insurance on car value over 100,000

[greg5436]

who do you guys use for insurance when the value goes over 100k. i have state farm ins. on everything and all my other cars,but they do not go over 100k. thanks greg

[Matt@BOS]

Hagerty, Grundy, Heacock Classic, etc. are all good. The most important thing is to have an agreed value policy, NOT a stated value policy. If you're shopping around make sure that the potential insurer is familiar with the type/style of car you're building or have completed. Also, if you have all of your invoices for everything you might want to send them over. As I found, in the event of an accident, an agreed value policy doesn't let you escape the hassle of haggling over repair costs, so it helps to have all of your invoices in your file with them.

Matt

[phillym5]

Call up the ladies at MK Insurance. They are awesome. I highly recommend them.
http://www.mkinsuranceagency.com/

[wmhjr]

Here's some advice - take it for what it's worth. So much of this is opinion, but even opinions can be helpful (sometimes) :)

I think once you pass the $45-50K value range, there are some very important things that you should do. In no particular order, they are:

1) Get every single receipt for anything associated with the vehicle, and carefully organize them into "sections". Like "Engine", "Suspension", "Interior", etc. Scan them to PDF and organize the PDFs into folders identical to the "sections" you have the physical receipts organized by.
2) Take your time doing this, but then enter all the receipts into an Excel spreadsheet. There are lots of ways to organize here. I'm a little retentive, so I listed vendor, catetory, unit price, quantity, extended price, shipping, method of payment, date, tax..... You get it. I'm a little carried away. But when you get done with this you'll know every single penny you've invested - and you'll be able to prove it easily and legally.
3) Get a qualified appraisal by somebody who is licensed to do so.
4) Organize as many digital pics as you can.

Then, when you're shopping for high value insurance, you can hand a carrier a digital package up front which proves the value of the car immediately. In the event of theft (worst case situation) when you combine this with an agreed value policy you've protected yourself as much as humanly possible. At the same time, you've really documented the car. With the advantages of Windows Vista or 7, and office, you can now also immediately find an image of any receipt for any part of the car, or any detail you might need in a maintenance, damage or replacement situation. When you're dealing with kind of unique and expensive parts, it's really nice to be able to call a vendor/manufacturer and say "Hi, I ordered part number xxx on whatever date for x amount of money, under invoice number xxxx. It's amazing how much it speeds up discussions in the event of a problem. I would also think vendors would appreciate customers having such detailed info when they call with an issue.

[Vegas69]

Not to be a ***** but...do you reall think your car would bring over 100k on the resale market?

[Morgan]

I would use me. Ok, ok - but seriously. I specialize in insuring collector and track vehicles and all the other things that go along with them (homes, boats, planes, excess liability and such). I can do your car on a standalone basis and find you the right company (I represent all the best ones) or if your car is part of a collection you might qualify for my exclusive program where I can provide up to 150% of Agreed Value, no deductible, depreciated value and include coverage while the car is being transported. Give me a shout if you would like some numbers and to go over your options. I insure lots of cars that climb way over $100k.

[greg5436]

thanks for all the help and advice on insurance. i appreciate all your help on how to keep records and what type of policy to get. todd i am not trying to sell the car just insure it.why is there always one person that want to contribute to a post that has nothing to do with whats being ask. greg

[Steve1968LS2]

If you have State Farm for your classic high-value classic car then you are just in a holding pattern to be screwed.. they don't offer agreed value (no matter what they tell you) and only offer stated value.. It won't matter how many records you have since the value will just be what they determine it to be. Just sayin' -- the reason we give this info when you didn't ask for it is so that others are educated when they read your post :)

Article I wrote on insurance:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/hotnews/0709phr_car_insurance_tips/index.html

I have Heacock Classis on Penny for $110,000.. which I should raise. It costs me around $1200 a year.

[Vegas69]

Greg, I'm not familiar with the car. Not trying to beat you down.

