Which spring setup is right for my g-body?

[devildog214]

Well ive been putting this off for a long time but its time to lower my g body, the springs are fairly worn out and bounce up and down with bumps at high speeds and have very little strength left in them especially when i load up the car with people. Ive been on the hunt for springs for a long time, ive already ruled out drop spindles, too much money for a car that will mainly see street use, i drive it every day. Ive looked at DSE, SPC, OPGI and of course your typical eibach set. Im probably forgetting a few brands ive looked at amost a year ago. Im looking for a 2 inch drop, and im looking for a good price, but if a high end product like DSE is worth the extra money im all ears. OPGI offers a good price and a 2" drop, i know they make good OEM parts but what about performance suspension? SPC i found looking at SC&C, you guys praise SC&C so i trust everything they sell, but its only a 1" drop. I would much prefer a 2" drop but if you guys think it isnt feasable without drop spindles let me know. Oh and im running fairly new kyb gr-2 shocks if that matters.

[T-CHRGD]

Well ive been putting this off for a long time but its time to lower my g body, the springs are fairly worn out and bounce up and down with bumps at high speeds and have very little strength left in them especially when i load up the car with people. Ive been on the hunt for springs for a long time, ive already ruled out drop spindles, too much money for a car that will mainly see street use, i drive it every day. Ive looked at DSE, SPC, OPGI and of course your typical eibach set. Im probably forgetting a few brands ive looked at amost a year ago. Im looking for a 2 inch drop, and im looking for a good price, but if a high end product like DSE is worth the extra money im all ears. OPGI offers a good price and a 2" drop, i know they make good OEM parts but what about performance suspension? SPC i found looking at SC&C, you guys praise SC&C so i trust everything they sell, but its only a 1" drop. I would much prefer a 2" drop but if you guys think it isnt feasable without drop spindles let me know. Oh and im running fairly new kyb gr-2 shocks if that matters.

If it fits into your budget, you may want to look at the SC&C Stage-2 Plus kit to go along with the SPC springs. The tall lower ball joints (along with the tall upper ball joint and adjustable upper A-arms) would give you an additional 1/2-3/4" drop, in addition to correcting many of the goemetry problems inherent with the stock G body suspension. Mark will be back in the office on Friday - give him a call. He will be glad to answer any questions you may have.

[devildog214]

Eventually i would like to do upper and lower a-arms, but i dont think i explained just how tight of a budget im on. Im 18, go to college and push shopping carts for a living:nopity: Ill keep the SPC springs in mind as well as the A-Arms.

[aeroocoupe]

If it fits into your budget, you may want to look at the SC&C Stage-2 Plus kit to go along with the SPC springs. The tall lower ball joints (along with the tall upper ball joint and adjustable upper A-arms) would give you an additional 1/2-3/4" drop, in addition to correcting many of the goemetry problems inherent with the stock G body suspension. Mark will be back in the office on Friday - give him a call. He will be glad to answer any questions you may have.


Start saving your money. It is worth it, The car will corner like a mouse with sneakers. Their prices great and they will help u. Look at the prices of their competitors. Good luck

[507caddy]

I decided to go with this line (SC&C) because you really do not need to buy everything all at once. Start with the springs and upgrade as your budget allows. I do not think there would be a problem with that other than the potential need for multiple alignments.

[aeroocoupe]

Here is site with a lot of info http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

[devildog214]

yeah believe me i put a post on there too. Maybe i will go with the spc springs or some other 1inch spring that will give my car a bit of a rake.

[aeroocoupe]

I have the Hotchkis TVS system with the tubular upper control arms. kyb shocks and running 245/45/17 ft and 275/40/17 rear. The car sits real nice, and I was driving it into NYC for 3years with no problems at all. I had 4 men in the carpool, and it was the only car I had that they would fit in. It was fun smoking the tires up. I bought SC&C pro touring rear sway bar but I have not installed it yet. Good luck.

