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View Full Version : Sequence shots of Mark's 2011 GT Mustang getting sideways



TCI Engineering
02-28-2011, 12:09 PM
*exiting the autocross hairpin

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/IMG_5367-1.jpg

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-J

TCI Engineering
02-28-2011, 12:10 PM
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*exiting the left hander before the front straight on the road course



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-J

67zo6Camaro
02-28-2011, 12:18 PM
Wow that was close on both accounts....That cone was spared at the autox....and Mark's undies are still clean. I saw the lock to lock action on the big coarse. Your camera was at the right place at the right time. Nice work.

Brett

powertvmark
02-28-2011, 04:54 PM
YEAAAAAAAAAH Bustin' it! That 5-6 years of drifting comes in handy when you get into a corner too hot.

The 2011 Mustang uses an electronic rack N pinion and it isn't fluid driven. Normally the wheel will rotate back when you let it go after being sideways, on the new setup it doesn't do that and you have to rotate it back manually. It's a little bit to get use to.

Steve1968LS2
02-28-2011, 05:11 PM
Crazy kid!!

We're shooting his 69 Camaro today at El Toro..

powertvmark
02-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Here is a quick export of my run on the big track later in the day -- I will put something better together later.
http://www.floridaracing.org/2011GT/ELTORO.MOV

Here is a on car camera video of the slide job on the big track --- I kept catching the gentleman ahead of me and I needed a way to create that gap again :)

http://www.floridaracing.org/2011GT/drifto.MOV

79-TA
02-28-2011, 07:32 PM
YEAAAAAAAAAH Bustin' it! That 5-6 years of drifting comes in handy when you get into a corner too hot.

The 2011 Mustang uses an electronic rack N pinion and it isn't fluid driven. Normally the wheel will rotate back when you let it go after being sideways, on the new setup it doesn't do that and you have to rotate it back manually. It's a little bit to get use to.


You still have positive caster, so I'll interpret this as the steering wheel doesn't return quite as quickly.

Matt@BOS
02-28-2011, 08:05 PM
You still have positive caster, so I'll interpret this as the steering wheel doesn't return quite as quickly.

Yeah, that is really weird! I've heard good things about Ford's new EPAS racks, but that would bug me. Are you saying if you were to take your hands off the wheel you'd just go in circles?

Matt

Matt@BOS
02-28-2011, 08:09 PM
Crazy kid!!

We're shooting his 69 Camaro today at El Toro..

Wrong car/person Steve. You're not the first to make that mistake though. There were a bunch of times when people approached me with the pink hat and I had to point them to the other Mustang.

Oh and think the shoot went well today. Robert McGaffin did an awesome job, as he always does.

Matt

Bryce
03-01-2011, 05:46 AM
I picked up a lot of Marks cones. He was making work out there on the auotcross.

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 06:10 AM
Sorry about the cones. My first session I didn't hit a single cone then after lunch my tire pressures were all jacked (TOO high for some reason) and the first two runs of my afternoon session were horrible - it began to understeer bad. I fixed the tire pressure after that second afternoon run and the next three runs were just fine, in the 40.1-40.6 range.

I use to autocross frequently in the early 2000s but this was my first event in about 6 years. A little rusty you could say !

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 06:17 AM
Wrong car/person Steve. You're not the first to make that mistake though. There were a bunch of times when people approached me with the pink hat and I had to point them to the other Mustang.

Oh and think the shoot went well today. Robert McGaffin did an awesome job, as he always does.

Matt

Yea people kept mixing us up. I guess your last afternoon run of the day you spun on the autocross and someone was trying to give me a pink hat again, and I had to explain that I hadn't hit anything...recently atleast.

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 06:22 AM
Yeah, that is really weird! I've heard good things about Ford's new EPAS racks, but that would bug me. Are you saying if you were to take your hands off the wheel you'd just go in circles?

Matt

Don't get me wrong, I like it for everyday driving but yes if you get it sideways the steering wheel doesn't return to you, or if it does, it's too slow to notice.

Actually a fair amount of people that run their cars hard, including BOSS 302R/S owners, have reported this same response

Matt@BOS
03-01-2011, 10:15 AM
Don't get me wrong, I like it for everyday driving but yes if you get it sideways the steering wheel doesn't return to you, or if it does, it's too slow to notice.

Actually a fair amount of people that run their cars hard, including BOSS 302R/S owners, have reported this same response

Interesting... maybe I won't try to use it with the 2011 GT500 drivetrain I picked up for my '65. I had a broken rack that acted the same way once. It was really annoying. Does the steering wheel move as you slide sideways?

Oh, and I wondering why I didn't get awarded the pink hat/ears for my last autocross run... I was a bit disappointed to be honest.

Matt

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 10:28 AM
A friend of mine in Florida is finishing up a prototype front drive system that will allow for a traditional rack -- I recommend going that route.

Keep me updated on the the install, I would love to do something on it for StangTV.com

SLO_Z28
03-01-2011, 03:00 PM
Why would you let go of the steering wheel, ever? This confuses me. I know that the rack in our Police Interceptors has a variable assist rate, with low/high assist functions built into it, but its all very fluid qand natural feeling. The PI has 5 degrees caster stock, you can tune in another 3 with no mods, the thats good. I know that when the variable assist fails people have a tendency to crash, and that ford has a updated pump with a higher volume than the OE unit, that pump + a rack runs about a grand, and ive had to install too many.