Steve, I changed over to Heacock and have mine at 95k and it was only around $700. Wonder why your policy is so high. More mileage or the century mark?

[Flash68]

Steve, I changed over to Heacock and have mine at 95k and it was only around $700. Wonder why your policy is so high. More mileage or the century mark?

I was wondering if that sounded high as well. I think I piad around $600 annually for the $85k covg on my previous Camaro.

Maybe Rupp has extra coverage for all kinds of off road racing conditions? Do you have endorsements like that Todd?

[Vegas69]

No, Heacock doesn't offer it as far as I know.

[greg5436]

If you have State Farm for your classic high-value classic car then you are just in a holding pattern to be screwed.. they don't offer agreed value (no matter what they tell you) and only offer stated value.. It won't matter how many records you have since the value will just be what they determine it to be. Just sayin' -- the reason we give this info when you didn't ask for it is so that others are educated when they read your post :)

Article I wrote on insurance:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/hotnews/0709phr_car_insurance_tips/index.html

I have Heacock Classis on Penny for $110,000.. which I should raise. It costs me around $1200 a year.

thanks for the info steve,i am going to read your article tonight. someone else told me to switch all my insurance on my cars from state farm. greg

[Rick K]

I have heard that there are several stipulations also for insurance such as needing indoor secure parking,alarm systems in garage,even a fire supression system on cars over 80 000. Is this true?

[DarkBuddha]

Hey guys... just an aside, but what do you recommend for insuring a "special interest" limited use car with a value under $10k? I got a quote from Heacock, but they required the car's value be over $15k.

[Morgan]

I have heard that there are several stipulations also for insurance such as needing indoor secure parking,alarm systems in garage,even a fire supression system on cars over 80 000. Is this true?

Rick - not necessarily. Every insurance company has their own rules which is why I represent a bunch of them. You always need to keep the car in some sort of a garage to qualify for collector auto coverage but it doesn't always have to be alarmed. If the collection is large or there are particularly valuable vehicles then we do require alarm systems but I've yet to require fire supression on a private collection (we do sometimes require it for my Collector Auto Dealer and Restoration Shop programs).

[Morgan]

Hey guys... just an aside, but what do you recommend for insuring a "special interest" limited use car with a value under $10k? I got a quote from Heacock, but they required the car's value be over $15k.

Wyatt,

Shoot me an email and I'll forward you my applications. Our minium value is $7,500 and looks like both your cars would qualify for a collector auto policy.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

<deleted>

[Ron.in.SoCal]

I was wondering if that sounded high as well. I think I piad around $600 annually for the $85k covg on my previous Camaro.

Maybe Rupp has extra coverage for all kinds of off road racing conditions? Do you have endorsements like that Todd?

Welcome to the insurance market in SoCali....on second thought, it could be his claim history?

[DarkBuddha]

Wyatt,

Shoot me an email and I'll forward you my applications. Our minium value is $7,500 and looks like both your cars would qualify for a collector auto policy.
Will do soon... tough part right now is that I'm using my XR (the under $10k car) as a daily driver, but I'm hoping to get it to the point of being more limited use.

[walker.kenny]

The Hartford does antique and classic car insurance; agreed value too. They are very good with claims, if you have your paperwork in place.

[Morgan]

Hate be negative here but be very carefull of the Hartford. Thought they are an excellent company their collector auto policy is not anywhere near as good as some of the staples (Hagerty, Chartis, Grundy, Amercian Collector, Heacock). Most relevant the previous comment by Kenny (sorry Kenny but make sure to read your policy closely) is that Hartford only offers Agreed Value in select states. In most states they write Stated Amount/Value which is no where near Agreed Value and should be avoided at all costs.

Taken from the Hartford's Collector Auto website that Kenny provided the link to:

Antique Auto Coverages
In most states, the amount of coverage provided for an Antique Auto is determined using "stated amount" - an amount that you (the policyholder) and The Hartford agree on as the maximum value for the vehicle. In the event of a loss, a claim adjuster will determine the current value of the Antique Auto, which cannot be more than the "stated amount" listed on the policy.