[devildog214]

yeah well i already have UMI RUCAS and RLCAS and front and rear swaybars, kyb gr2's, maybe ill look into hotchkis springs or SPC. 2 inches all around may be too much of a drop and possibly not look "right"

[montessaj]

Devildog,

I have the 2" OPG rear springs and I couldn't be happier with them, but I have 2" Beltech drop spindles and Hotchkis 1" springs on the front. It gives my car a 3/2 drop so it has a little rake in it. For a street car I'd just go with 2" OPGs all the way around! I do love the SC&C stuff and I'm not trying to steer you away from them, but I feel like the OPG springs would better fit your needs.

Andy

[xxxturbo6]

I have the full DSE suspension on my G-Body and love how it handles! I seen where you mentioned that you were looking for a 2" drop spring, Well DSE has just that where most others only offer 1"... $405 and your lowered 2"...

[devildog214]

sorry to bring my old post back from the dead, but i still cant decide between DSE and SPC. I know DSE looks great, but would it be too much of a drop? Also any pictures of g bodies with SPC springs would be great too. Cant seem to find any on google.

[xxxturbo6]

sorry to bring my old post back from the dead, but i still cant decide between DSE and SPC. I know DSE looks great, but would it be too much of a drop? Also any pictures of g bodies with SPC springs would be great too. Cant seem to find any on google.Keep in mind if you have 20+ year old factory springs in the car right now they are sagged pretty good by now. If you went with the DSE 2" drop spring you may only get an additional 1" drop out of them due to your old springs being sagged. Company's rate their drop on springs from the factory OEM specs of the vehicle.

I have seen people buy a 1" drop spring and it literally raises their car rather than lower it and that is due directly to the sag in the factory springs over the 20+ years.

The best way to dial-in and achieve the ride height that your looking for, Adjustable Coil Overs would be the Best way to go!


SW.

[Marcus SC&C]

It`s not the least bit important whos sticker is on the springs you buy. 99% of all of the quality retailers buy their springs from one of 4 major US spring manufacturers. Springs that you see that are much less expensive than the top brands are usually made from mystery metal "offshore" in a hut or a cave or something. :) Note that all the retailers who actually know something about suspension sell springs that are VERY SIMILAR for these cars. This is a clue, those are the rates and ride heights that work best! The G body rear suspension doesn`t lend itself well to being lowered. It doesn`t have a lot of bump travel to start with and the rear RC is ultra high and gets higher as you lower it. Lowering it more than 1" in the rear inverts the rear moment arm between the CG and RC. That`s bad juju and basically turns a serious performance car into a poseur car. It also sets the car up to run out of travel in bump under hard cornering if you hit a bump or a squirrel or something. Bottoming the car when cornering at or near the limit will cause the car to snap oversteer. When this occurs the driver is basically along for the ride as the car leaves the road at speed...backwards. That`s almost always bad, so we try to avoid it by retaining enough travel and keeping the RC below the CG as it should be. Up front we have a little latitude in workable ride heights so we can adjust rake and stance there pretty much to taste. Typical 2" drop spindles do nothing for us but make the tie rod ends much closer to the wheels which can limit wheel/tire options. As advertised they do lower the CG, BUT they do not improve handling or reduce body roll because the RC drops the same 2" and the moment arm between them remains unchanged. As I always say..."if you do what you`ve always done you`ll get what you always got".
Springs alone won`t do much to improve handling on a G body. The performance G bodys came with half decent rates to begin with and the springs aren`t the weakest link in the chain anyway the stock geometry is. If you don`t seriously move suspension pickup points to correct the backward camber curves, uber low and unstable RC and massive bumpsteer you`ll still have a lot of body roll and by todays standards a pretty sloppy driving car. This is easily seen in pics of cars so modified. If you don`t fix the problems...they`ll still be there.
For that matter swapping arms to get a better alignment doesn`t do much either because the alignments weren`t as far off as older musclecars were.
To sum it up, fix the weakest links first. Replace or repair anything broken, a worn out idler arm, a loose tie rod end or broken factory front end geometry (repair with a Stage 2-Plus, AFX package etc.). Once the car is fixed THEN tune it with the appropriate springs, any premium spring set with a sensible rate and drop for you application will work fine, Eibach,Hotchkis, SPC,DSE etc. Select parts to set the baseline ride height at this time then fine tune if required by trimming or shimming the front springs. Which is usually not necessary. ARound 2" of drop front and 1" rear generally works very well and looks good too.
Bolt in coil over conversions are usually a poor choice for these cars because the envelope to mount them in is so small it requires a lot of engineering compromises. They always have MUCH less usable adjustment than you think they`ll have and when they set up just a little wrong they *break*. I`ve worked with them for many years, all different brands and types, run them on my own cars and they`re usually more trouble than they`re worth on this platform. On some other cars they work great and I recomend them but this isn`t one of them with the exception of a few actual road racing applications.
Get the best shocks you can possibly afford. They`re the "brains" of the suspension. Good hard parts with lousy shocks = lousy ride and performance. For this platform this means Bilstein of better. You`ll thank me later. Mark SC&C

