the original 12 bolt can sell for is often equal or less expensive.

In your case because you can do your own work, as long as it is not coded BU or BE, you should cut it. But IF it is a BE, you just destroyed a $5000 COPO rear but your chances of that are about 500 in 280,000!

[gcallahan]

Good to know, so how do I find the code on my 12 bolt?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Front of the passenger side axle tube about halfway between the center section and end. Will read something like BU0513 E Stamped in the tune in 3/16 numerals

[gcallahan]

Thanks ill check it out next time im under my car.

[H2Ogbodies]

I'd also vote to keep your stock 12-bolt. Less weight means less torque required to turn it. If you opt for synthetic diff. fluid, you wont have any issues with it and since you have the skills to dial in pinion depth and backlash, it would be better suited for your needs than a 9". Because of extreme cornering/gripping, the ring gear location is more prone to breaking than your 12-bolt. Dirt guys break 'em on a regular basis-so substitute pavement for dirt and you can imagine what can happen.

[chicane67]

H20... I have no idea what you are talking about. But I'd love to hear some facts to back up what you state...

[JRouche]

Because of extreme cornering/gripping, the ring gear location is more prone to breaking than your 12-bolt. Dirt guys break 'em on a regular basis-so substitute pavement for dirt and you can imagine what can happen.

REALLY!! Breaking ring gears on a regular basis? Hell!! Im removing my Reider racing (mostly dirt prepped rear ends) 9" before it breaks. Thanks for the great info. Always nice to get the straight skinny from folks who know first hand. Weak assed 9", I KNEW there was alot of hype with those weak rear ends. Im off to unbolt it right now!! Hope it fits in the trash barrel. Where is my monkey wrench!! JR

[nickcornilsen]

Dang, guess I was lucky running my ol' 9 inch on a pavement oval track all those years... even with those wimpy 28 spline axles I didn't have any breakage... I must not have been that fast.

Seriously though, 9 inches are TOUGH. The only real issue I ever had with them was that because the pinion is so low, when engine braking, there is alot of force on the pinion nut. one time, I did manage to strip that nut out and wrap the pinion around the ring gear. But, that was a pinion I pulled and re-assembled 7 or eight times with the same nut (bad idea right there.)

12 bolts do tend to loose about 1/2 a horse power less than a 9 inch.