In some states, the Hartford is introducing Antique Auto coverage based on "agreed value." This is the amount of coverage that you and The Hartford agree on as the value for the Antique Auto, based on a recent, certified appraisal.

Please be careful with Stated Value with whatever insurance company you choose as Stated Amount/Value gives the insurance company the option of paying the the Stated Value OR Actual Cash Value (which is the same as a regular old auto policy). Guess which one they will choose.

[vintageracer]

If you have State Farm for your classic high-value classic car then you are just in a holding pattern to be screwed.. they don't offer agreed value (no matter what they tell you) and only offer stated value.. It won't matter how many records you have since the value will just be what they determine it to be. Just sayin' -- the reason we give this info when you didn't ask for it is so that others are educated when they read your post :)

Article I wrote on insurance:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/hotnews/0709phr_car_insurance_tips/index.html

I have Heacock Classis on Penny for $110,000.. which I should raise. It costs me around $1200 a year.

Steve,

You are telling ME and EVERYONE else that State Farm Insurance screwed me when they paid off to me the TOTAL STATED VALUE ON MY STATED VALUE STATE FARM COLLECTOR CAR POLICY PLUS SALES TAX FOR THAT AMOUNT on my Datsun 510 RACE CAR that was flooded and deemed a total loss in the Nashville Flood last May?

WOW! I want to be screwed again when I cash their check!

I got screwed even worse when I was able to buy my 510 racecar back from State Farm for 18% of the total payoff.

I want to be screwed again!

The car is running fantastic and ready to race!!!

[wmhjr]

Mike, I think what he is saying is that there is absolutely reason whatsoever to choose state farm over true agreed value collector specific insurance. It's been said before. You may have done quite well with your claim. If you flip a coin 100 times you may get heads 50 times. For you it came up heads. However, there is just as much a chance of that coin coming up tails when filing a stated value claim with state farm. I think everyone is very happy that your claim came out ok. Just like we're happy when somebody walks away from a bad accident.

Again, please show me a single advantage offered by stated value over agreed value. It does not exist other than perhaps bundling with your traditional insurance.

[Fesler built]

Grundy is the only way to go, they will insure on the spot with just pics up to $125K I think and then from there you will need a good appraisal to get more. We insure cars all the way up to $400K with them and have never had one issue and they pay on the spot for problems. They are very reasonably priced and you can’t go wrong with them. We have been using them for 7+ years with no issues.

[vintageracer]

Mike, I think what he is saying is that there is absolutely reason whatsoever to choose state farm over true agreed value collector specific insurance. It's been said before. You may have done quite well with your claim. If you flip a coin 100 times you may get heads 50 times. For you it came up heads. However, there is just as much a chance of that coin coming up tails when filing a stated value claim with state farm. I think everyone is very happy that your claim came out ok. Just like we're happy when somebody walks away from a bad accident.

Again, please show me a single advantage offered by stated value over agreed value. It does not exist other than perhaps bundling with your traditional insurance.

My post above has nothing to do with stating, showing or proving that with a State Farm Stated Value collector car policy there is any single advantage over Agreed Value insurance offered by the dedicated Collector Insurance vendors. On the surface and in reality there is not!

Steve's post AND the article he authored implies (benefit of the doubt here) that you are totally at the mercy of State Farm insurance AND that they will NOT pay the Stated Policy Value if there is a total loss.

That's is simply JUST NOT TRUE and rather irresponsible in "my" opinion to "imply" that as a fact!

[wmhjr]

Actually Mike, you're at least partially wrong. They "may" pay the stated value. They are NOT obligated to in any way. I know your opinion is a bit different, but that IS the fact. Further, you ARE legally and practically at the mercy of state farm. That is yet another fact. In summary, there is no advantage of a stated value and there are advantages to agreed value policies, one must question the logic and judgement of even remotely recommending a stated value policy ESPECIALLY in a car valued at over 100k as per the op.