[ac84ss]

It`s not the least bit important whos sticker is on the springs you buy. 99% of all of the quality retailers buy their springs from one of 4 major US spring manufacturers. Springs that you see that are much less expensive than the top brands are usually made from mystery metal "offshore" in a hut or a cave or something. :) Note that all the retailers who actually know something about suspension sell springs that are VERY SIMILAR for these cars. This is a clue, those are the rates and ride heights that work best! The G body rear suspension doesn`t lend itself well to being lowered. It doesn`t have a lot of bump travel to start with and the rear RC is ultra high and gets higher as you lower it. Lowering it more than 1" in the rear inverts the rear moment arm between the CG and RC. That`s bad juju and basically turns a serious performance car into a poseur car. It also sets the car up to run out of travel in bump under hard cornering if you hit a bump or a squirrel or something. Bottoming the car when cornering at or near the limit will cause the car to snap oversteer. When this occurs the driver is basically along for the ride as the car leaves the road at speed...backwards. That`s almost always bad, so we try to avoid it by retaining enough travel and keeping the RC below the CG as it should be. Up front we have a little latitude in workable ride heights so we can adjust rake and stance there pretty much to taste. Typical 2" drop spindles do nothing for us but make the tie rod ends much closer to the wheels which can limit wheel/tire options. As advertised they do lower the CG, BUT they do not improve handling or reduce body roll because the RC drops the same 2" and the moment arm between them remains unchanged. As I always say..."if you do what you`ve always done you`ll get what you always got".
Springs alone won`t do much to improve handling on a G body. The performance G bodys came with half decent rates to begin with and the springs aren`t the weakest link in the chain anyway the stock geometry is. If you don`t seriously move suspension pickup points to correct the backward camber curves, uber low and unstable RC and massive bumpsteer you`ll still have a lot of body roll and by todays standards a pretty sloppy driving car. This is easily seen in pics of cars so modified. If you don`t fix the problems...they`ll still be there.
For that matter swapping arms to get a better alignment doesn`t do much either because the alignments weren`t as far off as older musclecars were.
To sum it up, fix the weakest links first. Replace or repair anything broken, a worn out idler arm, a loose tie rod end or broken factory front end geometry (repair with a Stage 2-Plus, AFX package etc.). Once the car is fixed THEN tune it with the appropriate springs, any premium spring set with a sensible rate and drop for you application will work fine, Eibach,Hotchkis, SPC,DSE etc. Select parts to set the baseline ride height at this time then fine tune if required by trimming or shimming the front springs. Which is usually not necessary. ARound 2" of drop front and 1" rear generally works very well and looks good too.
Bolt in coil over conversions are usually a poor choice for these cars because the envelope to mount them in is so small it requires a lot of engineering compromises. They always have MUCH less usable adjustment than you think they`ll have and when they set up just a little wrong they *break*. I`ve worked with them for many years, all different brands and types, run them on my own cars and they`re usually more trouble than they`re worth on this platform. On some other cars they work great and I recomend them but this isn`t one of them with the exception of a few actual road racing applications.
Get the best shocks you can possibly afford. They`re the "brains" of the suspension. Good hard parts with lousy shocks = lousy ride and performance. For this platform this means Bilstein of better. You`ll thank me later. Mark SC&C

Hit the nail on the friggin head man. Thank you for this