Perfecting Bumpsteer - Shimmed Balljoint/Tierod Taper?

[monteboy84]

I'm sure I'll get some negative feedback on this idea, but the more I think about it, the more sense it makes, especially if done properly and safely. If it's been done I apologize, but I couldn't find anything about it on Google or searching here.

Let's say you need to change the pin height of a ball joint or tie rod pin by .050", or some other number not available by just replacing the pin. Often with tie rods you're stuck with what you've got.

Well, running the model in CAD, a .009" shim between the taper of the pin and spindle (10 degree taper in this instance) would yield a height change of .100", or a .004" shim would give you a .050" change in pin height. Obviously you'd want to somehow lock these in place, but other than that, do you see an issue? My gut says that the tension of torquing the nut would be enough to hold it in place, but if not some small tabs could be added. You wouldn't want to change the height too much this way, since it moves the acting cross-section of the pin to a smaller part of the taper, but I think it could be a handy trick for fine-tuning bumpsteer on factory draglink steering systems.

-matt

[Bryce]

why not just use a rod end and a something like this?
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustable-Tie-Rod-Adapter-Stud-to-Heim,3333.html

The other option would be to drill out the spindle to a larger diameter and remove the taper. Then just use a bolt. Make sure the hole diameter is exactly the same as the bolt diameter.

[monteboy84]

I've considered that, but I really don't like heim joints for street use. They'll last quite a while, but I like the greasable sealed boot design of a stock tie rod. Basically was just throwing this out there as an idea for helping to perfect geometry with stock-appearing components.

-matt

[Bryce]

Good reason, if I understand you correctly then I think your idea will work. Another option is they have greasable heim joints. and you can get "seals it' boots to cover the ball.

[68sixspeed]

heim end outers- 15 years and mine are still going fine... I was hesitant at first but after seeing the abuse they take in racing conditions and first hand use I've gotten comfortable with it. I have seen people add a large washer on the nut for safety so the rod end can't drop and safety wire the nut also.

[David Pozzi]

A tapered shim is a pretty good idea, but it would affect the cotter pin location you'd have to drill a new hole higher up on the pin.

[MrQuick]

front steer car? put a gauge on it and do some experimenting .

[monteboy84]

A tapered shim is a pretty good idea, but it would affect the cotter pin location you'd have to drill a new hole higher up on the pin.

That's a good point, shimming .100" pin height would definitely cover up the stock pin hole.

-matt

[monteboy84]

front steer car? put a gauge on it and do some experimenting .

Yup, front steer. I've got to wait for some decent weather to get my car to the shop, but when I do I'll still a gauge on it and see what I can do. What I do know is that stock it's horrendous. I spoke with Marcus Savitske as well, sounds like his kit will remedy all this for my particular car.

-matt

[JRouche]

Yup, front steer. I've got to wait for some decent weather to get my car to the shop, but when I do I'll still a gauge on it and see what I can do. What I do know is that stock it's horrendous. I spoke with Marcus Savitske as well, sounds like his kit will remedy all this for my particular car.

-matt

I have a mustang II front and its bump steer was way out. I installed some baer tracker tie rod ends and it made a massive improvement. Although, I had to use the entire shim stack. And I know you dont want to go with spherical bearings. But they are really nice bearings and I bought some seals for them to keep the road grime out. The seals really do seal very well too, very tight and I think they are made from polyurethane so they will last for many years. JR

[monteboy84]

Thanks JRouche! Always good to hear from someone who's actually using this stuff. After giving it some thought, I'm going to switch out both the Inner and Outer TRE's with heims and Seal-it's. Just a friendly recommendation for anyone with heims, these link tubes are the best I've used on our race cars, they are FAR easier to precisely adjust than a jam-nut setup. These are the ones I'm ordering for my car once I establish what length I will need.

Tie Rod Sleeve (5/8" Fine)
http://www.colemanracing.com/Tie-Rod-EZ-Just-P3758.aspx

Link Tube (3/4" Fine)
http://www.colemanracing.com/Trailing-Arm-Ez-Just-P3753.aspx

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/19219-1.jpg

Thanks for the help guys!!

-matt

[Kenova]

....... I bought some seals for them to keep the road grime out. The seals really do seal very well too, very tight and I think they are made from polyurethane so they will last for many years. JR
Do you have a link for the seals? I haven't had much luck finding them. I must be looking under the wrong rock lol.

edit: never mind, I found my way https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?77563-dust-boots-for-aftermarket-bump-steer-kits


Ken

[JRouche]

Do you have a link for the seals? I haven't had much luck finding them. I must be looking under the wrong rock lol.Ken

I know right! I have turned rock and rocks over looking for something just to realize it was right under my nose. If it was a rattle snake it would have hit me fast.

And for the seals they are not cheap it seems, for what you get. Unfortunately its not one of those items that are copied and so the price wont come down soon. As simple as they are you would think there would be an off shore knock off here already, but there isn't. And to be ho nest I would suspect the off shore knock off and examine it. The real seals-it seals are pretty good. Once you torque the nut down on the quality washer encapsulated with poly you can see the quality. The lip of the poly is VERY tight against the rod end and it doesnt look like it will let anything pass from the outside.

But time will tell. See how the "rubber" holds up. If its polyurethane then it should hold up, it shouldnt dry out or become "set". Set meaning it holds a form after sitting in one position for a long period of time like some rubber will. I dont want it to take a set. I dont think it will. JR

Oh yeah. I had to get 25+ of them for all the spherical ends I have, and even then some are not covered. Between the four link, sway bars, front control arms and the watts link I came up short. But it was a matter of money at that point.

I can only cover what I can. If I had endless funds I would have a better setup. We can only do what we can afford to do right? Hell!!

If it means wrapping plastic wrap over the rod ends and it worked Im all for it!!! There is NO such thing as an endless supply of money for US home garage builders right? We do what we can.

I dont have a shop where the big money is fitting the bill. Hell, I dont even have a shop, I have my small house garage and my one car, and not much of an income. Id do without the seals if it meant doing something or nothing. Im used to going without, just the way it is. JR