[vintageracer]

Actually Mike, you're at least partially wrong. They "may" pay the stated value. They are NOT obligated to in any way. I know your opinion is a bit different, but that IS the fact. Further, you ARE legally and practically at the mercy of state farm. That is yet another fact. In summary, there is no advantage of a stated value and there are advantages to agreed value policies, one must question the logic and judgement of even remotely recommending a stated value policy ESPECIALLY in a car valued at over 100k as per the op.

I am not wrong. I did not say they would "ALWAYS" pay the Stated Value however they ARE obligated to payoff based upon the terms and conditions outlined in the policy the insuror and insured agreed to when the policy was purchased by the insured and accepted by the insuror. Steve's post and article "implies" that State Farm may NEVER pay the Stated Value on the policy. That's just not true! That is ALL I wanted the members here to know. A State Farm collector car policy "may" be exactly what some folks such as myself needed to have proper coverage based upon my insurance needs. The ONLY way you can find that out for sure it to READ THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS in every insurance policy you own or are considering purchasing.

Everything you have posted concerning the differences between a Stated Value and Agreed Value policy is true. I do not disagree with any of that information. I just disagree with Steve's post and article that "implies" that you would NOT get paid the Stated Value listed on a State Farm Insurance Collector Car policy. That's it. Nothing More, Nothing Less!

I have numerous other cars insured with Agreed Value collector car policies from the large collector insurors. I purchase collector car insurance AND ALL MY INSURANCE based upon READING THE POLICY and UNDERSTANDING THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS stated in those policies. If those terms and conditions do not meet my insurance wants and/or needs I do not buy the policy and continue shopping. I also shop my TOTAL insurance needs every year!

Hagarety, Grundy, Chubb, State Farm or you pick the insuror ALL offer policies with different terms and conditions. Not one of them is anywhere close to the same. In the case of the AGREED VALUE collector car insurors about the only thing that is the same in each of their terms and conditions in the fact that they are selling an AGREED VALUE insurance policy. After that all bets are off as the terms and conditions outlined in each insurors policy can be very different. No "one policy or one insuror" provides the policy terms and conditions I need for all the different cars I own based upon their different uses, type of car, configuration and therefore I have different insurors AND policies that will provide the "proper" coverage for my needs on each insurable asset.

It is probably safe to say the most if not ALL the board members reading this thread have NEVER read in its entirety the terms and conditions of ANY of the insurance policies they have purchased and IF they have probably do not understand what they just read. Most people just take the word of whatever their insurance agent tells them and that is a huge mistake!

If by prolonging this thread with our spirited discussion I can get just ONE member to read AND understand the Terms & Conditions outlined in their specific collector inisurance policy I have been successful. Most people buy their insurance based solely on price OR who their buddy has their car insured with. Bad Move! Having proper insurance on an asset and understanding the terms and conditions meet the needs of the insured is what is most important. Many of the responses in this thread just list from whom they buy their collector cars insurance and because "they" but their insurance from that carrier they MUST be the best. Maybe? Maybe Not?

All the insurance in the world is not worth a damn IF the insuror will not pay off as expected by the insured. The only way to INSURE (Pun Intended) that you will be paid as you expected is to read and understand the terms and conditions of the policy you purchase!

[wmhjr]

Mike, what you're missing is the fact that you are absolutely at the mercy of State Farm. I'm not suggesting that they will definitely NOT pay. I'm only suggesting that with them, they don't have to. With Agreed Value, they do. That's the part I said was wrong.

I totally agree with the comment about everybody should really read the details of their policy. I am curious. If you have collector insurance on other vehicles, why do you have State Farm for this particular one? Is there something about the use of the vehicle? I'm still trying to figure that out. Perhaps if you could elaborate on your reasons for selecting it people could better understand - and maybe there is something that we're missing.