Ill keep my parallelogram steering linkage with a good box to retain a sporty feel and be dead on reliable :p

6'9"Witha69
03-01-2011, 03:55 PM
Why would you let go of the steering wheel, ever?

Its is common to release the wheel after correcting a slide to allow the car to find center naturally. And it really isn't a "look Ma, no hands" kind of let go, it is a "let it slide through a very relaxed grip". Sometimes you can over correct or try to find center too quickly and start the process of sliding all over again, just in the other direction. Relaxing off of the wheel allows it (the Caster, mainly) to do it for you.

SLO_Z28
03-01-2011, 04:12 PM
Its is common to release the wheel after correcting a slide to allow the car to find center naturally. And it really isn't a "look Ma, no hands" kind of let go, it is a "let it slide through a very relaxed grip". Sometimes you can over correct or try to find center too quickly and start the process of sliding all over again, just in the other direction. Relaxing off of the wheel allows it (the Caster, mainly) to do it for you.

Wow. Never let go of the steering wheel.

6'9"Witha69
03-01-2011, 04:55 PM
Funny, they teach the opposite in race school, at least when I went 15 yrs ago. You can sometimes see the exaggerated release (really looks like a "look ma") on F1 drivers when they spin. Fight it, let go, grab it back.

Matt@BOS
03-01-2011, 04:56 PM
If you think about it, when the back end of the car steps out, the front wheels generally stay pointed in the direction that you were originally going. If you think about it, in a drift pretty much everything is moving except the front wheels, giving you the perception that the steering wheel is moving, when it is really the other way around. At least that is how it feels when I'm behind the wheel. I imagine having a rack that doesn't do this would be problematic because it wouldn't be providing feedback as to when the rear starts sliding.

BTW Mark, I'd be happy to work with you on install coverage, etc. The car is actually going to be a ground up build with some new and different ideas going into it, so you're welcome to cover as much of the build as you like over at Stangtv.com

Matt

SLO_Z28
03-01-2011, 05:14 PM
Funny, they teach the opposite in race school, at least when I went 15 yrs ago. You can sometimes see the exaggerated release (really looks like a "look ma") on F1 drivers when they spin. Fight it, let go, grab it back.

Yeah when you completely spin out. You want one hand as a position reference for countersteer so you know where to properly position the wheel when it starts to correct. Otherwise you do what happens in the picture. I played the weight transfer game too, just where the slick part was, not on the straight.

Heres a good video I found on Hobaugh's YT channel earlier illustrating countersteer. Actually his hand positioning is pretty ideal, I wish I was that good :
TlXipUUbUE8

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 06:56 PM
Its is common to release the wheel after correcting a slide to allow the car to find center naturally. And it really isn't a "look Ma, no hands" kind of let go, it is a "let it slide through a very relaxed grip". Sometimes you can over correct or try to find center too quickly and start the process of sliding all over again, just in the other direction. Relaxing off of the wheel allows it (the Caster, mainly) to do it for you.

Yes exactly

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 07:06 PM
Why would you let go of the steering wheel, ever? This confuses me. I know that the rack in our Police Interceptors has a variable assist rate, with low/high assist functions built into it, but its all very fluid qand natural feeling. The PI has 5 degrees caster stock, you can tune in another 3 with no mods, the thats good. I know that when the variable assist fails people have a tendency to crash, and that ford has a updated pump with a higher volume than the OE unit, that pump + a rack runs about a grand, and ive had to install too many.

Ill keep my parallelogram steering linkage with a good box to retain a sporty feel and be dead on reliable :p

Here are some videos of me drifting my 350z a few years ago at Willow Springs. The first one shows in car and how I let go of the wheel and catch it in different spots. Sometimes if I wanted to the car to rotate fast, I would throw the wheel while it was coming back.

Inside Shot
http://www.floridaracing.org/z/septWSIR1.mov

Outside to give perspective of the course -- at 28 seconds shows you what I was doing on the big course pictures on the first post
http://www.floridaracing.org/z/driftdec2.mov

powertvmark
03-01-2011, 07:08 PM
BTW Mark, I'd be happy to work with you on install coverage, etc. The car is actually going to be a ground up build with some new and different ideas going into it, so you're welcome to cover as much of the build as you like over at Stangtv.com

Matt

Sounds good - send me progress reports when you start the build to [email protected]

Sarge73Z28
03-01-2011, 07:38 PM
That looks like all kinds of fun! Wish I had the money to really dive into that kind of stuff. Make do with what I have though. At least my 3rd gen is a good handling platform. Now I just need more power for it.

6'9"Witha69
03-01-2011, 07:43 PM
Yeah when you completely spin out. You want one hand as a position reference for countersteer so you know where to properly position the wheel when it starts to correct. Otherwise you do what happens in the picture. I played the weight transfer game too, just where the slick part was, not on the straight.

Heres a good video I found on Hobaugh's YT channel earlier illustrating countersteer. Actually his hand positioning is pretty ideal, I wish I was that good :
TlXipUUbUE8
Right about 1:06 - 1:07, you can see him let it slide back through his hands.