[vintageracer]

Mike, what you're missing is the fact that you are absolutely at the mercy of State Farm.

I am not totally at the mercy of State Farm. I and State Farm are BOTH governed in this legal contract by the terms and conditions that we BOTH agreed to when I retained their coverage and they accepted my risk.

A number of my cars have uses that can be described as "different". As an example Hageraty and Grundy will not insure dedicated race cars. Heacock in the past has insured my race cars however their rates are nowhere near competitve anymore. The State Farm "Stated Value" policy was the best policy for my needs at the best price given the amount of "risk" I was personally willing to assume.

Given the the outcome of my loss "I" chose the proper policy for my needs based upon the terms and conditions. That happened to be State Farm in this case!

[wmhjr]

Mike - I understand the race car issue. I do disagree with the point of being at the mercy of them. Truly, to some extent you are as they are not legally obligated to pay the stated value, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about what "mercy" means :) In my mind, it means that both you and State Farm agreed in a legal contract that you're at their mercy and discretion. But again, if the dedicated race car thing is accurate, I can totally understand. It might help to provide some background on what the differences are so that others in that "different" category know what to expect. I would also consider that a dedicated race car isn't a "collector car" by normal definition. Not that it isn't a collector, or that it isn't very cool (obviously it is).

[vintageracer]

Actually a 1969 Datsun 510 with under 2.5 litre Trans Am race history back to 1971 really is a valuable collector car in the vintage racing and collector car world. In this case the regular Agreed Value collector insuror's do not understand, choose not to understand or really do care to underwrite the vintage race car part of the collector car market since they may not have the expertise to determine a real value of the asset. The original State Farm underwriter accepted the Stated Value I requested when the policy was issued as correct when they reviewed the pictures, history and information that I provided about my car.

To State Farm's credit they sent out a loss appraiser to review my claim and inspect my car who knew EXACTLY what he was looking at. After I gave him a brief overview of the car, the history, the log book records and more he begain to ask me specific questions that only an appraiser knowledgable about vintage race cars would ask. When I heard his questions I immediately knew I was in good hands and it was NOT Allstate!

Given the cost of repairs of just the engine, transmission and rearend in the car he immediately determined that the cost of repair would total the car and he stated so. He agreed that the Stated Value listed in the policy was proper and I should expect payment for the loss quickly and that was the case. I am sure that specific asset knowledge about vintage race cars by the original underwriter AND the loss appraiser made the difference in the quick and efficient way in which my claim was processed and completed.

Another example of "different" needs are my two (2) 2002 California Highway Patrol EVOC Camaro's both from the CHP Training Academy in Sacremento. All 8 of the 2002 CHP EVOC Camaro's were sold at auction by the CHP with Non-repairable titles although neither of my cars had ANY damage AND were low miles cars with 13K original miles on one Camaro and 17K original miles on the other Camaro. It is well known in the Police car collector world that these cars were sold with non-repairable titles so the value of the cars is really effected since the cars are so well known through Youtube videos and I now have legal titles that allow the cars to once again be registered for street use and enjoyment. They were both sold with non-repairable titles because all 8 EVOC Camaro's have full Chris Alston Cages and other mods completed by the CHP so the CHP did not want these cars on the street in California without regard to the fact both cars had NO damage and ran and drove properly. Everything down to cruise control and A/C worked perfectly in both cars. Both cars now have completely legal Kentucky "Rebuilt" titles as they went through the legal "rebuild" process in the State of Kentucky. I did not have to do anything mechanical or cosmetic to the cars since they needed no work. All I had to do was go through the proper paperwork process and have the cars inspected. These Camaro's presented an issue of the rebuilt title that several insurors did not want to deal with when I began my search to retain insurance coverage. Again, I asked the proper questions and read the terms and conditions of the policies and I know that these cars properly insured.

The Datsun 510 race car and the two 2002 CHP EVOC Camaro's are just two instances of different issues that can arise when it comes to shopping for collector car insurance. I could list a couple more but I am sure you get the picture.

[nvr2fst]

Edited- My bad, didnt bother to read that my comment has been addressed.


Not to be a ***** but...do you reall think your car would bring over 100k on the resale market?

Good point Todd, Not sure what most do. But I would and have insured only for agreed value. Whether it be cars, boats, etc. most specialty insurance companies try to get you to insure for market value. Agreed value may cost a bit more but if by chance all is lost at least your covered for every nickel and time you have into it. I hope! I never had to resort to that point yet.

Now if I can just insure my home for what it was worth 2-3 years ago. Id light a match and head out of town towards vegas. Wait... no different there either.

[nvr2fst]

Post #7
I take it the OP dont know TODD LOL, for what its worth Todds insight is usually helpful and I quess that a legite question he asked.

[camcojb]

I am not totally at the mercy of State Farm. I and State Farm are BOTH governed in this legal contract by the terms and conditions that we BOTH agreed to when I retained their coverage and they accepted my risk.

A number of my cars have uses that can be described as "different". As an example Hageraty and Grundy will not insure dedicated race cars. Heacock in the past has insured my race cars however their rates are nowhere near competitve anymore. The State Farm "Stated Value" policy was the best policy for my needs at the best price given the amount of "risk" I was personally willing to assume.

Given the the outcome of my loss "I" chose the proper policy for my needs based upon the terms and conditions. That happened to be State Farm in this case!
I think you ARE at the mercy of State Farm. I don't think you understand what "actual cash value" really means. All their collector car policies have that listed in the declarations, and they can determine that ACV is less than the value on the policy and pay accordingly. It has happened to several people, do some searching, start on Camaros.net as several members had this exact issue with a total loss with a State Farm policy.

You came out well, and if the car is at the lower end of the value spectrum it's probably worth taking a chance. But if you're talking a high dollar car, you're really giving them a lot of credit presuming that they'll pay full pop. If you have a 69 Camaro valued at $100K, do you really think they can't find several "comparable" 69's for a lot less than $100K? Yeah, you can always fight, hire a lawyer, go to court, but even if you win you don't really win.

A true agreed value policy is the only way to go if your classic is worth bigger money, or if you want a guarantee of the exact amount of payout in a total loss. Anything else is rolling the dice............ This is not a bash of State Farm in any way, been with them for 25 years for my business vehicles. But I would never use their collector car policy on a higher value collector car.

Jody

[vintageracer]

I think you ARE at the mercy of State Farm. I don't think you understand what "actual cash value" really means. All their collector car policies have that listed in the declarations, and they can determine that ACV is less than the value on the policy and pay accordingly.

State Farm may also have to pay MORE than the "Stated Value" of the policy IF the "Actual Cash Value" of the asset on the DATE OF LOSS is is determined to be GREATER than the "Stated Value" of the policy.

It works both ways here as there is NO language in their terms and conditions that LIMITS the upper end of the payoff of the "Actual Cash Value" of the asset on the date of loss to the "Stated Value" of the policy!

While certainily an unusual situation it is possible and has occured!

[camcojb]

State Farm may also have to pay MORE than the "Stated Value" of the policy IF the "Actual Cash Value" of the asset on the DATE OF LOSS is is determined to be GREATER than the "Stated Value" of the policy.

It works both ways here as there is NO language in their terms and conditions that LIMITS the upper end of the payoff of the "Actual Cash Value" of the asset on the date of loss to the "Stated Value" of the policy!

While certainily an unusual situation it is possible and has occured!
I've never seen that either, would be curious the wording in your policy. Every State Farm classic car policy I've seen says they pay UP TO the ACV or stated value. I've never seen one that wasn't worded that way. Not saying yours isn't, just saying every policy that's been posted is worded the way I just typed it.

Jody

[wmhjr]

I would love to see proof of where state farm paid higher than the stated value to the owner.